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Re: Redfeather Hike Snowshoes Initial Report & OOP

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  • Tom Jones
    Cool. Thanks for getting it out before taking off. I like the fractions, but... I think they are not going to show up in the html. Be sure to upload them to
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Cool. Thanks for getting it out before taking off.

      I like the fractions, but... I think they are not going to show up
      in the html. Be sure to upload them to the test folder and check
      everything carefully before doing the real upload.

      I find your description clear, not confusing. A very good
      description, see comments below. A really high-quality initial
      report - very well-written.

      I have EDITS (consider mandatory) and COMMENTS (consider optional).

      --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Christine" <ckorhonen@a...>
      wrote:
      > Hi Tom,
      >
      > I wanted to post this now since I'll be going out of town tomorrow
      > until Dec 7. This was a very confusing report to write, and I'm
      sure
      > it's even more confusing to read. I don't have a digital camera or
      > I'd add some pictures to make it more clear. Any suggestions you
      > have on straightening it out would be great. There are a lot of
      > measurements. Right now I have the inches in fractions, but was
      > thinking about changing that to decimals (1.25" instead of 1
      1/4").
      > Let me know what you think. I'll be able to make corrections and
      > post when I get back
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      > Christine
      >
      >
      > Redfeather Hike Snowshoes Initial Report
      >
      > Personal Information:
      > Name: Christine Korhonen
      > Age: 30
      > Gender: female
      > Height: 5'4" (1.6 m)
      > Weight: 165 lbs (75 kg)

      EDIT==> drop the s off lbs. Abbreviated units are singular.

      > Shoe size: women's 8½ (EU 39)
      > E-mail: chris@w...
      > Location: Western Montana
      > Date: November 30, 2003
      >
      > Backpacking Background:
      > I recently moved to Montana where I'm becoming re-acquainted with
      > winter. I currently hike and cross country ski, and now I'm
      > going to attempt some winter camping and snowshoeing. I'm a
      > lightweight backpacker mentally, if not always in practice. I've
      > gotten my summer multi-day pack weight down to 13 lbs (6 kg), but
      > winter backpacking is still new to me, and my winter pack weight
      > hovers around 35 lbs (16 kg).

      EDIT==> drop the s on the lb.
      COMMENT==> I think you would do better saying "cross-country ski".
      >
      > Snowshoe Experience:
      > I grew up using wood and rawhide snowshoes. I could never go far
      > because the snowshoes were wide, and I was constantly tripping
      > myself. I've used aluminum frame snowshoes a few times but know
      > little about this new kind of snowshoes.

      EDIT==> "snowshoe" in the last usage.

      >
      > Product Information:
      > Manufacturer: Redfeather Snowshoes
      > URL: www.redfeather.com
      > Product/Model: Hike Series H30
      > MSRP: $119 US
      > Weight listed on hangtag: 3 lbs (1.4 kg)
      > Weight listed on website: 3.7 lbs (1.7 kg)
      > Measured weight: 3.8 lbs (1.7 kg)
      > Listed strength: supports up to 220 lbs (100 kg)
      > Measured dimensions: 30 in (76 cm) long, 9 in (23 cm) at widest
      point

      EDIT==> drop the s off the lb, all places.
      >
      > Packaging:
      > The Hike snowshoes were accompanied by a glossy hangtag and
      > snowshoeing guide. The hangtag has pictures of the Hike snowshoe,
      > descriptions of its features, specifications of the four models in
      > the Hike series, and information on the Redfeather warranty. The
      > specifications on the hangtag are different from those listed on
      the
      > Redfeather website. The hangtag lists the Hike H30's weight at 3
      > lbs (1.4 kg). The website lists its weight at 3.7 lbs (1.7 kg),
      but
      > incorrectly converts this to 1.4 kg (3 lbs). When I weighed the
      > snowshoes, they came in at 3.8 lbs (1.7 kg). Most of the metric
      > conversions listed on the Redfeather website are incorrect.

      EDIT==> drop s off the lb
      >
      > The snowshoeing guide consists of three stapled pages describing
      the
      > Redfeather story, product line, warranty, and the who, what, where,
      > when, why and how of snowshoeing. For me, the most important
      > information was found on the last page, titled "Accessories."
      > Under the subheading "Bindings" and hidden in the middle of the
      > page are instructions on how to fit the snowshoes.
      >
      > Snowshoe Description:
      > The frame for the Redfeather Hike snowshoes is made from hollow
      > 7/8" (22 mm) diameter aluminum tubing. The frame is shaped in a
      > rough oval, over which black plastic decking is stretched. The
      > decking folds over the frame and is riveted back on itself. The
      > rivets are each stamped with a picture of a feather. The frame of
      > the Hike H30 model is 30" (76 cm) long and 9" (23 cm) wide at the
      > hinge, the snowshoe's widest point. At this point the aluminum
      frame
      > bends up at a 45-degree angle, and there is a large (4" x 6" [10 cm
      x
      > 15 cm]) semi-circle cutout in the decking.
      >
      > Live Action Hinge: The hinge is a 1/8" (3 mm) thick strip of
      > rubber that is 1½" (38 mm) wide and extends the width of the
      > snowshoe. The rubber is folded over the frame and attached in the
      > same manner as the decking but using larger rivets. The front foot
      > bed and front crampon are bolted together through the center of the
      > hinge. When the snowshoes are worn, the ball of the foot rests on
      > the front foot bed over the hinge. The toes pass through the
      > semicircular cutout in the decking, which is raised by the 45-
      degree
      > angle of the frame. With each step, the foot bed pivots up, the
      > hinge twists at its center and the crampon is pushed down into the
      > snow. At the conclusion of the step, the rubber hinge springs
      back.
      > The ability of the hinge to snap back is what gives the hinge
      > its "Live Action."

