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Re: [BackpackGearTest] EDIT: OR Black Diamond Bibler Tripod Bivy - Alexander Chard

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  • Alexander Chard
    Hi Pam, Thank you for the edits will repost soon. Had to reformat my hdd. (uggg) Fortunately I am vigilant about backing up, so didn t loose much data. Thanks
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 3, 2008
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      Hi Pam,

      Thank you for the edits will repost soon. Had to reformat my hdd. (uggg) Fortunately I am vigilant about backing up, so didn't loose much data.

      Thanks again,
      Alex

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: pamwyant <pamwyant@...>
      To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:15:35 AM
      Subject: [BackpackGearTest] EDIT: OR Black Diamond Bibler Tripod Bivy - Alexander Chard

      EDIT: OR Black Diamond Bibler Tripod Bivy by Alexander Chard

      Alex,

      You have added some very good information and the organization looks
      better too, but you do have several more areas to address. Your
      edits follow the same convention as before:

      EDIT � change required
      Edit � change needed, but wording is up to you
      Comment � an idea for improvement, or merely a comment

      Once you have made the changes, please repost to this list one more
      time. You may also load your html version to the owner review test
      folder again � just delete your old version first.

      Don't get discouraged that this first owner review may take a few
      tries to get everything in order. The more complex the item, the
      more likely this is to happen, and shelters are always among the more
      complex items to review.

      I think once we get this is shape it is really going to be valuable
      to a lot of readers.

      Pam

      ************ ********* ********* ****

      LOCATION: Peterborough New Hampshire, USA

      ### Comment: In the HTML version, your city is spelled wrong, but it
      is right here. You might double check the HTML and make sure it is
      right.

      WEIGHT: 165 lb (74.80 kg)

      ### Comment: The kg should be rounded to 75.

      I have been backpacking since mid 90's, trips generally 2-10 days. I
      have backpacked in all seasons and conditions. I pack for comfort,
      shelters are usually tarp or bivy sack. Spring to fall pack weight
      about 16 lbs/7 kg, and about 2 lbs/1 kg food per day. Excursions
      include trips in the Smokey's, White Mountains, Grand Canyon, Southern
      Canada and Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I consider difficult terrain
      and adverse conditions the ingredients for interesting and memorable
      excursions.

      ### Edit: This sounds better, but is still a bit choppy. I think
      you need to add a few adjectives, like this: "I have been
      backpacking since *the* mid-90's. *My* trips *are* generally 2-10
      days. I pack for comfort, *and my* shelters are usually *a* tarp or
      bivy sack. *My* spring to fall pack weight *is about 16 lb/7 kg,
      including about 2 lb/1 kg food per day.

      Web site: http://www.bdel com

      ### EDIT: The manufacturer' s link in your HTML version is not
      clickable, and it must be.

      Date: February 19, 2008

      ### EDIT: Remove date from here, since it is already listed in the
      heading area as required.

      PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

      The Tripod Bivy is manufactured by Black Diamond Limited (BDL) and is
      one of the company's four alpine bivys. Their web site state that
      their philosophy is to "create the most innovative shelters possible,"
      and that BDL bivys are "durable and able to withstand the abuses of
      big mountain climates."

      ### EDIT: Their web site *states* (Nice change to this section!)

      The inside dimensions of the head and
      shoulder area of the vestibule measured 31(l) x 34(w) x 24(h)" (79 x
      86 x 61 cm) at the widest point and narrowing down to 13" (33 cm) wide
      the on the floor (top), while the toe box area measures 17 x 14" (43 x
      36 cm) high when staked.

      ### Edit: The first part of this is very understandable, but the
      middle part is confusing. I'm not sure if you have an extra word or
      something left out. In the last part is the toe box 17" wide? If
      so, you might add that. If not, can you explain why there are two
      measurements that "high" describes.

      The canopy body and vestibule is constructed of ToddTex, which is
      Bibler's proprietary waterproof, breathable fabric.

      ### EDIT: �canopy body and vestibule *are* constructed�

      There are two individually adjustable, dual-slider zippers. Both
      zippers measured 61" (155 cm) in length starting from the left side
      rising over the peak of the canopy, down the right side ending about a
      third the way down the canopy, one zipper for closing the ToddTex
      canopy, the other for "no-see-um netting."

      ### Edit: Since you have been using present tense to describe the
      bivy in the rest of the description, "measured" should be changed
      to "measures". It is also a little confusing as to where the zipper
      ends. From the phrase "down the right side", it makes me think it
      goes completely over the canopy and part way down the body of the
      bivy, but "ending about a third of the way down the canopy makes me
      think it ends before reaching the body of the bivy. Can you clarify
      that a bit?

