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Owner Review Dual Core pad - Ray Estrella

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  • rayestrella1
    Hi Jamie, I do not know if this is enough use for this pad or not. I just finished the last trip that I can use it on until probably next November. I would
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 5, 2006
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      Hi Jamie,

      I do not know if this is enough use for this pad or not. I just
      finished the last trip that I can use it on until probably next
      November. I would like to get the info out there as it is a very new
      product, although durabilty in the long run may not be addressed
      enough. Let me know. The HTML may be found here;

      http://tinyurl.com/fqx4y

      Big Agnes Dual Core Pad

      Owner Review
      March 29, 2006

      Tester Information
      Name: Raymond Estrella
      Age: 45
      Gender: Male
      Height: 6' 3" (193 cm)
      Weight: 210 lb (95 kg)
      Email address: rayestrella@...
      City: Huntington Beach
      State: California
      Country: USA

      Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
      over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
      Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
      the Sierra Nevada, and put 555 miles (896 km) on my boots last
      year. As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am making the move
      to lightweight gear, and smaller packs

      The product

      Manufacturer: Big Agnes Inc
      Web site: http://www.bigagnes.com
      Product: Dual Core Pad, Mummy Long
      Year manufactured: 2006
      MSRP: $105.00 (US)
      Weight listed: 33 oz (936 g) Actual measured 35.9 oz (1018 g)
      Weight of stuff sack: 1.8 oz (51 g)
      Measurements listed: 20" x 78" x 2.5" (51 cm x 198 cm x 6.25 cm)
      Actual measurements: 21.5" x 77" x 2.75" (55 cm x 192.5 cm x 7 cm)
      Packed size listed: 6" x 13" (15 cm x 33 cm) Actual measured 6.5" x
      13" (16.5 x 33 cm)
      Warranty: "If you are not satisfied with any Big Agnes product at
      the time you receive it, or if one of our products does not perform
      to your satisfaction, return it to Big Agnes for a replacement or
      refund."
      Similar products owned and used: Big Agnes Insulated Aircore, Exped
      Downmat 9. (See reviews)

      Product description

      The Dual Core Pad is a black and purple air mattress, intended for
      use as a cold weather backpack sleeping pad. The top is made of 70
      denier hexagonal rip-stop nylon fabric, with a Durable Water
      Repellant coating. The bottom is made of black 70 denier nylon
      fabric, without the rip-stop pattern. It has the Big Agnes logo at
      the top of the pad in white lettering, along with the product name
      and size. Just below that is a Primaloft logo, also in white.
      Besides the DWR coating on the outside, the inner surface has been
      given a polyurethane coating.

      The pad is made up of eight air chambers, running lengthwise. They
      are described as being I-beam construction. The manufacturer
      describes it as follows. "The I-beam construction technique is
      functionally superior to the typical welded-through construction of
      other air mats. Die cut holes in each I-beam allow air to flow
      freely between chambers giving constant support and comfort." As
      seen in the picture above the pad is cut to fit a mummy-shaped bag.

      In one corner of the pad at the top is a two-piece plastic-coated
      brass screw-closed air valve. When turned clockwise it closes the
      valve. Turning it counter-clockwise opens the valve, releasing the
      air to empty the pad. Big Agnes calls the valve an "EZ-Flate
      mouthpiece". The bottom section of the valve spins open or closed
      while the top, or end, stays stationary in my mouth. The picture to
      the right shows the valve, and the hexagonal patterned rip-stop.

      The pad has Primaloft insulation inside of it. The manufacturer says
      that it is "filled with Primaloft insulation", but it is actually a
      layer of insulation attached to the top side of the pad. The
      insulation has been treated with a "silicone treatment which serves
      as an anti-microbial within the pad." Since one introduces moisture
      into the pad while inflating by mouth, this is probably a good thing.

      It also has high density foam insulation in the pad. From what I can
      tell the foam is about .5 in (1.25 cm) thick, and seems to be bonded
      to the bottom side of the pad.

      The Dual Core came with a stuff sack made of the same rip-stop
      material as the top of the pad. A pocket inside of the stuff sack
      contains a repair kit consisting of a rip-stop fabric patch and a
      small tube of glue.

      Field Conditions

      I have used the Dual Core above Little Round Valley, near Mount San
      Jacinto in March of 2006. I was at 10,150' (3,094 m) elevation, on
      5' (1.5 m) of packed snow. I used it on a foot print with a fly
      above me. (Basically I was sleeping on a tarp on the snow.) It got
      down to 21 F (-6 C) over night. I was up there again in April, with
      basically the same conditions.

      I used it in a MSR Fling tent in the Bristlecone Pine Forest in May.
      The temps at night were 28 F and 30 F (-2 to -1 C). I had it set up
      on 4' (1.22 m) of packed snow at 11,200' (3,414 m) elevation, and on
      artic tundra (dirt, rocks, moss) at 12,600' (3,840 m). The ground
      was frozen hard in the morning.

      Observations

      I got this pad in March of 2006. I have a Big Agnes Insulated Air
      Core pad also, and have felt the cold through it in temps lower than
      the mid twenties F (-4 C). I have used it with a Therm-A-Rest Z-Lite
      pad under it with good results, so when I read about the addition of
      the foam in this pad I had to give it a shot. (My Exped pad works
      wonderfully, but the ability to drop half a pound (.23 kg) was to
      great to pass up.)

      On my first trip I was impressed with how well it worked on the
      snow. When I hike in the spring I will often set up on snow even
      when bare ground is available. It is cleaner and I can make a level
      site without to much effort, as opposed to moving a couple
      wheelbarrows of dirt for a regular site. (Just kidding, I am a LNT
      hiker.)

      During one of these trips I had a major problem with a new, untested
      bag that led to a very cold night. The only place I was not cold was
      where I was on the pad. The bag I was in had no insulation on the
      bottom so I was especially appreciative of the double insulated pad.

      On the trip in May My brother-in-law and I brought 0 F (-18 C) rated
      bags as we did not know what to expect. I was too warm in mine, and
      the Dual Core worked wonderfully on the snow the first night. Dave
      complained that he had a horrible night, that he was cold, and could
      not figure why with the sweet Marmot bag he was using. I asked if it
      could have been from his pad, and he said that he was cold on the
      bottom, so that must have been the problem. I said I did not notice.
      Hah, hah!

      The next night we were on frozen ground. This time I figured I would
      start off just lying on the pad with my bag unzipped, covering me
      quilt-style. When I got too cold I would get inside the bag and zip
      it up. I never did get into the bag. The pad did an adequate job of
      insulating me from the frigid ground. Here is a picture of it in the
      Fling.