      COMMENT==> while either usage is correct, I think it would be clearer
      throughout if you used the spelling "footbed" rather than "foot bed".
      (Many places).
      >
      > Foot bed: There are two separate sections to the foot bed, the
      front
      > and the heel. Both sections are made of grey injection molded
      > polyurethane. The front foot bed is 4 3/4" x 2½ " (12 cm
      > x 6.4 cm) and displays the trademark feather in relief along with
      the
      > letter R or L designating side. The heel plate is 2¼"x 3¼" (5.7 cm
      x
      > 8.3 cm). It has raised striations to provide traction and is
      > separated from the front section by a 1 3/4" (4.5 cm) gap. The
      front
      > foot bed is bolted to the hinge along its forward edge. The back
      > edge of the foot bed is not attached to the snowshoe, and because
      of
      > this the front foot bed is free to pivot at the hinge. The heel
      bed
      > is immobile and bolted to the snowshoe decking and back crampon.

      EDIT==> "injection-molded"
      >
      > Stainless steel crampons: There are two stainless steel crampons
      on
      > each Hike snowshoe. The front crampon is located directly below
      the
      > hinge and front edge of the foot bed. This crampon is 2" (5 cm)
      > long and 4" (10 cm) wide. There are three sets of teeth on the
      front
      > crampon: four 1½" (3.8 cm) long teeth along the front edge, and
      > one 1¼" (3.2 cm) long tooth along either side. The back crampon is
      > smaller than the front and trapezoid-shaped, 2" (5 cm) long by
      > 3" (8 cm) wide at the front by 2" (5 cm) wide at the rear. The
      back
      > crampon has three 1" (2.5 cm) long teeth along either side.
      >
      > Rounded Western Tail: The Hike snowshoe does not have a rudder,
      but
      > instead tapers to 7" (18 cm), only two inches (5 cm) narrower
      > than the snowshoe's widest point, before rounding and completing the
      > oval shape. It is unknown what makes this tail "Western."
      >
      > All Terrain Bindings (ATB): These bindings consist of 1" (2.5
      > cm) nylon webbing and molded rubber support.

      EDIT==> "supports"

      > The nylon webbing is
      > attached to the molded rubber, and the rubber is attached to the
      > front foot bed. The foot bed is situated on top of the rubber and
      in
      > contact with my boot. From a top view, there appears to be two
      > pieces of the molded rubber: the toe support and the instep
      > support. However, there is actually only one piece, and both of
      > these sections are connected under the front foot bed.
      >
      > The toe support consists of two 3" x 3½" (7.6 cm x 8.9 cm)
      > sections of molded rubber which emerge from either side of the
      front
      > half of the front foot bed. A 14" (36 cm) piece of nylon webbing
      > connects the two sides of the toe support over the foot. The
      webbing
      > is fed through a ladder lock, which allows tightening of the toe
      > support. The inside of the toe support has the letter R or L to
      > designate side.

      EDIT==> LadderLoc is a trademark of ITW Nexus, though it is also in
      general usage. I would suggest saying either "buckle" or "ladder
      lock buckle". I think just "buckle" works best (many places).
      >
      > The instep support consists of two sections of molded rubber which
      > emerge from the back of the front foot bed. These sections are T-
      > shaped, 2" (5 cm) wide at the bottom by 4½" (11 cm) tall by
      > 4" (10 cm) long at the top. A 24" (61 cm) strip of webbing
      connects
      > the toe support and the two sides of the instep support in a Z-
      > pattern. A third 16" (41 cm) strip of webbing wraps around the
      back
      > of the heel. As with the toe support, there are ladder locks to
      > adjust the tightness instep and heel webbing.

      EDIT==> think you need "of the" in there before "instep".

      These ladder locks are
      > thicker than ones I am familiar with and light yellow instead of
      > black, making them easy to see. The ATB bindings are patent
      pending
      > by Redfeather snowshoes.
      >
      > Snowshoe Use:
      >
      > After all of that confusing description, using the Hike snowshoes
      is
      > really simple. I put my boot on the foot bed, tighten down the
      > straps and walk.

      COMMENT==> (Writing Instruction: don't tell the reader what to think -
      they will). Uh, I did not find the description confusing, so don't
      TELL the reader that it is. Best to just start with "Using the Hike
      showshoes is really simple."
      >
      > Putting on the snowshoes: My foot slides into the bindings easily,
      > though I need to position the back heel strap with my fingers. The
      > instructions recommend tightening the front strap first, then the
      > heel, and then the instep. My women's 8½ (EU 39) size feet
      > don't take up much room in the supports.

