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RE: [BatteryHens] Re: Hello, everyone!

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  • cinbud@acadia.net
    Virgil, you are more than welcome to use my words for any purpose you think might help, and please use my name as well. Unfortunately, I don t know much more
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 19, 2005
      Virgil, you are more than welcome to use my words for any purpose you think
      might help, and please use my name as well. Unfortunately, I don't know
      much more than what I wrote, as I never actually worked in the plants.
      Everything I saw took place between 1971 and 1978, when I graduated HS and
      moved to NYC for some years - the plants in question were the Maplewood and
      Penobscot poultry processing plants in Belfast, Maine.

      Shortly after I left the area, the bottom dropped out of the poultry
      industry in midcoastal Maine, and both plants closed. Many people I
      graduated with took out large loans to buy poultry barns, which were then
      rendered useless. The barns were enormous, with very tiny windows that
      provided some ventilation but let in almost no light, so some tried to grow
      mushrooms in them once the poultry industry went south (literally, to where
      heating costs were lower), but basically they were worthless without 45,000
      chicks to stuff into them.

      I do remember as we were building up a small home flock of chickens (as
      pets and for eggs, founded by rescued birds who had fallen off trucks),
      acquiring a few dark-colored chicks. These would supposedly cause a
      stampede and mass suffocation in the overcrowded conditions of a poultry
      barn (full of yellow chicks), so they were routinely fed (alive, I believe)
      to pigs.

      I also remember years later being back in the area, going to a jobs
      services office looking for employment. As I waited, I sat beside an older
      woman with clawlike crippled hands. We got chatting, and she told me that
      she had worked for many years for one of the plants, and like many,
      repeated infections that she was forced to work through had destroyed her
      hands. She told me that a large group of plant workers had organized a
      lawsuit against the former plant owners for crippling them, but I don't
      know what came of it or how far it got.

      Interesting that as I think about it I do remember some things, just from
      living in the area... I remember visiting a friend at I think Penobscot,
      and her job was termed 'venter'. She was the first person to handle the
      bird after it was scalded, defeathered, and had its head slowly pulled off
      by the method I mentioned earlier. As I recall it, her job was to take
      every second bird (hanging by the feet, of course), stab a knife into its
      vent, pull out a loop of intestine and cut it loose one one side, leaving
      about 8 inches of gut dangling. I can't recall what the point of this was,
      but I do remember further up the line the people with dangling vacuums,
      sucking all the innards out of the opened cavities of the birds... right
      next to that ol' CONDEMNED bucket...

      I remember it seeming like a form of hell, and vowing I would never work
      there. I did nonetheless take a job as a 'clam-shucker' at one time, and
      lasted one interminable day. The clams, lightly scalded, squirmed when you
      opened them to rip them from their shells.
      :/
      Cindy
      PS: As you and Lily have pointed out, treating living things as 'product'
      seems to me the primary problem here (I have used the analogy of a car
      assembly plant before myself). If things are alive, and you treat them so,
      and take their life quickly with the full knowledge that you are taking a
      life, this seems very different to me from factory-farming-hell.

      I am much more comfortable eating local venison than beef - I know the deer
      lived a normal life, and then died suddenly. This is very different from
      eating an animal that was tortured from birth to premature, miserable
      death, and never allowed to really be alive, in my mind. I am in full
      respect for veganism, but I also would like to be able to eat meat (and
      eggs, and milk products, which I love) without knowing that I am
      contributing to systematic torture. I'll pay whatever they ask, if they can
      reassure me that the animals are treated like... well, like animals (as we
      humans are), rather than like 'product'.



      Original Message:
      -----------------
      From: Virgil cybergypsy1964@...
      Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:25:01 -0000
      To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [BatteryHens] Re: Hello, everyone!




