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EDIT: OWNER REVIEW - Kelty Gunnison 2 Tent

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  • André Corterier
    ... Hi John, and welcome to BackpackGearTest.org. Sorry this took so long. Please understand we re all volunteers here and sometimes it takes some time until
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 5, 2008
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      > EDIT: OWNER REVIEW - Kelty Gunnison 2 Tent

      Hi John,

      and welcome to BackpackGearTest.org. Sorry this took so long. Please
      understand we're all volunteers here and sometimes it takes some time
      until someone has enough spare time to use it for editing.

      Anyway, I'm glad you decided to take the plunge! Please understand
      that here at BackpackGearTest.org we've evolved a style in which
      reports should be written which we believe is good for any number of
      reasons. Editing a report to conform to these expectations can take
      some time and usually several rounds of revisions. FYI. But having
      gone through it twice before testing gear with us means that you'll
      have a much easier time writing reports to spec from the get-go and
      gives us comfort that you're willing to put in the work required for
      good test reports.

      One more note: We tend to suggest to "Newbies" (a term of endearment)
      that the first Owner Review be written on something simple (a hat,
      pair of pants, pot, you know) rather than the more involved mainstays
      of backpacking (tent, backpack, sleeping bag). The less involved the
      item is, the easier it is to get the report into BGT form. Having
      taken a look at your posted first draft, I'm willing to Edit it as
      is, I'm just pointing this out to you - possibly you might want to
      put this one on hold and use it for your 2nd OR, and do your first OR
      on a simpler item. Your call.

      So - the edits take the following form: "EDIT" indicates something
      you need to change because of a typo or BGT policy, "Edit" indicates
      something you may want to change because it reads oddly or for other
      reasons, though the call remains yours, "Comment" indicates that I
      couldn't keep my mouth shut (again). Here goes:

      --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "johnschlafer"
      <johnschlafer@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Kelty Gunnison 2 Tent
      >
      >
      >
      > Biographical Information:
      >
      > Name: John Schlafer
      > Age: 26
      > Gender: Male
      > Height: 6'3"
      > Weight: 210lbs

      EDIT: metric conversions please (see our handy conversion utility at
      http://www.backpackgeartest.org/convert.html)

      > Email Address: John[dot]Schlafer[at]gmail[dot]com
      > Location: Indianapolis, IN USA

      EDIT: Please spell out Indiana (for ignorant foreigners like myself)

      > Date: August 19, 2008
      > Backpacking Background: I am new to backpacking. I do a long day
      hike
      > every month or so. I've done two three-day two-night trips, and I
      > backpacked 200 miles of the AT in the spring of '08.

      EDIT: conversion for the miles (320 km), please spell
      out "Appalachian Trail" (same reason)
      ;-)

      I like to hike
      > light, but I have a small gear budget. So I try to go for a nice
      balance
      > of light and inexpensive.

      > Product Information:
      >
      > Product: Kelty Gunnison 2
      >
      > Manufacturer: Kelty
      > Year of Manufacture: 2006
      >
      > Web site: www.kelty.com <http://www.kelty.com/>
      MSRP: $169.

      EDIT: USD 169, or US$ 169 please (again, for the furriners)

      My Price
      > from discount retailer: $115

      EDIT: We don't list the prices we've paid or seen available at
      retailers (unless there's no MSRP). It's not really meaningful for
      the reader who may not have access to the same retailer (even if it's
      an online shop, we're reviewing gear, not retailers)

      > Capacity: 2 person
      > Type: 3 season
      > Dimensions: 7ft 8 in x 4ft 10 in x 3 ft 4 in (234 cm x 147 cm x 102
      cm)

      Edit: I'd suggest breaking this down into height, width and length
      (the latter two aren't obvious from the description alone)

      > Stuffed Size: 7 in x 2 ft 1 in (18 cm x 64 cm)
      > Listed Weight: 5 lbs 11 oz (2.58 kg)
      > Weight as Delivered: 5 lbs 12 oz (2.82 kg)

      EDIT: please describe what's part of the weight you measured
      (guylines, stakes, stuff sack(s), etc.)