      COMMENT==> I find the use of the word "supports" to be confusing. I
      realize there is a part of the binding called the "supports", but did
      not follow the description well enough to have a visual picture of
      where this is. I think you can get the same same message by
      saying "room in the binding" (if also true). When reading this, my
      mind stops and goes: "supports, supports. What were the supports
      again?".

      > My heel rests squarely on
      > the heel bed while my toe protrudes 2½" (6.4 cm) over the edge. I
      > have to tighten the toe strap all the way down, but there is a
      little
      > give left in the other two straps. There is plenty of webbing, and
      > when the snowshoes are tight there is enough webbing left to trip
      > over. Plastic rings are provided to take up some of the extra
      > webbing at the toe and inseam.

      COMMENT==> did you trip over? Possible - ie, they hang over the
      edge? No place to tuck in? Seems like you are identifying a
      problem, rather than just a slopiness. Uh, I mean, if you really
      don't trip over it, should not say so, maybe just identify it as
      being sloppy (or as inevitable consequence of being small in a one-
      size fits all binding).

      QUESTION==> do the bindings and/or snowshoes come in different
      sizes? Is there a weight and/or size range specified for the shoes
      in that size? (Other than "supports up to 220 lb).
      >
      > Walking in the snowshoes: The Redfeather Hike snowshoes are
      designed
      > for recreational hiking and casual walking for people new to
      > snowshoeing. Though these snowshoes looked huge coming out of the
      > box, they didn't feel clumsy on my feet. I was able to walk
      > normally with the snowshoes on and not trip myself. The width of
      the
      > snowshoes was comfortable and didn't force me to take an
      > extra-wide stance. During the short time I had the snowshoes on, I
      > didn't notice their weight. I was able to walk on deep powder and
      up
      > a steep incline, both things I was not able to do without the
      > snowshoes. One difficulty I had with the snowshoes was turning
      > around in deep powder snow. Ice also formed on the heel bed under
      my
      > boot.
      >
      COMMENT==> don't need the "also" in the last sentence.

      > Test Plan:
      > In the coming months, I will test the Redfeather Hike snowshoes on
      > day hikes and backpacking trips along the Continental Divide and on
      > other snowshoeing trails in Montana. I will test the snowshoes
      alone
      > and with hiking poles. I will concentrate on the All Terrain
      > Bindings, focusing on their ease of use, comfort, and stability. I
      > will assess the Live Action Hinge to see if the action feels smooth
      > and ergonomic. I will also look at the crampons and Rounded
      Western
      > Tail to see if these features offer superior traction and maximum
      > flotation respectively.

      Overall - excellent. Be sure to check over the test upload carefully.

      Tom
    • Clifford R. Haynes
      RedFeather Hike Snowshoes Initial Report 12/5/2003 Personal Stats: Name: Clifford R. Haynes Age: 55 Height: 5 11 (1.8 m) Weight: 300 pounds (136 Kg) Email:
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 5, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        RedFeather
        Hike Snowshoes
        Initial Report
        12/5/2003

        Personal Stats:

        Name: Clifford R. Haynes
        Age: 55
        Height: 5' 11" (1.8 m)
        Weight: 300 pounds (136 Kg)
        Email: chaynes@...
        Location: Western Maine

        Backpacking Background:
        I am from and live in Maine. I have been hiking, backpacking, and canoe
        camping for over 45 years. I am also an assistant scout master; I average 2
        to 3 days a week in the woods year round.

        Over the years I've used or tried a variety of different gear. When I joined
        scouts as a boy, most of the boys my age didn't have backpacking gear, and
        their families didn't have money enough to buy it. So we had great fun
        making our own gear.

        I can't really say that I have a backpacking style. I take what I need or
        want, depending upon what I plan to do on the outing. Even before my knees
        became a problem, I could never see being in a big rush. It is my opinion
        that camping is part of backpacking, and should be enjoyed at least as much
        as the hiking. In areas where there is a lot of hiker traffic, I tend to
        pack heavier in order to minimize impact. I just like being out in the
        woods, and exploring.

        I got my first pair of snowshoes for Christmas when I was 4 years old. They
        were an old pair of army surplus crust shoes (very small bearpaw snowshoes).
        That first winter I had great fun in the back yard on my snowshoes hunting
        pretend rabbits with my wooden rifle. I couldn't walk very far because my
        legs wouldn't spread far enough. As the winters passed I grew into my
        snowshoes, and got even more enjoyment from them. By the time I was 11 and
        entering scouts, I had outgrown my snowshoes for all but crust and hard pack
        conditions. Since I didn't have the money to buy a bigger pair, I managed to
        talk an old fellow that made his living making snowshoes, pack baskets, and
        trapping into teaching me how to make my own snowshoes. By the next year I
        had a fine pair of snowshoes, that are still in use today. Over the years I
        have used about every style of snowshoe there is, including survival brush
        snowshoes. In my opinion there is no such thing as the perfect all around
        snowshoe. You either have to wait until the conditions are favorable for the
        snowshoes you have, or you need several pair and use the pair that matches
        the conditions. My approach to the problem was multiple pairs of snow shoes.
        My current preferences are: wood frame rawhide lace 48" (1.22 m) Green
        Mountain style for bushwhacking and light backpacking, 48" (1.22 m) Michigan
        style for heavy work, Alaskan (Pickerel) style for open country trail
        breaking, and the L. L. Bean White Mountain snowshoes as a sort of all
        around utility snowshoe. For the duration of this test I will be replacing
        my White Mountain snowshoes with the Redfeather Hike 36 snowshoes.

