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RE: [BatteryHens] Hello, everyone!

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  • cinbud@acadia.net
    Hi, Virgil! Okay, I m home. You might have gotten a post I sent you via your website a couple days ago - I m the one who posted the pics of that poor
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 17, 2005
      Hi, Virgil! Okay, I'm home. You might have gotten a post I sent you via
      your website a couple days ago - I'm the one who posted the pics of that
      poor brutalized pullet, which I found via a notice sent out by United
      Poultry Concerns.

      Anyhow, it just so happens that the page with her awful pics is the very
      one that has chicken recipes, courtesy of Google (ever sensitive).
      http://shw.fotopages.com/521919.html

      In case others aren't getting what I get, this is the lineup:

      Ads by Goooooogle
      Free $50 Fast Food Card
      Subway, Wendy's, KFC, Burger King Guaranteed 100% Free - Act Now!
      www.InternetOpinionGroup.com

      Bbq Chicken Recipes
      Get Free Barbecue Recipes. Simple & Easy To Follow! Choose From 1,000's
      www.RecipeRewards.com

      Eat Out For Less
      Restaurant Coupons Galore Save Big Time Plus Enter To Win $50,000
      www.eversave.com

      Grilled Chicken Recipe
      Find Delicious Recipes & Cooking Tips Online - Visit Now!
      www.SuperTarget.com

      Nice, eh?

      Anyhow, glad to have you in the group!! I got my first taste of the poultry
      industry when I moved to rural Maine in the early 1970s, to a town where
      poultry was the primary industry. Later I had friends who worked in the
      plants (I never did, but would go in briefly to speak to friends, and so at
      least SAW the environment, which was people standing on wet, bloody
      concrete, suffering repeated hand injuries that later became infected and
      eventually ruined their hands, while mostly dead chickens, straight from
      scalding and de-feathering, had their heads slowly PULLED off by a fork as
      the line passed, and where there was a 50 gallon bucket stenciled with
      drippy letters 'CONDEMNED', where the chicken parts too cancerous or
      otherwise hideous to consume were thrown).

      But in the early days all I knew about it was the trucks hurtling by,
      spewing feathers, and the gossip (true, it turns out) that in winter the
      unprotected chickens in the outside cages froze and their bodies insulated
      the inner ones, and the fact that periodically we would see a white chicken
      running through the underbrush, or lying in the road. Our small flock was
      begun when my brother and I began catching and bringing home the
      unfortunate survivors, and one of my earliest was Chickadee, a little
      pullet nearly frozen to death, who lived, sans one eye and all her toes,
      but who became a loving pet.

      My father, who had worked as a commercial artist in NYC all his adult life
      before moving to Maine, tried to find work gathering the chickens from the
      barns, but lasted maybe two weeks. The practices he described suggest
      underpaid and ignorant workers taking their frustrations out on the birds.
      :/
      Cindy


      Original Message:
      -----------------
      From: Virgil cybergypsy1964@...
      Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:55:09 -0000
      To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [BatteryHens] Hello, everyone!




      After one of your members joining my Activists Against Factory
      Farming group, I decided to some and see this group for myself after
      she told me about its existence. I see that I have already been
      discussed, so I guess I don't need much of an introduction.

      I would like to clarify one thing, though. I do NOT eat meat. I do
      not consume dairy, and certainly do not eat battery chicken eggs.
      And I am not sure what you are talking about when you say I have a
      recipe for grilled chicken. Where? I certainly don't eat chicken!
      Are you sure it is a recipe for real chicken and not one for one of
      the meat substitutes? I don't recall posting either kind, but I
      would love to understand where that remark came from. If there is in
      fact a recipe somewhere for chicken that is associated with me in
      some way or another, I would like to know so that I can remove it! I
      started having a serious aversion to chicken years ago after going to
      work in that hellhole of a plant. If you read what I have written,
      then I am sure you understand why. And, after I went public with
      what happened during my years at Tyson, I began to find out that my
      experience were anything but unique, and they weren't even unique to
      the poultry industry. So, I quit supporting that by refusing to buy
      or consumer one more bite of their "products." (I use the scare
      quotes because that was Tyson's way of referring to chickens, either
      pre-processed product or post-processed product - NEVER chickens. It
      was yet another way to desensitize us workers to their suffering by
      reducing a living, feeling bird to nothing more than "product.")

      I also notice that there has been quite a bit of notice given to one
      of the rescued chickens that fell off the back of one of the trucks
      that was so severely injured that we had to take her to have her
      euthanized. Man, that was horrible! Even for me, and I have seen a
      lot. Laura just cried and cried that day. I hope we never see
      another tragedy like that again. Of course, I am realistic enough to
      think that it is all too possible, given where we live and how many
      chicken houses surround us, not to mention how badly Tyson maintains
      everything. But, on a happier note, I am happy to report that just a
      couple of days ago we were given yet another chance to pick a couple
      of chickens off the side of the road, and these are in good enough
      shape that we can help them. They are doing fine in our big
      isolation cage, where we quarantine rescues and sick birds from the
      rest of the chickens to make sure nobody gets anybody else sick.
      They are eating just fine and don't seem to have been hurt badly from
      their fall, I'm delighted to say. I will be putting pics of them up
      on my photo page in the next day or so as soon as I can borrow the
      camera to do so.

      I'm glad to find this group dedicated to battery hens - probably the
      most abused animals on the face of the earth. I haven't yet had time
      to go through your archives or anything, except for the latest ones
      written about me, but it looks like there are a lot of caring people
      here. It's good to know that so many people care about chickens.
      For many years I really and truly thought no one did. Many people
      have proved me wrong. And I am glad.

