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RE: [BackpackGearTest] Amigo mermaids

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  • Jerry Goller
    http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet. ... From: Roger Caffin [mailto:r.caffin@tpg.com.au]
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
      reviews and tests on the planet.



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Roger Caffin [mailto:r.caffin@...]
      Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 3:25 PM
      To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Amigo mermaids


      Rebecca wrote

      > The H20 Amigo is a 7.5 oz gravity feed water filtration system. Inline
      > filter effectively removes 99.8% of waterborne contaminants to assure
      > quality drinking water from suspect sources.

      Sorry, but ...
      Does this unit have any EPA certification?

      ### The only filter I know of that carries an EPA certification is the
      General Ecology First Need Water Purifiers. All others (Katadyn Pur, MSR,
      etc.), that I know of, are listed as filters, not purifiers. The EPA has no
      certification or standards for filters.

      Is there any more information about the pore size or independant lab results
      for what it will remove in the categories of protozoa, bacteria, viruses and
      chemicals?

      ### Contact Seychelle. Among others, I saw a report from some Australian
      government lab. It was three years ago so that is all I remember at it.

      ### No filter is EPA certified because, as I understand it, there is no EPA
      certification for filters. Purifiers yes, filters, no. It is a filter, not a
      purifier.

      My concern is that '99.8%' removal does not meet any EPA standards for
      anything, and if this is applied to either protozoa (eg Giardia) or bacteria
      (eg E coli) it would leave enough nasties in the water for it to remain a
      health hazard. It would be very useful to know what risks we might be taking
      with our own health.

      ### Then I don't think I'd risk testing this one, if I were you. Boiling is
      the only certain way to kill *all* the nasties under any water conditions. I
      suggest you use that. BTW, none of the major filter manufacturers, that I am
      aware of, advertise their products as EPA approved. Also, lab testing
      indicates that the municipal water supplies of most all US cities of any
      significant size have levels of the aforementioned nasties higher that the
      listed after filter levels listed for the Seychelle. Or any other major
      manufacturer's filters either, for that matter. If you come to the US don't
      risk drinking the water.

      If it does use the Seychelle filter cartridge as someone suggested, does
      this mean it would be susceptable to the same risks of breakage? If not the
      Seychelle cartridge, then any idea what materials and pore size?

      ### Yes, it uses a Seychelle filter. The only breakage problems the
      Seychelle has is if you take it apart. These filters come preassembled so
      there is no reason to ever take them apart. Leave it alone and you can't
      break it.... ;o)

      Any other questions Roger?
      Jerry
    • Roger Caffin
      ... no ... That is my understanding too, and I have bought and used all the others. However, some of the filter suppliers do claim to meet the EPA standards
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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        Jerry replied:

        > ### The only filter I know of that carries an EPA certification is the
        > General Ecology First Need Water Purifiers. All others (Katadyn Pur, MSR,
        > etc.), that I know of, are listed as filters, not purifiers. The EPA has
        no
        > certification or standards for filters.
        That is my understanding too, and I have bought and used all the others.
        However, some of the filter suppliers do claim to meet the EPA standards for
        protozoa and bacteria, and have lab results to suport these claims. I find
        that reassuring.

        > > Is there any more information about the pore size or independant lab
        results
        > > for what it will remove in the categories of protozoa, bacteria, viruses
        and
        > > chemicals?
        > ### Contact Seychelle.
        OK, it is a Seychelle filter. That is important information which was not
        listed on the web site.

        > > My concern is that '99.8%' removal does not meet any EPA standards for
        > > anything, and if this is applied to either protozoa (eg Giardia) or
        bacteria
        > > (eg E coli) it would leave enough nasties in the water for it to remain
        a
        > > health hazard. It would be very useful to know what risks we might be
        taking
        > > with our own health.
        > ### Then I don't think I'd risk testing this one, if I were you.
        I agree. I will opt out.


        > Boiling is
        > the only certain way to kill *all* the nasties under any water conditions.
        I
        > suggest you use that. BTW, none of the major filter manufacturers, that I
        am
        > aware of, advertise their products as EPA approved.
        Where I have no worries about viruses I use a Katadyn Hiker. It is somewhat
        of a 'standard' around the world. Where there are virus concerns I use
        Coghlans iodine, although I would like to try the Aquamira when it becomes
        available in Australia, or possibly the Miox. These latter two both use
        chlorine dioxide, which is even better than pentavalent iodine.

        > Also, lab testing
        > indicates that the municipal water supplies of most all US cities of any
        > significant size have levels of the aforementioned nasties higher that the
        > listed after filter levels listed for the Seychelle. Or any other major
        > manufacturer's filters either, for that matter. If you come to the US
        don't
        > risk drinking the water.
        OUCH!
        (Bring on the Coke?)

        Sorry, but I have had Giardia a couple times (I know where the source was)
        and as a result I am a trifle sensitive to water safety. The affliction is
        pretty bad, but the cure is even worse.

        Cheers
        Roger Caffin
      • Jerry Goller
        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet. ... From: Roger Caffin [mailto:r.caffin@tpg.com.au]
        Message 3 of 6 , May 1, 2004
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          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
          reviews and tests on the planet.



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Roger Caffin [mailto:r.caffin@...]
          Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 5:24 PM
          To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [BackpackGearTest] RE: Amigo mermaids


          Jerry replied:

          > ### The only filter I know of that carries an EPA certification is the
          > General Ecology First Need Water Purifiers. All others (Katadyn Pur,
          > MSR, etc.), that I know of, are listed as filters, not purifiers. The
          > EPA has
          no
          > certification or standards for filters.
          That is my understanding too, and I have bought and used all the others.
          However, some of the filter suppliers do claim to meet the EPA standards for
          protozoa and bacteria, and have lab results to suport these claims. I find
          that reassuring.