      ### EDIT: �about a third *of* the way down the canopy�

      ### EDIT: As is, this is a very long sentence, so please break it up
      into two. After the above phrase, end the sentence with a period
      after canopy and start a new sentence with "One zipper *is* for
      closing�

      After the zipper curves past the vestibule and moves parallel to the
      ground, the top side of
      the zipper sewn to the ToddTex canopy, and the bottom side is sewn to
      the laminate floor and measured and 7" (18 cm) off the ground.

      ### Edit: This sentence is a little confusing � can you re-word a
      bit? I am getting the impression there is a vestibule and a canopy
      and I don't think this is the case.

      I discovered exiting and entering to be challenging due to the length
      of
      this section of the zipper. This section of the zipper measured 47"
      (119 cm) from the center of the peak down the right side of the canopy
      changing direction and then traveling 20" (51 cm) parallel to the
      ground. This section is mainly where entering and exiting challenge
      occurs.

      ### Edit: The last sentence is redundant, since you state this same
      concept earlier in the paragraph. I suggest either removing it, or
      explaining why it is challenging (i.e. `it's difficult for me to
      maneuver around the zipper OR the shape of the opening makes it
      difficult to get my legs inside, or whatever the case is that it is
      difficult.)

      Setting up the Tripod Bivy the first few times was challenging.
      According to the directions the shorter of the two vestibule poles
      must be installed first. This pole slides through a hole in the
      ToddTex area of the awning and fits into a pocket where the floor and
      ToddTex meet in the head area.

      ### Comment: You might consider adding a little more about where the
      hole and pocket are. i.e. "This pole slides through a hole in the
      top center of the Todd Tex are of the awning and fits into a pocket
      at the center rear where the floor and �.

      I found that installing this pole first from the peak of canopy area
      in the front of the bivy and insert the end into the pocket, then
      insert the other end into the grommet located on the awning prevents
      the other end from popping out of the pocket.

      ### EDIT: in both instances `insert' should be `inserting'. Also, I
      would recommend changing the end of the sentence a little,
      because `other end' appears twice. i.e. �then iserting the other
      end into the grommet located on the awning prevents the end in the
      pocket from popping out.

      Then I thread the second
      longer pole through sewn fabric openings on the left and right sides
      of the canopy. Then one at a time insert each end of longer pole into
      the grommets located outside the bivy on the floor.

      ### EDIT: Then one at a time *I* insert each end of *the* longer
      pole into�.

      Next I insert two stakes in the ground through the web loops sewn in
      at the top of the canopy floor. To finish the set up I install
      U-shaped pole which supports the toe box area into the grommets
      mounted on the floor using provided cordage, which is looped through
      two sewn reinforces openings in the toe box awning.

      ### EDIT: �I install *the* U-shaped pole�

      ### Comment: A comma after `floor' would be useful here: �into the
      grommets mounted on the floor, using provided cordage�

      ### EDIT: �which is looped through two *reinforced* sewn areas�.

      The first few times setting up and installing this pole I pulled on
      the fabric so hard that I thought for certain the ToddTex would tear.
      I contacted BDL and they assured me that the bivy would not tear.

      My past experiences with other manufactures provided stuff sacks for
      their equipment, the stuff sacks were generally too small to repack
      the product.

      ### Edit: This needs reworded a little bit for clarity. Something
      along the lines of "My past experiences with other manufacturer' s
      provided stuff sacks is that they are generally too small to repack
      the equipment.

      The stuff sack BDL provided was large enough to repack
      the bivy without struggling. Since the vestibule area is larger than
      the lower body area I fold the top over to make the widths closer to
      even. Personally, my modus operandi is to roll the stakes and poles
      inside the bivy starting at the lower end and roll the bivy toward the
      top, leaving the vestibule zipper open just a smidgen to allow air to
      escape, and then place the bivyinto stuff sack.

      ### EDIT: �then place the bivy into *the* stuff sack (need space
      between bivy and into and also add `the')

      FIELD OBSERVATIONS

      I have used the Tripod Bivy mainly from early spring to late fall, and
      occasionally in the winter. Wearing gloves during a set up is a bit
      more of a challenge. In colder weather temperatures ranging from -25�
      F (-32 C�) to 15� F (10 C�) the pole sections were difficult to
      separate. Placing the ends in the pocket and grommets, took a bit
      more time, however not especially difficult.

