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Re: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup

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  • Carol B.
    Hi Vera, I don t focus on weights, so I can t really tell you about that. Unless I have a specific reason to weigh them, I just make a visual assessment. 
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 30, 2013
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      Hi Vera,

      I don't focus on weights, so I can't really tell you about that. Unless I have a specific reason to weigh them, I just make a visual assessment.  Males are almost always smaller than females.  If he's having trouble with viscera, it sounds as though he's still a pup and not yet a juvenile, but you say three feedings a day is about right for him?  My juvies have just graduated to three feedings a day, and they're all on whole mealworms.

      My formula ratio was different, but I don't know if that matters.  I used 1/8 part Fox Valley 32/40, 1/8 part Goat's Milk Esbilac, 1 part Ultra Boost, and 2 parts water.  Since you're mixing it with blended food, he should be getting enough protein.

      The housing sounds fine, and the wing folding sounds normal.  I've seen them fold their wings inside out and seem perfectly comfortable with it. 

      I can't think of anything else to tell you.  It sounds as though you're doing things right.

      Carol



      From: Vera Blevins <blevinsva42@...>
      To: BatAdvoGroup <BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:28 AM
      Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup

      I picked up a red bat pup 8 days ago.  He weighed 4.4 gms, fully
      furred. dehydrated and thin for a pup.-----not sure how long he had
      been down,but she did know it was
      several hours before she called for help hoping he would be able to fly away.

      This morning he weighed in at 4.8gms.    I am feeding
      FV32/40 with UB mixed about half and half with the soft blended 3x a day.
      This seems like a good schedule and diet after a bumpy start of
      getting feeding schedule and diet right. I have given him mw viscara
      to start but he struggled with it.
      My plan now is to start offering them again along with the above mixture.

      I also transferred just transferred him to a reptarium from a port a
      bat.  Although I haven't seem him stretching those wings yet, he is
      grooming himself as I hold him after eating.  (I should say he helps
      me) .  I always am concerned about those fragile wing tips.  He
      doesn't always get them folded in very good.  Is this normal at this
      age?

      My questions since I mainly deal with Big Browns.

      1. Is the above mentioned  a normal weight gain for red bat pups?
      2. How old was this pup when I got him?
      3. Should I be doing anything different in housing? (He is the only
      pup I have at the moment) I had a single three years ago and all he
      ever did was fly around a large room 2-3 times and then just drop. He
      never could get sustained flight.  I am hoping that this one will be
      releaseable.

      Thanks.

      Vera
      Iowa


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    • Vera Blevins
      A belated thank you, Carol, for your imput on red bat pups. Since then, (about a week ago) things have really moved forward. He is now taking whole MW from
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 6, 2013
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        A belated thank you, Carol, for your imput on red bat pups. Since
        then, (about a week ago) things have really moved forward. He is now
        taking whole MW from the tweezers, still 3x a day and on that third
        feeding I am still offering blended/formula to finish after a few MW.
        2 days ago he got just two feedings and today I am working on him
        grabbing the worms out of a dish.

        I weighed him to try to get a deterination on his age and from your
        experience to see if his weight gain was following a routine red bat
        path. So I guess my question now is how old are they when they reach
        adult weight?
        He still seems pretty either lazy, lethargic or less active than the
        BBs I work with.
        I just don't see much action. I am also holding him over the bed and
        trying to get him to fly...it is just flutter as of now.

        Vera



        On 7/30/13, Carol B. <ceb_57@...> wrote:
        > Hi Vera,
        >
        > I don't focus on weights, so I can't really tell you about that. Unless I
        > have a specific reason to weigh them, I just make a visual assessment.
        > Males are almost always smaller than females.  If he's having trouble with
        > viscera, it sounds as though he's still a pup and not yet a juvenile, but
        > you say three feedings a day is about right for him?  My juvies have just
        > graduated to three feedings a day, and they're all on whole mealworms.
        >
        > My formula ratio was different, but I don't know if that matters.  I used
        > 1/8 part Fox Valley 32/40, 1/8 part Goat's Milk Esbilac, 1 part Ultra Boost,
        > and 2 parts water.  Since you're mixing it with blended food, he should be
        > getting enough protein.
        >
        > The housing sounds fine, and the wing folding sounds normal.  I've seen them
        > fold their wings inside out and seem perfectly comfortable with it.
        >
        > I can't think of anything else to tell you.  It sounds as though you're
        > doing things right.
        >
        > Carol
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Vera Blevins <blevinsva42@...>
        > To: BatAdvoGroup <BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:28 AM
        > Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup
        >
        >
        > I picked up a red bat pup 8 days ago.  He weighed 4.4 gms, fully
        > furred. dehydrated and thin for a pup.-----not sure how long he had
        > been down,but she did know it was
        > several hours before she called for help hoping he would be able to fly
        > away.
        >
        > This morning he weighed in at 4.8gms.    I am feeding
        > FV32/40 with UB mixed about half and half with the soft blended 3x a day.
        > This seems like a good schedule and diet after a bumpy start of
        > getting feeding schedule and diet right. I have given him mw viscara
        > to start but he struggled with it.
        > My plan now is to start offering them again along with the above mixture.
        >
        > I also transferred just transferred him to a reptarium from a port a
        > bat.  Although I haven't seem him stretching those wings yet, he is
        > grooming himself as I hold him after eating.  (I should say he helps
        > me) .  I always am concerned about those fragile wing tips.  He
        > doesn't always get them folded in very good.  Is this normal at this
        > age?
        >
        > My questions since I mainly deal with Big Browns.
        >
        > 1. Is the above mentioned  a normal weight gain for red bat pups?
        > 2. How old was this pup when I got him?
        > 3. Should I be doing anything different in housing? (He is the only
        > pup I have at the moment) I had a single three years ago and all he
        > ever did was fly around a large room 2-3 times and then just drop. He
        > never could get sustained flight.  I am hoping that this one will be
        > releaseable.
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        > Vera
        > Iowa
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Bruce Taylor
        Here is a growth curve I created from about 100 red bats this is their average and it s pretty accurate. They may deviate a little from this but if they
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 6, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

