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Re: Report compliance

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  • Sonjia Leyva
    Regarding requiring a credit card to insure compliance with test reports: I like the idea in theory, but I m with some of the others who have expressed
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 1, 2001
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      Regarding requiring a credit card to insure compliance with test
      reports: I like the idea in theory, but I'm with some of the others
      who have expressed concerns about putting it into practice.
      1. Using a service like PayPal is a good idea, provided that a
      tester would be able to have a choice in how they like to pay. Some
      people don't like to use their credit card on-line. I hate to write
      checks (check writing = checkbook balancing = huge headaches = a bad
      thing!) but others might prefer to send in their payment as a check
      via the good ol' USPS.

      2. When, and who, decides non-compliance? You would need to
      clearly state what the criteria is for when a tester is in non-
      compliance and their payment will be processed. Example, a tester is
      in non-compliance when they have failed to submit reports AND the
      tester has not contacted you/the moderater/someone in the group to
      inform them of extenuating circumstances AND a resonable attempt has
      been made to contact them to find out what's going on (to cover your
      butt, do it via registered mail).

      I do like the idea of owner reports. Most of us have gear that we
      have used for years and can give a much more detailed report over a
      longer span of time. Or, we've purchased gear and have absolutely
      hated it. This, also, can be valuable to the group. I also like the
      idea of some of us who live nearby to get together and do a group
      trial.

      Sonjia, who put in WAY more than 2 cents' worth of ponderings.
    • Don Johnston
      ... Sounds good to me. I think we have done some of this in an informal way. I think these should be structured like regular tests and standards for reporting
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 1, 2001
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        >I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and item and call
        >for owners to give us reports on the selected item. This would allow a much longer
        >experience report than we can now get. We could build a tremendous database of gear
        >reports. What do you think?
        >Jerry

        Sounds good to me. I think we have done some of this in an informal way.
        I think these should be structured like regular tests and standards for
        reporting should be just as high as with regular tests. Once cold
        weather returns I expect to do an update on the PHD gear I reported on.
        I will have a report on a Nunatak Arc Alpinist at some point also.

        Photon
      • GearTester
        All reports must be up to our standards. I may have to come up with an item monitor to periodically check the folder and read new reports. If they feel the
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 1, 2001
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          All reports must be up to our standards. I may have to come up with an item
          monitor to periodically check the folder and read new reports. If they feel
          the report is substandard they can report it to me for review and possible
          removal.
          Jerry
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
          interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Don Johnston" <d.h.j@...>
          To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:50 PM
          Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: Report compliance


          > Sounds good to me. I think we have done some of this in an informal way.
          > I think these should be structured like regular tests and standards for
          > reporting should be just as high as with regular tests. Once cold
          > weather returns I expect to do an update on the PHD gear I reported on.
          > I will have a report on a Nunatak Arc Alpinist at some point also.
          >
          > Photon
        • Michael Wheiler
          Jerry: Seems like we ve been discussing ways to insure compliance for a long time. It is too bad it has gotten to the point that we are considering the credit
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 1, 2001
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            Jerry:
             
            Seems like we've been discussing ways to insure compliance for a long time.  It is too bad it has gotten to the point that we are considering the credit card requirement.  But to steal a line from the movie "Twins,":  "money talks and bs walks."
             
            I like the idea of calling for owner reporting on select equipment a lot.  From reading the comments and applications for testing, we have a very strong user data base from which to draw information about equipment use that ought to be utilized.
             
            Mike
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:25 PM
            Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance

            We still need to solve this problem. I'm currently considering requiring a credit card number and signed agreement be provided the manufacturer by each tester before the tester can receive the test item. The agreement would state that the tester authorizes the manufacturer to charge them full price for the test item if the manufacturer is notified by the list moderator that the tester is in report default.
            It looks like, if it proves successful, that all our applicable reports will be linked through BackpackingLight.com as was done this week. This opens us up to much larger exposure and scrutiny. We have to get to the point that we have 100% compliance....one way or the other. I'm trying to not have a situation where only certain listers are chosen to report.
            I'd love to hear other plans for curing this problem.
            I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and item and call for owners to give us reports on the selected item. This would allow a much longer experience report than we can now get. We could build a tremendous database of gear reports. What do you think?
            Jerry
             
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.


