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EDIT: OR - Book Norman Clyde - David Wilkes

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  • Andrew Buskov
    David, here are your edits. As usual; EDIT: Change Me Edit: think about changing me Comment: Everything else I m curious why your HTML and text versions
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 5, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      David, here are your edits.
      As usual;
      EDIT: Change Me
      Edit: think about changing me
      Comment: Everything else

      I'm curious why your HTML and text versions differ? Did you not post the
      latest text version to the list? Please repost for additional edits.

      AB

      > Publisher's Website:www.heydaybooks.com www.yosemite.org
      EDIT: Please remove the yosemite.org link as this is not the publishers
      site.

      > Product Description:
      > Soft cover book measuring about ?x?x? The book is a biography of the
      EDIT: In your html, there is a missing . after the dimensions.

      > including a story of as a young hiker he came across his camp and received
      a
      > few words of wisdom from the legend
      EDIT: This sentence doesn't make sense. Please rephrase

      > After hiking the trail and seeing the
      > surrounding country with its vast rugged and sometimes plush mountain
      > ridges, bordering such arid desert valleys fascinated and intrigued me.
      Edit: This sentence reads weird. It doesn't really make sense.

      EDIT: I'd really like to hear more about the book itself. Your report
      doesn't really convey what the book is about or even who Norman Clyde really
      was. In a number of paragraphs you discuss conversations that you had with
      your father-in-law about Norman Clyde, or about your experiences reading the
      book. One paragraph, you even talk about the area that you've hiked that is
      referenced in the book, but only one paragraph do you really describe Norman
      Clyde; the second paragraph talking about his ability to carry heavy packs,
      read Latin & Greek, and his numerous first ascents. You really need more
      content about the book; or better, what the book is about.
    • amatbrewer
      Andrew, Sorry about this one, probably the worst OR I have written since my first! I don t know what I was thinking. It may be a few more days before I am able
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 10, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Andrew,
        Sorry about this one, probably the worst OR I have written since my first! I don't know what I was thinking.
        It may be a few more days before I am able to put the necessary time into fixing it.
        As for the HTML and text not matching?!?! I don't know what I did. Maybe I need to hold off "testing" the platypreserve until after I have finished writing my reports. <g>

        Dave

        --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Buskov" <rescue@...> wrote:
        >
        > David, here are your edits.
        > As usual;
        > EDIT: Change Me
        > Edit: think about changing me
        > Comment: Everything else
        >
        > I'm curious why your HTML and text versions differ? Did you not post the
        > latest text version to the list? Please repost for additional edits.
        >
        > AB
        >
        > > Publisher's Website:www.heydaybooks.com www.yosemite.org
        > EDIT: Please remove the yosemite.org link as this is not the publishers
        > site.
        >
        > > Product Description:
        > > Soft cover book measuring about ?x?x? The book is a biography of the
        > EDIT: In your html, there is a missing . after the dimensions.
        >
        > > including a story of as a young hiker he came across his camp and received
        > a
        > > few words of wisdom from the legend
        > EDIT: This sentence doesn't make sense. Please rephrase
        >
        > > After hiking the trail and seeing the
        > > surrounding country with its vast rugged and sometimes plush mountain
        > > ridges, bordering such arid desert valleys fascinated and intrigued me.
        > Edit: This sentence reads weird. It doesn't really make sense.
        >
        > EDIT: I'd really like to hear more about the book itself. Your report
        > doesn't really convey what the book is about or even who Norman Clyde really
        > was. In a number of paragraphs you discuss conversations that you had with
        > your father-in-law about Norman Clyde, or about your experiences reading the
        > book. One paragraph, you even talk about the area that you've hiked that is
        > referenced in the book, but only one paragraph do you really describe Norman
        > Clyde; the second paragraph talking about his ability to carry heavy packs,
        > read Latin & Greek, and his numerous first ascents. You really need more
        > content about the book; or better, what the book is about.
        >
      • amatbrewer
        Andrew, Sorry this has taken so long, I don t know what it is about this OR, I seem to have had a mental block on this one. I have worked on it 5-6 times and
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 18, 2009
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          Andrew,
          Sorry this has taken so long, I don't know what it is about this OR, I seem to have had a mental block on this one. I have worked on it 5-6 times and just not gotten far. I finally sat down this evening to wrap it up and instead ended up crawling around in the mud under my house trying to fix a broken pipe (the joy of owning a home!). Tired and dirty I vowed to get this resubmitted before going to bed.
          You can find the HTML in the OR folder at http://tinyurl.com/ojazaz

          Thanks,
          Dave


          Owner Review by David Wilkes
          Norman Clyde
          Mountaineer of California's Sierra Nevada
          July 27 2008

          Reviewer Information

          Name: David Wilkes

          E-Mail: amatbrewer@...