      I would like to have your permission to use your personal story of
      what you saw and heard in Maine if you don't mind, in my groups and
      on the blog. Any more specifics that you may have on this will
      obviously be welcomed. One of my priorities that I have been working
      on is to show that the kinds of stories of my experiences and the
      kinds of things caught on video by PETA and COK, among others, are
      anything but the industry-promoted myth that these incidents are
      isolated and the work of "a few bad apples."

      That seems to be one of the main ways the public uses to hide behind
      in order to blind themselves to the truth that these problems are
      indeed widespread in an effort to justify their continued support of
      this industry by their continual buying and consuming the products of
      this unethical and inhumane industry. I firmly believe that once we
      can get enough people speaking out with personal firsthand accounts
      like mine that we will be able to disarm the industry of that
      important weapon against those of us trying to make changes.

      We do indeed have a major battle on our hands, or in their (Dan
      Murphy of meatingplace, in particular ,and yes I think I still have
      this article in the archives of my group, and would be happy to share
      it with you, though the archives are open to the public - for that
      matter, I have a wealth of archives I would be happy to help out with
      for anyone needing specific info on anything - that's what I do and
      am here for; spreading the TRUTH!) words "a war" against activists,
      whom they claim exaggerate the truth and publicize the few isolated
      cases where this kind of thing happens, rather than acknowledging
      that it is indeed the norm, as those of us informed enough to
      recognize that the lies they portray as the truth are anything but.
      We have the truth on our side, though, and it is making them quite
      nervous (I have proof of that, too!)

      I have noticed a changing trend as the evidence continues to mount,
      though. As they find it harder and harder to discount the hard
      evidence that people are starting to have thrown into their faces,
      they are resorting more and more to trying to discredit the source,
      such as me. There was an all-out vicious effort to discredit me when
      I came forward, thus changing the direction the coverage and
      discussion was going. Rather than talking about the horror stories I
      was blowing the whistle on, they decided to take another tactic -
      change the topic of discussion entirely to bring it around to a
      discussion about me, my character, and therefore, my credibility.
      Anything at all to get the spotlight off of them and their unethical
      and illegal practices and onto my personal life, when that had
      absolutely nothing to do with what I saw down at that plant. And,
      truthfully, they were largely effective with this technique, at least
      in the short term, until I was able to disprove their allegations
      with cold hard evidence to the contrary. The problem was that by the
      time I was able to produce the evidence that what they alleged about
      me was a mixture of all-out lies and a combination of twisted facts
      and all, most of the damage was done. The vast majority of people
      that had read their lies had moved on to other issues by the time I
      was finally able to prove them wrong. This had more than one
      advantage for them. It wasted my time defending myself instead of
      using that time to talking about and educating those about the
      problems down there and in the whole meat-packing industry itself,
      but also, but also had the advantage of having so many people
      everywhere believing their bunk that ultimately dismissed me as
      a "disgruntled former employee bent on revenge" that then moved on to
      other issues, that by the time I finally proved them wrong, the
      spotlight had moved on to other pressing issues and off of them. So
      that, by the time I was finally able to sort things out, most of
      those people believing the lies were not still around to hear that
      corrected version. So, these people still believe that I am full of
      it and still dismiss everything I have to say, convinced I am
      northing but a big ol' liar. Therefore they are much harder to reach
      and perhaps can never be reached, at least not by me since they
      refuse to listen to anything I have to say.

      So, you can see why it is so important to me to keep gathering more
      firsthnd accounts to gather together and present to the public to
      illustrate that it is indeed a widespread problem the companies and
      the industry itself perpetrates, and not isolated acts of "a few bad
      apples" that can be conveniently fired while business continues as
      usual. This will be the only way to hold the whole industry
      acountable and force the people with their heads in the sand to face
      what they are condoning and supporting every single time they buy ad
      consume their products. It's essential to get these stories, as many
      as possible, to accomplish that.

