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QUESTION: inclusion of comparison & cost info in test reports

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  • kwpapke
    I am working on some content for my FR on the Adventure Medical Travel Wipes. I have used off-the-shelf WetOnes, etc. in the past and the Wipes I am testing
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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      I am working on some content for my FR on the Adventure Medical Travel
      Wipes. I have used off-the-shelf WetOnes, etc. in the past and the
      Wipes I am testing seem both bulky and costly in comparison to what
      you can pick up in a drugstore for $1.

      OTOH, the bylaws clearly state we are not to include product comparisons.

      I would like to include something like the following in the summary,
      and I am looking for feedback on whether it is appropriate and perhaps
      suggestions on how to re-phrase it:

      "I find that the Travel Wipes are more costly than drugstore
      varieties, and substantially more bulky, and its not clear to me that
      the additional cleaning effectiveness warrants both the larger space
      and weight in my pack and the additional cost."

      Thanks in advance for your help.

      --Kurt
    • Mark McLauchlin
      I ll be watching this one Kurt, I have the same thoughts. My comparison would be to baby wipes, also very effective. They are rather big wipes, Cheers _____
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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        I'll be watching this one Kurt, I have the same thoughts.



        My comparison would be to baby wipes, also very effective.



        They are rather big wipes,



        Cheers



        _____

        From: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kwpapke
        Sent: Friday, 6 June 2008 10:01 PM
        To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [BackpackGearTest] QUESTION: inclusion of comparison & cost info in
        test reports



        I am working on some content for my FR on the Adventure Medical Travel
        Wipes. I have used off-the-shelf WetOnes, etc. in the past and the
        Wipes I am testing seem both bulky and costly in comparison to what
        you can pick up in a drugstore for $1.

        OTOH, the bylaws clearly state we are not to include product comparisons.

        I would like to include something like the following in the summary,
        and I am looking for feedback on whether it is appropriate and perhaps
        suggestions on how to re-phrase it:

        "I find that the Travel Wipes are more costly than drugstore
        varieties, and substantially more bulky, and its not clear to me that
        the additional cleaning effectiveness warrants both the larger space
        and weight in my pack and the additional cost."

        Thanks in advance for your help.

        --Kurt





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Greg
        Hey Guys, It might not mean much since I m new, but I ve got an opinion. Agreed, the ByLaws state not to point to product comparisions. However, in the summary
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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          Hey Guys,

          It might not mean much since I'm new, but I've got an opinion.

          Agreed, the ByLaws state not to point to product comparisions.
          However, in the summary that you've worded up Kurt you don't actually
          make any comparisions to anything specific - you make a general
          observation about a product that you have experiences with. It would
          probably not be appropriate to say you prefer WetOnes or what have
          you, but you are stating a general conclusion in your report that you
          don't see a huge advantage to this specialty product. To me, that
          certainly has a place and I personally like how you worded it.

          I am looking at it from the perspective of myself as somebody reading
          a report trying to decide whether or not to buy something. If I read
          your report and you say that in your opinion there isn't much
          advantage of these wipes compared to something I could get from the
          drug store I would find that to be valuable information.

          If I may, I'd actually like to quote Ray's recent OR on his MSR
          DromLite (Message No. 75865):
          "I tried to use the DromLite as a hydration bladder using the Hands
          Free Kit but did not care for it. Purpose made bladders work much
          better."
          That is certainly an observation of his, and he does say he prefers
          something else without making a direct comparision - which is what I
          see when I read your statement.

          Obviously I have no authority and have no say in it, but I fully
          support you having that in there. It is NOT a
          direct product comparison and it is a valuable observation.

          Greg M

          --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Mark McLauchlin" <mark@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I'll be watching this one Kurt, I have the same thoughts.
          > My comparison would be to baby wipes, also very effective.
          > They are rather big wipes,
          > Cheers
          _____
          >
          > From: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kwpapke
          > Sent: Friday, 6 June 2008 10:01 PM
          >
          > I am working on some content for my FR on the Adventure Medical
          Travel
          > Wipes. I have used off-the-shelf WetOnes, etc. in the past and the
          > Wipes I am testing seem both bulky and costly in comparison to what
          > you can pick up in a drugstore for $1.
          >
          > OTOH, the bylaws clearly state we are not to include product
          comparisons.
          >
          > I would like to include something like the following in the summary,
          > and I am looking for feedback on whether it is appropriate and
          perhaps
          > suggestions on how to re-phrase it:
          >
          > "I find that the Travel Wipes are more costly than drugstore
          > varieties, and substantially more bulky, and its not clear to me
          that
          > the additional cleaning effectiveness warrants both the larger space
          > and weight in my pack and the additional cost."
          >
          > Thanks in advance for your help.
          >
          > --Kurt
        • rayestrella1
          ... ... But there is a difference between reviews and reports. A review is of something that we purchased and therefore can complain or not about the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gdm320@...> wrote:
            >
            > However, in the summary that you've worded up Kurt you don't
            > actually make any comparisons to anything specific - you make a
            > general observation about a product that you have experiences with.
            <snip>
            > If I may, I'd actually like to quote Ray's recent OR on his MSR
            > DromLite (Message No. 75865): "I tried to use the DromLite as a
            > hydration bladder using the Hands Free Kit but did not care for it.
            > Purpose made bladders work much better." That is certainly an
            > observation of his, and he does say he prefers something else
            > without making a direct comparison.