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          • Ben Toombs
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 1, 2001
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              <It might also be of value to request some reviews of the custom or semi-custom
              products. buyers may be leery of because they can't see them in a
              store.>
               
              Excellent point! I am interested in Wanderlust's 2 for 2 but am concerned about condensation & interior space. I would like to here some good reviews of this tent.
            • Ben Toombs
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 1, 2001
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                <Idea #2 leads back to #1: What if we were to require (1,2,3...?)
                owner test reviews as a qualifier for becoming a new-gear tester?
                I'll bet dollars to Lil' Debbies that this process would filter out
                most of your deadbeats.>
                 
                Another good idea! This group is the best!

              • GearTester
                I m willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite for new gear testing. I m going to require that potential new gear reviewers must include the
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 1, 2001
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                  I'm willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite for new gear testing. I'm going to require that potential new gear reviewers must include the links to two owner reports that have been uploaded to BGT. I'll develop the requirements file and post it tomorrow....I hope. This will accomplish two goals: build our gear review database and try a less painless method of compliance.
                  Jerry
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:26 PM
                  Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance

                  Jerry:
                   
                  Seems like we've been discussing ways to insure compliance for a long time.  It is too bad it has gotten to the point that we are considering the credit card requirement.  But to steal a line from the movie "Twins,":  "money talks and bs walks."
                   
                  I like the idea of calling for owner reporting on select equipment a lot.  From reading the comments and applications for testing, we have a very strong user data base from which to draw information about equipment use that ought to be utilized.
                   
                  Mike
                • chaynes@javanet.com
                  I wonder if you would consider excludeing the use of previous tester reportsas meeting the prerequisites for a new gear tester and limiting the requirement to
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 2, 2001
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                    I wonder if you would consider excludeing the use of previous tester
                    reportsas meeting the prerequisites for a new gear tester and
                    limiting the requirement to owner reports. The reason I ask this is
                    if tester reports are accepted as meeting the prerequisite, folks who
                    have already had an oppertunity to test have an unfare advantage.
                    There are already folks on the list who have had more than one
                    oppertunity to test gear while the majority have not had an
                    oppertunity to participate as testers.

                    Also I wonder if it would be possible to reword the tester
                    requirements such that the tester by accepting gear has entered into
                    a contract with the list as well as the manufacturer to provide the
                    required report, an should the requirements not be meet, the list
                    could bill the noncompliant tester for replacement gear for anouther
                    tester, and should they not pay, perhaps at least try to get there
                    nonpayment on there credit report.


                    --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                    > I'm willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite
                    for new gear testing. I'm going to require that potential new gear
                    reviewers must include the links to two owner reports that have been
                    uploaded to BGT. I'll develop the requirements file and post it
                    tomorrow....I hope. This will accomplish two goals: build our gear
                    review database and try a less painless method of compliance.
                    > Jerry
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most
                    comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Michael Wheiler
                    > To: BackpackGearTest@y...
                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:26 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance
                    >
                    >
                    > Jerry:
                    >
                  • David Harris
                    FWIW, I think requiring owner reports as a prerequisite for testing is a terrific approach. I hate the notion that we need to require credit cards for this
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 3, 2001
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                      FWIW, I think requiring owner reports as a prerequisite for testing
                      is a terrific approach. I hate the notion that we need to require
                      credit cards for this process. That would, as has been mentioned
                      earlier, leave some potential testers out over concerns about sending
                      credit card info out into cyberspace. More than that, whether pay
                      pal or credit cards, it would add tremendously to the work (unpaid)
                      that Jerry has to put into this venture, and I rather doubt (hope I'm
                      not speaking out of turn Jerry) that that's what he got into this
                      idea for in the 1st place.