          @@@ I guess they can claim pretty much anything they like.... ;o)

          > > Is there any more information about the pore size or independant lab
          results
          > > for what it will remove in the categories of protozoa, bacteria,
          > > viruses
          and
          > > chemicals?
          > ### Contact Seychelle.
          OK, it is a Seychelle filter. That is important information which was not
          listed on the web site.

          @@@ I can't think of a manufacturer that lists the OEM's for their gear or
          parts of their gear. And that isn't just outdoor manufacturers. But it's
          pretty easy to identify on sight.

          > > My concern is that '99.8%' removal does not meet any EPA standards
          > > for anything, and if this is applied to either protozoa (eg Giardia)
          > > or
          bacteria
          > > (eg E coli) it would leave enough nasties in the water for it to
          > > remain
          a
          > > health hazard. It would be very useful to know what risks we might
          > > be
          taking
          > > with our own health.
          > ### Then I don't think I'd risk testing this one, if I were you.
          I agree. I will opt out.

          @@@ Good plan.


          > Boiling is
          > the only certain way to kill *all* the nasties under any water
          > conditions.
          I
          > suggest you use that. BTW, none of the major filter manufacturers,
          > that I
          am
          > aware of, advertise their products as EPA approved.
          Where I have no worries about viruses I use a Katadyn Hiker. It is somewhat
          of a 'standard' around the world. Where there are virus concerns I use
          Coghlans iodine, although I would like to try the Aquamira when it becomes
          available in Australia, or possibly the Miox. These latter two both use
          chlorine dioxide, which is even better than pentavalent iodine.


          @@@ It is *much* better, in that it actually works.... ;o)

          @@@ Iodine isn't nearly as effective as they would have you believe,
          particularly in practical concentrations. The military has gone away from it
          for a good reason. Notice they never mention CRYPTOSPORIDIUM, among other
          things.

          > Also, lab testing
          > indicates that the municipal water supplies of most all US cities of
          > any significant size have levels of the aforementioned nasties higher
          > that the listed after filter levels listed for the Seychelle. Or any
          > other major manufacturer's filters either, for that matter. If you
          > come to the US
          don't
          > risk drinking the water.
          OUCH!
          (Bring on the Coke?)

          @@@ Hasn't killed any of us yet.... ;o)

          Sorry, but I have had Giardia a couple times (I know where the source was)
          and as a result I am a trifle sensitive to water safety. The affliction is
          pretty bad, but the cure is even worse.

          @@@ Interesting. I've never been dosed, in 50 years of backpacking (although
          I did get real live, honest to God, dysentery in Viet Nam a few times from
          untreated well water). We rarely had halizone (iodine) tabs so we just
          didn't treat the water. I don't even use a filter all the time. I guess the
          idea of growing your own bugs to kill the other bugs must work... ;o) I
          also believe it is because I rarely hike with anyone else.

          Jerry
        • Roger Caffin
          ... for ... find ... True. However, on request they have provided me with photocopies of reports from Universities and accredited micro-biology testing
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2, 2004
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            > > However, some of the filter suppliers do claim to meet the EPA standards
            for
            > > protozoa and bacteria, and have lab results to support these claims. I
            find
            > > that reassuring.
            > @@@ I guess they can claim pretty much anything they like.... ;o)
            True. However, on request they have provided me with photocopies of reports
            from Universities and accredited micro-biology testing organisations from
            around the world, plus copies of published research papers. Could all be
            fudged, but somehow it seems unlikely.

            > > available in Australia, or possibly the Miox. These latter two both use
            > > chlorine dioxide, which is even better than pentavalent iodine.
            > @@@ It is *much* better, in that it actually works.... ;o)
            Well, the pentavalent iodine was developed under contract to NASA for use in
            space. I have read some of the research papers published in international
            journals. But it is true that crypto is fairly resistant to iodine and even
            pentavalent iodine takes several hours to work on it.

            > > > other major manufacturer's filters either, for that matter. If you
            > > > come to the US don't risk drinking the water.
            > > OUCH!
            > > (Bring on the Coke?)
            > @@@ Hasn't killed any of us yet.... ;o)
            Er ... You are talking about the Coke? The epitome of American culture?
            :-)

            It does seem that some people do not develop the symptoms of giardiasis.
            Perhaps you are lucky?

            Cheers
            Roger Caffin
          • Jerry Goller
            http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet. ... From: Roger Caffin [mailto:r.caffin@tpg.com.au]
            Message 5 of 6 , May 2, 2004
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              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
              reviews and tests on the planet.



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Roger Caffin [mailto:r.caffin@...]
              Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 4:38 AM
              To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [BackpackGearTest] RE: Amigo mermaids


              > > However, some of the filter suppliers do claim to meet the EPA
              > > standards
              for
              > > protozoa and bacteria, and have lab results to support these claims.
              > > I
              find
              > > that reassuring.
              > @@@ I guess they can claim pretty much anything they like.... ;o)
              True. However, on request they have provided me with photocopies of reports
              from Universities and accredited micro-biology testing organisations from
              around the world, plus copies of published research papers. Could all be
              fudged, but somehow it seems unlikely.

              $$$ Then it might be a good idea for you to make that request to
              Seychelle..... ;o)



              It does seem that some people do not develop the symptoms of giardiasis.
              Perhaps you are lucky?

              $$$ That has actually crossed my mind. I am pretty much non-reactive to all
              of the poison ivy, oak, etc. and bad water doesn't even seem to bother me
              all that much. Or I'm really lucky and never get exposed to any of it.

              Jerry
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