          Age: 42

          Location: Yakima Washington USA

          Gender: M

          Height: 5' 11" (1.80 m)

          Weight: 197 lb (89.40 kg)


          Biography:
          I started backpacking in 1995 when I moved to Washington State. Since then, I have backpacked in all seasons and conditions. I have usually only managed time for 1-3 trips a year averaging 2-5 days, and as many day hikes as I can. I am currently getting into condition to summit some of the higher peaks in Washington, Oregon, and California. I prefer trips on rugged trails with plenty of elevation gain. While I continuously strive to lighten my load, comfort and safety are most important to me. My current pack is around 30 lbs (14 kg), not including consumables.
          Product Information

          Publisher: Heyday Books, Berkeley, California (in collaboration with the Yosemite Association) 2008

          Publisher:
          Robert C. Pavlik

          Year:
          2008

          Publisher's Website: www.heydaybooks.com

          MSRP: US$14.99
          ISBN: 978-1-59714-110-9
          Measured Weight: 259 g (9.2 oz)

          Product Description:
          Soft cover book measuring about 6x9x0.5 in (15x23x1 cm).
          The book is a biography of the legendary mountaineer Norman Clyde. About 114 pages, with 7 pages of Forward/Introduction, two pages of maps, 8 pages of photos (12 photos), and another 30 pages of Timeline, End Notes, Bibliography, Index Acknowledgments, and a short "About the Author".

          Image courtesy of www.heydaybooks.com

          Review

          Over the years, my father-in-law (Dick) has told me some of what he knows of Norman Clyde, including a story about how he once met Norman while backpacking (he did not realize who it was until later) and received a few words of wisdom from the legend (`carry your pack higher and take smaller steps'). From the few tidbits of information I have picked up, I had grown the impression of Clyde as an antisocial loner who shunned people. This book provided me a far more complete (and hopefully more accurate) view of who Norman Clyde was and how he spent a large portion of his life. While the book covers Clyde's entire life, its primary focus is on his exploits, accomplishments, and (for lack of a better term) adventures after discovering the Eastern Sierras.

          "The pack that walks like a man"
          One simply has to admire someone who wanders the High Sierras, with a 70+ lb (32 kg) canvas pack (including an anvil to fix his boots) for months at a time, reading the classics in their original Greek and Latin, and achieving over 130 first accents. Not to mention his legendary ability to locate lost and/or injured (sometimes dead) climbers and hikers.

          A few years ago Dick arraigned for a few of us to accompany him on a hike of his all time favorite trail, from South Lake to Bishop Pass (in California's Eastern Sierra's). After area for myself, the eastern sierras have become my gold standard as to what I love the most about hiking. It made me curious about the famous (sometimes-infamous) man who fell in love with the area and chose to spend the majority of his life traversing the region. Therefore, while on a recent trip to the area to do some more hiking with Dick, I entered a bookstore and found this book on the shelf, I immediately purchased two copies (one for me and one for Dick).

          From the first page of this way too short biography I was hooked and could hardly put the book down. I found the book a quick and easy read, and I reached end far too soon. I found the writing to be easy to follow and a pleasure to read. I will not go into too much detail, but more than a few passages had me sitting with my jaw hanging, or laughing aloud. And while reading it, more than a few times I vowed to reread the book to highlight some of the more fascinating and profound passages. I found it amusing how Dick and I were both reading our individual copies in the cabin we were staying at on the trip, and periodically one of us would say something like "did you get to where he…" or "can you believe he…" or simply "wait till you get to the part about…you will die!". While and after reading this book I have been longing to return to the area and do more hiking, however since it is a 15hr drive for me…I suspect I will not get there near as often as I would like. And so, for the time being I must be content with viewing it vicariously through the eyes of the people like Clyde and Muir. And while I doubt I could ever give up my current life so that I could spend months in the back country like he did, I do often fantasize about it.

