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Thank you TJ Smith - OR - Big Agnes Horse Thief

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  • chcoa
    PLEASE READ THIS EMAIL IN FULL. IT IS MOST IMPORTANT! Thanks for your Owner s Review. It has been added to the Owner Review Queue and will be picked up by an
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 3, 2005
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      PLEASE READ THIS EMAIL IN FULL. IT IS MOST IMPORTANT!

      Thanks for your Owner's Review. It has been added to the Owner
      Review Queue and will be picked up by an Edit Moderator soon. Do
      not worry if nothing happens with it for several days. All our
      Editors are volunteers and your report will be subject to an
      official edit within fourteen days. If you have not had a response
      from an Edit Moderator via the Yahoo Groups list within this
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      To assist in this process, if this is your first Owner Review we ask
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    • colonelcorn76
      Hi TJ, Nice review. I ve made some edits below. Once you ve had a chance to make the appropriate corrections please repost it with REPOST in the subject line.
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 7, 2005
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        Hi TJ,

        Nice review. I've made some edits below. Once you've had a chance to
        make the appropriate corrections please repost it with REPOST in the
        subject line. Once I've taken another look at it I'll give you the
        address you need to upload it to its new home at BGT.

        Thanks again for the nice work,
        Jim
        Edit Moderator


        --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony \(TJ\) Smith"
        <tjsmith1946@g...> wrote:
        http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/OWNER%20REVIEWS/OR%20Horse%20Th
        > ief%20TJ%20Smith/ or http://tinyurl.com/8agey.

        ### FYI - When you put a URL in an email (or posting) it's best to
        skip the punctuation (the period above became part of the link and
        failed it).


        > insulation on the bottom of the bag. Instead, there is a sleeve
        designed to
        > be used with a sleeping pad. According to Big Agnes, the Horse Thief is

        ### What are the dimensions of the sleeve? What size pad have you used
        in the sleeve? Does it have to be a mummy shape? Does BA have any
        recommendations (other than its pads) for a pad?

        ### Are the seams stitched straight thru?

        > At the top of the zipper is a small flap attached with a hook and loop
        > fastener that covers the zipper. I use this to help keep the zipper in
        > position while tossing and turning at night.

        ### Is the zipper attached to the sleeve material on one side & the
        down filled sections on the other? Is there any anti-snagging
        provision (piping, etc.)? Did you have any issues with snagging the
        shell fabric in the zipper?

        > The pad sleeve is simply an extra layer of fabric on the bottom of
        the bag,

        ### What kind of fabric? Is it like the shell?

        > the bag. Following the directions from Big Agnes, I washed the Horse
        Thief
        > in a front-loading washing machine, and dried the bag on air dry. I
        did take

        ### I assume "on air dry" means "in a dryer set on air dry" and is not
        a reference to drying it by hanging it up and letting it air dry.

        > worked, as I had minimal issues after washing with any clumping of
        the down
        > in the bag.

        ### Is the shell fabric still wind/water resistant? If so, did you use
        any special detergent additive when washing (like Nikwax)? Any issues
        with wind or water penetration of the bag during use before washing or
        after?

        > due to becoming too warm. I feel this has shown me the upper comfort
        range
        > for my use.

        ### Do you normally sleep warm or cold? (i.e. do you find sleeping bag
        ratings close to your comfort levels?)

        > poses a problem for using the bag with my Hennessy Hammock, as you
        really
        > need a left zip due to the entry method for the hammock. I have
        found that I

        ### Not me. I haven't found an issue with zipper side with my HH.
        Suggest you remove the word "you" above and rephrase to avoid projection.
      • Anthony (TJ) Smith
        Jim, here is the repost of my OR. I believe I ve addressed all concerns. HTML is at
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 12, 2005
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          Jim, here is the repost of my OR. I believe I've addressed all concerns.
          HTML is at
          http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/OWNER%20REVIEWS/OR%20Horse%20Th
          ief%20Repost%20TJ%20Smith/ or http://tinyurl.com/8fohp