      ### EDIT: �.however *was* not especially difficult�

      Mid summer backpacking with evening temperatures approximately 85� F
      (30 C�) in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, White Mountains National
      Park, New Hampshire USA Algonquin Provincial Park and Awaga Canyon
      Lake Superior Provincial Park, Ontario CA. Altitudes ranged from 100
      ft (30m) to 4,000ft (1,200 m) when the humidity was high I found
      sleeping slightly uncomfortable.

      ### Your first sentence is incomplete and the second runs on. Please
      correct this. Something like "I used the bivy for a mid-summer
      backpacking *trip* with evening �. The last section can be
      corrected by separating the thoughts into two sentences. "Altitudes
      ranged from 100 ft (30 m) to 4,000 ft (1,200 m). When the humidity
      was high�

      SUMMARY

      I found the small foot print especially convenient in the White
      Mountains where level ground is sparse. I have used the Tripod Bivy on
      many trips in the past five years, including many trips in difficult
      terrain, conditions and temperatures in the White Mountains.
      Additionally wind speeds in excess of 40 mph are not uncommon in the
      Presidential range.

      ### Edit: This is really part of your field experience, not a
      summary, and should be moved there.

      You could make part of the summary something like "I find the small
      footprint convenient in many areas, such as the White Mountains,
      where level ground is sparse. You can also expand a little on this �
      how does it do in the wind � does the canopy flop around or make
      flapping noises when the wind gusts? Any other noticeable effects?

      Fantastic performance in inclement weather I encountered in the Awaga
      Canyon.

      ### Edit: Again, this is more field experience, and it should be
      moved there and expanded upon � what made the performance fantastic?
      What type of inclement weather?

      The Tripod Bivy is constructed well
      and has proven to be a high quality one man shelter. In my opinion the
      overall performance was superb.

      ### Comment � this is a good example of what should be in the summary.

      WHAT I LIKED

      Wind and waterproof
      Extra room in the vestibule area both height and width when
      compared to other bivy sacks.

      ### EDIT: you need some sort of punctuation after "vestibule area"
      to separate the last part of this comment � either an em-dash,
      parenthesis, a comma, or a semi-colon.

      Durability
      Weight savings verses a tent.

      WHAT I DID NOT LIKE

      Entry and exiting.

      ### Comment: you might add "can be difficult"

      Initial set up when new.

      WHAT I WOULD CHANGE

      Lengthen the zipper




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    • Alexander Chard
      Hi Pam, Just reposted my new and improved OR :] Thanks again for catchingall the typos and oversights. My goal is that the text should stand alonewithout
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 4, 2008
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        Hi Pam,

        Just reposted my "new and improved" OR :] Thanks again for catchingall the typos and oversights. My goal is that the text should stand alonewithout photos. Currently the bivy is out for a minor repair, however when returned, Iwill include photos with the final edit.

        There are a couple of requested edits which I wanted you to know that I am not ignoring, however I am
        at a total loss as how to clarify any further. I hope the following format assists you in editing. Looking forward to the next round of edits.

        Take care
        Alex


        After thezipper curves past the vestibule and moves parallel to the
        ground,the top side of the zipper sewn to the ToddTex canopy, and the bottom side issewn to
        thelaminate floor and measured and 7" (18 cm) off the ground.

        ### Edit:This sentence is a little confusing � can you re-word a
        bit? I amgetting the impression there is a vestibule and a canopy
        and Idon't think this is the case.

        Changed �canopy� to
        �vestibule� Hope this helps to clarify? Otherwise your impression isprecise, accurate, perfect, spot on. There is a canopy and a vestibule, please refer to the photos of the TripodBivy on the BDL web site and notice the black trim attached to the vestibule. Thisis what I am referring to as the �canopy.� There is a point on the right side where the vestibule, ToddTex canopy morfs into ToddTex body over the leg area where the the top and bottom sides of the zipper are sewn into the ToddTex and floor. I do not have any idea how to clarify further? (uggggg)

        There aretwo individually adjustable, dual-slider zippers. Both
        zippersmeasured 61" (155 cm) in length starting from the left side
        risingover the peak of the canopy, down the right side ending about a
        third theway down the canopy, one zipper for closing the ToddTex
        canopy,the other for "no-see-um netting."

        ###Edit: Since you have been using present tense to describe the
        bivyin the rest of the description, "measured" should be changed
        to"measures". It is also a little confusing as to where the zipper
        ends. From the phrase "down theright side", it makes me think it
        goescompletely over the canopy and part way down the body of the
        bivy, but"ending about a third of the way down the canopy makes me
        think itends before reaching the body of the bivy. Can you clarify?
        that abit?