          If there is anything I can find at fault in the book is that by the end I realized that while I learned quite a bit about who the legend Norman Clyde is, I never seemed to get a real sense that I understood who the MAN was. The book seemed to provide all too brief glimpses into his personality and underlying motivations, but it felt like I was seeing him through a keyhole. As a result, it left me feeling a bit disappointed and eager to learn more about who the man Norman Clyde really was. However, to be fair, it is entirely possible that the depth of information about his personality and motivations I desire may just not be available.

          The book opens with a brief description of Norman's family, his birth in Philadelphia (1885), and early life. It goes on to describe his education and pursuit of knowledge as well as his extracurricular activities, including football exploring caves and hiking. The author outlines some parallels between Clyde and the man he is often compared to John Muir. The first chapter concludes with Norman's marriage to Winifred May Bolster, and her subsequent death from TB only 4 years after they were married.

          The second chapter covers Clyde's early exploits (1910-1924). Besides a long list of firsts and records, I found his record breaking assent of Mt Shasta (14,161 ft / 4316 m) in just over 3 hours, and then two days later doing it again in just under 2 hours most interesting due to my own failed effort to summit the mountain (I spent 3 days trying).

          Chapter 3 includes the story about him that I have heard the most. That incident ended his carrier as a school principal. It involves him firing a gun at, or over, some students (depends on whose story you believe) on Halloween night 1928, while Clyde was attempting to protect the school from vandalism. Prior to this event he did most of his explorations of the mountains during the summer break, weekends and holidays. Prior to reading this book I had been told that after this event he simply went into the mountains and spent most of his time there, but this was misleading information. During this time he did spend much of his life in the wilderness, he was also earning his keep as a guide and by publishing his writings. He was also an active member of the Sierra Club writing articles, participating in as well as guiding climbs, and giving lectures. Despite his reputation with many he was held in high regard by those who he guided and fellow climbers.

          The book goes on to describe Clyde's many accomplishments as well as some seemingly inconsistencies in his personality such as his reputation for a volatile temper yet him being a effective and seemingly compassionate guide, as well as his voracious appetite and inconstant hygiene (he was known in some circles as "Filthy McNasty").

          I highly recommend this book, and suggest it as a wonderful read, especially while in camp (even better if that camp is high in the eastern Sierra Mountains).
        • Andrew Buskov
          David, here are your edits. As usual; EDIT: Change Me Edit: Think about changing me Comment: Everything else I think you re still having a few problems
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 22, 2009
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            David, here are your edits. As usual;

            EDIT: Change Me
            Edit: Think about changing me
            Comment: Everything else

            I think you're still having a few problems actually writing about the book
            rather than the experiences you've had while packing the book. The last part
            of your OR was spot on with good information and a good flow. However, the
            beginning is filled with hearsay and stories about your hiking rather than
            the book itself.

            Treat the book like you would a shoe, or a hiking pole. What makes someone
            want to buy a hiking pole? It's not how you felt, or what you did with the
            hiking pole on your trips. It is how the hiking pole functioned and what it
            will do for them on their trips.

            Make sense?
            Please revise and upload again. You're almost there, but just a bit more.

            AB

            > Publisher's Website: www.heydaybooks.com
            EDIT: HTML version still lists the yosemite.org link. Please remove



