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EDIT - Western Mountaineering Sequoia sleeping bag - Lyon

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  • Roger Caffin
    EDIT - Western Mountaineering Sequoia sleeping bag - Lyon Hi Richard I think you need to clarify exactly what you are reviewing right up front, as I was rather
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2011
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      EDIT - Western Mountaineering Sequoia sleeping bag - Lyon

      Hi Richard

      I think you need to clarify exactly what you are reviewing right up front,
      as I was rather confused. GWS, MF, or old taffeta? If the latter, I have to
      ask whether it makes sense to review a 20-year-old bag? As you will see from
      the edits.

      Cheers
      Roger Caffin
      BGT Editor
      ----------------------------
      > Today the Sequoia is available in two fabrics: Gore WindstopperT (GWS) or
      > MicroLite XPT Microfiber (MF).
      EDIT: but which one are you actually reviewing? At this stage I cannot tell.
      Have you bought a new GWS version, a new MF version, or are you reviewing
      your very old version - which may no longer be relevant as it may not bear a
      real lot of similarity to the current versions, and is certainly no longer
      available.

      > Listed Weight: 61 oz/1.72 kg in GWS; 55 oz/ 1.56 kg in MF
      > Measured Weight: 54 oz/1.53 kg
      EDIT: But for which model?

      > After a final pressing the bag is draped over the shower curtain bar to
      > dry, which can take two or three days.
      Comment ONLY: washed our king-size bedroom quilt today - first time in 40
      years. In bathtub with Atsko Sports Wash, then carefully spun in a top
      loader. Then hung out on the clothes line in the Australian sun. Dry and
      fluffy by 3 pm. Yeah - it was a bit hot today! :-)
    • richardglyon
      Roger, Thanks for the edits. A couple of comments below, but generally I believe an OR of the Sequoia, even though I have the taffeta fabric, is quite
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2011
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        Roger, Thanks for the edits. A couple of comments below, but generally I believe an OR of the Sequoia, even though I have the taffeta fabric, is quite appropriate. The design is the same, and has been since before I bought my bag. What's unique to this bag is the semi-rec design for such a low rated bag, not the fabric. Twenty years ago Western Mountaineering offered the Sequoia in a couple of (then) high tech fabrics, though they made it in all taffeta too. Whatever were the high tech fabrics then have also been upgraded, as technology has been improved. I think my review makes clear that the fabric is not this bag's strong or weak point. The design's the same, the weight's about the same, the features are the same (down to the separate zips for side and foot), it's still offered by its manufacturer - today's buyer gets pretty much what I got but for a 2010 fabric.

        I welcome your thoughts.

        Cheers (and Happy New Year), Richard

        --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Caffin" <r.caffin@...> wrote:
        >
        > EDIT - Western Mountaineering Sequoia sleeping bag - Lyon
        >
        > Hi Richard
        >
        > I think you need to clarify exactly what you are reviewing right up front,
        > as I was rather confused. GWS, MF, or old taffeta? If the latter, I have to
        > ask whether it makes sense to review a 20-year-old bag? As you will see from
        > the edits.
        >
        > Cheers
        > Roger Caffin
        > BGT Editor
        > ----------------------------
        > > Today the Sequoia is available in two fabrics: Gore WindstopperT (GWS) or
        > > MicroLite XPT Microfiber (MF).
        > EDIT: but which one are you actually reviewing? At this stage I cannot tell.
        > Have you bought a new GWS version, a new MF version, or are you reviewing
        > your very old version - which may no longer be relevant as it may not bear a
        > real lot of similarity to the current versions, and is certainly no longer
        > available.
        XXXXX See comment above.
        >
        >
        > > After a final pressing the bag is draped over the shower curtain bar to
        > > dry, which can take two or three days.
        > Comment ONLY: washed our king-size bedroom quilt today - first time in 40
        > years. In bathtub with Atsko Sports Wash, then carefully spun in a top
        > loader. Then hung out on the clothes line in the Australian sun. Dry and
        > fluffy by 3 pm. Yeah - it was a bit hot today! :-)
        XXXXX So Atko Sport Wash works for down? Are all the down-specific products merely soap-free detergents? Could save some money here . . . .
        >
      • Roger Caffin
        Hi Richard ... That s fine then - I could not understand what was intended. In which case the OR needs to make it clear right at the start, that * you are
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 3, 2011
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          Hi Richard

          > I believe an OR of the Sequoia, even though I have the taffeta fabric, is
          > quite appropriate.
          > The design is the same, and has been since before I bought my bag.
          > The design's the same, the weight's about the same, the features are the
          > same (down to the
          > separate zips for side and foot), it's still offered by its manufacturer -
          > today's buyer gets pretty
          > much what I got but for a 2010 fabric.
          That's fine then - I could not understand what was intended.
          In which case the OR needs to make it clear right at the start, that
          * you are reviewing the Sequoia bag in general
          * it hasn't changed in 20+ years apart from different (improved) fabrics

          Can do?

          > XXXXX So Atko Sport Wash works for down? Are all the down-specific
          > products merely
          > soap-free detergents?

          Yes, Atsko Sports Wash works just fine on down.

          Yes, Sports Wash is detergent, but with a difference from ordinary laundry
          detergent or any 'consumer' shampoo or dish-washing detergent. The
          difference is that all the consumer detergents have added scents, bulking
          agents, brighteners, enzymes, and hordes of other chemicals. Most of the
          added chemicals stay in the fabric after being washed, and that severely
          compromises some outdoors features. The main one is that they block any
          user-applied DWR from adhering, which is a disaster when you are trying to
          revive rainproof gear. The added chemicals can also decrease the action of
          factory-applied DWR - like on a sleeping bag, and let it wet out more
          easily.