      Virgil
      http://cyberactivist.blogspot.com/
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/activistsagainstfactoryfarming/
      http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/AgainstFactoryFarming

      Animals suffer as much as we do...
      It is our duty to make the whole world recognize it.
      - DR. ALBERT SCHWEITZER

      "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
      goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that whoever is
      cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
      -A. Schopenhauer

      "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
      goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that whoever is
      cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
      -A. Schopenhauer







      Yahoo! Groups Links








      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      mail2web - Check your email from the web at
      http://mail2web.com/ .
    • Virgil
      I would like to have your permission to use your personal story of what you saw and heard in Maine if you don t mind, in my groups and on the blog. Any more
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 19, 2005
        I would like to have your permission to use your personal story of
        what you saw and heard in Maine if you don't mind, in my groups and
        on the blog. Any more specifics that you may have on this will
        obviously be welcomed. One of my priorities that I have been working
        on is to show that the kinds of stories of my experiences and the
        kinds of things caught on video by PETA and COK, among others, are
        anything but the industry-promoted myth that these incidents are
        isolated and the work of "a few bad apples."

        That seems to be one of the main ways the public uses to hide behind
        in order to blind themselves to the truth that these problems are
        indeed widespread in an effort to justify their continued support of
        this industry by their continual buying and consuming the products of
        this unethical and inhumane industry. I firmly believe that once we
        can get enough people speaking out with personal firsthand accounts
        like mine that we will be able to disarm the industry of that
        important weapon against those of us trying to make changes.

        We do indeed have a major battle on our hands, or in their (Dan
        Murphy of meatingplace, in particular ,and yes I think I still have
        this article in the archives of my group, and would be happy to share
        it with you, though the archives are open to the public - for that
        matter, I have a wealth of archives I would be happy to help out with
        for anyone needing specific info on anything - that's what I do and
        am here for; spreading the TRUTH!) words "a war" against activists,
        whom they claim exaggerate the truth and publicize the few isolated
        cases where this kind of thing happens, rather than acknowledging
        that it is indeed the norm, as those of us informed enough to
        recognize that the lies they portray as the truth are anything but.
        We have the truth on our side, though, and it is making them quite
        nervous (I have proof of that, too!)

        I have noticed a changing trend as the evidence continues to mount,
        though. As they find it harder and harder to discount the hard
        evidence that people are starting to have thrown into their faces,
        they are resorting more and more to trying to discredit the source,
        such as me. There was an all-out vicious effort to discredit me when
        I came forward, thus changing the direction the coverage and
        discussion was going. Rather than talking about the horror stories I
        was blowing the whistle on, they decided to take another tactic -
        change the topic of discussion entirely to bring it around to a
        discussion about me, my character, and therefore, my credibility.
        Anything at all to get the spotlight off of them and their unethical
        and illegal practices and onto my personal life, when that had
        absolutely nothing to do with what I saw down at that plant. And,
        truthfully, they were largely effective with this technique, at least
        in the short term, until I was able to disprove their allegations
        with cold hard evidence to the contrary. The problem was that by the
        time I was able to produce the evidence that what they alleged about
        me was a mixture of all-out lies and a combination of twisted facts
        and all, most of the damage was done. The vast majority of people
        that had read their lies had moved on to other issues by the time I
        was finally able to prove them wrong. This had more than one
        advantage for them. It wasted my time defending myself instead of
        using that time to talking about and educating those about the
        problems down there and in the whole meat-packing industry itself,
        but also, but also had the advantage of having so many people
        everywhere believing their bunk that ultimately dismissed me as
        a "disgruntled former employee bent on revenge" that then moved on to
        other issues, that by the time I finally proved them wrong, the
        spotlight had moved on to other pressing issues and off of them. So
        that, by the time I was finally able to sort things out, most of
        those people believing the lies were not still around to hear that
        corrected version. So, these people still believe that I am full of
        it and still dismiss everything I have to say, convinced I am
        northing but a big ol' liar. Therefore they are much harder to reach
        and perhaps can never be reached, at least not by me since they
        refuse to listen to anything I have to say.

        So, you can see why it is so important to me to keep gathering more
        firsthnd accounts to gather together and present to the public to
        illustrate that it is indeed a widespread problem the companies and
        the industry itself perpetrates, and not isolated acts of "a few bad
        apples" that can be conveniently fired while business continues as
        usual. This will be the only way to hold the whole industry
        acountable and force the people with their heads in the sand to face
        what they are condoning and supporting every single time they buy ad
        consume their products. It's essential to get these stories, as many
        as possible, to accomplish that.

        So, I am in an all-out effort to get a lot of these stories docuented
        and gathered together (even if need be, some must be reported
        anonymously, for fear of reprisal). I think this can work, but it
        will take some time to accomplish. But, if you give your consent, I
        will add it to my growing list of corroborative accounts, making
        these details public in an effort to change things. If you agree to
        this, I can use the little that has already been posted here publcly,
        but if you can give more specifics, it would be greatly appreciated.
        You can contact me by email if you like, and if you want, I solemnly
        promise to keep your name out of it if necessry. I don't want to
        make anyone's life harder than it already is. And, as I have sated
        repeatedly on my site, I have a policy I stick by of NEVER publishing
        anything at all (especially names) sent in privvate emails to me
        without express consent of the person writing it. And, for
        everything I do have consent for, I also always let the person go
        over it to make sure that what will be posted is something they are
        careful with. Just let me know.

        Thanks for sharing and for caring.