        I generally prefer not to wear a backpack when snowshoeing. I prefer a fanny
        pack for essentials and if I'm camping I carry my gear in a Pulk (modified
        Paris Expedition sled).



        Product Information:

        Manufacturer: Redfeather
        Web Page URL: http://www.redfeather.com/
        Model H 36
        Year Manufactured: 2003
        Listed Weight 4.7 lbs (1.7 kg)*
        Weight as Delivered: 4.8 lbs (2.17 kg)

        *Redfeather's web site lists the weight as 1.7 kg, but the converted weight
        should be 2.13 kg.

        Product Description:
        The Redfeather Hike series are Green Mountain style snowshoes (an elongated
        oval shape, longer and narrower that bearpaws), with a metal frame, plastic
        decking, and plastic / nylon webbing bindings with metal cleats.

        Frame:
        The frame of the Redfeather Hike snowshoe is made of what appears to be
        0.75" (1.9 cm) outside diameter aluminum tubing. The Hike 36 model snowshoes
        are 35.75" (90.8 cm) long. The widest point ,at the base of the upturned toe
        is 9.5" (24.2 cm). They taper to a width of 7.125" (18.1 cm), at the point
        where the turn for the round tail starts. The bottom of each frame has four
        holes drilled in them for rivets. Two in the tail for anchoring the decking
        material and two (one on each side of the frames) where the Live Action
        Hinge is riveted to the aluminum frame.

        Decking:
        The deck material is a black laminated plastic fabric (probably Hypalon)
        about 0.031" (0.78 mm) thick. The decking appears to be quite stretchy, and
        isn't very tight in the binding area. I will be watching to see if the
        decking stretches and loosens more in this area. The deck material is
        wrapper around around the tubing frame and is riveted back to itself. The
        decking is only riveted directly to the tubing frame at the tail where there
        are two rivets into the frame.

        Binding:
        Redfeathers All Terrain Binding (ATB) consists of a plastic plate that the
        ball of the foot rests on, a butterfly shaped piece of flexible plastic,
        three nylon web straps, a plastic heal plate, heal and toe stainless steel
        cleats. The butterfly shaped of flexible plastic (the wings of the binding)
        is sandwiched between the plastic foot plate and the live action hinge. The
        three web straps are attached to the wings of the binding. One strap crosses
        the top of the toes and is fastened with a plastic buckle. The second strap
        attaches to the forward portion of the wings and crosses to a plastic loop
        on the rear wind and then across the foot at the front of the ankle and into
        another plastic buckle. These two straps form a "Z" across the top of the
        foot. The third strap is attached to the back wing and passes around the
        back of the heal to a third buckle. The binding is attached to the Live
        Action Hinge with four Philips bolts and lock nuts. The two front bolts pass
        through the foot plate, the butterfly shaped wings of the binging, the Live
        Action Hinge, the decking material, and the stainless steel toe cleat. The
        bindings also have a plastic heal plate that is bolted to the heal cleat
        (heal plate, decking material, heal cleat) with the Philips bolts and lock
        nuts.

        The stainless steel cleats are made of sheet metal about 0.046" (1.16 mm)
        thick. The bends are crimped (dimpled) such that the bend is stiffened,
        hopefully this will keep the cleats from flattening out with use. The toe
        cleat has four teeth which are about 1.625" (4 cm) long across the front and
        a tooth on each side about 1.125" (2.9 cm) long that is perpendicular to the
        front teeth. The heel cleat's teeth form sort of an open "V" with the narrow
        end toward the real of the snowshoe. There are three teeth on each side
        which are about 1" (2.5 cm) tall.

        The Live Action Hinge is made of a rubber like composite material, about
        0.125" (3.2 mm) thick. It is essentially a 1.375" belt that crossed the top
        of the decking, wraps around the frame and is riveted to itself. There is
        also one rivet on each side into the bottom of the aluminum frame, which
        keep the hinge from sliding on the frame. In the middle of the top of the
        belt, a tongue (or flap) extends under the foot plate of the binding. The
        hinge action of the binding is provided by the twisting of the Live Action
        Hinge.

        Initial Report:

        The Redfeather hike 36 snowshoes arrived on 11/29/2003. They were packaged
        in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. The snowshoes were held together
        with two plastic wire ties (cleats of the top shoe nested in the binding of
        the bottom shoe). There was a tag attached to the top shoe's binding which
        provides basic information about the Redfeather Hike series of snowshoes.
        After separating the shoes I inspected them for damage. I found no serious
        damage from shipping, but the deck material (of the bottom snowshoe) has a
        scuff mark where the aluminum tail of the top shoe rubbed it. This is just
        cosmetic, and in my opinion does not weaken the deck material. While
        inspecting for damage I noticed quite a bit of aluminum filings on the
        decking, presumable the result of inadequate cleaning after drilling and
        riveting the deck material to the frame. A quick wipe down with a piece of
        paper towel removed the filings. The workmanship appears to be adequate, all
        of the rivets are properly set, and there are no puckers in the decking. A
        couple of the rivet holes in the deck material appear to have stretched
        (elongated). The marks that were made in the decking while setting the
        rivets has pulled out from under the rivets backing washer. While this may
        indicate that the rivet wasn't tight enough allowing the hole to elongate,
        it isn't apparent at this point that this is actually the case. I will be
        watching these points closely as the test progresses.