            > Over the years, my father-in-law (Dick) has told me some of what he
            > knows of Norman Clyde, including a story about how he once met Norman
            > while backpacking (he did not realize who it was until later) and
            > received a few words of wisdom from the legend (`carry your pack higher
            > and take smaller steps'). From the few tidbits of information I have
            > picked up, I had grown the impression of Clyde as an antisocial loner
            > who shunned people. This book provided me a far more complete (and
            > hopefully more accurate) view of who Norman Clyde was and how he spent
            > a large portion of his life. While the book covers Clyde's entire life,
            > its primary focus is on his exploits, accomplishments, and (for lack of
            > a better term) adventures after discovering the Eastern Sierras.
            >
            > "The pack that walks like a man"
            > One simply has to admire someone who wanders the High Sierras, with a
            > 70+ lb (32 kg) canvas pack (including an anvil to fix his boots) for
            > months at a time, reading the classics in their original Greek and
            > Latin, and achieving over 130 first accents. Not to mention his
            > legendary ability to locate lost and/or injured (sometimes dead)
            > climbers and hikers.
            >
            > A few years ago Dick arraigned for a few of us to accompany him on a
            > hike of his all time favorite trail, from South Lake to Bishop Pass (in
            > California's Eastern Sierra's). After area for myself, the eastern
            > sierras have become my gold standard as to what I love the most about
            > hiking. It made me curious about the famous (sometimes-infamous) man
            > who fell in love with the area and chose to spend the majority of his
            > life traversing the region. Therefore, while on a recent trip to the
            > area to do some more hiking with Dick, I entered a bookstore and found
            > this book on the shelf, I immediately purchased two copies (one for me
            > and one for Dick).
            >
            EDIT: These first 3 paragraphs don't describe the book at all. The barely
            mention who Norman Clyde was. Only the second paragraph even has solid
            facts, the other two paragraphs are stories and hearsay. Please revise
            and/or cut these paragraphs.

            > From the first page of this way too short biography I was hooked and
            > could hardly put the book down. I found the book a quick and easy read,
            > and I reached end far too soon. I found the writing to be easy to
            > follow and a pleasure to read. I will not go into too much detail, but
            > more than a few passages had me sitting with my jaw hanging, or
            > laughing aloud. And while reading it, more than a few times I vowed to
            > reread the book to highlight some of the more fascinating and profound
            > passages. I found it amusing how Dick and I were both reading our
            > individual copies in the cabin we were staying at on the trip, and
            > periodically one of us would say something like "did you get to where
            > he." or "can you believe he." or simply "wait till you get to the part
            > about.you will die!". While and after reading this book I have been
            > longing to return to the area and do more hiking, however since it is a
            > 15hr drive for me.I suspect I will not get there near as often as I
            > would like. And so, for the time being I must be content with viewing
            > it vicariously through the eyes of the people like Clyde and Muir. And
            > while I doubt I could ever give up my current life so that I could
            > spend months in the back country like he did, I do often fantasize
            > about it.
            EDIT: Still you have almost no information in the book. Of this entire
            paragraph, the only thing relevant to the review is how you felt reading the
            book; whether it made you happy, sad, etc. The rest is story about where you
            live, or what your father-in-law felt about the book. Unfortunately that's
            not acceptable for the review, just as it would be acceptable to document
            how your father-in-law felt on an air mattress if you were testing one.
            Please revise and cut.

            > The book opens with a brief description of Norman's family, his birth
            > in Philadelphia (1885), and early life. It goes on to describe his
            > education and pursuit of knowledge as well as his extracurricular
            > activities, including football exploring caves and hiking. The author
            > outlines some parallels between Clyde and the man he is often compared
            > to John Muir. The first chapter concludes with Norman's marriage to
            > Winifred May Bolster, and her subsequent death from TB only 4 years
            > after they were married.
            Comment: VERY GOOD! Nice information, and flow.

            >
            > The second chapter covers Clyde's early exploits (1910-1924). Besides a
            > long list of firsts and records, I found his record breaking assent of
            > Mt Shasta (14,161 ft / 4316 m) in just over 3 hours, and then two days
            > later doing it again in just under 2 hours most interesting due to my
            > own failed effort to summit the mountain (I spent 3 days trying).
            Comment: Once again... Good info. Relating the experience to your own
            provides the reader with "ownership".
          • amatbrewer
            Andrew, I really appreciate the help on this one (and apologize profusely for submitting such a poor quality OR…not once, but twice!). Your observation
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 1, 2009
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              Andrew,

              I really appreciate the help on this one (and apologize profusely for submitting such a poor quality OR…not once, but twice!). Your observation "actually writing about the book rather than the experiences [I've] had while packing the book" was dead on. I was so caught up in my excitement about my experiences finding and reading the book, I was totally ignoring the book itself and the point of an OR.