          Here is a growth curve I created from about 100 red bats this is their average and it’s pretty accurate. They may deviate a little from this but if they deviate a lot then look for some problem change their feed according to the chart times or maybe MBD is happening the adult range is listed on the graph these are from documented sources. Hope this helps. Radar Tulsa

           

          From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vera Blevins
          Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 5:34 PM
          To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup

           

           

          A belated thank you, Carol, for your imput on red bat pups. Since
          then, (about a week ago) things have really moved forward. He is now
          taking whole MW from the tweezers, still 3x a day and on that third
          feeding I am still offering blended/formula to finish after a few MW.
          2 days ago he got just two feedings and today I am working on him
          grabbing the worms out of a dish.

          I weighed him to try to get a deterination on his age and from your
          experience to see if his weight gain was following a routine red bat
          path. So I guess my question now is how old are they when they reach
          adult weight?
          He still seems pretty either lazy, lethargic or less active than the
          BBs I work with.
          I just don't see much action. I am also holding him over the bed and
          trying to get him to fly...it is just flutter as of now.

          Vera

          On 7/30/13, Carol B. <ceb_57@...> wrote:
          > Hi Vera,
          >
          > I don't focus on weights, so I can't really tell you about that. Unless I
          > have a specific reason to weigh them, I just make a visual assessment.
          > Males are almost always smaller than females.  If he's having trouble with
          > viscera, it sounds as though he's still a pup and not yet a juvenile, but
          > you say three feedings a day is about right for him?  My juvies have just
          > graduated to three feedings a day, and they're all on whole mealworms.
          >
          > My formula ratio was different, but I don't know if that matters.  I used
          > 1/8 part Fox Valley 32/40, 1/8 part Goat's Milk Esbilac, 1 part Ultra Boost,
          > and 2 parts water.  Since you're mixing it with blended food, he should be
          > getting enough protein.
          >
          > The housing sounds fine, and the wing folding sounds normal.  I've seen them
          > fold their wings inside out and seem perfectly comfortable with it.
          >
          > I can't think of anything else to tell you.  It sounds as though you're
          > doing things right.
          >
          > Carol
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Vera Blevins <blevinsva42@...>
          > To: BatAdvoGroup <BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:28 AM
          > Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup
          >
          >
          > I picked up a red bat pup 8 days ago.  He weighed 4.4 gms, fully
          > furred. dehydrated and thin for a pup.-----not sure how long he had
          > been down,but she did know it was
          > several hours before she called for help hoping he would be able to fly
          > away.
          >
          > This morning he weighed in at 4.8gms.    I am feeding
          > FV32/40 with UB mixed about half and half with the soft blended 3x a day.
          > This seems like a good schedule and diet after a bumpy start of
          > getting feeding schedule and diet right. I have given him mw viscara
          > to start but he struggled with it.
          > My plan now is to start offering them again along with the above mixture.
          >
          > I also transferred just transferred him to a reptarium from a port a
          > bat.  Although I haven't seem him stretching those wings yet, he is
          > grooming himself as I hold him after eating.  (I should say he helps
          > me) .  I always am concerned about those fragile wing tips.  He
          > doesn't always get them folded in very good.  Is this normal at this
          > age?
          >
          > My questions since I mainly deal with Big Browns.
          >
          > 1. Is the above mentioned  a normal weight gain for red bat pups?
          > 2. How old was this pup when I got him?
          > 3. Should I be doing anything different in housing? (He is the only
          > pup I have at the moment) I had a single three years ago and all he
          > ever did was fly around a large room 2-3 times and then just drop. He
          > never could get sustained flight.  I am hoping that this one will be
          > releaseable.
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Vera
          > Iowa
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        • Bruce Taylor
          Oops I hate it when I do that http://fewerr.org/Pictures/growth_charts/GCERedBat.jpg I have some for other bats like big brown E pip tricolored bat and
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 6, 2013
          • 0 Attachment