      > Product Description:
      >
      > The Kelty Gunnison is a free standing two-person rectangular dome
      tent.
      > It has two doors and two large vestibules. It use

      EDIT: uses

      two flexible aluminum
      > poles (8.45oz

      EDIT: please insert a space between the number and the unit

      each (240g)),

      EDIT: ditto

      which cross to form an X. It stakes down in
      > each of its four corners. The tent has twelve plastic clips to hold
      the
      > tent to the poles. The clips are designed so that they slip on very
      > easily, but they require a small twist to take them off. This makes
      this
      > easily to take off but hard for them to slip off accidentally.

      Edit: This statement is okay, but borders on projection. "Projection"
      is when we state something in a way which implies being true in all
      cases, when all we know is that it was true in ours. This runs
      against our policy of reporting our experience only. It's a bit
      tricky, and I may well be the most picky of editors when it comes to
      projection (you may refer to me as the projection police). Anyway,
      the way to safeguard against projection in this case might be to
      state that the clips are designed to be easy to take off but hard to
      slip off accidentally. Or, you can give us a full account of whether
      this was so for you in your experience with your particular item,
      though that's something you may wish to do further down when you get
      to your own experience.


      The poles
      > anchor to the bottom of the tent by slipping into dual purpose
      plastic
      > clips.
      >
      >
      >
      > The clips both hold the poles and act as the slots that the fly
      clips
      > into. The fly The fly has two plastic windows, one on each end of
      the
      > tent. It also has two small vents, one on each side of the tent. The
      > vents open and close with a zipper. The vents have a small, thin,
      > permanently-installed, flexible pole above them , which supports a
      small
      > flap. The pole and flap combination allow you keep the vents open
      even
      > in the rain.

      EDIT: PROJECTION! Quick, get the kids inside! (Kidding.) The
      word "you" often signifies projection. You (John) don't know whether
      the poles allow me (André) to keep the vents open even in the rain. I
      may have 10 thumbs or be stupid. Or live in a region where winds are
      so strong that rain is nearly always near-horizontal. Because you
      don't know what is true for me, refrain from stating it that way. In
      general, I've found that leaving out the word "you" entirely should
      be possible. I try to do that. In the case at hand, again - either
      state that you believe this to be the design intent, or state that
      it's allowed you to do that (in your own experience).

      The fly has 8 stake points. 6 of these are for guy
      > lines—one in each corner and two on the ends. The vestibule is
      > created by staking the fly out away from the tent with a single
      stake on
      > each side. The stake loop is a long piece of webbing looped through
      a
      > plastic slide. The long webbing and plastic slide allow you

      EDIT: ditto

      to stake the
      > fly where convenient and then pull fly taught.

      EDIT: pull *the* fly taught.

      The vestibule closes with
      > a zipper and Velcro.

      Edit: Are you sure it's "Velcro" (the trademarked item)? If so,
      that's fine. If not, we like to refer to the knock-offs as "hook and
      loop closures" (no kidding).

      The zipper ends a few inches

      EDIT: conversion, please

      before the bottom,
      > which is finally closed with a snap.
      >
      >
      >
      > When you open the vestibule,

      EDIT: I can't do that, I've never even seen the tent. ;-)

      one side rolls back and is held back by a
      > small clip. The tent doors have dual zippers. Inside the tent are
      two
      > mesh pockets. Additionally, the tent comes with a small mesh hammock
      > (.65oz (19g))

      EDIT: spaces beween units and numbers

      that ties into the top of the inside for storage. There is
      > also a hook at the top center to hang a light. The floor of the tent
      > comes pre-seam-sealed with tape.
      >
      > The tent comes with 12 straight peg stakes. The stakes are 8 inches

      EDIT: conversion please

      long
      > and weight .55 oz (17g)

      EDIT: space before "g"

      each. The tent also comes with 6 guy lines. The
      > guy lines are made of black nylon and have small plastic sliding
      clips
      > The guy lines are 6 feet

      EDIT: conversion

      long and weight

      EDIT: weigh

      .2oz(6g)

      EDIT: spaces between numbers and units and before the open parenthesis

      each. The tent comes
      > with three stuff sacks, one large that will hold all of the tent
      items.

      Edit: Are you sure that was supposed to be a sentence-ending period?
      It reads a little odd.

      > One for the poles and one the

      EDIT: that

      holds the stakes, guy lines, and mesh
      > hammock.
      >
      >
      >
      > Field Information:
      >
      > I've used the Gunnison 2 for two three day two night trips in
      > Southern Indiana and a 16 day, 200 miles hike

      EDIT: 200 mile (320 km) hike

      of the Appalachian Trail.
      > On both hikes, I shared the tent with my wife. The trails in
      Southern
      > Indiana were hilly temperate rain forest in a federal wilderness
      area
      > with few good campsites. Temperatures ranged from 20 deg. F. at
      night (
      > Celsius) to 75 deg. F.