        Redfeather also included a "snowshoeing guide" between the snowshoes which
        provides a brief outline on how to snowshoe, safety precautions, product
        line descriptions, an accessory list, and brief warranty information. While
        this is certainly not an in-depth guide, it does contain helpful information
        for a person new to snowshoeing. My main comment concerning the guide is
        that the instructions for adjusting the bindings should be more prominent
        and clearly labeled. The instructions are tacked onto the end of the
        available binding descriptions (in italics after the description of the Kids
        Binding). These instructions ,at first, appeared to be for adjustment of the
        Kids Bindings.

        Unfortunately we don't have enough snow yet to actually try out the Hike 36
        snowshoes. I have tried adjusting the bindings for my (size 12) Sorrel Packs
        and LL Bean Hunting boot. The bindings fit both boots well and were easy to
        adjust. I'm looking forward to getting them out in the snow.


        Field Information:

        As soon as we get more snow, I will be using the Redfeather Hike 36
        snowshoes backpacking and camping in western and northern Maine. I plan to
        do some hiking on the A.T., but they will see the most use bushwhacking
        across country. Elevations run from sea level to 4000ish feet. Generally
        during the winter I prefer to stay below tree line, since there is generally
        more to see, and the weather is more predictable. During this test I expect
        average temperatures to be between 10 F (-12 C) and 50 F (10 C), with
        occasional highs and lows outside that range. I expect to see snow, sleet,
        freezing rain and rain for precipitation (but hopefully mostly snow) during
        the test period. Most winters snow on the ground averages from 2 (0.6 m) to
        4 (1.2 m) feet (with more in the woods). Since these snowshoes are designed
        for recreational hiking and casual walking, I don't plan to carry more than
        a fanny pack. When camping, I will be carrying my gear on a Pulk (modified
        Paris Expedition sled).

        Test Plan:
        As I mentioned earlier I plan to replace my LL Bean "Tubbs" with the
        Redfeather Hike 36 snowshoes. Due to problems my knees, I have to walk
        daily. I am fortunate to live where I can move those daily walks off the
        street and onto the snowmobile trails. I always use snowshoes with cleats
        when hiking the snowmobile trails, so the Hikes will see almost daily use. I
        normally get out for at least an overnight every week and plan to use the
        Redfeather Hikes on these outings when ever conditions allow it, when
        conditions require another shoe the Hikes will be in the sled ready for when
        they can be used. If the weather cooperates we have several multi-night
        outings planned and I will be using the Hikes on these outings also.

        a.. I'll be using the Redfeather Hikes on day hikes on snowmobile trails
        where I can observe how well the cleats work. I'm interested in durability
        and how well they grip.
        b.. I'll be closely observing the rivet holes that appear to have
        elongated, to determine if they have actually elongated and continue to
        stretch.
        c.. Redfeather recommends the Hike 36 snowshoes for weights greater than
        220 lbs (100 kg). I intend to find out if they are actually adequate for
        this much weight. I plan to use these snowshoes hiking in the woods and not
        on a packed groomed trail at a park or ski area.
        d.. How well will the decking material stand up? It appears to be quite
        stretchy, will it stretch out of shape and get baggy?
      • Clifford R. Haynes
        Opps the oop shouldn t be in the subject line., And I forgot to mention that a copy of the report is posted in the Test folder. Rocky
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 5, 2003
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          Opps the oop shouldn't be in the subject line., And I forgot to mention that
          a copy of the report is posted in the Test folder.
          Rocky
        • Tom Jones
          Thanks, Cliff. Will try to edit tonight. Tom
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 7, 2003
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            Thanks, Cliff. Will try to edit tonight.

            Tom


            --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Clifford R. Haynes"
            <chaynes@g...> wrote:
            > RedFeather
            > Hike Snowshoes
            > Initial Report
            > 12/5/2003
          • Tom Jones
            If possible, would be nice if you can edit and upload by Wednesday afternoon. Thanks, Tom
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 8, 2003
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              If possible, would be nice if you can edit and upload by Wednesday
              afternoon.

              Thanks, Tom
            • Tom Jones
              Maybe not your highest priority, but would be nice if you could edit and upload by Wednesday afternoon. Thanks. Tom
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 8, 2003
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                Maybe not your highest priority, but would be nice if you could edit
                and upload by Wednesday afternoon.

                Thanks.

                Tom
              • Tom Jones
                Whoops. Thought I had done this already. Sorry. Excellent report. Had to stoop to a lot of comma comments, which are Comments because comma usage is
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 10, 2003
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                  Whoops. Thought I had done this already. Sorry.

                  Excellent report. Had to stoop to a lot of comma comments, which
                  are "Comments" because comma usage is highly individual. So
                  consider, but do what works for you.