      It is just as cushy as my Insulated Air Core pad, which makes sense
      as they are the same thickness. I have no problem staying on the
      mummy shaped pad, which is my first shaped in this way. I was
      worried that I would slip off with my feet at the narrow bottom of
      the pad. But some how my subconscious brain (abused though it is)
      keeps me aligned on it.

      I like the new valve. I have always disliked having to spin a valve
      around between my lips as I am blowing to keep the pressure up while
      shutting it. That feel of the serrated stem going brrrrrpp across my
      lips bugs me. I may see if I can replace the valve on my other pad
      with one like this.

      I like this pad a lot. It is going to fit a narrow niche for me. I
      will continue to use my Exped pad when I expect temps of 5 F (-15 C)
      and below. I will use the Dual Core for warmer winter hikes, and
      spring trips like the ones mentioned where I will be on snow.

      Pros: Compact rolled size, warm, comfortable.
      Cons: Expensive, heavier than advertised.
    • Kirez Reynolds
      Great review! I m wondering why you didn t identify, by name, the bad, new sleeping bag you had the cold experience with. We re gear junkies reading this!
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 5, 2006
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        Great review!

        I'm wondering why you didn't identify, by name, the bad, new sleeping bag
        you had the cold experience with. We're gear junkies reading this! You
        could simply say, parenthetically, (The bag was a
        SleepLikeABean.comSuperPhat, and didn't claim to be made for cold
        conditions; irrelevant for
        the purposes of this review.)

        Anyway, loved your review.

        -- Kirez


        On 6/6/06, rayestrella1 <rayestrella@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Jamie,
        >
        > I do not know if this is enough use for this pad or not. I just
        > finished the last trip that I can use it on until probably next
        > November. I would like to get the info out there as it is a very new
        > product, although durabilty in the long run may not be addressed
        > enough. Let me know. The HTML may be found here;
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/fqx4y
        >
        > Big Agnes Dual Core Pad
        >
        > Owner Review
        > March 29, 2006
        >
        > Tester Information
        > Name: Raymond Estrella
        > Age: 45
        > Gender: Male
        > Height: 6' 3" (193 cm)
        > Weight: 210 lb (95 kg)
        > Email address: rayestrella@...
        > City: Huntington Beach
        > State: California
        > Country: USA
        >
        > Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
        > over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
        > Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
        > the Sierra Nevada, and put 555 miles (896 km) on my boots last
        > year. As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am making the move
        > to lightweight gear, and smaller packs
        >
        > The product
        >
        > Manufacturer: Big Agnes Inc
        > Web site: http://www.bigagnes.com
        > Product: Dual Core Pad, Mummy Long
        > Year manufactured: 2006
        > MSRP: $105.00 (US)
        > Weight listed: 33 oz (936 g) Actual measured 35.9 oz (1018 g)
        > Weight of stuff sack: 1.8 oz (51 g)
        > Measurements listed: 20" x 78" x 2.5" (51 cm x 198 cm x 6.25 cm)
        > Actual measurements: 21.5" x 77" x 2.75" (55 cm x 192.5 cm x 7 cm)
        > Packed size listed: 6" x 13" (15 cm x 33 cm) Actual measured 6.5" x
        > 13" (16.5 x 33 cm)
        > Warranty: "If you are not satisfied with any Big Agnes product at
        > the time you receive it, or if one of our products does not perform
        > to your satisfaction, return it to Big Agnes for a replacement or
        > refund."
        > Similar products owned and used: Big Agnes Insulated Aircore, Exped
        > Downmat 9. (See reviews)
        >
        > Product description
        >
        > The Dual Core Pad is a black and purple air mattress, intended for
        > use as a cold weather backpack sleeping pad. The top is made of 70
        > denier hexagonal rip-stop nylon fabric, with a Durable Water
        > Repellant coating. The bottom is made of black 70 denier nylon
        > fabric, without the rip-stop pattern. It has the Big Agnes logo at
        > the top of the pad in white lettering, along with the product name
        > and size. Just below that is a Primaloft logo, also in white.
        > Besides the DWR coating on the outside, the inner surface has been
        > given a polyurethane coating.
        >
        > The pad is made up of eight air chambers, running lengthwise. They
        > are described as being I-beam construction. The manufacturer
        > describes it as follows. "The I-beam construction technique is
        > functionally superior to the typical welded-through construction of
        > other air mats. Die cut holes in each I-beam allow air to flow
        > freely between chambers giving constant support and comfort." As
        > seen in the picture above the pad is cut to fit a mummy-shaped bag.
        >
        > In one corner of the pad at the top is a two-piece plastic-coated
        > brass screw-closed air valve. When turned clockwise it closes the
        > valve. Turning it counter-clockwise opens the valve, releasing the
        > air to empty the pad. Big Agnes calls the valve an "EZ-Flate
        > mouthpiece". The bottom section of the valve spins open or closed
        > while the top, or end, stays stationary in my mouth. The picture to
        > the right shows the valve, and the hexagonal patterned rip-stop.
        >
        > The pad has Primaloft insulation inside of it. The manufacturer says
        > that it is "filled with Primaloft insulation", but it is actually a
        > layer of insulation attached to the top side of the pad. The
        > insulation has been treated with a "silicone treatment which serves
        > as an anti-microbial within the pad." Since one introduces moisture
        > into the pad while inflating by mouth, this is probably a good thing.
        >
        > It also has high density foam insulation in the pad. From what I can
        > tell the foam is about .5 in (1.25 cm) thick, and seems to be bonded
        > to the bottom side of the pad.
        >
        > The Dual Core came with a stuff sack made of the same rip-stop
        > material as the top of the pad. A pocket inside of the stuff sack
        > contains a repair kit consisting of a rip-stop fabric patch and a
        > small tube of glue.
        >
        > Field Conditions
        >
        > I have used the Dual Core above Little Round Valley, near Mount San
        > Jacinto in March of 2006. I was at 10,150' (3,094 m) elevation, on
        > 5' (1.5 m) of packed snow. I used it on a foot print with a fly
        > above me. (Basically I was sleeping on a tarp on the snow.) It got
        > down to 21 F (-6 C) over night. I was up there again in April, with
        > basically the same conditions.
        >
        > I used it in a MSR Fling tent in the Bristlecone Pine Forest in May.
        > The temps at night were 28 F and 30 F (-2 to -1 C). I had it set up
        > on 4' (1.22 m) of packed snow at 11,200' (3,414 m) elevation, and on
        > artic tundra (dirt, rocks, moss) at 12,600' (3,840 m). The ground
        > was frozen hard in the morning.
        >
        > Observations
        >
        > I got this pad in March of 2006. I have a Big Agnes Insulated Air
        > Core pad also, and have felt the cold through it in temps lower than
        > the mid twenties F (-4 C). I have used it with a Therm-A-Rest Z-Lite
        > pad under it with good results, so when I read about the addition of
        > the foam in this pad I had to give it a shot. (My Exped pad works
        > wonderfully, but the ability to drop half a pound (.23 kg) was to
        > great to pass up.)
        >
        > On my first trip I was impressed with how well it worked on the
        > snow. When I hike in the spring I will often set up on snow even
        > when bare ground is available. It is cleaner and I can make a level
        > site without to much effort, as opposed to moving a couple
        > wheelbarrows of dirt for a regular site. (Just kidding, I am a LNT
        > hiker.)
        >
        > During one of these trips I had a major problem with a new, untested
        > bag that led to a very cold night. The only place I was not cold was
        > where I was on the pad. The bag I was in had no insulation on the
        > bottom so I was especially appreciative of the double insulated pad.
        >
        > On the trip in May My brother-in-law and I brought 0 F (-18 C) rated
        > bags as we did not know what to expect. I was too warm in mine, and
        > the Dual Core worked wonderfully on the snow the first night. Dave
        > complained that he had a horrible night, that he was cold, and could
        > not figure why with the sweet Marmot bag he was using. I asked if it
        > could have been from his pad, and he said that he was cold on the
        > bottom, so that must have been the problem. I said I did not notice.
        > Hah, hah!
        >
        > The next night we were on frozen ground. This time I figured I would
        > start off just lying on the pad with my bag unzipped, covering me
        > quilt-style. When I got too cold I would get inside the bag and zip
        > it up. I never did get into the bag. The pad did an adequate job of
        > insulating me from the frigid ground. Here is a picture of it in the
        > Fling.
        >
        >
        > It is just as cushy as my Insulated Air Core pad, which makes sense
        > as they are the same thickness. I have no problem staying on the
        > mummy shaped pad, which is my first shaped in this way. I was
        > worried that I would slip off with my feet at the narrow bottom of
        > the pad. But some how my subconscious brain (abused though it is)
        > keeps me aligned on it.
        >
        > I like the new valve. I have always disliked having to spin a valve
        > around between my lips as I am blowing to keep the pressure up while
        > shutting it. That feel of the serrated stem going brrrrrpp across my
        > lips bugs me. I may see if I can replace the valve on my other pad
        > with one like this.
        >
        > I like this pad a lot. It is going to fit a narrow niche for me. I
        > will continue to use my Exped pad when I expect temps of 5 F (-15 C)
        > and below. I will use the Dual Core for warmer winter hikes, and
        > spring trips like the ones mentioned where I will be on snow.
        >
        > Pros: Compact rolled size, warm, comfortable.
        > Cons: Expensive, heavier than advertised.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To read our reviews, please visit http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
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        > outdoors<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Alaska+outdoors&w1=Survival+guide&w2=High&w3=Hiking&w4=Tester&w5=Alaska+hiking&w6=Alaska+outdoors&c=6&s=94&.sig=8_SHVwWBGT9KwpVbYTqD5Q>
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • chcoa
        Hi Ray, It s not my call but just for the record how many nights of use do you ahve on the pad? Jamie ... new ... San ... with ... May. ... up ... on
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 6, 2006
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          Hi Ray,

