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RE: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!

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  • Bruce Taylor
    I was wondering if that was the case. You would think if it is endangered which since it was just found would be the case it should be against if nothing else
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 11 11:02 AM

      I was wondering if that was the case.  You would think if it is endangered which since it was just found would be the case it should be against if nothing else their ethics to do that. Especially with the rehabbers and zoos sanctuaries that can care for it in captivity and they could learn a lot more than just some measurement from it.  Especially with cameras and the internet they could observe it in it’s natural habitat if has a fixed site like a cave. 

       

      From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Sturges
      Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:49 AM
      To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!

       

       

      Kathy, they killed it to 'voucher' it. I don't understand why in this age of technology it'[s still necessary to kill a vanishingly rare animal to prove it actually existed. But that is how it is done. There are probably other specimens in museums that make this particular kill totally unnecessary  but until there's some universal catalog researchers in the field can access, this will continue to be the way it's done. And, of course, a sea change in the mentality of said researchers...

       

      On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Kathy Estes <kestes@...> wrote:

       

      did they really pin that bat to a board???  Did they kill it?

      On 4/10/2013 11:12 PM, Cynthia Myers wrote:

       

      Isn't that a spectacularly beautiful bat??? Here are a few more photos:
      http://www.bucknell.edu/X81336.xml

      Cindy Myers
      Fallbrook CA

      http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
      ^..^

      -----Original Message-----
      From:
      BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of jcoumoutso
      Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:52 PM
      To:
      BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!

      http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-04/pp-sla040913.php

       



       

      --

      Leslie Sturges
      President
      The Save Lucy Campaign
      www.saveLucytheBat.org

    • Karen Scheuermann
      It happens all the time. Somewhere along the line the field biologists lose their reverence for life just like physicians forget their patients are people. To
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 13 7:28 PM
        It happens all the time. Somewhere along the line the field biologists lose their reverence for life just like physicians forget their patients are people. To them, people are just bodies.


        On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Leslie Sturges <lsturges@...> wrote:


        Kathy, they killed it to 'voucher' it. I don't understand why in this age of technology it'[s still necessary to kill a vanishingly rare animal to prove it actually existed. But that is how it is done. There are probably other specimens in museums that make this particular kill totally unnecessary  but until there's some universal catalog researchers in the field can access, this will continue to be the way it's done. And, of course, a sea change in the mentality of said researchers...


        On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Kathy Estes <kestes@...> wrote:
         

        did they really pin that bat to a board???  Did they kill it?

        On 4/10/2013 11:12 PM, Cynthia Myers wrote:
         

        Isn't that a spectacularly beautiful bat??? Here are a few more photos:
        http://www.bucknell.edu/X81336.xml

        Cindy Myers
        Fallbrook CA

        http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
        ^..^

        -----Original Message-----
        From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of jcoumoutso
        Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:52 PM
        To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!

        http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-04/pp-sla040913.php





        --
        Leslie Sturges
        President
        The Save Lucy Campaign
        www.saveLucytheBat.org





        --
        Karen Scheuermann, Wildlife Rehabilitation Permit holder, Tehama Wild Care, Cottonwood, CA
        karens2020@..., 530-347-1687
      • Cynthia Myers
        When I saw the page with additional photos, I didn t realize the bat had been killed and pinned in the last one. Poor little thing was probably calming down a
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 13 8:41 PM

          When I saw the page with additional photos, I didn't realize the bat had been killed and pinned in the last one. Poor little thing was probably calming down a bit right before they did him in.

           

          If a scientist or researcher knows the animal is very rare, knows the animal breeds very slowly, and has no idea of its population status in the wild, they should have taken lots of photos and measurements and a wing punch and some feces pellets and released it to reproduce in the wild. I'm reminded of the Guadalupe Fur Seals that were hunted into what was believed to be extinction here in Southern California and Mexico in the late 1800's. Then in 1928 a small colony was spotted on an island off Baja California and museum collectors rushed in and KILLED EVERY ONE they found. Every single one. Fortunately for the fur seals, a few lucky individuals must have been at sea or hiding out on a small isolated island somewhere else, so their numbers are now slowly recovering, no thanks to the "researchers" who thought they had wiped them off the face of the earth.

           

          I hoped scientists would have more sense than this by now.

          Cindy Myers
          Fallbrook CA

          http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
          ^..^


          From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Karen Scheuermann
          Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 7:28 PM
          To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!

           

          It happens all the time. Somewhere along the line the field biologists lose their reverence for life just like physicians forget their patients are people. To them, people are just bodies.

           

          On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Leslie Sturges <lsturges@...> wrote:

          Kathy, they killed it to 'voucher' it. I don't understand why in this age of technology it'[s still necessary to kill a vanishingly rare animal to prove it actually existed. But that is how it is done. There are probably other specimens in museums that make this particular kill totally unnecessary  but until there's some universal catalog researchers in the field can access, this will continue to be the way it's done. And, of course, a sea change in the mentality of said researchers...