        Virgil

        --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "cinbud@a..." <cinbud@a...> wrote:
        > Hi, Virgil! Okay, I'm home. You might have gotten a post I sent you
        via
        > your website a couple days ago - I'm the one who posted the pics of
        that
        > poor brutalized pullet, which I found via a notice sent out by
        United
        > Poultry Concerns.
        >
        > Anyhow, it just so happens that the page with her awful pics is the
        very
        > one that has chicken recipes, courtesy of Google (ever sensitive).
        > http://shw.fotopages.com/521919.html
        >
        > In case others aren't getting what I get, this is the lineup:
        >
        > Ads by Goooooogle
        > Free $50 Fast Food Card
        > Subway, Wendy's, KFC, Burger King Guaranteed 100% Free - Act Now!
        > www.InternetOpinionGroup.com
        >
        > Bbq Chicken Recipes
        > Get Free Barbecue Recipes. Simple & Easy To Follow! Choose From
        1,000's
        > www.RecipeRewards.com
        >
        > Eat Out For Less
        > Restaurant Coupons Galore Save Big Time Plus Enter To Win $50,000
        > www.eversave.com
        >
        > Grilled Chicken Recipe
        > Find Delicious Recipes & Cooking Tips Online - Visit Now!
        > www.SuperTarget.com
        >
        > Nice, eh?
        >
        > Anyhow, glad to have you in the group!! I got my first taste of the
        poultry
        > industry when I moved to rural Maine in the early 1970s, to a town
        where
        > poultry was the primary industry. Later I had friends who worked in
        the
        > plants (I never did, but would go in briefly to speak to friends,
        and so at
        > least SAW the environment, which was people standing on wet, bloody
        > concrete, suffering repeated hand injuries that later became
        infected and
        > eventually ruined their hands, while mostly dead chickens, straight
        from
        > scalding and de-feathering, had their heads slowly PULLED off by a
        fork as
        > the line passed, and where there was a 50 gallon bucket stenciled
        with
        > drippy letters 'CONDEMNED', where the chicken parts too cancerous or
        > otherwise hideous to consume were thrown).
        >
        > But in the early days all I knew about it was the trucks hurtling
        by,
        > spewing feathers, and the gossip (true, it turns out) that in
        winter the
        > unprotected chickens in the outside cages froze and their bodies
        insulated
        > the inner ones, and the fact that periodically we would see a white
        chicken
        > running through the underbrush, or lying in the road. Our small
        flock was
        > begun when my brother and I began catching and bringing home the
        > unfortunate survivors, and one of my earliest was Chickadee, a
        little
        > pullet nearly frozen to death, who lived, sans one eye and all her
        toes,
        > but who became a loving pet.
        >
        > My father, who had worked as a commercial artist in NYC all his
        adult life
        > before moving to Maine, tried to find work gathering the chickens
        from the
        > barns, but lasted maybe two weeks. The practices he described
        suggest
        > underpaid and ignorant workers taking their frustrations out on the
        birds.
        > :/
        > Cindy
        >
        >
        > Original Message:
        > -----------------
        > From: Virgil cybergypsy1964@y...
        > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:55:09 -0000
        > To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [BatteryHens] Hello, everyone!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > After one of your members joining my Activists Against Factory
        > Farming group, I decided to some and see this group for myself
        after
        > she told me about its existence. I see that I have already been
        > discussed, so I guess I don't need much of an introduction.
        >
        > I would like to clarify one thing, though. I do NOT eat meat. I
        do
        > not consume dairy, and certainly do not eat battery chicken eggs.
        > And I am not sure what you are talking about when you say I have a
        > recipe for grilled chicken. Where? I certainly don't eat
        chicken!
        > Are you sure it is a recipe for real chicken and not one for one of
        > the meat substitutes? I don't recall posting either kind, but I
        > would love to understand where that remark came from. If there is
        in
        > fact a recipe somewhere for chicken that is associated with me in
        > some way or another, I would like to know so that I can remove it!
        I
        > started having a serious aversion to chicken years ago after going
        to
        > work in that hellhole of a plant. If you read what I have written,
        > then I am sure you understand why. And, after I went public with
        > what happened during my years at Tyson, I began to find out that my
        > experience were anything but unique, and they weren't even unique
        to
        > the poultry industry. So, I quit supporting that by refusing to
        buy
        > or consumer one more bite of their "products." (I use the scare
        > quotes because that was Tyson's way of referring to chickens,
        either
        > pre-processed product or post-processed product - NEVER chickens.
        It
        > was yet another way to desensitize us workers to their suffering by
        > reducing a living, feeling bird to nothing more than "product.")
        >
        > I also notice that there has been quite a bit of notice given to
        one
        > of the rescued chickens that fell off the back of one of the trucks
        > that was so severely injured that we had to take her to have her
        > euthanized. Man, that was horrible! Even for me, and I have seen
        a
        > lot. Laura just cried and cried that day. I hope we never see
        > another tragedy like that again. Of course, I am realistic enough
        to
        > think that it is all too possible, given where we live and how many
        > chicken houses surround us, not to mention how badly Tyson
        maintains
        > everything. But, on a happier note, I am happy to report that just
        a
        > couple of days ago we were given yet another chance to pick a
        couple
        > of chickens off the side of the road, and these are in good enough
        > shape that we can help them. They are doing fine in our big
        > isolation cage, where we quarantine rescues and sick birds from the
        > rest of the chickens to make sure nobody gets anybody else sick.
        > They are eating just fine and don't seem to have been hurt badly
        from
        > their fall, I'm delighted to say. I will be putting pics of them
        up
        > on my photo page in the next day or so as soon as I can borrow the
        > camera to do so.
        >
        > I'm glad to find this group dedicated to battery hens - probably
        the
        > most abused animals on the face of the earth. I haven't yet had
        time
        > to go through your archives or anything, except for the latest ones
        > written about me, but it looks like there are a lot of caring
        people
        > here. It's good to know that so many people care about chickens.
        > For many years I really and truly thought no one did. Many people
        > have proved me wrong. And I am glad.
        >
        > Virgil
        > http://cyberactivist.blogspot.com/
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/activistsagainstfactoryfarming/
        > http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/AgainstFactoryFarming
        >
        > Animals suffer as much as we do...
        > It is our duty to make the whole world recognize it.
        > - DR. ALBERT SCHWEITZER
        >
        > "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
        > goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that whoever
        is
        > cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
        > -A. Schopenhauer
        >
        > "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
        > goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that whoever
        is
        > cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
        > -A. Schopenhauer
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
        > http://mail2web.com/ .
      • cinbud@acadia.net
        Virgil, you are more than welcome to use my words for any purpose you think might help, and please use my name as well. Unfortunately, I don t know much more
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 19, 2005
          Virgil, you are more than welcome to use my words for any purpose you think
          might help, and please use my name as well. Unfortunately, I don't know
          much more than what I wrote, as I never actually worked in the plants.
          Everything I saw took place between 1971 and 1978, when I graduated HS and
          moved to NYC for some years - the plants in question were the Maplewood and
          Penobscot poultry processing plants in Belfast, Maine.