            Oops I hate it when I do that http://fewerr.org/Pictures/growth_charts/GCERedBat.jpg

            I have some for other bats like big brown E pip tricolored bat and estimates for the other I’m working on all 45 US species. This will get people started to create their own graph and hopefully they will send me a copy with the data so I can make some accurate charts for use.

             

            From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Taylor
            Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:19 PM
            To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup

             

             

            Here is a growth curve I created from about 100 red bats this is their average and it’s pretty accurate. They may deviate a little from this but if they deviate a lot then look for some problem change their feed according to the chart times or maybe MBD is happening the adult range is listed on the graph these are from documented sources. Hope this helps. Radar Tulsa

             

            From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vera Blevins
            Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 5:34 PM
            To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup

             

             

            A belated thank you, Carol, for your imput on red bat pups. Since
            then, (about a week ago) things have really moved forward. He is now
            taking whole MW from the tweezers, still 3x a day and on that third
            feeding I am still offering blended/formula to finish after a few MW.
            2 days ago he got just two feedings and today I am working on him
            grabbing the worms out of a dish.

            I weighed him to try to get a deterination on his age and from your
            experience to see if his weight gain was following a routine red bat
            path. So I guess my question now is how old are they when they reach
            adult weight?
            He still seems pretty either lazy, lethargic or less active than the
            BBs I work with.
            I just don't see much action. I am also holding him over the bed and
            trying to get him to fly...it is just flutter as of now.

            Vera

            On 7/30/13, Carol B. <ceb_57@...> wrote:
            > Hi Vera,
            >
            > I don't focus on weights, so I can't really tell you about that. Unless I
            > have a specific reason to weigh them, I just make a visual assessment.
            > Males are almost always smaller than females.  If he's having trouble with
            > viscera, it sounds as though he's still a pup and not yet a juvenile, but
            > you say three feedings a day is about right for him?  My juvies have just
            > graduated to three feedings a day, and they're all on whole mealworms.
            >
            > My formula ratio was different, but I don't know if that matters.  I used
            > 1/8 part Fox Valley 32/40, 1/8 part Goat's Milk Esbilac, 1 part Ultra Boost,
            > and 2 parts water.  Since you're mixing it with blended food, he should be
            > getting enough protein.
            >
            > The housing sounds fine, and the wing folding sounds normal.  I've seen them
            > fold their wings inside out and seem perfectly comfortable with it.
            >
            > I can't think of anything else to tell you.  It sounds as though you're
            > doing things right.
            >
            > Carol
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Vera Blevins <blevinsva42@...>
            > To: BatAdvoGroup <BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:28 AM
            > Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup
            >
            >
            > I picked up a red bat pup 8 days ago.  He weighed 4.4 gms, fully
            > furred. dehydrated and thin for a pup.-----not sure how long he had
            > been down,but she did know it was
            > several hours before she called for help hoping he would be able to fly
            > away.
            >
            > This morning he weighed in at 4.8gms.    I am feeding
            > FV32/40 with UB mixed about half and half with the soft blended 3x a day.
            > This seems like a good schedule and diet after a bumpy start of
            > getting feeding schedule and diet right. I have given him mw viscara
            > to start but he struggled with it.
            > My plan now is to start offering them again along with the above mixture.
            >
            > I also transferred just transferred him to a reptarium from a port a
            > bat.  Although I haven't seem him stretching those wings yet, he is
            > grooming himself as I hold him after eating.  (I should say he helps
            > me) .  I always am concerned about those fragile wing tips.  He
            > doesn't always get them folded in very good.  Is this normal at this
            > age?
            >
            > My questions since I mainly deal with Big Browns.
            >
            > 1. Is the above mentioned  a normal weight gain for red bat pups?
            > 2. How old was this pup when I got him?
            > 3. Should I be doing anything different in housing? (He is the only
            > pup I have at the moment) I had a single three years ago and all he
            > ever did was fly around a large room 2-3 times and then just drop. He
            > never could get sustained flight.  I am hoping that this one will be
            > releaseable.
            >
            > Thanks.
            >
            > Vera
            > Iowa
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

          • Carol B
            Hi Vera, As for weight, I m not going to be much help with that. Bruce might be able to help you there. Size doesn t always play much of a role in maturity
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 6, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Vera,

              As for weight, I'm not going to be much help with that. Bruce might be able to help you there.