              You can find the HTML in the OR folder at http://tinyurl.com/ojazaz

              Thanks,
              Dave


              Owner Review by David Wilkes
              Norman Clyde
              Mountaineer of California's Sierra Nevada
              July 27 2008

              Reviewer Information

              Name: David Wilkes

              E-Mail: amatbrewer@...

              Age: 42

              Location: Yakima Washington USA

              Gender: M

              Height: 5' 11" (1.80 m)

              Weight: 197 lb (89.40 kg)


              Biography:
              I started backpacking in 1995 when I moved to Washington State. Since then, I have backpacked in all seasons and conditions. I have usually only managed time for 1-3 trips a year averaging 2-5 days, and as many day hikes as I can. I am currently getting into condition to summit some of the higher peaks in Washington, Oregon, and California. I prefer trips on rugged trails with plenty of elevation gain. While I continuously strive to lighten my load, comfort and safety are most important to me. My current pack is around 30 lbs (14 kg), not including consumables.
              Product Information

              Publisher: Heyday Books, Berkeley, California (in collaboration with the Yosemite Association) 2008

              Publisher:
              Robert C. Pavlik

              Year:
              2008

              Publisher's Website: www.heydaybooks.com

              MSRP: US$14.99
              ISBN: 978-1-59714-110-9
              Measured Weight: 259 g (9.2 oz)

              Product Description:
              Soft cover book measuring about 6x9x0.5 in (15x23x1 cm).
              The book is a biography of the legendary mountaineer Norman Clyde. About 114 pages, with 7 pages of Forward/Introduction, two pages of maps, 8 pages of photos (12 photos), and another 30 pages of Timeline, End Notes, Bibliography, Index Acknowledgments, and a short "About the Author".

              Image courtesy of www.heydaybooks.com

              Review

              "The pack that walks like a man"
              One simply has to admire someone who wanders the High Sierras, with a 70+ lb (32 kg) canvas pack (including an anvil to fix his boots) for months at a time, reading the classics in their original Greek and Latin, and achieving over 130 first accents. Not to mention his legendary ability to locate lost and/or injured (sometimes dead) climbers and hikers.
              I have long been fascinated with what little bit I had heard of Norman Clyde. This book provided me with a glimpse into his fascinating life.

              From the first page of this way too short biography I was hooked and could hardly put the book down. I found the book a quick and easy read, and I reached end far too soon. I found the writing to be easy to follow and a pleasure to read. More than a few passages had me sitting with my jaw hanging, or laughing aloud. And before I even finished reading it I vowed to reread the book to highlight some of the more fascinating and profound passages.

              If there is anything I can find at fault in the book is that by the end I realized that while I learned quite a bit about who the legend Norman Clyde is, I never seemed to get a real sense that I understood who the MAN was. The book seemed to provide all too brief glimpses into his personality and underlying motivations, but it felt like I was seeing him through a keyhole. As a result, it left me feeling a bit disappointed and eager to learn more about who the man Norman Clyde really was. However, to be fair, it is entirely possible that the depth of information about his personality and motivations I desire may just not be available.

              The book opens with a brief description of Norman's family, his birth in Philadelphia (1885), and early life. It goes on to describe his education and pursuit of knowledge as well as his extracurricular activities, including football exploring caves and hiking. The author outlines some parallels between Clyde and the man he is often compared to John Muir. The first chapter concludes with Norman's marriage to Winifred May Bolster, and her subsequent death from TB only 4 years after they were married.

              The second chapter covers Clyde's early exploits (1910-1924). Besides a long list of firsts and records, I found his record breaking assent of Mt Shasta (14,161 ft / 4316 m) in just over 3 hours, and then two days later doing it again in just under 2 hours most interesting due to my own failed effort to summit the mountain (I spent 3 days trying).

              Chapter 3 includes the story about him that I have heard the most. That incident ended his carrier as a school principal. It involves him firing a gun at, or over, some students (depends on whose story you believe) on Halloween night 1928, while Clyde was attempting to protect the school from vandalism. Prior to this event he did most of his explorations of the mountains during the summer break, weekends and holidays. Prior to reading this book I had been told that after this event he simply went into the mountains and spent most of his time there, but this was misleading information. During this time he did spend much of his life in the wilderness, he was also earning his keep as a guide and by publishing his writings. He was also an active member of the Sierra Club writing articles, participating in as well as guiding climbs, and giving lectures. Despite his reputation with many he was held in high regard by those who he guided and fellow climbers.