          As for washing down: you don't want to strip the remaining oils off the
          down, so harsh detergents are a bad thing. Neither do you wish to clag up
          the extremely fine fibres of the down with added gunk. Sports Wash works
          very well here: it is quite mild.

          The 'soap-free' bit is however irrelevant: there usually is no 'soap' in any
          detergent. 'Soap' is just sodium stearate - plus all the gunk they add to it
          for perfume etc.

          Cheers
          Roger
        • richardglyon
          Roger -
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 3, 2011
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            Roger -

            <<That's fine then - I could not understand what was intended.
            In which case the OR needs to make it clear right at the start, that
            * you are reviewing the Sequoia bag in general
            * it hasn't changed in 20+ years apart from different (improved) fabrics

            Can do?>>

            Yes, sir!

            Regarding Sport Wash, it remains one of the most satisfying tests I ever did for BGT. I've used it continuously for any wool or synthetic washes.

            Happy New Year, Richard

            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Caffin" <r.caffin@...> wrote:
            >
          • richardglyon
            Roger - Revised second paragraph under The Product: ... Let me know if this meets your concern. Cheers, Richard
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 3, 2011
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              Roger -

              Revised second paragraph under "The Product:"

              ----Today the Sequoia is available in two fabrics: Gore Windstopper™ (GWS) or MicroLite XP™ Microfiber (MF). My Sequoia, which I purchased circa 1990, uses nylon taffeta fabric. Though the fabrics have changed (neither of the current fabrics existed in 1990, though Western Mountaineering did offer the bag with then-state-of-the-art waterproof/breathable shells), the Sequoia's design has remained unchanged over the years, and today's buyer will receive pretty much what I received, except for the latest in fabrics. ----

              Let me know if this meets your concern.

              Cheers, Richard

              --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Caffin" <r.caffin@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > In which case the OR needs to make it clear right at the start, that
              > * you are reviewing the Sequoia bag in general
              > * it hasn't changed in 20+ years apart from different (improved) fabrics
              >
              > Can do?
              >

              >
            • Roger Caffin
              Re: EDIT - Western Mountaineering Sequoia sleeping bag - Lyon Hi Richard Amazing - a product which has not been replaced by a totally new model every 12 months
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 5, 2011
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                Re: EDIT - Western Mountaineering Sequoia sleeping bag - Lyon

                Hi Richard

                Amazing - a product which has not been replaced by a totally new model every
                12 months (like shoes). OK, I understand now, but whether every casual
                reader would understand immediately remains a bit of a concern. I am aiming
                for perfect clarity, especially as you are an Editor :-)

                At the risk of being overly intrusive, I took what you wrote and added a
                couple of tweaks and shuffles to just make that section really clear to me.
                Herewith for your consideration. You will note that I have given Long and
                Regular capitals, like model names. I find that helps to make it clear that
                we are using those words as model categories rather than adjectives.

                Over to you
                Cheers
                Roger Caffin
                -------------------------------
                THE PRODUCT

                Though listed as a semi-rectangular sleeping bag, the Sequoia is a hybrid
                that incorporates some features from standard mummy and semi-rec designs.
                Here's a photo of the Sequoia next to the one mummy bag I still own, which
                illustrates the difference in shape.

                Today the Sequoia is available in two fabrics: Gore WindstopperT (GWS) or
                MicroLite XPT Microfiber (MF). My Sequoia, which I purchased circa 1990,
                uses nylon taffeta fabric. Neither of the current fabrics existed in 1990,
                though Western Mountaineering did offer the bag with then-state-of-the-art
                waterproof/breathable shells. So while the fabrics have changed over the
                years, the Sequoia's design has remained unchanged over the years, and
                today's buyer will receive pretty much what I received, except for the
                latest in fabrics.

                My bag is Western Mountaineering's standard Long size, at 6 feet 6 inches
                (1.98 m); the Sequoia is also available in a size Regular at 6 feet (1.83
                m). When I purchased mine it was rated to 5 F (-15 C); today the Sequoia may
                be ordered at that rating or at -15 F (-26 C), in either fabric. Listed
                data below are for the 5 F/-15 C Long versions.
              • richardglyon
                Roger, This is why we have editors, to clarify what s obvious to the writer but not so plain to the reader. Except for using over the years twice in the same
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 6, 2011
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                  Roger,

                  This is why we have editors, to clarify what's obvious to the writer but not so plain to the reader. Except for using "over the years" twice in the same sentence I'll go with what you wrote, and I now see why you were concerned.

                  You're right about how unusual it is that WM hasn't made cosmetic changes as "new models." I believe its only changes in its line of sleeping bags in the past twenty years have been to add its ultralight bags, to add the Bristlecone, and for some reason to rename the Aspen as the Alder.

                  Cheers, Richard

                  --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Caffin" <r.caffin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Re: EDIT - Western Mountaineering Sequoia sleeping bag - Lyon
                  >
                  > Hi Richard
                  >
                  > Amazing - a product which has not been replaced by a totally new model every
                  > 12 months (like shoes). OK, I understand now, but whether every casual
                  > reader would understand immediately remains a bit of a concern. I am aiming
                  > for perfect clarity, especially as you are an Editor :-)
                  >
                  > At the risk of being overly intrusive, I took what you wrote and added a
                  > couple of tweaks and shuffles to just make that section really clear to me.
                  > Herewith for your consideration. You will note that I have given Long and
                  > Regular capitals, like model names. I find that helps to make it clear that
                  > we are using those words as model categories rather than adjectives.
                  >
                  > Over to you
                  > Cheers
                  > Roger Caffin
                  > -------------------------------
                  >
                  >
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