          It's not my call but just for the record how many nights of use do
          you ahve on the pad?

          Jamie

          --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "rayestrella1"
          <rayestrella@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Jamie,
          >
          > I do not know if this is enough use for this pad or not. I just
          > finished the last trip that I can use it on until probably next
          > November. I would like to get the info out there as it is a very
          new
          > product, although durabilty in the long run may not be addressed
          > enough. Let me know. The HTML may be found here;
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/fqx4y
          >
          > Big Agnes Dual Core Pad
          >
          > Field Conditions
          >
          > I have used the Dual Core above Little Round Valley, near Mount
          San
          > Jacinto in March of 2006. I was at 10,150' (3,094 m) elevation, on
          > 5' (1.5 m) of packed snow. I used it on a foot print with a fly
          > above me. (Basically I was sleeping on a tarp on the snow.) It got
          > down to 21 F (-6 C) over night. I was up there again in April,
          with
          > basically the same conditions.
          >
          > I used it in a MSR Fling tent in the Bristlecone Pine Forest in
          May.
          > The temps at night were 28 F and 30 F (-2 to -1 C). I had it set
          up
          > on 4' (1.22 m) of packed snow at 11,200' (3,414 m) elevation, and
          on
          > artic tundra (dirt, rocks, moss) at 12,600' (3,840 m). The ground
          > was frozen hard in the morning.
          >
        • rayestrella1
          ... It is 4 or 5 nights. I did not keep notes on one of my over-nighters this early spring. I most likely had it but I am always doing something different. (I
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 6, 2006
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            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "chcoa" <jdeben@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Ray,
            >
            > It's not my call but just for the record how many nights of use do
            > you ahve on the pad?

            It is 4 or 5 nights. I did not keep notes on one of my over-nighters
            this early spring. I most likely had it but I am always doing
            something different. (I had washed my digital recorder. They don't
            work too well after that...)

            For sure the 4 on the trips written about. 3 on snow, 1 on frozen
            ground. I could pretend, but that ain't my style!

            Ray
          • Andrew Priest
            ... Given it is a new pad etc, and given our testing nights, I can live with your time in the field Ray. Thanks for posting this review. Andrew Priest
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 7, 2006
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              At 08:03 AM 7/06/2006, you wrote:

              >--- In
              ><mailto:BackpackGearTest%40yahoogroups.com>BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com,
              >"chcoa" <jdeben@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Ray,
              > >
              > > It's not my call but just for the record how many nights of use do
              > > you ahve on the pad?
              >
              >It is 4 or 5 nights. I did not keep notes on one of my over-nighters
              >this early spring. I most likely had it but I am always doing
              >something different. (I had washed my digital recorder. They don't
              >work too well after that...)
              >
              >For sure the 4 on the trips written about. 3 on snow, 1 on frozen
              >ground. I could pretend, but that ain't my style!

              Given it is a new pad etc, and given our testing nights, I can live
              with your time in the field Ray. Thanks for posting this review.

              Andrew Priest



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Andrew Priest
              ... Hi Because as a rule it is our policy to not do this. If Ray so wishes, he can write an Owner Review on the bag in question and then link to the bag, but
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 7, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                At 01:42 PM 6/06/2006, you wrote:

                >Great review!
                >
                >I'm wondering why you didn't identify, by name, the bad, new sleeping bag
                >you had the cold experience with. We're gear junkies reading this!