              The book goes on to describe Clyde's many accomplishments as well as some seemingly inconsistencies in his personality such as his reputation for a volatile temper yet him being an effective and sometimes compassionate guide, as well as his voracious appetite and inconstant hygiene (he was known in some circles as "Filthy McNasty").

              The story concludes by chronicling how the aging adventurer spent the final years of his life including the unfortunate event of someone breaking into his Baker Ranch house, presumably to steal his collection of guns, and in the process of stealing his belongings and ransacking his positions, they scattered many of his writings and photographs. After being diagnosed with cancer and then later recuperating from a hernia operation, this is the scene he returned home to. He died of cancer two years later at the age of 87.

              Following the story, the book includes a time line of Norman's life and key accomplishments, extensive endnotes and a bibliography.

              I highly recommend this book, and suggest it as a wonderful read, especially while in camp (even better if that camp is high in the eastern Sierra Mountains).
            • Andrew Buskov
              David, Here are you edits. As usual; EDIT: Change Me Edit: Think about changing me Comment: Everything else This report is SO MUCH BETTER! I m very happy with
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 3, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                David,

                Here are you edits. As usual;
                EDIT: Change Me
                Edit: Think about changing me
                Comment: Everything else

                This report is SO MUCH BETTER! I'm very happy with this one and am so glad
                that you saw what I was talking about. This is the type of report that I was
                wanting. After reading your 5-fingers report, I didn't exactly know what
                happened with this one. It's difficult writing about a book as opposed to a
                piece of gear, but you made it happen and was still able to keep a bit of
                storyline in there.

                Change these edits and upload to this folder: http://tinyurl.com/l6639e

                AB


                > Mountaineer of California's Sierra Nevada
                EIDT: Extra space after "of". Please remove.

                > July 27 2008
                EDIT: Lets go ahead and change the date. It's quite a bit away from July
                now.

                >
                > E-Mail: amatbrewer@...
                Comment: Something to think about... We allow a naming convention instead of
                an email if you want. It helps keep down the spam, especially when you get
                as many reviews as some. amatbrewer (AT) yahoo (dot) net

                > Publisher:
                > Robert C. Pavlik
                EDIT: I would assume that Robert would be the author... right?
              • david wilkes
                I really appreciate your help on this one. I think I found the book version of doing a trip report rather than a gear report. Edits made and file uploaded.
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 3, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  I really appreciate your help on this one. I think I found the book version of doing a trip report rather than a gear report.

                  Edits made and file uploaded.

                  Thanks again,
                  Dave




                  ________________________________
                  From: Andrew Buskov <rescue@...>
                  To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 3:07:37 PM
                  Subject: [BackpackGearTest] EDIT: Revised OR - Book Norman Clyde - David Wilkes


                  David,

                  Here are you edits. As usual;
                  EDIT: Change Me
                  Edit: Think about changing me
                  Comment: Everything else

                  This report is SO MUCH BETTER! I'm very happy with this one and am so glad
                  that you saw what I was talking about. This is the type of report that I was
                  wanting. After reading your 5-fingers report, I didn't exactly know what
                  happened with this one. It's difficult writing about a book as opposed to a
                  piece of gear, but you made it happen and was still able to keep a bit of
                  storyline in there.

                  Change these edits and upload to this folder: http://tinyurl. com/l6639e

                  AB

                  > Mountaineer of California's Sierra Nevada
                  EIDT: Extra space after "of". Please remove.

                  > July 27 2008
                  EDIT: Lets go ahead and change the date. It's quite a bit away from July
                  now.

                  >
                  > E-Mail: amatbrewer@yahoo. net
                  Comment: Something to think about... We allow a naming convention instead of
                  an email if you want. It helps keep down the spam, especially when you get
                  as many reviews as some. amatbrewer (AT) yahoo (dot) net

                  > Publisher:
                  > Robert C. Pavlik
                  EDIT: I would assume that Robert would be the author... right?







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