            But there is a difference between reviews and reports. A review is of
            something that we purchased and therefore can complain or not about
            the price. A test item is something we are given and are supposed to
            be looking at how they perform in their stated use. While I feel the
            remark about the space they take up is something that should be
            addressed, I personally would not go into whether it is over-priced
            or not when I did not pay for it.

            That is just my take on it, not an official statement by any means.

            Ray
          • pamwyant
            Kurt your comments seem appropriate. As pointed out, what we want to avoid is a shoot-out style review between product A & product B. Your comments avoid
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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              Kurt your comments seem appropriate. As pointed out, what we want to
              avoid is a 'shoot-out' style review between product A & product B.
              Your comments avoid that, and relay your opinion in a fair way.
              Nothing wrong with that.

              Had you said the Travel Wipes aren't any better than Wet Ones or
              Huggies Baby Wipes, that would not have been acceptable. Hope that
              makes sense.

              Pam

              --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "kwpapke" <kwpapke@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I am working on some content for my FR on the Adventure Medical
              Travel
              > Wipes. I have used off-the-shelf WetOnes, etc. in the past and the
              > Wipes I am testing seem both bulky and costly in comparison to what
              > you can pick up in a drugstore for $1.
              >
              > OTOH, the bylaws clearly state we are not to include product
              comparisons.
              >
              > I would like to include something like the following in the summary,
              > and I am looking for feedback on whether it is appropriate and
              perhaps
              > suggestions on how to re-phrase it:
              >
              > "I find that the Travel Wipes are more costly than drugstore
              > varieties, and substantially more bulky, and its not clear to me
              that
              > the additional cleaning effectiveness warrants both the larger space
              > and weight in my pack and the additional cost."
              >
              > Thanks in advance for your help.
              >
              > --Kurt
              >
            • Greg
              ... I see your point. I it comes down to how the comparison is drawn. I do remember seeing an actual Test Series for a knife (I cannot recall the exact one, I
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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                --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "rayestrella1"
                > But there is a difference between reviews and reports. A review is of
                > something that we purchased and therefore can complain or not about
                > the price. A test item is something we are given and are supposed to
                > be looking at how they perform in their stated use. While I feel the
                > remark about the space they take up is something that should be
                > addressed, I personally would not go into whether it is over-priced
                > or not when I did not pay for it.

                I see your point. I it comes down to how the comparison is drawn. I do
                remember seeing an actual Test Series for a knife (I cannot recall the
                exact one, I will have to go searching) that mentioned the knife being
                a pricey for it's performance. I'm interested to see the response
                because this is obviously a gray area in my understanding too.

                Edit: I see I was thinking along the same lines as Pam here.

                Greg M
              • amatbrewer
                ... of ... about ... to ... the ... priced ... I would like to see some clarification on this point. I have hesitated referencing the overall value for the
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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                  > But there is a difference between reviews and reports. A review is
                  of
                  > something that we purchased and therefore can complain or not
                  about
                  > the price. A test item is something we are given and are supposed
                  to
                  > be looking at how they perform in their stated use. While I feel
                  the
                  > remark about the space they take up is something that should be
                  > addressed, I personally would not go into whether it is over-
                  priced
                  > or not when I did not pay for it.

                  I would like to see some clarification on this point. I have
                  hesitated referencing the overall value for the cost, but we do put
                  the MSRP in the report, and I personally think this is an important
                  piece of information to consider before purchasing any item (even if
                  it is subjective). I can admit that I have purchased items that may
                  have not been the best quality, but I felt were a very good value
                  for the price. For example I once purchased a $35 bivi (no kidding)
                  with the intent that it only had to survive the one trip it was
                  purchased for. [As it turned out I used it a lot, and my kids still
                  use it… > 6 years later!]

                  Dave
                • pamwyant
                  Disclaimer: This is not an official opinion, just my own personal opinion. As you state, value is very subjective. What is a great value for one person may
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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                    Disclaimer: This is not an official opinion, just my own personal
                    opinion.

                    As you state, value is very subjective. What is a great value for
                    one person may not be a good value for another, given different
                    financial situations and even different amounts of time individuals
                    are able to spend in the outdoors.