                Hi

                Because as a rule it is our policy to not do this. If Ray so wishes,
                he can write an Owner Review on the bag in question and then link to
                the bag, but it would not be appropriate to name the bag in this
                review and criticise the product in this review, without
                substantiating that criticism. One thing we pride ourselves on is
                that we back our positives and negatives. We are not about just
                bagging things, excuse the pun.

                Regards
                Andrew Priest

                Senior Edit Moderator and List Moderator
              • rayestrella1
                OK guys, my last OR of the month and maybe the summer. I think that I can give presentations on writing ORs now. (Notice I did not say how to properly write a
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 30, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  OK guys, my last OR of the month and maybe the summer. I think that
                  I can give presentations on writing ORs now. (Notice I did not say
                  how to properly write a good OR.) And they are getting more fun to
                  write. MealGear was my funnest. (Is that a word? I don't think so.
                  Pam or Roger will tell me.) Well the HTML is here;

                  http://tinyurl.com/gf622

                  Natural High Foods

                  Owner Review
                  June 30, 2006

                  Tester Information
                  Name: Raymond Estrella
                  Age: 45
                  Gender: Male
                  Height: 6' 3" (193 cm)
                  Weight: 210 lb (95 kg)
                  Email address: rayestrella@...
                  City: Huntington Beach
                  State: California
                  Country: USA

                  Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
                  over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
                  Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
                  the Sierra Nevada, and have put 148 miles (238 km) with a pack on my
                  back so far this year. As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am
                  making the move to lightweight gear, and smaller packs.

                  The Product

                  Manufacturer: Richmoor Corporation
                  Web site: www.richmoor.com
                  Product: Natural High Gourmet Camping Foods (Entrees)
                  Year manufactured: varies
                  MSRP: $5.75 – $7.00 (US)
                  Weight listed (Tequila Chicken): 5.25 oz (149 g) Actual weight incl.
                  packaging: 6.7 oz (190 g)

                  Product Description

                  Natural High Gourmet Camping Foods are the premier line of camping
                  and backpacking foods made by the Richmoor Corporation. They also
                  produce the Richmoor Homestyle Camping Foods line.

                  The meals come in a plasticized foil bag. On each side of the bag is
                  a notch to facilitate tearing the top off to get to the contents. A
                  half inch (1.2 cm) below the tear notch is a press-to-seal strip
                  inside of the bag. On the top of the bag a "best when used by" date
                  is stamped into the material. The bottom of the bag is pleated,
                  which when spread open creates a stable base for the bag to stand
                  on.

                  The front of the package has the Natural High name and logo along
                  with the name of the entrée itself. The weight is listed at the
                  bottom. On the back is some marketing hype, cooking instructions,
                  the ingredient list and nutritional information.

                  When opened the bag reveals the main ingredients along with a small
                  oxygen absorber packet. Many of the meals also contain small plastic
                  pouches of secondary ingredients. These are opened and added to the
                  main batch before adding the boiling water. Most of the ingredients
                  are freeze-dried but some are dehydrated instead.

                  All of their entrees are no-cook. They say to add the boiling water,
                  stir and let sit for seven to ten minutes before eating. A
                  recommendation is given to simmer in a pot for an additional three
                  to four minutes when preparing at higher elevations.

                  This is quoted from Richmoor's website. I will comment on it below.

                  "Our Natural High brand is an all natural, gourmet brand for the
                  upscale and discriminating customer. We use ingredients like
                  asparagus, snow peas, and wild rice, and combine them with spicy
                  seasonings and unique sauces. Natural High contains no artificial
                  ingredients or preservatives, no artificial colors, no artificial
                  flavors - no artificial anything. Also, no MSG has been added, and
                  no more added salt than is absolutely necessary for flavor."

                  Field Conditions

                  Over the past 15 years I have used these meals on hikes the entire
                  length of California. The highest elevation they have been prepared
                  at would be two times at 13,200' (4,023 m) near White Mountain. And
                  since my favorite hiking spot is the Sierra Nevada range many have
                  been made near that elevation in the past.

                  They have been used in the desert at Joshua Tree National Monument
                  (now Park) and Death Valley. I have eaten them in every month of the
                  calendar and in every kind of weather. The coldest trip I ate them
                  on saw a low of 10 F (-12 C) in 2003.

                  Observations

                  A little history is in order here. I started backpacking in 1974. As
                  I lived in Twentynine Palms California at the time that meant a lot
                  of desert hiking in JT and carrying plenty of water and a lot of
                  canned foods. This made for heavy packs and a limited number of days
                  I could stay out. In 1979 I moved to Idyllwild CA and became hooked
                  on mountains. From there I branched out to the San Bernardino
                  Mountains (Big Bear area) and then the Sierra Nevada to experience
                  them even more. In a little backpacking store in Big Bear I saw my
                  first dehydrated food. I loved the concept and adopted it whole
                  heartedly. Unfortunately a lot of it was horrible. Plus quality
                  control was not all that great. I got sick from what I am sure were
                  bad meals on a couple of trips. When Mountain House started hitting
                  our area things took a turn for the better.

                  In 1978 I did an investigative report on food additives. After doing
                  the research for the paper I was so disgusted by what I found (and
                  wrote up) that I cut out as many additives as I could from my diet,
                  stopped eating refined sugar and became an ovo-lacto vegetarian. I
                  stayed one for the next ten years, then over the next six slowly
                  added poultry and finally beef back in to my diet. With the
                  backpacking foods meatless was not a problem as there a lot of pasta
                  based stuff (spaghetti, macaroni & cheese, etc.) out there. But a
                  lot of the better tasting brands were not the healthiest. And they
                  were all so bland that I started carrying a lot of spices to perk
                  them up.

                  I think it was 1990 that I tried my first Natural High meal. It was
                  a meatless entrée called Cheese Enchilada Ranchero. I loved it and
                  it became my favorite evening meal. There were trips that I would
                  have it two out of three nights. In 1991 I shared some with my
                  brother-in-law who did not ever take freeze-dried food. He became a
                  convert. (In fact that meal is still his favorite today.)

                  The Natural High line has become my favorite foods because of the
                  taste and the fact that they do not use any additives. The sodium
                  content in them is half (or less) what is found in other brands.
                  Here is the sodium contained in a single serving of the Tequila
                  Chicken: 560 mg. Here it is for three similar chicken entrees I have
                  in our gear room. Example 1: 1360 mg, example 2: 1080 mg, and
                  example 3: 1480 mg. As can be seen they are way below the norm.

                  (Note: there are other brands that are natural and contain no
                  additives. I do use them. But they are not as flavorful, nor do they
                  have the variety.)