          On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Kathy Estes <kestes@...> wrote:

          did they really pin that bat to a board???  Did they kill it?

          On 4/10/2013 11:12 PM, Cynthia Myers wrote:

           

          Isn't that a spectacularly beautiful bat??? Here are a few more photos:
          http://www.bucknell.edu/X81336.xml

          Cindy Myers
          Fallbrook CA

          http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
          ^..^

        • jcoumoutso
          I am a field biologist and I do not condone killing this bat. I save endangered species for a living and have and always will have a reverence for life. It
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 13 9:25 PM
            I am a field biologist and I do not condone killing this bat. I save endangered species for a living and have and always will have a reverence for life. It does seem that they would stop this practice when discovering a new species as they pretty much already know it is endangered.

            --- In BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com, Karen Scheuermann <karens2020@...> wrote:
            >
            > It happens all the time. Somewhere along the line the field biologists lose
            > their reverence for life just like physicians forget their patients are
            > people. To them, people are just bodies.
            >
            >
            > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Leslie Sturges <lsturges@...
            > > wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Kathy, they killed it to 'voucher' it. I don't understand why in this age
            > > of technology it'[s still necessary to kill a vanishingly rare animal to
            > > prove it actually existed. But that is how it is done. There are probably
            > > other specimens in museums that make this particular kill
            > > totally unnecessary but until there's some universal
            > > catalog researchers in the field can access, this will continue to be the
            > > way it's done. And, of course, a sea change in the mentality of
            > > said researchers...
            > >
            > >
            > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Kathy Estes <kestes@...>wrote:
            > >
            > >> **
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> did they really pin that bat to a board??? Did they kill it?
            > >> On 4/10/2013 11:12 PM, Cynthia Myers wrote:
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Isn't that a spectacularly beautiful bat??? Here are a few more photos:
            > >> http://www.bucknell.edu/X81336.xml
            > >>
            > >> Cindy Myers
            > >> Fallbrook CA
            > >>
            > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
            > >> ^..^
            > >>
            > >> -----Original Message-----
            > >> From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com]
            > >> On
            > >> Behalf Of jcoumoutso
            > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:52 PM
            > >> To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
            > >> Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!
            > >>
            > >> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-04/pp-sla040913.php
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > Leslie Sturges
            > > President
            > > The Save Lucy Campaign
            > > www.saveLucytheBat.org
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Karen Scheuermann, Wildlife Rehabilitation Permit holder, Tehama Wild Care,
            > Cottonwood, CA
            > karens2020@..., 530-347-1687
            > http://www.shastarootsnshoots.com/Tehama_Wild_Care.htm
            >
          • Leslie Sturges
            Thank you! I have met many wonderful, caring field biologists who comment that they don t appreciate the callous disregard for animal life they see in their
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 14 5:49 AM
              Thank you! I have met many wonderful, caring field biologists who comment that they don't appreciate the callous disregard for animal life they see in their field. Hopefully, as a new generation of biologists arises, technology will be adopted over euthanasia and vouchering. What do you recommend that the caring public and experts in other fields, do to change the 'old school' way of doing things?

              I am very concerned at the sheer number of bats being taken for WNS research in the name of getting a 'statistically significant sample size.' 

              Leslie


              On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, jcoumoutso <jill-sawa@...> wrote:
               

              I am a field biologist and I do not condone killing this bat. I save endangered species for a living and have and always will have a reverence for life. It does seem that they would stop this practice when discovering a new species as they pretty much already know it is endangered.

              --- In BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com, Karen Scheuermann <karens2020@...> wrote:
              >
              > It happens all the time. Somewhere along the line the field biologists lose
              > their reverence for life just like physicians forget their patients are
              > people. To them, people are just bodies.
              >
              >
              > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Leslie Sturges <lsturges@...
              > > wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Kathy, they killed it to 'voucher' it. I don't understand why in this age
              > > of technology it'[s still necessary to kill a vanishingly rare animal to
              > > prove it actually existed. But that is how it is done. There are probably
              > > other specimens in museums that make this particular kill
              > > totally unnecessary but until there's some universal
              > > catalog researchers in the field can access, this will continue to be the
              > > way it's done. And, of course, a sea change in the mentality of
              > > said researchers...
              > >
              > >
              > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Kathy Estes <kestes@...>wrote:
              > >
              > >> **
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> did they really pin that bat to a board??? Did they kill it?
              > >> On 4/10/2013 11:12 PM, Cynthia Myers wrote:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Isn't that a spectacularly beautiful bat??? Here are a few more photos:
              > >> http://www.bucknell.edu/X81336.xml
              > >>
              > >> Cindy Myers
              > >> Fallbrook CA
              > >>
              > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
              > >> ^..^
              > >>
              > >> -----Original Message-----
              > >> From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com]
              > >> On
              > >> Behalf Of jcoumoutso
              > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:52 PM
              > >> To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
              > >> Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!
              > >>
              > >> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-04/pp-sla040913.php
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Leslie Sturges
              > > President
              > > The Save Lucy Campaign
              > > www.saveLucytheBat.org
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Karen Scheuermann, Wildlife Rehabilitation Permit holder, Tehama Wild Care,
              > Cottonwood, CA
              > karens2020@..., 530-347-1687
              > http://www.shastarootsnshoots.com/Tehama_Wild_Care.htm
              >




