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Owner Review - Simon Metals Titanium Stakes - Michael Lissner

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  • backpackinggeartestdummy
    Pasted below: One owner review. Clickable below: One link to it in the test file. Also clickable below: a smaller length link to it in the test file. Please
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 2, 2004
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      Pasted below: One owner review.
      Clickable below: One link to it in the test file.
      Also clickable below: a smaller length link to it in the test file.
      Please enjoy.

      http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/OWNER%0REVIEWS/Titanium%
      20Stakes%20-%20Michael%20Lissner/

      http://tinyurl.com/2qbsd

      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      =====================================
      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      Owner Review of
      Simon Metals Titanium Stakes
      By Michael Lissner
      2 January 2004

      Contents of Review:
      1. Tester Biographical Information
      2. Backpacking Background
      3. Product Information
      4. Product Description
      5. Comments
      6. Summary

      Tester Biographical Information:
      Name: Michael Jay Lissner
      Date of Birth: 9 June 1982
      Gender: Male
      Height: 6'6" (198 cm)
      Weight: 185lb (86 kg)
      Email Address: yourmothership@...
      City of Current Residence: Depending on time of year: San Diego,
      CA / Claremont, CA

      Backpacking Background:
      I was first introduced into backpacking through the Boy Scouts, and
      it was my love of backpacking that made me stick all the way through
      and get my Eagle. After becoming too old to continue in Boy Scouts,
      I had trouble motivating myself to plan my own trips, and did not
      backpack for a few years, until I realized that I should thru-hike
      the PCT. I am currently in a multiyear training program, practicing
      techniques, studying backpacking literature, getting in shape,
      planning the many wee details and perhaps most importantly,
      converting my ultra-heavy Boy Scout techniques into ones more suited
      to ultra-light thru-hiking. My current style is a fairly minimalist
      one relying on more intelligence and discomfort and less on safety
      gear and toys. I would describe it as nearly ultra-light status, but
      not quite there yet. My usual stomping grounds are the Laguna
      Mountains (when in San Diego), the San Bernardino Mountains and
      deserts of southern California (when in Claremont), and occasionally-
      when gas prices allow- the southern Sierras.

      Product Information:
      Manufacturer: Titan Mountain Sports, a division of Simon Metals
      Manufacturer's URLs: www.titanmountainsports.com or
      www.simonmetals.com
      Product Name: Titanium Skewer Tent Stake
      Year of Manufacture: 2003
      Suggested Retail Price: $2.95 (US)
      Advertised Weight of Stake: 6 g (.25 oz)*
      Measured Weight of Stake: 6.3 g (.22 oz)
      Advertised Length of Stake: 15.2 cm (6 in)
      Measured Length of Stake: 15.7 cm (6.2 in)
      Advertised Diameter of Stake: 3.2 mm (1/8 in)
      Measured Diameter of Stake: 3.2 mm (1/8 in)
      *The conversions made by the manufacturer are not wholly correct: 6
      g actually equals .21 oz, and .25 oz actually equals 7.1g.

      Product Description:
      These stakes consist of a piece of titanium rod that has been bent
      into a shepherd's hook at one end, and have been ground to
      approximately a 60 degree angle at the other. The use of titanium in
      these stakes makes them stronger than any similarly designed
      aluminum stakes, but without reducing the amount of material that is
      used to make them (i.e. reducing the diameter of the rod) they would
      weigh significantly more than similar aluminum ones would. Hence,
      rather than using the thicker diameter material that other stakes
      are made from, these are made from uncommonly thin material, making
      them feel a little bit wiry.

      Comments:
      I purchased eight (one for each of the four corners and four for the
      sides) of these stakes online while working on making an ultralight
      silnylon tarp in hopes that they would be the lightest and strongest
      way to hold down its corners and sides (for the ends, I knew a more
      powerful stake would be necessary, so I purchased two 7057-T6 model
      stakes made by Mountain Safety Research). Before purchasing any of
      these stakes, I did a fair amount of research into what kind of
      stakes would best satisfy my needs, and I settled on these because I
      had gotten the impression that they would be the best combination of
      durability, holding power and lightness of weight.
      My biggest fear with the titanium stakes was that their diameter
      would be so thin that they would not have sufficient holding power
      in softer dirt to hold up my tarp should a strong wind blow. Thus
      far, I have used them in the Adirondack Mountains of New York, and
      during several two to four day backpacking trips to the San
      Bernardino Mountains. During none of these trips did I have too much
      trouble with the wind. However, as one day came to a close, my
      hiking partner and I found a nice sandy place that we decided would
      be the most comfortable place to sleep, and with blatant disregard
      to my aforementioned tent stake fears, we began setting up the tent
      there. This turned out to be a semi-successful, semi-unsuccessful
      endeavor. The tarp that we were using required that the stakes stay
      in place in order to stay up. The stakes basically work in pairs
      pulling in four opposite directions (e.g. North, South, East and
      West). If one stake from one of these pairs were to fail, the weight
      of the tarp, and the tension created by the six other stakes that
      remained in the ground would be directly transferred to its partner,
      and in most cases, it too would fail, and the tarp would topple to
      the ground. Hence, it is of utmost importance that none of the
      stakes give up their ground (pun intended). During our brilliant
      decision to set up the tent in soft sand, we indeed had a rather
      difficult time of it, and only managed to get the tent secure by
      means of large rocks placed immediately inside the stakes, under the
      guy lines of the tent. Once we had the tent set up this way though,
      we experienced no further problems. During all of our experiences
      with these stakes, this one included, it seemed that the stakes
      would either fail immediately, or not fail at all. I take this as a
      good thing, because I do not mind if a stake fails, so long as I am
      not under the tent at the time.
      After having used these stakes numerous times in various types of
      dirt, I have to admit that they look pretty much as good as new.
      There are two pieces of evidence that they have ever been used: (1)
      Little bits of dirt are clinging to the stakes here and there, and
      (2) The top of the shepherd's hook on many of them is somewhat
      scratched up from being pounded by rocks into dirt that was
      landmined with other, bigger rocks. None of them are bent, none of
      their tips are blunted, and they remain in good condition. I am very
      happy with the durability that I have experienced thus far.