      EDIT: conversions needed on both temperatures

      during the day. The Appalachian Trial

      Comment: Yes, I've heard it can be that hard.
      EDIT: but it's spelled "Trail"

      is
      > mountainous but well maintained trails

      Edit: how about "... is mountainous but *has* well maintained
      trails ... "

      with many excellent campsites to
      > choose from. The temperatures ranged from 40 deg. F. at night to 90
      deg.
      > F.

      EDIT: conversions needed

      during the day. On the AT,

      EDIT: Either spell it out again, or write it as "Appalachian Trail
      (AT)" once, and then you can stick with AT subsequently (again, it's
      because of all the bloody furriners that look up BGT.org and don't
      know the first thing about long-distance hiking in the US.

      we experienced rain while in the tent
      > twice.
      >
      >
      >
      > Review:

      Edit: That seems like an odd sub-heading, seeing that this whole
      thing is an Owner Review. How about sub-dividing your own experience
      into sections
      like "Setup", "Room", "Weatherrotection", "Condensation", "Bugs",
      etc. ?

      >
      > Overall, the Kelty Gunnison 2 has been an excellent tent. It is
      quick to
      > set-up, very stable, and provides excellent ventilation. I
      appreciate
      > many of the bonus features of the tent, although I do recognize that
      > they add weight, which I do not like.

      Edit: (And this is close to an EDIT) I don't know which "bonus
      features" you are talking about. This sentence might be moved further
      down into a summary or such, after you've discussed the bonus
      features in question.

      > The Gunnison is very similar in size and set-up to the Hubba Hubba
      tent
      > by MSR. In my mind it is a direct trade-off between price and
      weight.
      > The Hubba Hubba weighs approximately 1.5 pounds less, but it lists
      for
      > over $130 more, and in practice costs almost 200 more.

      EDIT: We don't do direct comparisons. You can include a much more
      general statement like "I've seen at least one tent similar in design
      weighing about 1.5 lb (680 g) less but costing about 200 USD more".

      As I always hike
      > with my wife and we are able to split the weight of the tent ( I
      take
      > the tent and fly, she takes the poles, stakes, and guy lines), the
      > weight-to-cost trade-off makes sense to me.

      Edit: How much each of these packages then weigh would be useful
      information.

      > The tent has many benefits. The set-up is a breeze. I can get the
      tent
      > set-up and the fly on with the vestibule staked in less than 5
      minutes
      > if it is raining. Because of the shape of the clips on the corners
      I can
      > usually just slip a pole into its slot without having to bend down
      and
      > be right at the corner. The adjustable webbing on the edges of the
      > vestibule make taking

      EDIT: makes staking

      the vestibule very easy. Just find a place where

      EDIT: *I* just find a place [or else it's projection again]

      > the stake goes in easy, and adjust the webbing to fit. Staking the
      > corners of the tent and setting up the guy lines takes longer.
      >
      >
      >
      > The ventilation in the tent is excellent. I've never had
      > condensation drip on me, even when we were sleeping in below
      freezing
      > temperatures. And usually, there is no condensation on the fly at
      all. I
      > attribute this to the vents at the top of the fly. Because of the
      small
      > flaps over the vent you can keep this open even when it is raining,
      > which is one time you most want to be able to clear the humidity
      from
      > your tent.

      EDIT: you can probably spot the projection issue I have with the
      preceding paragraph by yourself now. Please modify accordingly.

      One problem, though, is that the small poles that create the
      > flap are not removable. One snapped when the tent was packed,
      probably
      > because it was bent when I rolled the tent. The flap still works,
      but I
      > am afraid the broken pole will eventually rip the tent and come
      loose.
      > Had I thought this would be a problem I would have been more
      careful in
      > how I rolled the tent.
      >
      >
      >
      > The tent is a very nice size. I just fits my wife and me shoulder to
      > shoulder. We are both large. I am 6'3" 210 and she is
      > 5'11",

      EDIT: conversions please

      and we both fit comfortably, although there is no room to
      > spare. There is a few inches

      EDIT: conversion

      of room above our heads or below our feet
      > (depending on how we lay) to store a few things.

      Comment: So there is room to spare, though only a little?