              --
              Leslie Sturges
              President
              The Save Lucy Campaign
              www.saveLucytheBat.org
            • Leslie Sturges
              Here s another issue surrounding this whole case. We, along with hundreds of park naturalists, concerned citizens, and biologists are out here busting our
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 14 6:08 AM
                Here's another issue surrounding this whole case. We, along with hundreds of park naturalists, concerned citizens, and biologists are out here busting our butts to encourage care and concern for the earth's wild things, in our case, bats. The people who work with WNS say over and over again the only thing that will protect the survivors is support from the public. In parks, naturalists work tirelessly to make sure people leave wild animals in the wild. We rehabbers are heavily regulated so we not create pets and dependent animals. But a researcher can get a permit and very publicly with great fanfare remove a wild animal from the wild and kill it. A very rare bat no less! 

                I hope Dr. Reeder is learning from the backlash, and at the same time I hope she realizes that much of the reaction is because of the hard work and dedication of people she knows and works with regularly.

                Leslie


                On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, jcoumoutso <jill-sawa@...> wrote:
                 

                I am a field biologist and I do not condone killing this bat. I save endangered species for a living and have and always will have a reverence for life. It does seem that they would stop this practice when discovering a new species as they pretty much already know it is endangered.

                --- In BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com, Karen Scheuermann <karens2020@...> wrote:
                >
                > It happens all the time. Somewhere along the line the field biologists lose
                > their reverence for life just like physicians forget their patients are
                > people. To them, people are just bodies.
                >
                >
                > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Leslie Sturges <lsturges@...
                > > wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Kathy, they killed it to 'voucher' it. I don't understand why in this age
                > > of technology it'[s still necessary to kill a vanishingly rare animal to
                > > prove it actually existed. But that is how it is done. There are probably
                > > other specimens in museums that make this particular kill
                > > totally unnecessary but until there's some universal
                > > catalog researchers in the field can access, this will continue to be the
                > > way it's done. And, of course, a sea change in the mentality of
                > > said researchers...
                > >
                > >
                > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Kathy Estes <kestes@...>wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> did they really pin that bat to a board??? Did they kill it?
                > >> On 4/10/2013 11:12 PM, Cynthia Myers wrote:
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Isn't that a spectacularly beautiful bat??? Here are a few more photos:
                > >> http://www.bucknell.edu/X81336.xml
                > >>
                > >> Cindy Myers
                > >> Fallbrook CA
                > >>
                > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
                > >> ^..^
                > >>
                > >> -----Original Message-----
                > >> From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com]
                > >> On
                > >> Behalf Of jcoumoutso
                > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 9:52 PM
                > >> To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
                > >> Subject: [BatAdvoGroup] New bat genus discovered!
                > >>
                > >> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-04/pp-sla040913.php
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Leslie Sturges
                > > President
                > > The Save Lucy Campaign
                > > www.saveLucytheBat.org
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Karen Scheuermann, Wildlife Rehabilitation Permit holder, Tehama Wild Care,
                > Cottonwood, CA
                > karens2020@..., 530-347-1687
                > http://www.shastarootsnshoots.com/Tehama_Wild_Care.htm
                >




                --
                Leslie Sturges
                President
                The Save Lucy Campaign
                www.saveLucytheBat.org
              • Cynthia Myers
                I just read an article on WNS where they quoted her: Every bat left in the landscape, Reeder said, is precious.
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 15 7:27 AM

                  I just read an article on WNS where they quoted her:

                  "Every bat left in the landscape," Reeder said, "is precious."

                  http://articles.philly.com/2013-04-09/news/38376470_1_geomyces-white-nose-syndrome-fungus

                   

                  Cindy Myers
                  Fallbrook CA

                  http://home.earthlink.net/~cmsquare
                  ^..^


                  From: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Leslie Sturges
                  Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 6:08 AM
                  To: BatAdvoGroup@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [BatAdvoGroup] Re: New bat genus discovered!

                   

                  I hope Dr. Reeder is learning from the backlash, and at the same time I hope she realizes that much of the reaction is because of the hard work and dedication of people she knows and works with regularly.

                   

                  Leslie

                   

                  On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, jcoumoutso <jill-sawa@...> wrote:

                   

                  I am a field biologist and I do not condone killing this bat. I save endangered species for a living and have and always will have a reverence for life. It does seem that they would stop this practice when discovering a new species as they pretty much already know it is endangered.


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