        Again I changed �canopy� to�vestibule� Regarding the zipper, YES, yourthinking is exactly how the zipper is installed. The zipper starts on the leftapprox 14� inches from the ground, travels up and takes a 90� turn at the peakof the vestibule, travels down the left side gently arching so that the zippertravels parallel to the ground and travels over the legs approximately onethird (measurement is included in OR) of the way to the toe box. One zipper forthe ToddTex and the second zipper for the netting, I simply at a loss as how tobe any clearer.




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      • pamwyant
        Alex, I am quite impressed with the information you have added. It really adds value for the reader. You still have a bit of work, mostly technical edits.
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 6, 2008
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          Alex,

          I am quite impressed with the information you have added. It really
          adds value for the reader.

          You still have a bit of work, mostly technical edits. Once revised,
          please repost again and we'll see if you are ready to post the final
          HTML version after that, which I suspect will be the case.

          Pam

          ************************

          ### EDIT: We still need the title and date to appear BEFORE your
          personal information.


          I have been backpacking since mid 90's, trips generally 2-10 days.

          ### EDIT: …since *the* mid 90's, *with* trips generally 2-10 days.

          I pack for comfort,shelters are usually tarp or bivy sack.

          ### EDIT: This is really two separate thoughts. Let's make it two
          sentences. "I pack for comfort. My shelters are usually a tarp or
          bivy sack."

          Spring to fall pack weight about 16 lbs/7 kg, and about 2 lbs/1 kg
          food per day.

          ### EDIT: *My* spring to fall pack weight *is* about 16 lbs/7kg,
          *plus* about 2 lbs/1kg food per day.


          Measured Weight:

          ### EDIT: You still need to add the measured weight.

          Listed dimensions: 88 x 34 x 25" (224 x 86 x 64 cm)
          Measured dimensions: 91 x 34 x 25" (231 x 86 x 64cm)
          Listed packed size: 6 x 15" (15 x 38 cm)
          Date: February 19, 2008

          ### EDIT: Remove the date from here please.

          The inside dimensions of the head and shoulder area of the vestibule
          measured 31(l) x 34(w) x 24(h)" (79 x 86 x 61 cm) at the widest point
          and narrowing down to 13" (33 cm) wide the on the floor (top), while
          the toe box area measures 17 (wide) x 14" (high) (43 x 36 cm) high
          when staked.

          ### EDIT: Something is missing or backwards here – "wide the on the
          floor (top)". Please correct as appropriate.

          ### EDIT: Remove the last instance of "high" in the last sentence;
          it is redundant since you stated `high' in parenthesis earlier.


          The canopy body and vestibule are constructed of ToddTex, which is
          Bibler's proprietary waterproof,
          breathable fabric.

          ### Edit: I am still bothered by the use of the word `vestibule' in
          connection with a bivy, since a vestibule is considered a small
          covered entry area, with the connotation that it will provide some
          protection from rain and some storage, while I don't see that a bivy
          entry fits this description. I checked Black Diamond's website, and
          they do refer to it as an "awning", so perhaps that would be a better
          word choice. From reading their site I get the impression they are
          calling the green hood part "canopy" and the black section at the
          front of the hood an "awning".

          ToddTex is made up of two layers, the exterior layer is a thin
          waterproof film laminated over a "super-light ripstop fabric"
          preventing water from penetrating.

          ### EDIT: the comma after "layers" should be a semi-colon instead.

          The inner layer of ToddTex material is made of "Nexus® which has a
          fuzzy texture." This layer disperses
          the moisture along the entire canopy area through the outer layer to
          be wicked away.

          ### EDIT: Actually, the Nexus layer wicks the moisture across then
          through the PTFE layer, and this should be changed to reflect that.

          There are two individually adjustable, dual-slider zippers. Both
          zippers measured 61" (155 cm) in length starting from the left side
          rising over the peak of the canopy, down the right side ending about
          a third of the way down the canopy. One zipper for closing the
          ToddTex canopy, the other for "no-see-um netting." After the zipper
          curves past the vestibule and moves parallel to the ground, the top
          side of the zipper sewn to the ToddTex canopy, and the bottom side is
          sewn to the laminate floor and measured and 7" (18 cm) off the
          ground.

          ### Edit: I think the best way to explain this is pretty much what
          you told me in your posted comments:
          "The zipper starts on the left approx 14" inches from the ground,
          travels up and takes a 90° turn at the peak of the vestibule, travels
          down the left side gently arching so that the zipper travels parallel
          to the ground and travels over the legs approximately one third of
          the way to the toe box. One zipper for the
          ToddTex and the second zipper for the netting" That pretty well
          covers it, and is clearer than the original section. Just polish it
          up a little, add your conversions, and that should do.

