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Re: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance

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  • Ben Toombs
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 1 4:26 AM
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      <I'm currently considering requiring a credit card number and signed agreement be provided the manufacturer by each tester before the tester can receive the test item.>
      This works for me but the manufactures may not be able to do this. Maybe we (you) could setup an internet retail site. The problem that I see is that you (we) would then engage in retail sales of a product. Taxes, Licenses, etc. Let you amagination run wild about the headaches.
      <I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and item and call for owners to give us reports on the selected item.>
      Here again I hate to be the counter voice on an issue but....
      On the internet there a tons of pages that offer similar services. Most reports are written by people who are trying to justify their purchase which is never useful. If you were to set this up you would need to control the quality of the reports. Then you get accused of censoring opinions. Beware!!
    • Amy Friends Stone
      Both ideas sound good to me, Jerry! I know I ve been promising a review of the WR Katmai Rose fleece tights.... I m training all day today & tomorrow, but
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 1 4:52 AM
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        Both ideas sound good to me, Jerry! I know I've been promising a review of
        the WR Katmai Rose fleece tights.... I'm training all day today & tomorrow,
        but I'll get it for ya by Monday.

        Sandpiper
        --
        Where you've been is dead and gone
        all you keep's the getting there.
        To live is to fly low and high
        so shake the dust off of your wings
        and the sleep out of your eyes...
        Townes VanZandt




        >From: "GearTester" <geartester@...>
        >Reply-To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
        >To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance
        >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:25:15 -0600
        >
        >We still need to solve this problem. I'm currently considering requiring a
        >credit card number and signed agreement be provided the manufacturer by
        >each tester before the tester can receive the test item. The agreement
        >would state that the tester authorizes the manufacturer to charge them full
        >price for the test item if the manufacturer is notified by the list
        >moderator that the tester is in report default.
        >It looks like, if it proves successful, that all our applicable reports
        >will be linked through BackpackingLight.com as was done this week. This
        >opens us up to much larger exposure and scrutiny. We have to get to the
        >point that we have 100% compliance....one way or the other. I'm trying to
        >not have a situation where only certain listers are chosen to report.
        >I'd love to hear other plans for curing this problem.
        >I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and
        >item and call for owners to give us reports on the selected item. This
        >would allow a much longer experience report than we can now get. We could
        >build a tremendous database of gear reports. What do you think?
        >Jerry
        >
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
        >interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.


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      • kahley
        ... Actually, I d take it a step further and require testers to pay for the gear, up front, via Paypal, and have the money, minus any transaction fees,
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 1 5:50 AM
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          At 05:13 AM 8/1/01 +0000, Bill Jeffrey wrote:
          >Have you discussed this with the manufacturers? I would suspect some
          >if not many don't take credit cards because they only sell to
          >distributors. As an alternative, maybe one of the online credit card
          >companies would work, like Pay Pal

          Actually, I'd take it a step further and require testers to pay for the
          gear, up front,
          via Paypal, and have the money, minus any transaction fees, returned to them
          the same way when they have completed their part of the agreement. The funds
          would be held in escrow, in our Paypal account to insure compliance.

          Paypal is essentially an on line banking system. You open an account either
          by depositing funds in cash, which then collects interest until you authorize
          transfer, or by submitting a valid credit card and authorizing future
          charges to
          cover transfer of funds for purchases or any other purpose
          .
          Funds are transferred with a few clicks into any other paypal user's account
          and then an email confirmation of the transaction is sent to both
          parties. I use
          it all the time to pay for ebay auctions because I find it more convenient and
          safer than sending checks or my credit card info to unknown merchants.

          When a tester is selected, he or she would be required to transfer the stated
          amount to the group account. When the reports are submitted it is
          transferred back
          to the tester. The only drawback would be any accrued interest charged on the
          tester's credit card or the loss of interest that would have been earned
          if they
          funded their account with cash. This would be a slight price to pay
          considering
          the "free" nature of the gear. Granted, it would be a new hoop to jump
          through
          but we would have the added benefit of knowing we are dealing with a real
          identity.