          Shortly after I left the area, the bottom dropped out of the poultry
          industry in midcoastal Maine, and both plants closed. Many people I
          graduated with took out large loans to buy poultry barns, which were then
          rendered useless. The barns were enormous, with very tiny windows that
          provided some ventilation but let in almost no light, so some tried to grow
          mushrooms in them once the poultry industry went south (literally, to where
          heating costs were lower), but basically they were worthless without 45,000
          chicks to stuff into them.

          I do remember as we were building up a small home flock of chickens (as
          pets and for eggs, founded by rescued birds who had fallen off trucks),
          acquiring a few dark-colored chicks. These would supposedly cause a
          stampede and mass suffocation in the overcrowded conditions of a poultry
          barn (full of yellow chicks), so they were routinely fed (alive, I believe)
          to pigs.

          I also remember years later being back in the area, going to a jobs
          services office looking for employment. As I waited, I sat beside an older
          woman with clawlike crippled hands. We got chatting, and she told me that
          she had worked for many years for one of the plants, and like many,
          repeated infections that she was forced to work through had destroyed her
          hands. She told me that a large group of plant workers had organized a
          lawsuit against the former plant owners for crippling them, but I don't
          know what came of it or how far it got.

          Interesting that as I think about it I do remember some things, just from
          living in the area... I remember visiting a friend at I think Penobscot,
          and her job was termed 'venter'. She was the first person to handle the
          bird after it was scalded, defeathered, and had its head slowly pulled off
          by the method I mentioned earlier. As I recall it, her job was to take
          every second bird (hanging by the feet, of course), stab a knife into its
          vent, pull out a loop of intestine and cut it loose one one side, leaving
          about 8 inches of gut dangling. I can't recall what the point of this was,
          but I do remember further up the line the people with dangling vacuums,
          sucking all the innards out of the opened cavities of the birds... right
          next to that ol' CONDEMNED bucket...

          I remember it seeming like a form of hell, and vowing I would never work
          there. I did nonetheless take a job as a 'clam-shucker' at one time, and
          lasted one interminable day. The clams, lightly scalded, squirmed when you
          opened them to rip them from their shells.
          :/
          Cindy
          PS: As you and Lily have pointed out, treating living things as 'product'
          seems to me the primary problem here (I have used the analogy of a car
          assembly plant before myself). If things are alive, and you treat them so,
          and take their life quickly with the full knowledge that you are taking a
          life, this seems very different to me from factory-farming-hell.

          I am much more comfortable eating local venison than beef - I know the deer
          lived a normal life, and then died suddenly. This is very different from
          eating an animal that was tortured from birth to premature, miserable
          death, and never allowed to really be alive, in my mind. I am in full
          respect for veganism, but I also would like to be able to eat meat (and
          eggs, and milk products, which I love) without knowing that I am
          contributing to systematic torture. I'll pay whatever they ask, if they can
          reassure me that the animals are treated like... well, like animals (as we
          humans are), rather than like 'product'.



          Original Message:
          -----------------
          From: Virgil cybergypsy1964@...
          Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:25:01 -0000
          To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [BatteryHens] Re: Hello, everyone!




          I would like to have your permission to use your personal story of
          what you saw and heard in Maine if you don't mind, in my groups and
          on the blog. Any more specifics that you may have on this will
          obviously be welcomed. One of my priorities that I have been working
          on is to show that the kinds of stories of my experiences and the
          kinds of things caught on video by PETA and COK, among others, are
          anything but the industry-promoted myth that these incidents are
          isolated and the work of "a few bad apples."

          That seems to be one of the main ways the public uses to hide behind
          in order to blind themselves to the truth that these problems are
          indeed widespread in an effort to justify their continued support of
          this industry by their continual buying and consuming the products of
          this unethical and inhumane industry. I firmly believe that once we
          can get enough people speaking out with personal firsthand accounts
          like mine that we will be able to disarm the industry of that
          important weapon against those of us trying to make changes.