      So, I am in an all-out effort to get a lot of these stories docuented
      and gathered together (even if need be, some must be reported
      anonymously, for fear of reprisal). I think this can work, but it
      will take some time to accomplish. But, if you give your consent, I
      will add it to my growing list of corroborative accounts, making
      these details public in an effort to change things. If you agree to
      this, I can use the little that has already been posted here publcly,
      but if you can give more specifics, it would be greatly appreciated.
      You can contact me by email if you like, and if you want, I solemnly
      promise to keep your name out of it if necessry. I don't want to
      make anyone's life harder than it already is. And, as I have sated
      repeatedly on my site, I have a policy I stick by of NEVER publishing
      anything at all (especially names) sent in privvate emails to me
      without express consent of the person writing it. And, for
      everything I do have consent for, I also always let the person go
      over it to make sure that what will be posted is something they are
      careful with. Just let me know.

      Thanks for sharing and for caring.

      Virgil

      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      mail2web - Check your email from the web at
      http://mail2web.com/ .
    • Cindy
      Virgil, I also want to say, I think you are a very brave person whom history will smile upon - this is a battle that has to be fought, and only people who have
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 19, 2005
        Virgil, I also want to say, I think you are a very brave person whom
        history will smile upon - this is a battle that has to be fought,
        and only people who have seen the inside, and also who have the
        stomach for having as you say, their personal lives attacked, can
        really spearhead it. And there aren't too many of those. I know I
        could find people who worked in the plants in Belfast, but would
        they be willing to speak out? I should find out, if I can...

        Still I have seen my housechickens forum grow from just me, week
        after week, to the current 150 it boasts, and I believe that
        batteryhens will also grow. This is a topic people are going to care
        more and more about, and empathy is a topic we ALL need to think
        about, if we have any hope of surviving as a species.
        :/
        Cindy