                    What I would personally do is avoid referencing value. If you really
                    felt something was an exceptional value, then it might be okay to say
                    that, and say why you feel that way. I would really avoid saying
                    something was not a good value for the money unless it fails or you
                    have extensively used products that perform the same for the same
                    price. Even then, I would recommend saying the product was not a
                    good value for *you*, as the reviewer does in the case of the wipes.

                    Pam

                    --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "amatbrewer"
                    <amatbrewer@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >

                    >
                    > I would like to see some clarification on this point. I have
                    > hesitated referencing the overall value for the cost, but we do put
                    > the MSRP in the report, and I personally think this is an important
                    > piece of information to consider before purchasing any item (even
                    if
                    > it is subjective). I can admit that I have purchased items that may
                    > have not been the best quality, but I felt were a very good value
                    > for the price. For example I once purchased a $35 bivi (no kidding)
                    > with the intent that it only had to survive the one trip it was
                    > purchased for. [As it turned out I used it a lot, and my kids still
                    > use it… > 6 years later!]
                    >
                    > Dave
                    >
                  • David Wilkes
                    Good point. Thanks! Dave Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular ... From: pamwyant Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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                      Good point.
                      Thanks!

                      Dave
                      Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: "pamwyant" <pamwyant@...>

                      Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:34:28
                      To:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: QUESTION: inclusion of comparison & cost info in test reports


                      Disclaimer: This is not an official opinion, just my own personal
                      opinion.

                      As you state, value is very subjective. What is a great value for
                      one person may not be a good value for another, given different
                      financial situations and even different amounts of time individuals
                      are able to spend in the outdoors.

                      What I would personally do is avoid referencing value. If you really
                      felt something was an exceptional value, then it might be okay to say
                      that, and say why you feel that way. I would really avoid saying
                      something was not a good value for the money unless it fails or you
                      have extensively used products that perform the same for the same
                      price. Even then, I would recommend saying the product was not a
                      good value for *you*, as the reviewer does in the case of the wipes.

                      Pam

                      --- In BackpackGearTest@ <mailto:BackpackGearTest%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com, "amatbrewer"
                      <amatbrewer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >

                      >
                      > I would like to see some clarification on this point. I have
                      > hesitated referencing the overall value for the cost, but we do put
                      > the MSRP in the report, and I personally think this is an important
                      > piece of information to consider before purchasing any item (even
                      if
                      > it is subjective). I can admit that I have purchased items that may
                      > have not been the best quality, but I felt were a very good value
                      > for the price. For example I once purchased a $35 bivi (no kidding)
                      > with the intent that it only had to survive the one trip it was
                      > purchased for. [As it turned out I used it a lot, and my kids still
                      > use it… > 6 years later!]
                      >
                      > Dave
                      >
                    • Mark McLauchlin
                      Thanks to all, Seems to have cleared that up nicely, Posting here is like Christmas morning, when you are in Australia, send a message at night and wake up and
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 6, 2008
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                        Thanks to all, Seems to have cleared that up nicely,

                        Posting here is like Christmas morning, when you are in Australia, send a
                        message at night and wake up and there are a whole heap of replies.

                        Don't you guys get sick of being on the wrong side of the world :)

                        Cheers

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Wilkes
                        Sent: Saturday, 7 June 2008 4:39 AM
                        To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Re: QUESTION: inclusion of comparison & cost
                        info in test reports

                        Good point.
                        Thanks!

                        Dave
                        Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device from U.S. Cellular

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: "pamwyant" <pamwyant@...>

                        Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:34:28
                        To:BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: QUESTION: inclusion of comparison & cost
                        info in test reports


                        Disclaimer: This is not an official opinion, just my own personal
                        opinion.

                        As you state, value is very subjective. What is a great value for
                        one person may not be a good value for another, given different
                        financial situations and even different amounts of time individuals
                        are able to spend in the outdoors.

                        What I would personally do is avoid referencing value. If you really
                        felt something was an exceptional value, then it might be okay to say
                        that, and say why you feel that way. I would really avoid saying
                        something was not a good value for the money unless it fails or you
                        have extensively used products that perform the same for the same
                        price. Even then, I would recommend saying the product was not a
                        good value for *you*, as the reviewer does in the case of the wipes.