          We do indeed have a major battle on our hands, or in their (Dan
          Murphy of meatingplace, in particular ,and yes I think I still have
          this article in the archives of my group, and would be happy to share
          it with you, though the archives are open to the public - for that
          matter, I have a wealth of archives I would be happy to help out with
          for anyone needing specific info on anything - that's what I do and
          am here for; spreading the TRUTH!) words "a war" against activists,
          whom they claim exaggerate the truth and publicize the few isolated
          cases where this kind of thing happens, rather than acknowledging
          that it is indeed the norm, as those of us informed enough to
          recognize that the lies they portray as the truth are anything but.
          We have the truth on our side, though, and it is making them quite
          nervous (I have proof of that, too!)

          I have noticed a changing trend as the evidence continues to mount,
          though. As they find it harder and harder to discount the hard
          evidence that people are starting to have thrown into their faces,
          they are resorting more and more to trying to discredit the source,
          such as me. There was an all-out vicious effort to discredit me when
          I came forward, thus changing the direction the coverage and
          discussion was going. Rather than talking about the horror stories I
          was blowing the whistle on, they decided to take another tactic -
          change the topic of discussion entirely to bring it around to a
          discussion about me, my character, and therefore, my credibility.
          Anything at all to get the spotlight off of them and their unethical
          and illegal practices and onto my personal life, when that had
          absolutely nothing to do with what I saw down at that plant. And,
          truthfully, they were largely effective with this technique, at least
          in the short term, until I was able to disprove their allegations
          with cold hard evidence to the contrary. The problem was that by the
          time I was able to produce the evidence that what they alleged about
          me was a mixture of all-out lies and a combination of twisted facts
          and all, most of the damage was done. The vast majority of people
          that had read their lies had moved on to other issues by the time I
          was finally able to prove them wrong. This had more than one
          advantage for them. It wasted my time defending myself instead of
          using that time to talking about and educating those about the
          problems down there and in the whole meat-packing industry itself,
          but also, but also had the advantage of having so many people
          everywhere believing their bunk that ultimately dismissed me as
          a "disgruntled former employee bent on revenge" that then moved on to
          other issues, that by the time I finally proved them wrong, the
          spotlight had moved on to other pressing issues and off of them. So
          that, by the time I was finally able to sort things out, most of
          those people believing the lies were not still around to hear that
          corrected version. So, these people still believe that I am full of
          it and still dismiss everything I have to say, convinced I am
          northing but a big ol' liar. Therefore they are much harder to reach
          and perhaps can never be reached, at least not by me since they
          refuse to listen to anything I have to say.

          So, you can see why it is so important to me to keep gathering more
          firsthnd accounts to gather together and present to the public to
          illustrate that it is indeed a widespread problem the companies and
          the industry itself perpetrates, and not isolated acts of "a few bad
          apples" that can be conveniently fired while business continues as
          usual. This will be the only way to hold the whole industry
          acountable and force the people with their heads in the sand to face
          what they are condoning and supporting every single time they buy ad
          consume their products. It's essential to get these stories, as many
          as possible, to accomplish that.

          So, I am in an all-out effort to get a lot of these stories docuented
          and gathered together (even if need be, some must be reported
          anonymously, for fear of reprisal). I think this can work, but it
          will take some time to accomplish. But, if you give your consent, I
          will add it to my growing list of corroborative accounts, making
          these details public in an effort to change things. If you agree to
          this, I can use the little that has already been posted here publcly,
          but if you can give more specifics, it would be greatly appreciated.
          You can contact me by email if you like, and if you want, I solemnly
          promise to keep your name out of it if necessry. I don't want to
          make anyone's life harder than it already is. And, as I have sated
          repeatedly on my site, I have a policy I stick by of NEVER publishing
          anything at all (especially names) sent in privvate emails to me
          without express consent of the person writing it. And, for
          everything I do have consent for, I also always let the person go
          over it to make sure that what will be posted is something they are
          careful with. Just let me know.

          Thanks for sharing and for caring.

          Virgil

          --------------------------------------------------------------------
          mail2web - Check your email from the web at
          http://mail2web.com/ .
        • Cindy
          Virgil, I also want to say, I think you are a very brave person whom history will smile upon - this is a battle that has to be fought, and only people who have
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 19, 2005
            Virgil, I also want to say, I think you are a very brave person whom
            history will smile upon - this is a battle that has to be fought,
            and only people who have seen the inside, and also who have the
            stomach for having as you say, their personal lives attacked, can
            really spearhead it. And there aren't too many of those. I know I
            could find people who worked in the plants in Belfast, but would
            they be willing to speak out? I should find out, if I can...

            Still I have seen my housechickens forum grow from just me, week
            after week, to the current 150 it boasts, and I believe that
            batteryhens will also grow. This is a topic people are going to care
            more and more about, and empathy is a topic we ALL need to think
            about, if we have any hope of surviving as a species.
            :/
            Cindy