        --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "Virgil" <cybergypsy1964@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I would like to have your permission to use your personal story of
        > what you saw and heard in Maine if you don't mind, in my groups
        and
        > on the blog. Any more specifics that you may have on this will
        > obviously be welcomed. One of my priorities that I have been
        working
        > on is to show that the kinds of stories of my experiences and the
        > kinds of things caught on video by PETA and COK, among others, are
        > anything but the industry-promoted myth that these incidents are
        > isolated and the work of "a few bad apples."
        >
        > That seems to be one of the main ways the public uses to hide
        behind
        > in order to blind themselves to the truth that these problems are
        > indeed widespread in an effort to justify their continued support
        of
        > this industry by their continual buying and consuming the products
        of
        > this unethical and inhumane industry. I firmly believe that once
        we
        > can get enough people speaking out with personal firsthand
        accounts
        > like mine that we will be able to disarm the industry of that
        > important weapon against those of us trying to make changes.
        >
        > We do indeed have a major battle on our hands, or in their (Dan
        > Murphy of meatingplace, in particular ,and yes I think I still
        have
        > this article in the archives of my group, and would be happy to
        share
        > it with you, though the archives are open to the public - for that
        > matter, I have a wealth of archives I would be happy to help out
        with
        > for anyone needing specific info on anything - that's what I do
        and
        > am here for; spreading the TRUTH!) words "a war" against
        activists,
        > whom they claim exaggerate the truth and publicize the few
        isolated
        > cases where this kind of thing happens, rather than acknowledging
        > that it is indeed the norm, as those of us informed enough to
        > recognize that the lies they portray as the truth are anything
        but.
        > We have the truth on our side, though, and it is making them quite
        > nervous (I have proof of that, too!)
        >
        > I have noticed a changing trend as the evidence continues to
        mount,
        > though. As they find it harder and harder to discount the hard
        > evidence that people are starting to have thrown into their faces,
        > they are resorting more and more to trying to discredit the
        source,
        > such as me. There was an all-out vicious effort to discredit me
        when
        > I came forward, thus changing the direction the coverage and
        > discussion was going. Rather than talking about the horror
        stories I
        > was blowing the whistle on, they decided to take another tactic -
        > change the topic of discussion entirely to bring it around to a
        > discussion about me, my character, and therefore, my credibility.
        > Anything at all to get the spotlight off of them and their
        unethical
        > and illegal practices and onto my personal life, when that had
        > absolutely nothing to do with what I saw down at that plant. And,
        > truthfully, they were largely effective with this technique, at
        least
        > in the short term, until I was able to disprove their allegations
        > with cold hard evidence to the contrary. The problem was that by
        the
        > time I was able to produce the evidence that what they alleged
        about
        > me was a mixture of all-out lies and a combination of twisted
        facts
        > and all, most of the damage was done. The vast majority of people
        > that had read their lies had moved on to other issues by the time
        I
        > was finally able to prove them wrong. This had more than one
        > advantage for them. It wasted my time defending myself instead of
        > using that time to talking about and educating those about the
        > problems down there and in the whole meat-packing industry itself,
        > but also, but also had the advantage of having so many people
        > everywhere believing their bunk that ultimately dismissed me as
        > a "disgruntled former employee bent on revenge" that then moved on
        to
        > other issues, that by the time I finally proved them wrong, the
        > spotlight had moved on to other pressing issues and off of them.
        So
        > that, by the time I was finally able to sort things out, most of
        > those people believing the lies were not still around to hear that
        > corrected version. So, these people still believe that I am full
        of
        > it and still dismiss everything I have to say, convinced I am
        > northing but a big ol' liar. Therefore they are much harder to
        reach
        > and perhaps can never be reached, at least not by me since they
        > refuse to listen to anything I have to say.
        >
        > So, you can see why it is so important to me to keep gathering
        more
        > firsthnd accounts to gather together and present to the public to
        > illustrate that it is indeed a widespread problem the companies
        and
        > the industry itself perpetrates, and not isolated acts of "a few
        bad
        > apples" that can be conveniently fired while business continues as
        > usual. This will be the only way to hold the whole industry