                  Tom



                  --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Clifford R. Haynes"
                  <chaynes@g...> wrote:
                  > RedFeather
                  > Hike Snowshoes
                  > Initial Report
                  > 12/5/2003
                  >
                  > Personal Stats:
                  >
                  > Name: Clifford R. Haynes
                  > Age: 55
                  > Height: 5' 11" (1.8 m)
                  > Weight: 300 pounds (136 Kg)
                  > Email: chaynes@g...
                  > Location: Western Maine
                  >
                  > Backpacking Background:
                  > I am from and live in Maine. I have been hiking, backpacking, and
                  canoe
                  > camping for over 45 years. I am also an assistant scout master; I
                  average 2
                  > to 3 days a week in the woods year round.
                  >
                  > Over the years I've used or tried a variety of different gear. When
                  I joined
                  > scouts as a boy, most of the boys my age didn't have backpacking
                  gear, and
                  > their families didn't have money enough to buy it. So we had great
                  fun
                  > making our own gear.
                  >
                  > I can't really say that I have a backpacking style. I take what I
                  need or
                  > want, depending upon what I plan to do on the outing. Even before
                  my knees
                  > became a problem, I could never see being in a big rush. It is my
                  opinion
                  > that camping is part of backpacking, and should be enjoyed at least
                  as much
                  > as the hiking. In areas where there is a lot of hiker traffic, I
                  tend to
                  > pack heavier in order to minimize impact. I just like being out in
                  the
                  > woods, and exploring.
                  >
                  > I got my first pair of snowshoes for Christmas when I was 4 years
                  old. They
                  > were an old pair of army surplus crust shoes (very small bearpaw
                  snowshoes).
                  > That first winter I had great fun in the back yard on my snowshoes
                  hunting
                  > pretend rabbits with my wooden rifle. I couldn't walk very far
                  because my
                  > legs wouldn't spread far enough. As the winters passed I grew into
                  my
                  > snowshoes, and got even more enjoyment from them. By the time I was
                  11 and
                  > entering scouts, I had outgrown my snowshoes for all but crust and
                  hard pack

                  COMMENT/SUGGESTION==> where used, "hardpack" works better for me.
                  Google seems to like it.

                  > conditions. Since I didn't have the money to buy a bigger pair, I
                  managed to
                  > talk an old fellow that made his living making snowshoes, pack
                  baskets, and
                  > trapping into teaching me how to make my own snowshoes.

                  SUGGESTION==> I'd put a comma after "trapping".

                  By the next year I
                  > had a fine pair of snowshoes, that are still in use today.

                  EDIT/SUGGESTION==> Uh oh, should not get into comma wars. That said,
                  it reads better to me with the comma after the "By the next year",
                  and not after the "of snowshoes".

                  Over the years I
                  > have used about every style of snowshoe there is, including
                  survival brush
                  > snowshoes. In my opinion there is no such thing as the perfect all
                  around
                  > snowshoe. You either have to wait until the conditions are
                  favorable for the

                  Edit==> "all-around"

                  > snowshoes you have, or you need several pair and use the pair that
                  matches
                  > the conditions. My approach to the problem was multiple pairs of
                  snow shoes.

                  EDIT==> "snowshoes", no space. Seems like you really mean present
                  tense - "to the problem is".

                  EDIT==> of the three "pair(s)", seems like the first and third should
                  be plural, and the second singular. (In other words, "you need
                  several pairs and use the pair...")

                  > My current preferences are: wood frame rawhide lace 48" (1.22 m)
                  Green
                  > Mountain style for bushwhacking and light backpacking, 48" (1.22 m)
                  Michigan
                  > style for heavy work, Alaskan (Pickerel) style for open country
                  trail
                  > breaking, and the L. L. Bean White Mountain snowshoes as a sort of
                  all
                  > around utility snowshoe.

                  EDIT==> "all-around".

                  For the duration of this test I will be replacing
                  > my White Mountain snowshoes with the Redfeather Hike 36 snowshoes.
                  >
                  > I generally prefer not to wear a backpack when snowshoeing. I
                  prefer a fanny
                  > pack for essentials and if I'm camping I carry my gear in a Pulk
                  (modified
                  > Paris Expedition sled).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Product Information:
                  >
                  > Manufacturer: Redfeather
                  > Web Page URL: http://www.redfeather.com/
                  > Model H 36
                  > Year Manufactured: 2003
                  > Listed Weight 4.7 lbs (1.7 kg)*
                  > Weight as Delivered: 4.8 lbs (2.17 kg)
                  >
                  > *Redfeather's web site lists the weight as 1.7 kg, but the
                  converted weight
                  > should be 2.13 kg.
                  >
                  > Product Description:
                  > The Redfeather Hike series are Green Mountain style snowshoes (an
                  elongated
                  > oval shape, longer and narrower that bearpaws), with a metal frame,
                  plastic
                  > decking, and plastic / nylon webbing bindings with metal cleats.
                  >
                  > Frame:
                  > The frame of the Redfeather Hike snowshoe is made of what appears
                  to be
                  > 0.75" (1.9 cm) outside diameter aluminum tubing. The Hike 36 model
                  snowshoes
                  > are 35.75" (90.8 cm) long. The widest point ,at the base of the
                  upturned toe

                  EDIT==> space/comma problem.

                  > is 9.5" (24.2 cm). They taper to a width of 7.125" (18.1 cm), at
                  the point
                  > where the turn for the round tail starts. The bottom of each frame
                  has four
                  > holes drilled in them for rivets. Two in the tail for anchoring the
                  decking
                  > material and two (one on each side of the frames) where the Live
                  Action
                  > Hinge is riveted to the aluminum frame.