            --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "Virgil" <cybergypsy1964@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I would like to have your permission to use your personal story of
            > what you saw and heard in Maine if you don't mind, in my groups
            and
            > on the blog. Any more specifics that you may have on this will
            > obviously be welcomed. One of my priorities that I have been
            working
            > on is to show that the kinds of stories of my experiences and the
            > kinds of things caught on video by PETA and COK, among others, are
            > anything but the industry-promoted myth that these incidents are
            > isolated and the work of "a few bad apples."
            >
            > That seems to be one of the main ways the public uses to hide
            behind
            > in order to blind themselves to the truth that these problems are
            > indeed widespread in an effort to justify their continued support
            of
            > this industry by their continual buying and consuming the products
            of
            > this unethical and inhumane industry. I firmly believe that once
            we
            > can get enough people speaking out with personal firsthand
            accounts
            > like mine that we will be able to disarm the industry of that
            > important weapon against those of us trying to make changes.
            >
            > We do indeed have a major battle on our hands, or in their (Dan
            > Murphy of meatingplace, in particular ,and yes I think I still
            have
            > this article in the archives of my group, and would be happy to
            share
            > it with you, though the archives are open to the public - for that
            > matter, I have a wealth of archives I would be happy to help out
            with
            > for anyone needing specific info on anything - that's what I do
            and
            > am here for; spreading the TRUTH!) words "a war" against
            activists,
            > whom they claim exaggerate the truth and publicize the few
            isolated
            > cases where this kind of thing happens, rather than acknowledging
            > that it is indeed the norm, as those of us informed enough to
            > recognize that the lies they portray as the truth are anything
            but.
            > We have the truth on our side, though, and it is making them quite
            > nervous (I have proof of that, too!)
            >
            > I have noticed a changing trend as the evidence continues to
            mount,
            > though. As they find it harder and harder to discount the hard
            > evidence that people are starting to have thrown into their faces,
            > they are resorting more and more to trying to discredit the
            source,
            > such as me. There was an all-out vicious effort to discredit me
            when
            > I came forward, thus changing the direction the coverage and
            > discussion was going. Rather than talking about the horror
            stories I
            > was blowing the whistle on, they decided to take another tactic -
            > change the topic of discussion entirely to bring it around to a
            > discussion about me, my character, and therefore, my credibility.
            > Anything at all to get the spotlight off of them and their
            unethical
            > and illegal practices and onto my personal life, when that had
            > absolutely nothing to do with what I saw down at that plant. And,
            > truthfully, they were largely effective with this technique, at
            least
            > in the short term, until I was able to disprove their allegations
            > with cold hard evidence to the contrary. The problem was that by
            the
            > time I was able to produce the evidence that what they alleged
            about
            > me was a mixture of all-out lies and a combination of twisted
            facts
            > and all, most of the damage was done. The vast majority of people
            > that had read their lies had moved on to other issues by the time
            I
            > was finally able to prove them wrong. This had more than one
            > advantage for them. It wasted my time defending myself instead of
            > using that time to talking about and educating those about the
            > problems down there and in the whole meat-packing industry itself,
            > but also, but also had the advantage of having so many people
            > everywhere believing their bunk that ultimately dismissed me as
            > a "disgruntled former employee bent on revenge" that then moved on
            to
            > other issues, that by the time I finally proved them wrong, the
            > spotlight had moved on to other pressing issues and off of them.
            So
            > that, by the time I was finally able to sort things out, most of
            > those people believing the lies were not still around to hear that
            > corrected version. So, these people still believe that I am full
            of
            > it and still dismiss everything I have to say, convinced I am
            > northing but a big ol' liar. Therefore they are much harder to
            reach
            > and perhaps can never be reached, at least not by me since they
            > refuse to listen to anything I have to say.
            >
            > So, you can see why it is so important to me to keep gathering
            more
            > firsthnd accounts to gather together and present to the public to
            > illustrate that it is indeed a widespread problem the companies
            and
            > the industry itself perpetrates, and not isolated acts of "a few
            bad
            > apples" that can be conveniently fired while business continues as
            > usual. This will be the only way to hold the whole industry
            > acountable and force the people with their heads in the sand to
            face
            > what they are condoning and supporting every single time they buy
            ad
            > consume their products. It's essential to get these stories, as
            many
            > as possible, to accomplish that.
            >
            > So, I am in an all-out effort to get a lot of these stories
            docuented
            > and gathered together (even if need be, some must be reported
            > anonymously, for fear of reprisal). I think this can work, but it
            > will take some time to accomplish. But, if you give your consent,
            I
            > will add it to my growing list of corroborative accounts, making
            > these details public in an effort to change things. If you agree
            to
            > this, I can use the little that has already been posted here
            publcly,
            > but if you can give more specifics, it would be greatly
            appreciated.
            > You can contact me by email if you like, and if you want, I
            solemnly
            > promise to keep your name out of it if necessry. I don't want to
            > make anyone's life harder than it already is. And, as I have
            sated
            > repeatedly on my site, I have a policy I stick by of NEVER
            publishing
            > anything at all (especially names) sent in privvate emails to me
            > without express consent of the person writing it. And, for
            > everything I do have consent for, I also always let the person go
            > over it to make sure that what will be posted is something they
            are
            > careful with. Just let me know.
            >
            > Thanks for sharing and for caring.
            >
            > Virgil
            >
            > --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "cinbud@a..." <cinbud@a...>
            wrote:
            > > Hi, Virgil! Okay, I'm home. You might have gotten a post I sent
            you
            > via
            > > your website a couple days ago - I'm the one who posted the pics
            of
            > that
            > > poor brutalized pullet, which I found via a notice sent out by
            > United
            > > Poultry Concerns.
            > >
            > > Anyhow, it just so happens that the page with her awful pics is
            the
            > very
            > > one that has chicken recipes, courtesy of Google (ever
            sensitive).
            > > http://shw.fotopages.com/521919.html
            > >
            > > In case others aren't getting what I get, this is the lineup:
            > >
            > > Ads by Goooooogle
            > > Free $50 Fast Food Card
            > > Subway, Wendy's, KFC, Burger King Guaranteed 100% Free - Act Now!
            > > www.InternetOpinionGroup.com
            > >
            > > Bbq Chicken Recipes
            > > Get Free Barbecue Recipes. Simple & Easy To Follow! Choose From
            > 1,000's
            > > www.RecipeRewards.com
            > >
            > > Eat Out For Less
            > > Restaurant Coupons Galore Save Big Time Plus Enter To Win $50,000