        > acountable and force the people with their heads in the sand to
        face
        > what they are condoning and supporting every single time they buy
        ad
        > consume their products. It's essential to get these stories, as
        many
        > as possible, to accomplish that.
        >
        > So, I am in an all-out effort to get a lot of these stories
        docuented
        > and gathered together (even if need be, some must be reported
        > anonymously, for fear of reprisal). I think this can work, but it
        > will take some time to accomplish. But, if you give your consent,
        I
        > will add it to my growing list of corroborative accounts, making
        > these details public in an effort to change things. If you agree
        to
        > this, I can use the little that has already been posted here
        publcly,
        > but if you can give more specifics, it would be greatly
        appreciated.
        > You can contact me by email if you like, and if you want, I
        solemnly
        > promise to keep your name out of it if necessry. I don't want to
        > make anyone's life harder than it already is. And, as I have
        sated
        > repeatedly on my site, I have a policy I stick by of NEVER
        publishing
        > anything at all (especially names) sent in privvate emails to me
        > without express consent of the person writing it. And, for
        > everything I do have consent for, I also always let the person go
        > over it to make sure that what will be posted is something they
        are
        > careful with. Just let me know.
        >
        > Thanks for sharing and for caring.
        >
        > Virgil
        >
        > --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "cinbud@a..." <cinbud@a...>
        wrote:
        > > Hi, Virgil! Okay, I'm home. You might have gotten a post I sent
        you
        > via
        > > your website a couple days ago - I'm the one who posted the pics
        of
        > that
        > > poor brutalized pullet, which I found via a notice sent out by
        > United
        > > Poultry Concerns.
        > >
        > > Anyhow, it just so happens that the page with her awful pics is
        the
        > very
        > > one that has chicken recipes, courtesy of Google (ever
        sensitive).
        > > http://shw.fotopages.com/521919.html
        > >
        > > In case others aren't getting what I get, this is the lineup:
        > >
        > > Ads by Goooooogle
        > > Free $50 Fast Food Card
        > > Subway, Wendy's, KFC, Burger King Guaranteed 100% Free - Act Now!
        > > www.InternetOpinionGroup.com
        > >
        > > Bbq Chicken Recipes
        > > Get Free Barbecue Recipes. Simple & Easy To Follow! Choose From
        > 1,000's
        > > www.RecipeRewards.com
        > >
        > > Eat Out For Less
        > > Restaurant Coupons Galore Save Big Time Plus Enter To Win $50,000
        > > www.eversave.com
        > >
        > > Grilled Chicken Recipe
        > > Find Delicious Recipes & Cooking Tips Online - Visit Now!
        > > www.SuperTarget.com
        > >
        > > Nice, eh?
        > >
        > > Anyhow, glad to have you in the group!! I got my first taste of
        the
        > poultry
        > > industry when I moved to rural Maine in the early 1970s, to a
        town
        > where
        > > poultry was the primary industry. Later I had friends who worked
        in
        > the
        > > plants (I never did, but would go in briefly to speak to
        friends,
        > and so at
        > > least SAW the environment, which was people standing on wet,
        bloody
        > > concrete, suffering repeated hand injuries that later became
        > infected and
        > > eventually ruined their hands, while mostly dead chickens,
        straight
        > from
        > > scalding and de-feathering, had their heads slowly PULLED off by
        a
        > fork as
        > > the line passed, and where there was a 50 gallon bucket
        stenciled
        > with
        > > drippy letters 'CONDEMNED', where the chicken parts too
        cancerous or
        > > otherwise hideous to consume were thrown).
        > >
        > > But in the early days all I knew about it was the trucks
        hurtling
        > by,
        > > spewing feathers, and the gossip (true, it turns out) that in
        > winter the
        > > unprotected chickens in the outside cages froze and their bodies
        > insulated
        > > the inner ones, and the fact that periodically we would see a
        white
        > chicken
        > > running through the underbrush, or lying in the road. Our small
        > flock was
        > > begun when my brother and I began catching and bringing home the
        > > unfortunate survivors, and one of my earliest was Chickadee, a
        > little
        > > pullet nearly frozen to death, who lived, sans one eye and all
        her
        > toes,
        > > but who became a loving pet.
        > >
        > > My father, who had worked as a commercial artist in NYC all his
        > adult life
        > > before moving to Maine, tried to find work gathering the
        chickens
        > from the
        > > barns, but lasted maybe two weeks. The practices he described
        > suggest
        > > underpaid and ignorant workers taking their frustrations out on
        the
        > birds.
        > > :/
        > > Cindy
        > >
        > >
        > > Original Message:
        > > -----------------
        > > From: Virgil cybergypsy1964@y...
        > > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:55:09 -0000