                  EDIT==> "one on each side of the frame"
                  >
                  > Decking:
                  > The deck material is a black laminated plastic fabric (probably
                  Hypalon)
                  > about 0.031" (0.78 mm) thick. The decking appears to be quite
                  stretchy, and
                  > isn't very tight in the binding area. I will be watching to see if
                  the
                  > decking stretches and loosens more in this area. The deck material
                  is
                  > wrapper around around the tubing frame and is riveted back to
                  itself. The

                  EDIT==> "wrapped around the tubing"

                  COMMENT==> I'm thinking maybe not Hypalon, unless they say so.
                  Hypalon is really expensive and is a well-recognized brand name, so I
                  would think they would say so if they were using it (but then again,
                  they don't say they use aluminum either...).



                  > decking is only riveted directly to the tubing frame at the tail
                  where there
                  > are two rivets into the frame.
                  >
                  > Binding:
                  > Redfeathers All Terrain Binding (ATB) consists of a plastic plate
                  that the
                  > ball of the foot rests on, a butterfly shaped piece of flexible
                  plastic,
                  > three nylon web straps, a plastic heal plate, heal and toe
                  stainless steel
                  > cleats.

                  EDIT==> "heel"

                  The butterfly shaped of flexible plastic (the wings of the binding)
                  > is sandwiched between the plastic foot plate and the live action
                  hinge.

                  EDIT==> there's something not right in this sentence, but I cannot
                  figure out exactly what you were trying to say. Please fix.

                  The
                  > three web straps are attached to the wings of the binding. One
                  strap crosses
                  > the top of the toes and is fastened with a plastic buckle. The
                  second strap
                  > attaches to the forward portion of the wings and crosses to a
                  plastic loop
                  > on the rear wind

                  EDIT==> "wing"

                  and then across the foot at the front of the ankle and into
                  > another plastic buckle. These two straps form a "Z" across the top
                  of the
                  > foot. The third strap is attached to the back wing and passes
                  around the
                  > back of the heal to a third buckle.

                  EDIT==> "heel"

                  The binding is attached to the Live
                  > Action Hinge with four Philips bolts and lock nuts. The two front
                  bolts pass
                  > through the foot plate, the butterfly shaped wings of the binging,
                  the Live
                  > Action Hinge, the decking material, and the stainless steel toe
                  cleat. The
                  > bindings also have a plastic heal plate that is bolted to the heal
                  cleat
                  > (heal plate, decking material, heal cleat) with the Philips bolts
                  and lock
                  > nuts.

                  EDIT==> "heel" again, and hence.

                  COMMENT==> Interesting, both Phillips and Philips are correct.

                  >
                  > The stainless steel cleats are made of sheet metal about 0.046"
                  (1.16 mm)
                  > thick. The bends are crimped (dimpled) such that the bend is
                  stiffened,
                  > hopefully this will keep the cleats from flattening out with use.
                  The toe
                  > cleat has four teeth which are about 1.625" (4 cm) long across the
                  front and
                  > a tooth on each side about 1.125" (2.9 cm) long that is
                  perpendicular to the
                  > front teeth. The heel cleat's teeth form sort of an open "V" with
                  the narrow
                  > end toward the real of the snowshoe. There are three teeth on each
                  side
                  > which are about 1" (2.5 cm) tall.
                  >
                  > The Live Action Hinge is made of a rubber like composite material,
                  about

                  EDIT==> "rubber-like"

                  > 0.125" (3.2 mm) thick. It is essentially a 1.375" belt that crossed
                  the top
                  > of the decking, wraps around the frame and is riveted to itself.
                  There is

                  EDIT==> "crosses"


                  > also one rivet on each side into the bottom of the aluminum frame,
                  which
                  > keep the hinge from sliding on the frame. In the middle of the top
                  of the
                  > belt, a tongue (or flap) extends under the foot plate of the
                  binding. The
                  > hinge action of the binding is provided by the twisting of the Live
                  Action
                  > Hinge.
                  >
                  > Initial Report:
                  >
                  > The Redfeather hike 36 snowshoes arrived on 11/29/2003. They were
                  packaged

                  EDIT==> "Hike"