          TJ Smith

          Owner Review
          Big Agnes Horse Thief Sleeping Bag
          November 1, 2005

          Personal Biographical Information
          Name - Anthony (TJ) Smith
          Age - 30
          Gender - Male
          Height - 5' 10" (1.78 m)
          Weight - 155 lb (70 kg)
          Email Address - tjsmith1946@...
          City, State, Country - Pensacola, FL USA
          Background - I have been camping for a little over 5 years now, mostly car
          camping. I have recently begun backpacking, and I am constantly adding new
          gear to my "collection" in an effort to get my gear list tailored more
          towards backpacking, specifically lightweight backpacking. Most of my
          backpacking trips are short duration, not more than one or two nights. I am
          planning some longer trips in the near future.

          Product Information

          Manufacturer - Big Agnes
          Year of Manufacture - 2004
          Manufacturer URL - www.bigagnes.com
          Size - Regular
          Stated Weight - 1 lb 8 oz (680 g)
          Stated Size - 64 in hip girth to 67.5 in shoulder girth (163 cm to 171 cm)
          Stated Compressed Size - 7.75 in x 4.5 in (19.7 cm x 11.4 cm)
          Weight as Delivered - 2 lb 2 oz (964 g) in nylon stuff sack
          Girth as delivered - 44 in Neck, 63 in Chest, 36 in Foot (112 cm, 160 cm and
          91 cm respectively)
          Length as delivered - 78 in (198 cm)
          Compressed size as delivered, using the included nylon sack - 7.5 in x 5.5
          in (19 cm x 14 cm)
          MSRP - US $179

          Field Information
          Locations and Conditions Used
          The Horse Thief has been used in locations throughout north Florida, for a
          total of approximately 20 trail nights. Weather conditions during my use
          have ranged from lows of 30 F (-1 C) to a high of 90 F (32 C), with humidity
          levels from 20% to 100% and precipitation from none to a torrential
          downpour. I have used the Horse Thief exclusively in a Hennessy Hammock,
          both with no pad under the bag and using a simple closed-cell foam pad
          trimmed to fit the pad sleeve of the bag.