            > > www.eversave.com
            > >
            > > Grilled Chicken Recipe
            > > Find Delicious Recipes & Cooking Tips Online - Visit Now!
            > > www.SuperTarget.com
            > >
            > > Nice, eh?
            > >
            > > Anyhow, glad to have you in the group!! I got my first taste of
            the
            > poultry
            > > industry when I moved to rural Maine in the early 1970s, to a
            town
            > where
            > > poultry was the primary industry. Later I had friends who worked
            in
            > the
            > > plants (I never did, but would go in briefly to speak to
            friends,
            > and so at
            > > least SAW the environment, which was people standing on wet,
            bloody
            > > concrete, suffering repeated hand injuries that later became
            > infected and
            > > eventually ruined their hands, while mostly dead chickens,
            straight
            > from
            > > scalding and de-feathering, had their heads slowly PULLED off by
            a
            > fork as
            > > the line passed, and where there was a 50 gallon bucket
            stenciled
            > with
            > > drippy letters 'CONDEMNED', where the chicken parts too
            cancerous or
            > > otherwise hideous to consume were thrown).
            > >
            > > But in the early days all I knew about it was the trucks
            hurtling
            > by,
            > > spewing feathers, and the gossip (true, it turns out) that in
            > winter the
            > > unprotected chickens in the outside cages froze and their bodies
            > insulated
            > > the inner ones, and the fact that periodically we would see a
            white
            > chicken
            > > running through the underbrush, or lying in the road. Our small
            > flock was
            > > begun when my brother and I began catching and bringing home the
            > > unfortunate survivors, and one of my earliest was Chickadee, a
            > little
            > > pullet nearly frozen to death, who lived, sans one eye and all
            her
            > toes,
            > > but who became a loving pet.
            > >
            > > My father, who had worked as a commercial artist in NYC all his
            > adult life
            > > before moving to Maine, tried to find work gathering the
            chickens
            > from the
            > > barns, but lasted maybe two weeks. The practices he described
            > suggest
            > > underpaid and ignorant workers taking their frustrations out on
            the
            > birds.
            > > :/
            > > Cindy
            > >
            > >
            > > Original Message:
            > > -----------------
            > > From: Virgil cybergypsy1964@y...
            > > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:55:09 -0000
            > > To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [BatteryHens] Hello, everyone!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > After one of your members joining my Activists Against Factory
            > > Farming group, I decided to some and see this group for myself
            > after
            > > she told me about its existence. I see that I have already been
            > > discussed, so I guess I don't need much of an introduction.
            > >
            > > I would like to clarify one thing, though. I do NOT eat meat.
            I
            > do
            > > not consume dairy, and certainly do not eat battery chicken
            eggs.
            > > And I am not sure what you are talking about when you say I have
            a
            > > recipe for grilled chicken. Where? I certainly don't eat
            > chicken!
            > > Are you sure it is a recipe for real chicken and not one for one
            of
            > > the meat substitutes? I don't recall posting either kind, but I
            > > would love to understand where that remark came from. If there
            is
            > in
            > > fact a recipe somewhere for chicken that is associated with me
            in
            > > some way or another, I would like to know so that I can remove
            it!
            > I
            > > started having a serious aversion to chicken years ago after
            going
            > to
            > > work in that hellhole of a plant. If you read what I have
            written,
            > > then I am sure you understand why. And, after I went public
            with
            > > what happened during my years at Tyson, I began to find out that
            my
            > > experience were anything but unique, and they weren't even
            unique
            > to
            > > the poultry industry. So, I quit supporting that by refusing to
            > buy
            > > or consumer one more bite of their "products." (I use the scare
            > > quotes because that was Tyson's way of referring to chickens,
            > either
            > > pre-processed product or post-processed product - NEVER
            chickens.
            > It
            > > was yet another way to desensitize us workers to their suffering
            by
            > > reducing a living, feeling bird to nothing more than "product.")
            > >
            > > I also notice that there has been quite a bit of notice given to
            > one
            > > of the rescued chickens that fell off the back of one of the
            trucks
            > > that was so severely injured that we had to take her to have her
            > > euthanized. Man, that was horrible! Even for me, and I have
            seen
            > a
            > > lot. Laura just cried and cried that day. I hope we never see
            > > another tragedy like that again. Of course, I am realistic
            enough
            > to
            > > think that it is all too possible, given where we live and how
            many
            > > chicken houses surround us, not to mention how badly Tyson
            > maintains
            > > everything. But, on a happier note, I am happy to report that
            just
            > a
            > > couple of days ago we were given yet another chance to pick a
            > couple
            > > of chickens off the side of the road, and these are in good
            enough
            > > shape that we can help them. They are doing fine in our big
            > > isolation cage, where we quarantine rescues and sick birds from
            the
            > > rest of the chickens to make sure nobody gets anybody else
            sick.
            > > They are eating just fine and don't seem to have been hurt badly
            > from
            > > their fall, I'm delighted to say. I will be putting pics of
            them
            > up
            > > on my photo page in the next day or so as soon as I can borrow
            the
            > > camera to do so.
            > >
            > > I'm glad to find this group dedicated to battery hens - probably
            > the
            > > most abused animals on the face of the earth. I haven't yet had
            > time
            > > to go through your archives or anything, except for the latest
            ones
            > > written about me, but it looks like there are a lot of caring
            > people
            > > here. It's good to know that so many people care about
            chickens.
            > > For many years I really and truly thought no one did. Many
            people
            > > have proved me wrong. And I am glad.
            > >
            > > Virgil
            > > http://cyberactivist.blogspot.com/
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/activistsagainstfactoryfarming/
            > > http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/AgainstFactoryFarming
            > >
            > > Animals suffer as much as we do...
            > > It is our duty to make the whole world recognize it.
            > > - DR. ALBERT SCHWEITZER
            > >
            > > "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
            > > goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that
            whoever
            > is
            > > cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
            > > -A. Schopenhauer
            > >
            > > "Since compassion for animals is so intimately associated with
            > > goodness of character, it may be confidently asserted that
            whoever
            > is
            > > cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
            > > -A. Schopenhauer
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
            ---
            > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
            > > http://mail2web.com/ .
          • Cindy
            Brooks (pop. 900 or so) is actually the town I lived in, tho everyone commuted to Belfast. http://www.ibiblio.org/extimacy/interview/alicia/1.html
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 19, 2005
              Brooks (pop. 900 or so) is actually the town I lived in, tho
              everyone commuted to Belfast.