                  > in a plastic bag inside a cardboard box. The snowshoes were held
                  together
                  > with two plastic wire ties (cleats of the top shoe nested in the
                  binding of
                  > the bottom shoe). There was a tag attached to the top shoe's
                  binding which
                  > provides basic information about the Redfeather Hike series of
                  snowshoes.
                  > After separating the shoes I inspected them for damage. I found no
                  serious
                  > damage from shipping, but the deck material (of the bottom
                  snowshoe) has a
                  > scuff mark where the aluminum tail of the top shoe rubbed it. This
                  is just
                  > cosmetic, and in my opinion does not weaken the deck material. While
                  > inspecting for damage I noticed quite a bit of aluminum filings on
                  the
                  > decking, presumable the result of inadequate cleaning after
                  drilling and
                  > riveting the deck material to the frame. A quick wipe down with a
                  piece of
                  > paper towel removed the filings. The workmanship appears to be
                  adequate, all
                  > of the rivets are properly set, and there are no puckers in the
                  decking. A
                  > couple of the rivet holes in the deck material appear to have
                  stretched
                  > (elongated). The marks that were made in the decking while setting
                  the
                  > rivets has pulled out from under the rivets backing washer. While
                  this may
                  > indicate that the rivet wasn't tight enough allowing the hole to
                  elongate,
                  > it isn't apparent at this point that this is actually the case. I
                  will be
                  > watching these points closely as the test progresses.
                  >
                  > Redfeather also included a "snowshoeing guide" between the
                  snowshoes which
                  > provides a brief outline on how to snowshoe, safety precautions,
                  product
                  > line descriptions, an accessory list, and brief warranty
                  information. While
                  > this is certainly not an in-depth guide, it does contain helpful
                  information
                  > for a person new to snowshoeing. My main comment concerning the
                  guide is
                  > that the instructions for adjusting the bindings should be more
                  prominent
                  > and clearly labeled. The instructions are tacked onto the end of the
                  > available binding descriptions (in italics after the description of
                  the Kids
                  > Binding). These instructions ,at first, appeared to be for
                  adjustment of the
                  > Kids Bindings.

                  EDIT==> Spacing problem.
                  >
                  > Unfortunately we don't have enough snow yet to actually try out the
                  Hike 36
                  > snowshoes. I have tried adjusting the bindings for my (size 12)
                  Sorrel Packs
                  > and LL Bean Hunting boot. The bindings fit both boots well and were
                  easy to
                  > adjust. I'm looking forward to getting them out in the snow.

                  COMMENT==> Seems like it reads better "LL Bean Hunting boots"
                  >
                  >
                  > Field Information:
                  >
                  > As soon as we get more snow, I will be using the Redfeather Hike 36
                  > snowshoes backpacking and camping in western and northern Maine. I
                  plan to
                  > do some hiking on the A.T., but they will see the most use
                  bushwhacking
                  > across country. Elevations run from sea level to 4000ish feet.

                  EDIT==> "cross-country". Also, need a metric on that height.

                  > Generally
                  > during the winter I prefer to stay below tree line, since there is
                  generally
                  > more to see, and the weather is more predictable.

                  COMMENT==> consider changing your comma usage or sentence structure.

                  During this test I expect
                  > average temperatures to be between 10 F (-12 C) and 50 F (10 C),
                  with
                  > occasional highs and lows outside that range. I expect to see snow,
                  sleet,
                  > freezing rain and rain for precipitation (but hopefully mostly
                  snow) during
                  > the test period. Most winters snow on the ground averages from 2
                  (0.6 m) to
                  > 4 (1.2 m) feet (with more in the woods). Since these snowshoes are
                  designed
                  > for recreational hiking and casual walking, I don't plan to carry
                  more than
                  > a fanny pack. When camping, I will be carrying my gear on a Pulk
                  (modified
                  > Paris Expedition sled).
                  >
                  > Test Plan:
                  > As I mentioned earlier I plan to replace my LL Bean "Tubbs" with the
                  > Redfeather Hike 36 snowshoes. Due to problems my knees, I have to
                  walk
                  > daily. I am fortunate to live where I can move those daily walks
                  off the
                  > street and onto the snowmobile trails. I always use snowshoes with
                  cleats
                  > when hiking the snowmobile trails, so the Hikes will see almost
                  daily use. I
                  > normally get out for at least an overnight every week and plan to
                  use the
                  > Redfeather Hikes on these outings when ever conditions allow it,
                  when

                  EDIT==> "whenever". Also, seems like you are starting a new sentence
                  with the "when". Maybe a comma after "shoes" below.

                  > conditions require another shoe the Hikes will be in the sled ready
                  for when
                  > they can be used. If the weather cooperates we have several multi-
                  night
                  > outings planned and I will be using the Hikes on these outings also.
                  >

                  COMMENT==> could use a title for the list below, such as: "Things
                  I'll be looking at:"

                  > a.. I'll be using the Redfeather Hikes on day hikes on snowmobile
                  trails
                  > where I can observe how well the cleats work. I'm interested in
                  durability
                  > and how well they grip.
                  > b.. I'll be closely observing the rivet holes that appear to have
                  > elongated, to determine if they have actually elongated and
                  continue to
                  > stretch.
                  > c.. Redfeather recommends the Hike 36 snowshoes for weights
                  greater than
                  > 220 lbs (100 kg). I intend to find out if they are actually
                  adequate for
                  > this much weight. I plan to use these snowshoes hiking in the woods
                  and not
                  > on a packed groomed trail at a park or ski area.
                  > d.. How well will the decking material stand up? It appears to be
                  quite
                  > stretchy, will it stretch out of shape and get baggy?
                • Clifford R. Haynes
                  Thank You for editing my IR. I have made the necessary changes and uploaded. Rocky
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 13, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank You for editing my IR. I have made the necessary changes and uploaded.
                    Rocky
                  • Tom Jones
                    Thanks Cliff, it looks good. Tom ... uploaded.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 13, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks Cliff, it looks good.

                      Tom

                      --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Clifford R. Haynes"
                      <chaynes@g...> wrote:
                      > Thank You for editing my IR. I have made the necessary changes and
                      uploaded.
                      > Rocky
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