          Product Summary
          The Horse Thief is a 35 F (2 C) rated 725 fill goose down mummy sleeping
          bag. Big Agnes uses a unique system for their bags in that there is no
          insulation on the bottom of the bag. Instead, there is a sleeve designed to
          be used with a mummy-shaped sleeping pad. While Big Agnes does recommend
          their own pads for use in the bag (and what manufacturer wouldn't) they do
          say that any mummy pad can be used. The pad sleeve measures 21.25 in (54 cm)
          at its widest point and tapers to 12 in (30.5 cm) at the foot of the bag,
          and is the full length of the bag. The sleeve itself is stitched around the
          perimeter of the sleeve to the edges of the top section of the bag or the
          zipper, depending on the section of the bag the sleeve adjoins. According to
          Big Agnes, the Horse Thief is constructed of "WRM-breathable, water
          resistant and wind proof microfiber ripstop" for both the inner and outer.
          This bag is a series of 13 sections, each of which contains a separate
          quantity of down. These sections cover the top of the bag, and a small
          distance around the sides to the bottom of the bag, ending at the sides of
          the pad sleeve. The sections are divided by sections of fabric stitched to
          both the inner and outer fabric, forming a series of "tubes". There is a
          small Big Agnes logo on the top of the bag, centered on the second baffle
          from the neck.
          The Horse Thief does not have a hood, but does have a pocket attached to the
          head end. This is for using either the Big Agnes Air Core pillow, or for
          stuffing clothing into for use as a pillow. There is a draft collar around
          the neck area of the bag, which is also down-filled. A drawstring cord runs
          through the edge of the neck section, with a cordlock to hold the cord when
          it has been cinched down.
          The Horse Thief is available in two sizes, regular and long, and in either
          right or left zip. The zipper is 54 in (137 cm) long and follows the curve
          of the bag. There is a pull at both the top and bottom of the zipper. The
          bottom zipper pull allows for ventilation while keeping the bag zipped up.
          At the top of the zipper is a small flap attached with a hook and loop
          fastener that covers the zipper. I use this to help keep the zipper in
          position while tossing and turning at night. The zipper is attached to the
          filled section of the bag on one side, and to the pad sleeve on the other
          side. There is no anti-snag mechanism along the zipper, and I have
          experienced some snagging of the zipper but no ripping of the fabric as a
          result of these snags.
          The pad sleeve is simply an extra layer of the same fabric the bag is
          constructed of and attached to the bottom of the bag, covering the full
          length of the bag. There is an opening 13 in (33 cm) from the head end of
          the bag with a flap sealed by a hook and loop patch for inserting a sleeping
          pad into the sleeve, and an opening near the foot end to allow me access to
          pull the bottom of the pad down. There is also a small opening in the sleeve
          on both sides at the head end to allow the inflation valve of a Big Agnes
          sleeping pad to be accessed while I am laying in the bag. Big Agnes also
          advertises with their sleeping pads that the pad can be left in the pad
          sleeve and the entire unit placed into the stuff sack for ease of carrying.
          I do not yet have a Big Agnes pad, so I cannot verify that claim at this
          time.
          The Horse Thief comes with two bags, a cotton storage bag and a nylon stuff
          sack. The cotton bag is used to store the Horse Thief in a uncompressed
          state between trips, and the nylon stuff sack is for compressing the bag
          during travels. In addition there are two small loops of webbing on the foot
          of the bag, used for storing the bag in a hanging position instead of in the
          cotton storage bag. Hanging has been my method of storage when not on the
          trail throughout my usage of the Horse Thief. The included stuff bag is a
          simple cylinder of nylon fabric with a drawstring closure and a cordlock
          similar to the one on the neck closure of the sleeping bag. There is a flap
          of fabric inside the opening that is used to cover the open end of the stuff
          bag after placing the sleeping bag inside. On the bottom of the stuff bag is
          a strap that I use to help hold the stuff bag when removing the sleeping bag
          from within.