                  My new favorite flavor is the Tequila Chicken pictured above. I have
                  about five of them in the gear room right now. Other stand outs are
                  the Beef Enchilada, Three Cheese Lasagna, Honey Lime Chicken and
                  Chicken Fajitas. I have had about 15 other entrees besides the ones
                  mentioned. All have been very good. I won't try the shrimp entrees
                  though.

                  Preparation is a breeze. Even when I am at high altitude (most of
                  the time) I never put it in a pot for extra simmering. Even in
                  January the past two years in snow, here is what I do.

                  I prep the meal as needed while I start the water boiling, opening
                  any secondary pouches and pulling out the oxygen absorber. I spread
                  open the pleat at the bottom of the bag and put it into my balaclava
                  so as not to burn my hand. When the water is at a full rolling boil
                  I pour it into the bag, give it a quick stir, then seal the bags
                  with the zip-strip. I then place it, still in my balaclava on my -20
                  F (-29 C) sleeping bag and fold the sleeping bag over the meal,
                  creating the worlds biggest (and most expensive) cozy. I let it sit
                  for about 15 minutes instead of the suggested 7 to 10. It turns out
                  great and is still to hot to eat. I eat it right out of the pouch
                  and when I am done the little secondary bags, oxygen absorber and
                  the top strip of the main bag all go inside it. I press any trapped
                  air out, zip it closed and my meal is all cleaned up.

                  I eat the whole thing as a single serving. Sometimes in the warmer
                  months it is a stretch to finish it, but in the winter it is no
                  problem. In fact I even supplement them at times. I will take a
                  package of freeze-dried chicken and add it to the water as I start
                  it boiling. (Having increased its amount as necessary.) Then Dump it
                  into a Three Cheese Lasagna and I have Chicken Alfredo, hiker style.
                  I do the same thing by adding beef to the Three Bean Chili. I have
                  found that the Chili needs to sit for at least 20 minutes in
                  the "cozy" to properly hydrate the beans. Otherwise some will still
                  be crunchy. Same thing goes for the Red Beans and Rice.

                  I do not take their breakfast items hiking anymore but I used to a
                  lot. They are very good but take more work and clean-up than I want
                  to spend anymore. I do still use them when camping.

                  I have been very pleased with this line of meals and will
                  undoubtedly be eating them for some time to come. This picture was
                  taken in May of this year. Look what Ray is going to eat tonight!
                  (Right side of the door.)
                • pamwyant
                  ... that ... Well, I can t disappoint you. Nope, funnest isn t a word. :0) Subject: Re: Owner Review Dual Core pad ... ... Ray, are these meals
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 1 12:10 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "rayestrella1"
                    <rayestrella@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > OK guys, my last OR of the month and maybe the summer. I think
                    that
                    > I can give presentations on writing ORs now. (Notice I did not say
                    > how to properly write a good OR.) And they are getting more fun to
                    > write. MealGear was my funnest. (Is that a word? I don't think so.
                    > Pam or Roger will tell me.)

                    Well, I can't disappoint you. Nope, funnest isn't a word. :0)


                    Subject: Re: Owner Review Dual Core pad

                    >
                    > Natural High Foods
                    >
                    > Owner Review
                    > June 30, 2006

                    <snip>

                    > The Product
                    >
                    > Manufacturer: Richmoor Corporation
                    > Web site: www.richmoor.com
                    > Product: Natural High Gourmet Camping Foods (Entrees)

                    Ray, are these meals considered "Dual Core pads" because they both
                    pad sharp objects on the interior of your pack and pad your belly
                    when you eat them, or what?

                    <grin>

                    You might want to revise the title of your post.

                    <bigger grin>

                    It might just be that you've done one review too many this month!

                    <very big grin>

                    Pam
                  • rayestrella1
                    Whoops, see what happens when you get lazy and miss the suject line in the drop-down menu. Now it is right, the HTML is here; http://tinyurl.com/gf622 Natural
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 2 3:41 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Whoops, see what happens when you get lazy and miss the suject line
                      in the drop-down menu. Now it is right, the HTML is here;

                      http://tinyurl.com/gf622


                      Natural High Foods

                      Owner Review
                      June 30, 2006

                      Tester Information
                      Name: Raymond Estrella
                      Age: 45
                      Gender: Male
                      Height: 6' 3" (193 cm)
                      Weight: 210 lb (95 kg)
                      Email address: rayestrella@...
                      City: Huntington Beach
                      State: California
                      Country: USA

                      Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
                      over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
                      Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
                      the Sierra Nevada, and have put 148 miles (238 km) with a pack on my
                      back so far this year. As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am
                      making the move to lightweight gear, and smaller packs.

                      The Product

                      Manufacturer: Richmoor Corporation
                      Web site: www.richmoor.com
                      Product: Natural High Gourmet Camping Foods (Entrees)
                      Year manufactured: varies
                      MSRP: $5.75 – $7.00 (US)
                      Weight listed (Tequila Chicken): 5.25 oz (149 g) Actual weight incl.
                      packaging: 6.7 oz (190 g)

                      Product Description

                      Natural High Gourmet Camping Foods are the premier line of camping
                      and backpacking foods made by the Richmoor Corporation. They also
                      produce the Richmoor Homestyle Camping Foods line.

                      The meals come in a plasticized foil bag. On each side of the bag is
                      a notch to facilitate tearing the top off to get to the contents. A
                      half inch (1.2 cm) below the tear notch is a press-to-seal strip
                      inside of the bag. On the top of the bag a "best when used by" date
                      is stamped into the material. The bottom of the bag is pleated,
                      which when spread open creates a stable base for the bag to stand
                      on.

                      The front of the package has the Natural High name and logo along
                      with the name of the entrée itself. The weight is listed at the
                      bottom. On the back is some marketing hype, cooking instructions,
                      the ingredient list and nutritional information.

                      When opened the bag reveals the main ingredients along with a small
                      oxygen absorber packet. Many of the meals also contain small plastic
                      pouches of secondary ingredients. These are opened and added to the
                      main batch before adding the boiling water. Most of the ingredients
                      are freeze-dried but some are dehydrated instead.

                      All of their entrees are no-cook. They say to add the boiling water,
                      stir and let sit for seven to ten minutes before eating. A
                      recommendation is given to simmer in a pot for an additional three
                      to four minutes when preparing at higher elevations.

                      This is quoted from Richmoor's website. I will comment on it below.

                      "Our Natural High brand is an all natural, gourmet brand for the
                      upscale and discriminating customer. We use ingredients like
                      asparagus, snow peas, and wild rice, and combine them with spicy
                      seasonings and unique sauces. Natural High contains no artificial
                      ingredients or preservatives, no artificial colors, no artificial
                      flavors - no artificial anything. Also, no MSG has been added, and
                      no more added salt than is absolutely necessary for flavor."