      Summary:
      After having used these stakes for some time, I am convinced that
      their extra cost was worthwhile. Though they are not especially
      effective in loose or soft ground, they do save me weight and bulk
      in my pack while delivering improved durability over most (if not
      all) other lightweight options.
    • Andrew Priest
      ... G day Thanks Michael for your Owner s Review. Do not worry if nothing happens with it for a few days. All our editors are volunteers and your report will
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 2, 2004
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        At 06:30 AM 03/01/2004, you wrote:
        >Owner Review of
        >Simon Metals Titanium Stakes
        >By Michael Lissner
        >2 January 2004
        G'day

        Thanks Michael for your Owner's Review. Do not worry if nothing happens
        with it for a few days. All our editors are volunteers and your report
        will be subject to an official edit within seven days. If you have not had
        a response from an Edit Moderator via the list within this timeframe,
        please let me know directly at apriest@....

        You may receive edits or comments from other members of the group. These
        edits and comments, while not official, should be considered carefully, and
        if you find them substantial, revise and re-post your review. Incorporating
        member edits and re-posting to the list will usually result in a better
        review, as well as making things easier for the official editor. Please put
        REPOST at the start of your re-post, if you take this route.

        If you are new to the BackpackGearTest.org, welcome to the community! The
        editors will work with you, within their own time constraints, to get your
        first two Owner Reviews approved and upload in a timely manner. Once these
        first two Owner Reviews have been approved and you have submitted your
        Tester Agreement you will be eligible to start applying for Tests.

        If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask via the
        list or contact me directly.

        Regards
        Andrew Priest
        Chief Edit Moderator


        --
        http://BackpackGearTest.org : The most comprehensive interactive gear
        reviews and tests on the planet


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tom Jones
        A lazy Saturday at home for a change. Let me add a few more edits for you, but since this is an unoffical edit, consider them, then use your judgement as to
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 10, 2004
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          A lazy Saturday at home for a change. Let me add a few more edits
          for you, but since this is an unoffical edit, consider them, then use
          your judgement as to whether to include them.

          --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "backpackinggeartestdummy"
          <mlissner@p...> wrote:

          > Product Description:
          > These stakes consist of a piece of titanium rod that has been bent
          > into a shepherd's hook at one end, and have been ground to
          > approximately a 60 degree angle at the other.

          EDIT==> What he said. Also use "has been" in one place and "have
          been" in the other.

          The use of titanium in these stakes makes them stronger than any
          similarly designed aluminum stakes, but without reducing the amount
          of material that is used to make them (i.e. reducing the diameter of
          the rod) they would weigh significantly more than similar aluminum
          ones would. Hence, rather than using the thicker diameter material
          that other stakes are made from, these are made from uncommonly thin
          material, making them feel a little bit wiry.

          EDIT==> I know what you're trying to say, but... Well maybe I
          don't. You are making two different points: A. a theoretical
          discussion about the design of tent stakes using two different metals
          with different properties; and B. your impressions of the choices
          they made and how you think they will perform. I would lead with B,
          then explain it with the theoretical discussion.

          EDIT==> Note: "thicker diameter" does not make sense. It is
          either "thicker" or "of greater diameter". Same problem elsewhere.

          EDIT==> I'm a bit confused, because my minds want to apply "thick"
          and "thin" to the wall thickness of the tube. But we are talking
          solid rod, right? I would avoid "thick" and "thin" and go
          with "small diameter" and "large diameter".

          COMMENT==> Measurments would really help this discussion. Got
          calipers?

          NIT COMMENT==>
          "The use of titanium in these stakes makes them stronger than any
          similarly designed aluminum stakes..."

          There are many ways that the design can be similar. I can make a
          similarly designed aluminum stake that is 10X as strong - just scale
          it up 3X in size. The phrase "similarly designed" is not specific
          enough - and ends up being confusing. You probably mean "made from
          the same diameter of solid rod", in which case your point is true.