          If the tester fails to complete the reporting requirements, the funds would
          be forfeit
          and Jerry would access them to reimburse the manufacturer. This would protect
          the manufacturers from the hassle of collecting what they are owed by the
          fraudulent
          tester while minimizing the hassle factor as much as possible for you. It
          would also
          eliminate the liability of transferring credit card info over insecure
          email routes or the
          hassle of sending and returning paper agreements. Paypal has a secure
          server set
          up with protection for the credit card info and testers would only need to
          submit
          sensitive info to them. You are protected from liability from unauthorized
          charges or
          screw ups.

          Plus, you have the added incentive that the tester is now required to
          follow through
          in order to get his money back. It's an admitted power shift which will
          put the
          group, and thus the manufacturers, in the catbird's seat. It's unfortunate
          that such
          measures are necessary but if this thing is going to work, we have to have
          a way
          to protect the group from the abuse of freeloading flakes. In addition, it
          provides a
          fair manner to insure that sincere testers, who for some unforeseen reason
          cannot
          complete their reports in a timely manner, can get their money back when
          they do
          complete their report, if we choose to go that route, without the hassle of
          attempting
          a credit card refund.

          Paypal transactions take about a minute to complete and, as I said, generate an
          email notification, of each transaction, for both parties, plus a rather
          impressive
          "transaction history" available through the web site. The tester is
          protected by
          having his credit card info only in the hands of a system designed to
          protect it
          and the hassle factor is reduced for the manufacturers who are not set up to
          accept credit card charges. You would have to manage the transfers but,
          truthfully, Paypal makes it about as easy as possible. I know that there
          is no
          charge to the payer. However it does charge about 3 percent to the recipient
          if the recipient is a business. We are not a business, however the amount of
          funds being transferred may slip us into that category. If so, the 3% fee
          could
          be added to the up front price of the test item. The tester would then get
          his
          initial payment minus the fee meaning he or she gets the gear for 3% of retail
          rather than for free. Still a good deal for sure.

          Just something to think about.

          I am not associated with Paypal in any way other than as a satisfied customer.
          And please read the website to make sure I have the facts straight.
          http://www.paypal.com/
        • Eric Jensen
          ... I think this might work OK, although maybe some other way to obligate the tester might be just as effective, i.e. noncompliance on the first report (with
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 1 9:07 AM
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            --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
            > We still need to solve this problem. I'm currently considering
            >requiring a credit card number and signed agreement be provided the
            >manufacturer by each tester before the tester can receive the test
            >item.

            I think this might work OK, although maybe some other way to obligate
            the tester might be just as effective, i.e. noncompliance on the
            first report (with greater report expectations/criteria established)
            prevents the opportunity to participate further. This would increase
            the benefit-to-risk factor, because the group would end up with more
            detailed comprehensive reports by those who comply while at the same
            time carrying the risk that somebody in the group may (or may not)
            flake out on the test. Alternatively, even a cash-type deposit to
            the group's testing monitor may be preferrable than giving a credit
            card number to the manufacturer. Another concern with this proposal
            is how it may affect our efforts to work with with the cottage-
            industry folks, like LWgear and GVPgear, who are developing
            interesting and innovative products but do not take credit cards.
            [Shameless plug section - Check out my interview of Lynne Whelden in
            bacpackinglight.com where Lynne discusses his experiences with the
            corpporate retail world - this feature will come online next Monday]

            > I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would
            >pick and item and call for owners to give us reports on the selected
            >item. This would allow a much longer experience report than we can
            >now get. We could build a tremendous database of gear reports. What
            >do you think?

            I thinks its great. I would like to have a chance to read more
            reviews of all types and brands of lightweight gear. This greater
            level of information would allow us to make better-educated decisions
            on our purchases sooner than otherwise having to wait and hope that a
            particular vendor releases their product to the testing group. Also,
            I know many of us, including myself, like to look up gear testing
            information online prior to deciding what to buy. The problem is
            sometimes the outlets for this research, for example
            outdoorreviews.com, do not include reviews of the smaller vendors'
            products, again like LWgear and GVPgear, on their lists. My only
            concern echoes Ben Toombs' comment about how some reviewers may
            submit reports of their products in order to try and justify their
            purchases.