                      Field Conditions

                      Over the past 15 years I have used these meals on hikes the entire
                      length of California. The highest elevation they have been prepared
                      at would be two times at 13,200' (4,023 m) near White Mountain. And
                      since my favorite hiking spot is the Sierra Nevada range many have
                      been made near that elevation in the past.

                      They have been used in the desert at Joshua Tree National Monument
                      (now Park) and Death Valley. I have eaten them in every month of the
                      calendar and in every kind of weather. The coldest trip I ate them
                      on saw a low of 10 F (-12 C) in 2003.

                      Observations

                      A little history is in order here. I started backpacking in 1974. As
                      I lived in Twentynine Palms California at the time that meant a lot
                      of desert hiking in JT and carrying plenty of water and a lot of
                      canned foods. This made for heavy packs and a limited number of days
                      I could stay out. In 1979 I moved to Idyllwild CA and became hooked
                      on mountains. From there I branched out to the San Bernardino
                      Mountains (Big Bear area) and then the Sierra Nevada to experience
                      them even more. In a little backpacking store in Big Bear I saw my
                      first dehydrated food. I loved the concept and adopted it whole
                      heartedly. Unfortunately a lot of it was horrible. Plus quality
                      control was not all that great. I got sick from what I am sure were
                      bad meals on a couple of trips. When Mountain House started hitting
                      our area things took a turn for the better.

                      In 1978 I did an investigative report on food additives. After doing
                      the research for the paper I was so disgusted by what I found (and
                      wrote up) that I cut out as many additives as I could from my diet,
                      stopped eating refined sugar and became an ovo-lacto vegetarian. I
                      stayed one for the next ten years, then over the next six slowly
                      added poultry and finally beef back in to my diet. With the
                      backpacking foods meatless was not a problem as there a lot of pasta
                      based stuff (spaghetti, macaroni & cheese, etc.) out there. But a
                      lot of the better tasting brands were not the healthiest. And they
                      were all so bland that I started carrying a lot of spices to perk
                      them up.

                      I think it was 1990 that I tried my first Natural High meal. It was
                      a meatless entrée called Cheese Enchilada Ranchero. I loved it and
                      it became my favorite evening meal. There were trips that I would
                      have it two out of three nights. In 1991 I shared some with my
                      brother-in-law who did not ever take freeze-dried food. He became a
                      convert. (In fact that meal is still his favorite today.)

                      The Natural High line has become my favorite foods because of the
                      taste and the fact that they do not use any additives. The sodium
                      content in them is half (or less) what is found in other brands.
                      Here is the sodium contained in a single serving of the Tequila
                      Chicken: 560 mg. Here it is for three similar chicken entrees I have
                      in our gear room. Example 1: 1360 mg, example 2: 1080 mg, and
                      example 3: 1480 mg. As can be seen they are way below the norm.

                      (Note: there are other brands that are natural and contain no
                      additives. I do use them. But they are not as flavorful, nor do they
                      have the variety.)

                      My new favorite flavor is the Tequila Chicken pictured above. I have
                      about five of them in the gear room right now. Other stand outs are
                      the Beef Enchilada, Three Cheese Lasagna, Honey Lime Chicken and
                      Chicken Fajitas. I have had about 15 other entrees besides the ones
                      mentioned. All have been very good. I won't try the shrimp entrees
                      though.

                      Preparation is a breeze. Even when I am at high altitude (most of
                      the time) I never put it in a pot for extra simmering. Even in
                      January the past two years in snow, here is what I do.

                      I prep the meal as needed while I start the water boiling, opening
                      any secondary pouches and pulling out the oxygen absorber. I spread
                      open the pleat at the bottom of the bag and put it into my balaclava
                      so as not to burn my hand. When the water is at a full rolling boil
                      I pour it into the bag, give it a quick stir, then seal the bags
                      with the zip-strip. I then place it, still in my balaclava on my -20
                      F (-29 C) sleeping bag and fold the sleeping bag over the meal,
                      creating the worlds biggest (and most expensive) cozy. I let it sit
                      for about 15 minutes instead of the suggested 7 to 10. It turns out
                      great and is still to hot to eat. I eat it right out of the pouch
                      and when I am done the little secondary bags, oxygen absorber and
                      the top strip of the main bag all go inside it. I press any trapped
                      air out, zip it closed and my meal is all cleaned up.

                      I eat the whole thing as a single serving. Sometimes in the warmer
                      months it is a stretch to finish it, but in the winter it is no
                      problem. In fact I even supplement them at times. I will take a
                      package of freeze-dried chicken and add it to the water as I start
                      it boiling. (Having increased its amount as necessary.) Then Dump it
                      into a Three Cheese Lasagna and I have Chicken Alfredo, hiker style.
                      I do the same thing by adding beef to the Three Bean Chili. I have
                      found that the Chili needs to sit for at least 20 minutes in
                      the "cozy" to properly hydrate the beans. Otherwise some will still
                      be crunchy. Same thing goes for the Red Beans and Rice.

                      I do not take their breakfast items hiking anymore but I used to a
                      lot. They are very good but take more work and clean-up than I want
                      to spend anymore. I do still use them when camping.

                      I have been very pleased with this line of meals and will
                      undoubtedly be eating them for some time to come. This picture was
                      taken in May of this year. Look what Ray is going to eat tonight!
                      (Right side of the door.)
                    • rayestrella1
                      ... Ha! I was rushing and thought I was clicking the right name on the drop-down menu from the auto-compleat function. Whoops. ... Yeah you are right. I had
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 2 3:48 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "pamwyant" <pamwyant@...>
                        wrote:

                        > Ray, are these meals considered "Dual Core pads" because they both
                        > pad sharp objects on the interior of your pack and pad your belly
                        > when you eat them, or what?
                        >
                        > <grin>
                        >
                        > You might want to revise the title of your post.
                        >
                        > <bigger grin>

                        Ha! I was rushing and thought I was clicking the right name on the
                        drop-down menu from the auto-compleat function. Whoops.

                        > It might just be that you've done one review too many this month!
                        >
                        > <very big grin>

                        Yeah you are right. I had the most fun ever writing the spork OR,
                        but have a tent OR that I have been slowly fleshing out and went to
                        write more on it and just said, no, I have hit the wall. Time to
                        focus on some other things.