              http://www.ibiblio.org/extimacy/interview/alicia/1.html
              http://www.ibiblio.org/extimacy/interview/alicia/2.html

              etc. - you can't just go to 'next page'
            • Marlene Lenker
              ... after ... I guess that would be me. ... couple ... from ... up ... Virgil, are these chickens Faith and Hope, the ones that died the other day? If
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 21, 2005
                --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "Virgil" <cybergypsy1964@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                > After one of your members joining my Activists Against Factory
                > Farming group, I decided to some and see this group for myself
                after
                > she told me about its existence.

                I guess that would be me. <G>

                >But, on a happier note, I am happy to report that just a
                > couple of days ago we were given yet another chance to pick a
                couple
                > of chickens off the side of the road, and these are in good enough
                > shape that we can help them. They are doing fine in our big
                > isolation cage, where we quarantine rescues and sick birds from the
                > rest of the chickens to make sure nobody gets anybody else sick.
                > They are eating just fine and don't seem to have been hurt badly
                from
                > their fall, I'm delighted to say. I will be putting pics of them
                up
                > on my photo page in the next day or so as soon as I can borrow the
                > camera to do so.

                Virgil, are these chickens Faith and Hope, the ones that died the
                other day? If so, what happened that they died? I inadvertantly
                rescued some Cornish Xs a couple of weeks ago. Out of 27, I lost
                seven; five due to the way they were handled and crammed into the
                cages prior to me getting them: one died of suffication, four died
                from massive bruising and/or internal injuries in the first week. I
                lost two because even tho they are separated from the rest of my
                chickens, the free rangers can get in there and have exposed them to
                illness, even tho I had them on Auromycin as a preventative. But
                other then leg problems, they are happy and healthy, getting to dust
                bath and be outside where they can hunt for goodies in the dirt. I
                have some solace in knowing that except for the one that sufficated,
                the ones that died did have at least one day of being outside in the
                fresh air and sunshine.


                > I'm glad to find this group dedicated to battery hens - probably
                the
                > most abused animals on the face of the earth.

                I agree. At least the Tyson meat chicken's suffering ends at 9
                weeks, whereas the battery hens can last as long as 18 months.

                > It's good to know that so many people care about chickens.
                > For many years I really and truly thought no one did. Many people
                > have proved me wrong. And I am glad.

                And I think I can speak for this group and say the same about you:
                seeing and experiencing what you did, and choosing not to turn a
                blind eye to the chicken's plight. We are glad you are here, too. :)

                Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane
              • Marlene Lenker
                Yuppers. Sad but true. Whatever happened to one s integrity? Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane ... Grandma Moses
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 21, 2005
                  Yuppers. Sad but true.

                  Whatever happened to one's integrity?

                  Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane


                  --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "cinbud@a..." <cinbud@a...> wrote:
                  > Lily, too right. This is the crux of the problem.
                  > :/
                  > Cindy
                  >
                  > Original Message:
                  > -----------------
                  > From: M.L.P. Branga lily1013@g...
                  > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:14:52 -0500
                  > To: BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [BatteryHens] Hello, everyone!
                  >
                  > Nothing is as important as the
                  > bottom line to these businesses. It's a very sad thing.
                  >
                  > Lily
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > "If I didn't start painting, I would have raised chickens." -
                  Grandma Moses
                  >
                  > Othala Acres -Troy, NH
                  > www.OthalaAcres.com
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                  > http://mail2web.com/ .
                • Marlene Lenker
                  I second that. But Cindy, don t sell yourself short either. I am sooo glad you started Battery Hens. And Virgil, if you get the chance, you REALLY have to
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 21, 2005
                    I second that. But Cindy, don't sell yourself short either. I am
                    sooo glad you started Battery Hens. And Virgil, if you get the
                    chance, you REALLY have to check out housechickens. I've told Cindy
                    a number of times, they are one of my all-time favorite groups. In
                    fact, I think just about all our members so far have come from
                    housechickens.

                    Marlene, AKA Chicken Jane

                    --- In BatteryHens@yahoogroups.com, "Cindy" <cinbud@a...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Virgil, I also want to say, I think you are a very brave person
                    whom
                    > history will smile upon - this is a battle that has to be fought,
                    > and only people who have seen the inside, and also who have the
                    > stomach for having as you say, their personal lives attacked, can
                    > really spearhead it. And there aren't too many of those. I know I
                    > could find people who worked in the plants in Belfast, but would
                    > they be willing to speak out? I should find out, if I can...
                    >
                    > Still I have seen my housechickens forum grow from just me, week
                    > after week, to the current 150 it boasts, and I believe that
                    > batteryhens will also grow. This is a topic people are going to
                    care
                    > more and more about, and empathy is a topic we ALL need to think
                    > about, if we have any hope of surviving as a species.
                    > :/
                    > Cindy
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