                      Let's all hope that the use of owner reviews, and possibly starting
                      testers out with smaller items, will solve our problem.

                      On a side note, I think the ideas of testing get together sessions
                      and side-by-side comparison testing are great, though I think they
                      would tend to focus gear on a more limited number of testers.

                      David Harris

                      --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                      > I'm willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite
                      for new gear testing. I'm going to require that potential new gear
                      reviewers must include the links to two owner reports that have been
                      uploaded to BGT. I'll develop the requirements file and post it
                      tomorrow....I hope. This will accomplish two goals: build our gear
                      review database and try a less painless method of compliance.
                      > Jerry
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most
                      comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                    • Dave Hicks
                      I like the idea of a credit card number and a signed agreement, but with some restraint in what is considered delinquent, or otherwise results in a charge to
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 5, 2001
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                        I like the idea of a credit card number and a signed agreement, but with
                        some restraint in what is considered delinquent, or otherwise results in a
                        charge to the account.

                        For example, one of the complications is problem of "matching the items
                        arrival date with the testers' calendar or travel/hiking schedule." We
                        seldom know when the item will arrive, when we apply to test it. For
                        example, my Hike-N-Light arrived while I was on a trip, so I was
                        "delinquent" -- albeit I had notified Jerry that I was going to be out. To
                        his, and your, credit you just list my report as "delinquent" rather than
                        announce to the world that my house was an easy target for the next two
                        weeks. So, IMHO, we need some clear understanding of how to deal with
                        report slippages while maintaining some acceptable level of confidentiality.

                        dave

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Bob <farmerbob48@...>
                        To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:47 PM
                        Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance


                        > I think that requiring a credit card number and a signed agreement is an
                        > excellent idea. I have monitored two tests so far and both tests there
                        has
                        > been a few members that haven't finished all their reports. I think that
                        > stricter guide lines is needed to weed out the testers that just want free
                        > products.
                        >
                        > I also think that starting an owner review program is a good idea. I know
                        > that I have a lot of gear and a few friends of mine that are members have
                        > more gear than I do. This would be a good program to do during times when
                        > there's no new products being tested and it would give more information
                        > about products already out there so people could read and get a better
                        idea
                        > about a product that they might buy. I think a few products to start this
                        > owner review program could be the MSR Whisperlite International stove,
                        > Grivel 10 point crampons, Vasque GT Clarion Impact boots, and the Pur
                        Water
                        > Filters.
                        >
                        > Farmer Bob
                        >
                        >
                        > >From: "GearTester" <geartester@...>
                        > >Reply-To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                        > >To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                        > >Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance
                        > >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:25:15 -0600
                        > >
                        > >We still need to solve this problem. I'm currently considering requiring
                        a
                        > >credit card number and signed agreement be provided the manufacturer by
                        > >each tester before the tester can receive the test item. The agreement
                        > >would state that the tester authorizes the manufacturer to charge them
                        full
                        > >price for the test item if the manufacturer is notified by the list
                        > >moderator that the tester is in report default.
                        > >It looks like, if it proves successful, that all our applicable reports
                        > >will be linked through BackpackingLight.com as was done this week. This
                        > >opens us up to much larger exposure and scrutiny. We have to get to the
                        > >point that we have 100% compliance....one way or the other. I'm trying to
                        > >not have a situation where only certain listers are chosen to report.
                        > >I'd love to hear other plans for curing this problem.
                        > >I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and
                        > >item and call for owners to give us reports on the selected item. This
                        > >would allow a much longer experience report than we can now get. We could
                        > >build a tremendous database of gear reports. What do you think?
                        > >Jerry
                        > >
                        > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                        > >interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                        >
                        >
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