                        Ray
                      • chcoa
                        ... This has been added to the queue. I did not list your previous post because it did not have any bearing on your placement in the queue. Same spot either
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 2 10:37 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >
                          > Natural High Foods
                          >
                          > Owner Review
                          > June 30, 2006


                          This has been added to the queue. I did not list your previous post
                          because it did not have any bearing on your placement in the queue.
                          Same spot either way,

                          jamie d
                        • rayestrella1
                          ... Thanks Jamie, That s OK even if it got pushed off. You guys are welcome to get to mine whenever you would like if things get busy. I m easy. Ray
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 3 5:36 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "chcoa" <jdeben@...> wrote:
                            > This has been added to the queue. I did not list your previous post
                            > because it did not have any bearing on your placement in the queue.
                            > Same spot either way,
                            >
                            > jamie d

                            Thanks Jamie,

                            That's OK even if it got pushed off. You guys are welcome to get to
                            mine whenever you would like if things get busy. I'm easy.

                            Ray
                          • pamwyant
                            EDIT: Natural High Foods Owner Review -Raymond Estrella Overall another great report Ray. Just a few nitpicky edits and suggestions. You know the drill –
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 7 9:30 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              EDIT: Natural High Foods Owner Review -Raymond Estrella


                              Overall another great report Ray. Just a few nitpicky edits and
                              suggestions. You know the drill – EDIT = change required.
                              SUGGESTION = change as you see fit.

                              Once you've made the corrections, considering your experience level,
                              you can go ahead and upload to the appropriate folder (Found under:
                              Food/Packaged Meals/Richmoor Natural High Camping Foods). No need
                              to repost here unless there is specifically something you change
                              that you want me to look at again.

                              Pam Wyant
                              **************************

                              Backpacking Background: I have been hiking for over 30 years, all
                              over the state of California. I have also hiked in Washington,
                              Minnesota, Nevada, Arizona, and Idaho. I hike year-round, mostly in
                              the Sierra Nevada, and have put 148 miles (238 km) with a pack on my
                              back so far this year. As I start my 4th decade of backpacking I am
                              making the move to lightweight gear, and smaller packs.

                              ###COMMENT: Just a suggestion, but you could put in a bit about
                              what type of shelter you use, since you still have around 30 words
                              to play with before hitting the 100 word limit.



                              Weight listed (Tequila Chicken): 5.25 oz (149 g) Actual weight incl.
                              packaging: 6.7 oz (190 g)

                              ### SUGGESTION: If the manufacturer lists the weight as "net"
                              weight, you might list as follows:

                              Net weight listed (Tequila Chicken): 5.25 oz (149 g)
                              Actual gross weight (incl. packaging): 6.7 oz (190 g)

                              The weight is listed at the
                              bottom.

                              ### SUGGESTION: I think the weight listed at the bottom is net
                              weight, so you might specify that. "The *net* weight is listed…"

                              On the back is some marketing hype, cooking instructions,
                              the ingredient list and nutritional information.

                              ### SUGGESTION: You might consider listing the nutritional
                              information and ingredients, since that sometimes is hard to obtain
                              on the web, and something that those with food allergies or special
                              diets are very interested in.


                              Field Conditions

                              Over the past 15 years I have used these meals on hikes the entire
                              length of California. The highest elevation they have been prepared
                              at would be two times at 13,200' (4,023 m) near White Mountain. And
                              since my favorite hiking spot is the Sierra Nevada range many have
                              been made near that elevation in the past.

                              ### SUGGESTION: The wording here is a bit awkward. You might re-
                              think it – perhaps "They have been prepared as high as 13,200'
                              (4,023 m) twice, near White Mountain. And since my favorite hiking
                              spot is the Sierra Nevada range, I have made many more at elevations
                              nearly as high. Or however else you choose to re-word.

                              They have been used in the desert at Joshua Tree National Monument
                              (now Park) and Death Valley. I have eaten them in every month of the
                              calendar and in every kind of weather. The coldest trip I ate them
                              on saw a low of 10 F (-12 C) in 2003.

                              ### SUGGESTION: Again a little awkward wording. Perhaps "The
                              coldest trip I ate them on was in 2003, where lows were 10 F (-12 C).

                              Observations

                              A little history is in order here. I started backpacking in 1974. As
                              I lived in Twentynine Palms California at the time that meant a lot
                              of desert hiking in JT and carrying plenty of water and a lot of
                              canned foods.

                              ### EDIT: Casual or international readers may not know JT is Joshua
                              Tree. You should probably either spell it out here or use the
                              abbreviation following the name in the earlier paragraph – Joshua
                              Tree (JT) National Monument (now Park).

                              I loved the concept and adopted it whole heartedly.

                              ### SUGGESTION: My spell checker suggests a hyphen in "whole-
                              heartedly".

                              I stayed one for the next ten years, then over the next six slowly
                              added poultry and finally beef back in to my diet.

                              ### EDIT: *into* as one word.

                              With the backpacking foods meatless was not a problem as there a lot
                              of pasta
                              based stuff (spaghetti, macaroni & cheese, etc.) out there.

                              ### EDIT: …not a problem as there *is* a lot of pasta based stuff…


                              The Natural High line has become my favorite foods because of the
                              taste and the fact that they do not use any additives.

                              ### SUGGESTION: either make "foods" a singular *food* or eliminate
                              it entirely.


                              Here it is for three similar chicken entrees I have
                              in our gear room. Example 1: 1360 mg, example 2: 1080 mg, and
                              example 3: 1480 mg. As can be seen they are way below the norm.

                              ### EDIT/SUGGESTION: You need a colon after gear room, which will
                              make a lot of colons in that sentence, so I suggestion using dashes
                              after the examples. Also, Example does not need capitalized as
                              used. (Here it is for three similar chicken entrees I have in our
                              gear room: example 1 – 1360 mg; example 2 – 1080 mg; and example
                              3: 1480 mg.) Also, to make it clearer, I suggest, "As can be seen,
                              Natural High is way below the norm."

                              I have had about 15 other entrees besides the ones
                              mentioned. All have been very good. I won't try the shrimp entrees
                              though.

                              ### SUGGESTION: The last sentence sort of stands out as an oddity.
                              Perhaps you could work it in another way. Something like "I have
                              had about 15 other entrees besides the ones mentioned, although I
                              don't like shrimp and haven't tried any of those. All have been
                              very good.
                              OR: I have had about 15 other entrees besides the ones mentioned.
                              All have been very good (Disclaimer: I have not tried any shrimp
                              entrees due to personal preference.) Your call on this.

                              .Even in January the past two years in snow, here is what I do.

                              ### EDIT and SUGGESTION: You need a colon instead of a period at
                              the end. I suggest re-wording a bit – "For the past two years, even
                              in January in the snow, here is what I do:"

                              I prep the meal as needed while I start the water boiling, opening
                              any secondary pouches and pulling out the oxygen absorber. I spread
                              open the pleat at the bottom of the bag and put it into my balaclava
                              so as not to burn my hand. When the water is at a full rolling boil
                              I pour it into the bag, give it a quick stir, then seal the bags
                              with the zip-strip.