        > > To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [BatteryHens] Hello, everyone!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > After one of your members joining my Activists Against Factory
        > > Farming group, I decided to some and see this group for myself
        > after
        > > she told me about its existence. I see that I have already been
        > > discussed, so I guess I don't need much of an introduction.
        > >
        > > I would like to clarify one thing, though. I do NOT eat meat.
        I
        > do
        > > not consume dairy, and certainly do not eat battery chicken
        eggs.
        > > And I am not sure what you are talking about when you say I have
        a
        > > recipe for grilled chicken. Where? I certainly don't eat
        > chicken!
        > > Are you sure it is a recipe for real chicken and not one for one
        of
        > > the meat substitutes? I don't recall posting either kind, but I
        > > would love to understand where that remark came from. If there
        is
        > in
        > > fact a recipe somewhere for chicken that is associated with me
        in
        > > some way or another, I would like to know so that I can remove
        it!
        > I
        > > started having a serious aversion to chicken years ago after
        going
        > to
        > > work in that hellhole of a plant. If you read what I have
        written,
        > > then I am sure you understand why. And, after I went public
        with
        > > what happened during my years at Tyson, I began to find out that
        my
        > > experience were anything but unique, and they weren't even
        unique
        > to
        > > the poultry industry. So, I quit supporting that by refusing to
        > buy
        > > or consumer one more bite of their "products." (I use the scare
        > > quotes because that was Tyson's way of referring to chickens,
        > either
        > > pre-processed product or post-processed product - NEVER
        chickens.
        > It
        > > was yet another way to desensitize us workers to their suffering
        by
        > > reducing a living, feeling bird to nothing more than "product.")
        > >
        > > I also notice that there has been quite a bit of notice given to
        > one
        > > of the rescued chickens that fell off the back of one of the
        trucks
        > > that was so severely injured that we had to take her to have her
        > > euthanized. Man, that was horrible! Even for me, and I have
        seen
        > a
        > > lot. Laura just cried and cried that day. I hope we never see
        > > another tragedy like that again. Of course, I am realistic
        enough
        > to
        > > think that it is all too possible, given where we live and how
        many
        > > chicken houses surround us, not to mention how badly Tyson
        > maintains
        > > everything. But, on a happier note, I am happy to report that
        just
        > a
        > > couple of days ago we were given yet another chance to pick a
        > couple
        > > of chickens off the side of the road, and these are in good
        enough
        > > shape that we can help them. They are doing fine in our big
        > > isolation cage, where we quarantine rescues and sick birds from
        the
        > > rest of the chickens to make sure nobody gets anybody else
        sick.
        > > They are eating just fine and don't seem to have been hurt badly
        > from
        > > their fall, I'm delighted to say. I will be putting pics of
        them
        > up
        > > on my photo page in the next day or so as soon as I can borrow
        the
        > > camera to do so.
        > >
        > > I'm glad to find this group dedicated to battery hens - probably
        > the
        > > most abused animals on the face of the earth. I haven't yet had
        > time
        > > to go through your archives or anything, except for the latest
        ones
        > > written about me, but it looks like there are a lot of caring
        > people
        > > here. It's good to know that so many people care about
        chickens.
        > > For many years I really and truly thought no one did. Many
        people
        > > have proved me wrong. And I am glad.
        > >
        > > Virgil
        > > http://cyberactivist.blogspot.com/
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/activistsagainstfactoryfarming/
        > > http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/AgainstFactoryFarming
        > >
        > > Animals suffer as much as we do...
        > > It is our duty to make the whole world recognize it.
        > > - DR. ALBERT SCHWEITZER
        > >
        > > "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
        > > goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that
        whoever
        > is
        > > cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
        > > -A. Schopenhauer
        > >
        > > "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
        > > goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that
        whoever
        > is
        > > cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
        > > -A. Schopenhauer
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
        ---
        > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
        > > http://mail2web.com/ .
      • Cindy
        Brooks (pop. 900 or so) is actually the town I lived in, tho everyone commuted to Belfast. http://www.ibiblio.org/extimacy/interview/alicia/1.html
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 19, 2005
          Brooks (pop. 900 or so) is actually the town I lived in, tho
          everyone commuted to Belfast.