                        Pam

                        --- In BackpackGearTest@ <mailto:BackpackGearTest%40yahoogroups.com>
                        yahoogroups.com, "amatbrewer"
                        <amatbrewer@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >

                        >
                        > I would like to see some clarification on this point. I have
                        > hesitated referencing the overall value for the cost, but we do put
                        > the MSRP in the report, and I personally think this is an important
                        > piece of information to consider before purchasing any item (even
                        if
                        > it is subjective). I can admit that I have purchased items that may
                        > have not been the best quality, but I felt were a very good value
                        > for the price. For example I once purchased a $35 bivi (no kidding)
                        > with the intent that it only had to survive the one trip it was
                        > purchased for. [As it turned out I used it a lot, and my kids still
                        > use it. > 6 years later!]
                        >
                        > Dave
                        >


                        ------------------------------------

                        To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/Yahoo!
                        Groups Links
                      • Roger Caffin
                        ... The first rule here is that we don t do Product A vs Product B shootouts. It gets the suppliers all snarky. That s a definite rule. However, if you think
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 7, 2008
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                          >I find that the Travel Wipes are more costly than drugstore
                          > varieties, and substantially more bulky, and its not clear to me that
                          > the additional cleaning effectiveness warrants both the larger space
                          > and weight in my pack and the additional cost."

                          The first rule here is that we don't do Product A vs Product B shootouts. It
                          gets the suppliers all snarky. That's a definite rule.

                          However, if you think you have enough experience of the market that you can
                          make a comparison of Product A against the field, that is usually fair game,
                          as long as you give fair and honest reasons for your comments. We are not
                          here just to sing unmitigated praise for every product tested.

                          A good rule here is to ask yourself whether your comments would help a
                          novice seeking honest information about Product A. The comparisons you have
                          made are quite general but will assist the reader.

                          I see no difference between price, weight and bulk in comparisons. All
                          matter to the reader.

                          My 2c.

                          Cheers
                          Roger
                        • André Corterier
                          ... wrote: ... Yes. But usually by the time that happens, our vacation time is over and we get to come back here. ... André
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 9, 2008
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                            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Mark McLauchlin" <mark@...>
                            wrote:
                            <snip>
                            > Don't you guys get sick of being on the wrong side of the world :)
                            >
                            > Cheers

                            Yes. But usually by the time that happens, our vacation time is over
                            and we get to come back here.
                            :-P
                            André
                          • Andrew Priest
                            Hi Kurt This is your official repsonse. It sounds good to me. Regards Andrew ... -- Senior Edit Moderator [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 10, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Kurt

                              This is your official repsonse. It sounds good to me.

                              Regards
                              Andrew

                              2008/6/6 kwpapke <kwpapke@...>:

                              > I am working on some content for my FR on the Adventure Medical Travel
                              > Wipes. I have used off-the-shelf WetOnes, etc. in the past and the
                              > Wipes I am testing seem both bulky and costly in comparison to what
                              > you can pick up in a drugstore for $1.
                              >
                              > OTOH, the bylaws clearly state we are not to include product comparisons.
                              >
                              > I would like to include something like the following in the summary,
                              > and I am looking for feedback on whether it is appropriate and perhaps
                              > suggestions on how to re-phrase it:
                              >
                              > "I find that the Travel Wipes are more costly than drugstore
                              > varieties, and substantially more bulky, and its not clear to me that
                              > the additional cleaning effectiveness warrants both the larger space
                              > and weight in my pack and the additional cost."
                              >
                              > Thanks in advance for your help.
                              >
                              > --Kurt
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/Yahoo!
                              > Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              --
                              Senior Edit Moderator


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • kwpapke
                              I thought the discussion from all participants was very valuable - good to get all the POV s. Thanks everyone, got what I needed. Regards, --Kurt ...
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 11, 2008
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                                I thought the discussion from all participants was very valuable -
                                good to get all the POV's. Thanks everyone, got what I needed.

                                Regards,
                                --Kurt

                                --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Priest" <apriest@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Kurt
                                >
                                > This is your official repsonse. It sounds good to me.
                                >
                                > Regards
                                > Andrew
                                >
                                > 2008/6/6 kwpapke <kwpapke@...>:
                                >
                                > > I am working on some content for my FR on the Adventure Medical Travel
                                > > Wipes. I have used off-the-shelf WetOnes, etc. in the past and the
                                > > Wipes I am testing seem both bulky and costly in comparison to what
                                > > you can pick up in a drugstore for $1.
                                > >
                                > > OTOH, the bylaws clearly state we are not to include product
                                comparisons.
                                > >
                                > > I would like to include something like the following in the summary,
                                > > and I am looking for feedback on whether it is appropriate and perhaps
                                > > suggestions on how to re-phrase it:
                                > >
                                > > "I find that the Travel Wipes are more costly than drugstore
                                > > varieties, and substantially more bulky, and its not clear to me that
                                > > the additional cleaning effectiveness warrants both the larger space
                                > > and weight in my pack and the additional cost."
                                > >
                                > > Thanks in advance for your help.
                                > >
                                > > --Kurt
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > To read our reviews, please visit
                                http://www.backpackgeartest.org/Yahoo!
                                > > Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Senior Edit Moderator
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
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