                              ### EDIT: …quick stir, then seal the *bag* with the zip-strip


                              I then place it, still in my balaclava on my -20
                              F (-29 C) sleeping bag and fold the sleeping bag over the meal,
                              creating the worlds biggest (and most expensive) cozy.

                              ### EDIT: need comma after balaclava.
                              COMMENT: Oooohhh… I hope it never leaks.

                              I let it sit
                              for about 15 minutes instead of the suggested 7 to 10. It turns out
                              great and is still to hot to eat.

                              ### EDIT: …still *too* hot to eat.


                              Then Dump it into a Three Cheese Lasagna and I have Chicken Alfredo,
                              hiker style.

                              ### EDIT: Then *I dump* it…
                            • rayestrella1
                              ... Too funny, I was working on two multi-tool ORs today and noticed the same thing and added to my bio. I had chopped it down last month. ... I agree. But as
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 7 10:36 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "pamwyant" <pamwyant@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > EDIT: Natural High Foods Owner Review -Raymond Estrella
                                > ###COMMENT: Just a suggestion, but you could put in a bit about
                                > what type of shelter you use, since you still have around 30 words
                                > to play with before hitting the 100 word limit.

                                Too funny,

                                I was working on two multi-tool ORs today and noticed the same thing
                                and added to my bio. I had chopped it down last month.

                                > ### SUGGESTION: You might consider listing the nutritional
                                > information and ingredients, since that sometimes is hard to
                                >obtain on the web, and something that those with food allergies or
                                >special diets are very interested in.

                                I agree. But as I am attempting to review an entire (as much as I
                                have experience with) product line I would like to add a link to the
                                excellent info file on the site. If you want I will pull it back out.

                                I have made all of your other edits and suggestions also. As always
                                you have an excellent eye for the things that are lacking in my
                                writing.

                                I am thinking about joining you guys as an editor and state that I
                                am not being sarcastic or facetious when I say that I admire and am
                                somewhat in awe of your editorial abilities.

                                So as always, thank you Pam, for making my scribbles a better review.

                                Ray
                              • pamwyant
                                ... or ... the ... out. I think that link is perfectly appropriate, although Andrew or Jerry will be the final authority on that, since with a few exceptions
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 8 9:56 AM
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                                  --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "rayestrella1"
                                  <rayestrella@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > ### SUGGESTION: You might consider listing the nutritional
                                  > > information and ingredients, since that sometimes is hard to
                                  > >obtain on the web, and something that those with food allergies
                                  or
                                  > >special diets are very interested in.
                                  >
                                  > I agree. But as I am attempting to review an entire (as much as I
                                  > have experience with) product line I would like to add a link to
                                  the
                                  > excellent info file on the site. If you want I will pull it back
                                  out.

                                  I think that link is perfectly appropriate, although Andrew or Jerry
                                  will be the final authority on that, since with a few exceptions
                                  only the manufacturer's main home page is allowed. My vote is for
                                  this to be one of the few exceptions. We'll see if Andrew or Jerry
                                  veto my vote. :^)

                                  You do need to correct the sentence spacing in a couple of places in
                                  the HTML version where you made changes (the section about sodium
                                  and your preparation section about January in the snow).

                                  Otherwise it looks great.

                                  Thanks for the compliments. I'm glad to hear you are joining the
                                  editor team. You certainly have the enthusiasm and energy for it.

                                  Pam Wyant
                                • rayestrella1
                                  ... Aaaah! See what happens when I stay up a few hours past my bedtime? I thought I checked it out. It is fixed now. Thanks Pam, Ray
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 8 12:02 PM
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                                    --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "pamwyant" <pamwyant@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > You do need to correct the sentence spacing in a couple of places in
                                    > the HTML version where you made changes (the section about sodium
                                    > and your preparation section about January in the snow).

                                    Aaaah!

                                    See what happens when I stay up a few hours past my bedtime? I thought
                                    I checked it out. It is fixed now.

                                    Thanks Pam,

                                    Ray
                                  • pamwyant
                                    Hey Ray, the spacing is still off in your HTML version in the section giving the examples of sodium. Can you double check it? Thanks - Pam
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jul 8 3:06 PM
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                                      Hey Ray, the spacing is still off in your HTML version in the section
                                      giving the examples of sodium. Can you double check it?

                                      Thanks -

                                      Pam
                                    • rayestrella1
                                      ... section ... I think I got it. (Where did we hear that before?) I am at my sister s on her computer for net access. I am shuffling stuff between my laptop
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jul 8 6:09 PM
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                                        --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "pamwyant" <pamwyant@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hey Ray, the spacing is still off in your HTML version in the
                                        section
                                        > giving the examples of sodium. Can you double check it?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks -
                                        >
                                        > Pam
                                        >

                                        I think I got it. (Where did we hear that before?)

                                        I am at my sister's on her computer for net access. I am shuffling
                                        stuff between my laptop and her PC with a thumb drive and it is
                                        unwieldy. I need to find a CAT 5 cable and get on their network.
                                        YThen I can use my own computer.

                                        Ray
                                      • Andrew Priest
                                        ... G day Is the link to a page on the manufacturer s website? If yes, then the answer is no, but you could mention in the Owner Review that the manufacturer s
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jul 10 5:33 AM
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                                          At 12:56 AM 9/07/2006, you wrote:
                                          > > I agree. But as I am attempting to review an entire (as much as I
                                          > > have experience with) product line I would like to add a link to
                                          >the
                                          > > excellent info file on the site. If you want I will pull it back
                                          >out.
                                          >
                                          >I think that link is perfectly appropriate, although Andrew or Jerry
                                          >will be the final authority on that, since with a few exceptions
                                          >only the manufacturer's main home page is allowed.

                                          G'day

                                          Is the link to a page on the manufacturer's website? If yes, then the
                                          answer is no, but you could mention in the Owner Review that the
                                          manufacturer's website has a useful information page, titled XYZ or
                                          whatever. If the page you are referring to is on another website, can
                                          you please provide a link for review.

                                          Thanks
                                          Sir Andrew
                                        • rayestrella1
                                          ... the ... This is what I have done. It is changed. Thanks, Ray
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jul 10 7:42 AM
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                                            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Priest <apriest@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > Is the link to a page on the manufacturer's website? If yes, then
                                            the
                                            > answer is no, but you could mention in the Owner Review that the
                                            > manufacturer's website has a useful information page, titled XYZ or
                                            > whatever.

                                            This is what I have done. It is changed.

                                            Thanks,

                                            Ray
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