      We are able to change
      > when we are both in the tent, but only one at a time. There is also
      only
      > room for one of us to sit up at a time.

      Edit: Is this because the tent ceiling slopes?

      The vestibule is plenty large to
      > store all our gear. Our packs, boots, hiking poles, and anything
      else we
      > want to keep under the vestibule fits well.
      >
      >
      >
      > The plastic windows are nice. They have not yellowed, and I really
      > appreciate the light they let in the evenings and the mornings.

      EDIT: they're letting it *in*, and are doing so *in* the evenings and
      mornings. Either you have a double "in" there, or you rephrase the
      sentence (say, to start with "In the evenings and mornings, I really
      appreciate the light they let in.").

      However,
      > I don't know if they are worth the weight.
      >
      >
      >
      > The mesh hammock works well. It stores a lot for what it is.
      Because it
      > ties on to loops that are sewn on at the same spot as hooks that
      connect
      > to the poles, you can put a lot of weight in the hammock without
      causing
      > the tent to sag.

      EDIT: This is both projection and a little unclear on what's "a lot".
      The amount of weight *I* consider to be "a lot" may have the tent
      collapes. Can you guesstimate the weight you've had in there, or give
      a brief description of the things you've stowed there?
      Comment: Any issues with this encroaching on head room?

      > The bottom of the tent is sturdy. I have never used a ground cloth,
      and
      > while I pick my camping spots carefully, I have had no problems
      with the
      > bottom tearing or getting small holes.
      >
      >
      >
      > There are a few obnoxious things about the tent. The small clips
      that
      > hold the fly and door open are not very effective. They are placed
      low
      > on the tent, and the fly and the door almost always come loose.

      Edit: I understand that they coming loose is a bother, but not what
      your issue with the placement is. Do they come loose because of the
      placement, or do feel the placement to be in a bad spot even if it
      held?

      Perhaps
      > the most obnoxious thing about the tent is the snap at the bottom
      of the
      > fly. Because it is so far out, it is difficult to reach. Even being
      > 6'3",

      EDIT: conversion

      I have to almost lay my torso on the ground to reach the
      > snap and close it. This is a particular problem when it is raining
      > because you get muddy.

      EDIT: I've never noticed getting muddy just because you were laying
      down. ;-) (Projection again, right?)


      > Summary:
      >
      > Overall this is a great tent. I would reccomend it to anyone who is
      > looking for a good weight / money trade-off in a two person tent
      > actually meant for two people.
      >
      >
      >
      > Good:
      >
      > Light weight for the money
      >
      > 2 large vestibules make this tent very practical for two large
      adults
      >
      > Great ventilation - no condensation
      >
      > Easy Setup
      >
      >
      >
      > Bad:
      >
      > Hard to snap vestibule closed from insdie tent
      EDIT: inside
      >
      > Could lose weight without adding cost
      >
      > Bad design of small rods holding open vent flaps

      Wow, that was a lot. You will hopefully note that there were really
      only three types of edits, though - typo, projection and conversion.
      So it's really not that much, it just gets amplified because tents
      make for long reviews.

      There are two more things, though, which I would like you to try:
      1) get an HTML version of the edited draft into our test folder on
      the backpackgeartest.org site
      2) include a picture (taken off the manufacturer's site if you want,
      as long as it's properly attributed) in that HTML version.

      The former is actually mandatory - you need to figure out how to
      create an HTML version in order for this to be uploaded. If you have
      trouble with that, our friendly folks at
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BGTFileUploadHelp/ are always willing
      to help - or you can request a mentor at Mentor@...,
      who may be able to help with all kinds of questions.

      The pictures is optional for a first OR, but very strongly
      recommended for the second one at least (pictures are required for
      the actual test series, so we like to have that aspect covered early).

      So -

      if you want to go forward with this version, please post an edited
      version to this list again, replacing my "EDIT:" in the heading above
      with "REPOST:", and - if at all possible - include a shortlink
      (tinyurl or snipurl) to an uploaded HTML version in the test folder.

      Also, feel free to shoot me a question directly, rather than via the
      list.

      Please understand that this is a pretty solid first draft - this may
      still seem a little overwhelming (I know I was personally a bit
      discouraged when I received my first OR Edit about four years ago),
      but it's affirmatively doable and worth the effort.

      Again, welcome - I'm looking foward to your second draft.

      André
      OR Editor
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