          I discovered exiting and entering to be challenging due to the length
          of this section of the zipper. This section of the zipper measured
          47" (119 cm) from the center of the peak down the right side of the
          vestibule arching/changing direction parallel to the ground and then
          traveling 20" (51 cm). The shape of the opening makes it difficult to
          get my legs inside.

          ### Comment: That should work. The additional information helped!

          I found that installing this pole first from the peak of canopy area
          in the front of the bivy and inserting the end into the pocket, then
          inserting the opposite end into the grommet located on the awning
          prevents the other end from popping out of the pocket. Then I thread
          the second longer pole through sewn fabric openings on the left and
          right sides of the canopy. Then one at a time I insert each end of the
          longer pole into the grommets located outside the bivy on the floor.

          ### Comment: Good description!

          To finish the set up I install the U-shaped pole which supports the
          toe box area into the grommets
          mounted on the floor, using provided cordage, which is looped through
          two sewn reinforced openings in the toe box awning.

          ### Edit/comment: I think you might still be missing something here –
          I'm thinking along the lines of "To finish the set up I install the
          U-shaped pole which supports the toe box area into the grommets
          mounted on the floor *and* using the provided cordage *looped thought
          two reinforced opening in the toe box awning I stake the foot section
          down.* Feel free to use your own wording for something similar, or
          let me know if this is not the case.

          My past experiences with other manufactures provided stuff sacks are
          that they are generally too small to repack the product.

          ### EDIT: spelling of "manufacturers"


          The stuff sack BDL provided was large enough to repack the bivy
          without struggling. Since the vestibule area is larger than the lower
          body area I fold the top over to make the widths closer to even.

          ### Edit: I think this should be "canopy" area rather
          than "vestibule".

          I used the bivy for a mid summer backpacking trip with evening
          temperatures approximately 85° F (30 C°) in the Upper Peninsula of
          Michigan, White Mountains National Park, New Hampshire USA Algonquin
          Provincial Park and Awaga Canyon Lake Superior Provincial Park,
          Ontario CA.

          ### Edit: This is a little confusing. Was this one trip, or
          multiple trips? If multiple trips, please state this in the
          beginning – "I used the bivy on several mid-summer backpacking
          trips…" It seems there should be a comma after USA.

          The bivy performed wonderfully in a trip into the Awaga Canyon, when
          it rained for
          several consecutive days and I did not encounter any leakage in this
          diverse weather conditions.

          ### Edit: I would remove this from above, since you repeat this
          information below, with more details:

          Speaking of rain, on a ten day trip (Awaga Canyon) it rained
          practically non-stop for a several days and there was no leaking.
          However, the continuous rain did require me to set up and pack away
          the bivy wet. When the rain stopped, I turned the bivy inside out and
          suspended it, and the material dried quickly.



          Summary:
          I find the small foot print especially convenient in many areas such
          as in the White Mountains where level ground is sparse. I have used
          the Tripod Bivy on many trips in the past five years, including many
          trips in difficult terrain, conditions and temperatures in the White
          Mountains. Additionally wind speeds in excess of 40 mph are not
          uncommon in the Presidential range. Under these conditions there were
          not any flapping noises nor did the vestibule bend or loose shape. The
          Tripod Bivy is constructed well and has proven to be a high quality
          one man shelter. In my opinion the overall performance was superb.

          ### Edit/comment: I think rearranging this a bit might be
          beneficial. Here's a suggestion:

          "I have used the Tripod Bivy on many trips in the past five years,
          including many trips in the difficult terrain, conditions, and
          temperatures of the White Mountains. I find the small foot print
          especially convenient there, where level ground is sparse.
          Additionally, wind speeds in excess of 40 mph (need metric
          conversion) are not uncommon in the Presidential range."

          The final sentences in the summary can stand as written.

          What I like:
          Wind and waterproof
          Extra room in the vestibule area; both height and width when
          compared to other bivy sacks.
          Durability
          Weight savings verses a tent.

          What I did not like.

          ### EDIT: for consistency use a colon instead of a period
          after "like"

          Entry and exiting can be difficult.
          Initial set up when new.

          What would I change.

          ### EDIT: for consistency use a colon instead of period
          after "change"

          Lengthen the zipper
        • ben Caron
          i think i got this email not intended for myself ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 6, 2008
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            i think i got this email not intended for myself


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