          Conclusions
          The Horse Thief is my first foray into the world of down camping equipment.
          This required some adjustment in my methods due to the care needed to ensure
          a long life for the down, such as not leaving the bag compressed and being
          careful to not let the bag get too wet.
          So far, the bag has held up well under use. I have accumulated approximately
          20 trail nights in the time I have owned my Horse Thief, and it has just
          recently had any noticeable loss of feathers through the fabric (and very
          few at that). The Horse Thief appears to handle humidity well, with no
          noticeable difference in loft regardless of the humidity level. I have
          experienced minimal snagging of the fabric with the zipper, but I have not
          noticed any damage to the fabric from the zipper snags.
          The Horse Thief has done a good job of handling surface dirt, with most of
          the dirt easy to brush off. The bag had recently begun to develop a
          body-type odor, which is most likely due to not using a separate liner with
          the bag. Following the directions from Big Agnes, I washed the Horse Thief
          in a front-loading washing machine, and dried the bag in a dryer set on air
          dry. I used a detergent designed for delicate fabrics, and also took a hint
          from several other users of down products and placed a tennis ball in the
          dryer with the bag to "beat" the down clumps apart. This appears to have
          worked, as I had minimal issues after washing with any clumping of the down
          in the bag. As best as I can tell, I have not lost any of the wind and water
          resistance as a result of washing the bag. I do make an extra effort to
          ensure the bag remains dry throughout my usage, so water resistance would be
          difficult at best for me to judge.
          In my experiences, I tend to actually sleep within the rated ranges for most
          of the sleeping bags I have used, neither finding them warmer or cooler than
          the rated temperatures but usually right on for me. I find the Horse Thief
          to be a very comfortable bag within its rated temperature range. I do find
          it a bit too warm for the higher end of temperatures I camp in. However, at
          the higher temperatures (above about 85 F [29 C]) I tend to not use any
          sleeping bag at all. In early October of 2005, I used my Horse Thief on an
          overnight trip with a low of 82 F (28 C). I placed the Horse Thief in my
          hammock prior to retiring for the night, and climbed in to lay on top of the
          bag as it was not cold enough to get in the bag. Within 10 minutes of
          climbing into my hammock, I had to remove the bag due to becoming too warm.
          I feel this has shown me the upper comfort range for my use.
          I have had the Horse Thief down to 30 F (-1 C) during April of 2005 in
          Suwanee, Florida. This again was in my Hennessy Hammock, and using a
          closed-cell foam pad beneath the bag but not in the pad sleeve. I wore
          mid-weight pants and shirt as a base layer, an Ex-Officio Give-N-Go Skivvy
          top, a synthetic t-shirt, wool hiking socks and a knit watch cap. I was
          quite comfortable with this setup, and actually had to remove my synthetic
          t-shirt during the night because I had gotten almost too warm for comfort.
          This is the coldest trip I have taken so far with the Horse Thief, and feel
          that I could continue using the bag in similar conditions. My only issue
          with this use is the lack of a hood system to help keep my head warm, which
          the watch cap does help with.
          I feel given my build, the Horse Thief allows me room to roll from side to
          side. I tend to not spend the night in any one position and require room to
          roll back and forth. The girth of the Horse Thief is adequate for me to have
          this range of movement.
          The Horse Thief has lofted well after removing it from the nylon stuff sack
          throughout my usage. Upon setting up camp, I take the bag out and place it
          into my hammock to let it loft before going to bed. This gives the bag a
          minimum of one hour to loft, and on most occasions two to three hours. This
          appears to be more than adequate time for the bag to loft up.
          One issue with the functionality of the bag that I have encountered, and is
          totally my own fault, is having a right side zipper on the bag I have. This
          poses a problem for using the bag with my Hennessy Hammock, as I find a left
          zip bag makes for much easier entry into the bag with it placed in the
          hammock. I have found that I can still enter and exit the bag while having
          the bag in the hammock, it just requires a bit more maneuvering on my part
          to make this work. I would definitely pay more attention to the zip side if
          I had the opportunity to make this purchase again.
          Overall, the Horse Thief appears well constructed. I have not noticed any
          "wandering" seams, and no loose threads. During my use, I have not
          experienced any threads coming loose. I have only had a small loss of
          feathers from the bag, less than six feathers total that I have noticed. The
          bag has retained its loft well, and has remained comfortable.

          Pros and Cons
          Pros
          1. Personal temperature comfort range (low 80s F [27 C] to 30 F [-1 C])
          2. Small compressed size
          3. Light weight

          Cons
          1. Extra care down requires
          2. Lack of insulation on the bottom (remedied with the use of a pad)





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • colonelcorn76
          Hi TJ, You ll want to look at your HTML to add some space between paragraphs. It looks a little monolithic and hard to read as it stands now. Other then that
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 18, 2005
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            Hi TJ,
            You'll want to look at your HTML to add some space between paragraphs.
            It looks a little monolithic and hard to read as it stands now. Other
            then that it looks good to go.

            You can upload it to BGT at this url:
            http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Sleeping%20Bags/Big%20Agnes%20Horse%20Thief%20Mummy%20Bag/
            or
            http://tinyurl.com/8m3tr
            <<<<<Use either link>>>>>

            When uploading your Owner Review, please ensure you select the button
            marked Owner Review.

            If you require assistance with your upload, please ask in our Yahoo!
            support group, BGTFileUploadHelp @
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BGTFileUploadHelp/

            Thanks again for the good work.
            Jim
            Edit Moderator




            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony \(TJ\) Smith"
            <tjsmith1946@g...> wrote:
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.