          http://www.ibiblio.org/extimacy/interview/alicia/1.html
          http://www.ibiblio.org/extimacy/interview/alicia/2.html

          etc. - you can't just go to 'next page'
        • Marlene Lenker
          ... after ... I guess that would be me. ... couple ... from ... up ... Virgil, are these chickens Faith and Hope, the ones that died the other day? If
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 21, 2005
            --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "Virgil" <cybergypsy1964@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > After one of your members joining my Activists Against Factory
            > Farming group, I decided to some and see this group for myself
            after
            > she told me about its existence.

            I guess that would be me. <G>

            >But, on a happier note, I am happy to report that just a
            > couple of days ago we were given yet another chance to pick a
            couple
            > of chickens off the side of the road, and these are in good enough
            > shape that we can help them. They are doing fine in our big
            > isolation cage, where we quarantine rescues and sick birds from the
            > rest of the chickens to make sure nobody gets anybody else sick.
            > They are eating just fine and don't seem to have been hurt badly
            from
            > their fall, I'm delighted to say. I will be putting pics of them
            up
            > on my photo page in the next day or so as soon as I can borrow the
            > camera to do so.

            Virgil, are these chickens Faith and Hope, the ones that died the
            other day? If so, what happened that they died? I inadvertantly
            rescued some Cornish Xs a couple of weeks ago. Out of 27, I lost
            seven; five due to the way they were handled and crammed into the
            cages prior to me getting them: one died of suffication, four died
            from massive bruising and/or internal injuries in the first week. I
            lost two because even tho they are separated from the rest of my
            chickens, the free rangers can get in there and have exposed them to
            illness, even tho I had them on Auromycin as a preventative. But
            other then leg problems, they are happy and healthy, getting to dust
            bath and be outside where they can hunt for goodies in the dirt. I
            have some solace in knowing that except for the one that sufficated,
            the ones that died did have at least one day of being outside in the
            fresh air and sunshine.


            > I'm glad to find this group dedicated to battery hens - probably
            the
            > most abused animals on the face of the earth.

            I agree. At least the Tyson meat chicken's suffering ends at 9
            weeks, whereas the battery hens can last as long as 18 months.

            > It's good to know that so many people care about chickens.
            > For many years I really and truly thought no one did. Many people
            > have proved me wrong. And I am glad.

            And I think I can speak for this group and say the same about you:
            seeing and experiencing what you did, and choosing not to turn a
            blind eye to the chicken's plight. We are glad you are here, too. :)

            Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane
          • Marlene Lenker
            Yuppers. Sad but true. Whatever happened to one s integrity? Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane ... Grandma Moses
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 21, 2005
              Yuppers. Sad but true.

              Whatever happened to one's integrity?

              Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane


              --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "cinbud@a..." <cinbud@a...> wrote:
              > Lily, too right. This is the crux of the problem.
              > :/
              > Cindy
              >
              > Original Message:
              > -----------------
              > From: M.L.P. Branga lily1013@g...
              > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:14:52 -0500
              > To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [BatteryHens] Hello, everyone!
              >
              > Nothing is as important as the
              > bottom line to these businesses. It's a very sad thing.
              >
              > Lily
              >
              >
              > --
              > "If I didn't start painting, I would have raised chickens." -
              Grandma Moses
              >
              > Othala Acres -Troy, NH
              > www.OthalaAcres.com
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
              > http://mail2web.com/ .
            • Marlene Lenker
              I second that. But Cindy, don t sell yourself short either. I am sooo glad you started Battery Hens. And Virgil, if you get the chance, you REALLY have to
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 21, 2005
                I second that. But Cindy, don't sell yourself short either. I am
                sooo glad you started Battery Hens. And Virgil, if you get the
                chance, you REALLY have to check out housechickens. I've told Cindy
                a number of times, they are one of my all-time favorite groups. In
                fact, I think just about all our members so far have come from
                housechickens.

                Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane

                --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "Cindy" <cinbud@a...> wrote:
                >
                > Virgil, I also want to say, I think you are a very brave person
                whom
                > history will smile upon - this is a battle that has to be fought,
                > and only people who have seen the inside, and also who have the
                > stomach for having as you say, their personal lives attacked, can
                > really spearhead it. And there aren't too many of those. I know I
                > could find people who worked in the plants in Belfast, but would
                > they be willing to speak out? I should find out, if I can...
                >
                > Still I have seen my housechickens forum grow from just me, week
                > after week, to the current 150 it boasts, and I believe that
                > batteryhens will also grow. This is a topic people are going to
                care
                > more and more about, and empathy is a topic we ALL need to think
                > about, if we have any hope of surviving as a species.
                > :/
                > Cindy
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