              Size doesn't always play much of a role in maturity and readiness for release. Sometimes the largest pups are still quite babyish, and the smaller ones may behave in a more mature manner--particularly in males. I tend to look more at things like the bat's level of aggression when feeding and interest in flight.

              Most red bats fly without prompting, so I wonder if your little guy still has some maturing to do. They tend to be most active in the early evening and in the morning, though they show bursts of activity through the night as well.

              I've never succeeded in training red bats to self-feed, though other people have done so. I always just hand feed them.

              Just to give you an idea as to how varied the sizes can be, little Boo (funky leg boy) appeared to be the youngest pup I had for quite some time, although I knew that he was a good two weeks older than the youngest ones in the cage. He stayed tiny for the LONGEST time--I was starting to wonder if he were a dwarf--and then he had a growth spurt. He's still sort of small, but he finally outgrew the youngest boy.

              I'm sorry I haven't been more helpful. Statistics like weights and measurements just don't tend to be areas on which I place a lot of importance. I spend more time observing behaviors and mannerisms.

              Maybe Leslie, Laura, and others who have worked with red bats will chime in and be more helpful.

              Carol

              On Aug 6, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Vera Blevins <blevinsva42@...> wrote:

              > A belated thank you, Carol, for your imput on red bat pups. Since
              > then, (about a week ago) things have really moved forward. He is now
              > taking whole MW from the tweezers, still 3x a day and on that third
              > feeding I am still offering blended/formula to finish after a few MW.
              > 2 days ago he got just two feedings and today I am working on him
              > grabbing the worms out of a dish.
              >
              > I weighed him to try to get a deterination on his age and from your
              > experience to see if his weight gain was following a routine red bat
              > path. So I guess my question now is how old are they when they reach
              > adult weight?
              > He still seems pretty either lazy, lethargic or less active than the
              > BBs I work with.
              > I just don't see much action. I am also holding him over the bed and
              > trying to get him to fly...it is just flutter as of now.
              >
              > Vera
              >
              >
              >
              > On 7/30/13, Carol B. <ceb_57@...> wrote:
              >> Hi Vera,
              >>
              >> I don't focus on weights, so I can't really tell you about that. Unless I
              >> have a specific reason to weigh them, I just make a visual assessment.
              >> Males are almost always smaller than females. If he's having trouble with
              >> viscera, it sounds as though he's still a pup and not yet a juvenile, but
              >> you say three feedings a day is about right for him? My juvies have just
              >> graduated to three feedings a day, and they're all on whole mealworms.
              >>
              >> My formula ratio was different, but I don't know if that matters. I used
              >> 1/8 part Fox Valley 32/40, 1/8 part Goat's Milk Esbilac, 1 part Ultra Boost,
              >> and 2 parts water. Since you're mixing it with blended food, he should be
              >> getting enough protein.
              >>
              >> The housing sounds fine, and the wing folding sounds normal. I've seen them
              >> fold their wings inside out and seem perfectly comfortable with it.
              >>
              >> I can't think of anything else to tell you. It sounds as though you're
              >> doing things right.
              >>
              >> Carol
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ________________________________
              >> From: Vera Blevins <blevinsva42@...>
              >> To: BatAdvoGroup <BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com>
              >> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:28 AM
              >> Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] red pup
              >>
              >>
              >> I picked up a red bat pup 8 days ago. He weighed 4.4 gms, fully
              >> furred. dehydrated and thin for a pup.-----not sure how long he had
              >> been down,but she did know it was
              >> several hours before she called for help hoping he would be able to fly
              >> away.
              >>
              >> This morning he weighed in at 4.8gms. I am feeding
              >> FV32/40 with UB mixed about half and half with the soft blended 3x a day.
              >> This seems like a good schedule and diet after a bumpy start of
              >> getting feeding schedule and diet right. I have given him mw viscara
              >> to start but he struggled with it.
              >> My plan now is to start offering them again along with the above mixture.
              >>
              >> I also transferred just transferred him to a reptarium from a port a
              >> bat. Although I haven't seem him stretching those wings yet, he is
              >> grooming himself as I hold him after eating. (I should say he helps
              >> me) . I always am concerned about those fragile wing tips. He
              >> doesn't always get them folded in very good. Is this normal at this
              >> age?
              >>
              >> My questions since I mainly deal with Big Browns.
              >>
              >> 1. Is the above mentioned a normal weight gain for red bat pups?
              >> 2. How old was this pup when I got him?
              >> 3. Should I be doing anything different in housing? (He is the only
              >> pup I have at the moment) I had a single three years ago and all he
              >> ever did was fly around a large room 2-3 times and then just drop. He
              >> never could get sustained flight. I am hoping that this one will be
              >> releaseable.
              >>
              >> Thanks.
              >>
              >> Vera
              >> Iowa
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
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