          Anyway, I think you need to work this paragraph over.
          >
          > Comments:
          > I purchased eight (one for each of the four corners and four for
          the sides) of these stakes online while working on making an
          ultralight silnylon tarp in hopes that they would be the lightest and
          strongest way to hold down its corners and sides (for the ends, I
          knew a more powerful stake would be necessary, so I purchased two
          7057-T6 model stakes made by Mountain Safety Research).

          EDIT==> Your parenthetic phrase is actually a sentence. Make it a
          second sentence.

          Before purchasing any of
          > these stakes, I did a fair amount of research into what kind of
          > stakes would best satisfy my needs, and I settled on these because
          I had gotten the impression that they would be the best combination
          of durability, holding power and lightness of weight.
          > My biggest fear with the titanium stakes was that their diameter
          > would be so thin

          EDIT==> "small", not "thin"

          that they would not have sufficient holding power
          > in softer dirt to hold up my tarp should a strong wind blow. Thus
          > far, I have used them in the Adirondack Mountains of New York, and
          > during several two to four day backpacking trips to the San
          > Bernardino Mountains.

          That's all I saw. Thanks for an interesting review of an interesting
          piece of gear.

          Tom
        • Mike Lissner
          Wow Tom, you are good. To think that all these comments got past the official editor. I will incorporate pretty much all of them into the review and post it no
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 11, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Wow Tom, you are good. To think that all these comments got past the
            official editor. I will incorporate pretty much all of them into the review
            and post it no later than later this afternoon (LA time that is). -mike


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Tom Jones" <tom@...>
            To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:11 PM
            Subject: [BackpackGearTest] EDIT: OR - Simon Metals Titanium Stakes -
            Michael Lissner


            > A lazy Saturday at home for a change. Let me add a few more edits
            > for you, but since this is an unoffical edit, consider them, then use
            > your judgement as to whether to include them.
            >
            > --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "backpackinggeartestdummy"
            > <mlissner@p...> wrote:
            >
            > > Product Description:
            > > These stakes consist of a piece of titanium rod that has been bent
            > > into a shepherd's hook at one end, and have been ground to
            > > approximately a 60 degree angle at the other.
            >
            > EDIT==> What he said. Also use "has been" in one place and "have
            > been" in the other.
            >
            > The use of titanium in these stakes makes them stronger than any
            > similarly designed aluminum stakes, but without reducing the amount
            > of material that is used to make them (i.e. reducing the diameter of
            > the rod) they would weigh significantly more than similar aluminum
            > ones would. Hence, rather than using the thicker diameter material
            > that other stakes are made from, these are made from uncommonly thin
            > material, making them feel a little bit wiry.
            >
            > EDIT==> I know what you're trying to say, but... Well maybe I
            > don't. You are making two different points: A. a theoretical
            > discussion about the design of tent stakes using two different metals
            > with different properties; and B. your impressions of the choices
            > they made and how you think they will perform. I would lead with B,
            > then explain it with the theoretical discussion.
            >
            > EDIT==> Note: "thicker diameter" does not make sense. It is
            > either "thicker" or "of greater diameter". Same problem elsewhere.
            >
            > EDIT==> I'm a bit confused, because my minds want to apply "thick"
            > and "thin" to the wall thickness of the tube. But we are talking
            > solid rod, right? I would avoid "thick" and "thin" and go
            > with "small diameter" and "large diameter".
            >
            > COMMENT==> Measurments would really help this discussion. Got
            > calipers?
            >
            > NIT COMMENT==>
            > "The use of titanium in these stakes makes them stronger than any
            > similarly designed aluminum stakes..."
            >
            > There are many ways that the design can be similar. I can make a
            > similarly designed aluminum stake that is 10X as strong - just scale
            > it up 3X in size. The phrase "similarly designed" is not specific
            > enough - and ends up being confusing. You probably mean "made from
            > the same diameter of solid rod", in which case your point is true.
            >
            > Anyway, I think you need to work this paragraph over.
            > >
            > > Comments:
            > > I purchased eight (one for each of the four corners and four for
            > the sides) of these stakes online while working on making an
            > ultralight silnylon tarp in hopes that they would be the lightest and
            > strongest way to hold down its corners and sides (for the ends, I
            > knew a more powerful stake would be necessary, so I purchased two
            > 7057-T6 model stakes made by Mountain Safety Research).
            >
            > EDIT==> Your parenthetic phrase is actually a sentence. Make it a
            > second sentence.
            >
            > Before purchasing any of
            > > these stakes, I did a fair amount of research into what kind of
            > > stakes would best satisfy my needs, and I settled on these because
            > I had gotten the impression that they would be the best combination
            > of durability, holding power and lightness of weight.
            > > My biggest fear with the titanium stakes was that their diameter
            > > would be so thin
            >
            > EDIT==> "small", not "thin"
            >
            > that they would not have sufficient holding power
            > > in softer dirt to hold up my tarp should a strong wind blow. Thus
            > > far, I have used them in the Adirondack Mountains of New York, and
            > > during several two to four day backpacking trips to the San
            > > Bernardino Mountains.
            >
            > That's all I saw. Thanks for an interesting review of an interesting
            > piece of gear.
            >
            > Tom
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >
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