            OneMan
          • Eric.Kammerer@VerizonWireless.com
            If chosen to test something, I would have no problems with the credit card number and agreement. I would expect to receive something of value after performing
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 1 9:21 AM
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              If chosen to test something, I would have no problems with the credit card
              number and agreement. I would expect to receive something of value after
              performing a valuable service. The value I would receive at a minimum is a free
              opportunity to determine if something will work for me -- even if I don't keep
              the item. I'm not asking for charity...

              The owner review thing sounds interesting. How would you choose a product?
              Given how fast products change, any long-term report is likely to be for a
              product that is no longer available. If you want an intermediate-term report
              (6-12 months after purchase), you might get much more information of value to
              the current buying public -- and thus the manufacturer.

              It might also be of value to request some reviews of the custom or semi-custom
              products. These are items such as Stephenson tents, McHale backpacks, the custom
              GVP packs, etc. that buyers may be leery of because they can't see them in a
              store. A friend of mine avoided the Stephenson tent because he couldn't touch it
              in a store and found very few reviews. My brother only got interested after he
              saw mine. Many of the smaller firms with really good gear could probably use the
              exposure.


              Eric
            • richard.dreher@jacobs.com
              Jerry, Issue #1 is a toughie, I m not sure that a pay-as-you-don t-go system accomplishes your goal. If someone has to pay for their piece of gear because they
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 1 9:54 AM
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                Jerry,

                Issue #1 is a toughie, I'm not sure that a pay-as-you-don't-go system
                accomplishes your goal. If someone has to pay for their piece of gear
                because they don't file a report, we still haven't achieved 100%
                compliance, have we?. An additional headache for you is deciding when
                to pull the payment trigger. Do you do it within a day, a week, a
                month of the deadline? What if they're a day late with their report--
                do they get a 50% refund? Would it have any impact with a $12 item
                test or only with big ticket items? One thing I'm certain you don't
                want is to attach a dollar value to a given test--you want the
                quality to be the same for a $10 flashlight as it is for a $150
                sleeping bag.

                In addition, do you want potential legal entanglements resulting from
                gathering and holding CC#s?, not to mention the inevitable eruptions
                that will happen when you pull that trigger?

                It might all work, but I figure you need a devil's advocate or two at
                work here :-)

                I like idea #2 very much: formalized owner tests. I write ad hoc gear
                reviews all the time on various web boards that could easily be
                expanded for use here. (But, will the manufacturer care/pay any
                attention?)

                Idea #2 leads back to #1: What if we were to require (1,2,3...?)
                owner test reviews as a qualifier for becoming a new-gear tester?
                I'll bet dollars to Lil' Debbies that this process would filter out
                most of your deadbeats.

                --Rick
              • GearTester
                I don t care for the credit card idea either. It is cumbersome and anything that slows the manufacturer down makes it less likely they will come through. A
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 1 10:08 AM
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                  I don't care for the credit card idea either. It is cumbersome and anything
                  that slows the manufacturer down makes it less likely they will come
                  through. A cash deposit would limit testers to those who can afford the
                  deposit but would be the most workable. PayPal would work but the sender can
                  protest the charge at anytime and then the receiver (us) becomes responsible
                  for the cash. I just can't think of anything else that will work either.
                  Banning doesn't seem to have much effect because they know it's unlikely
                  they will get a second piece of gear anyway.
                  To over come inertia, I think the owner tests will work best in response to
                  specific item report calls. As far as biased reports by owners, nothing can
                  stop that. If you've noticed, no one has trashed a piece of gear they
                  received free either. I recognize the ego investment problem with owner
                  reviews but I don't think it is of any greater concern than any other
                  physiological aspect of any review process.
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                  interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                • GearTester
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet. ... From:
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 1 11:07 AM
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                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                    interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <richard.dreher@...>
                    To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:54 AM
                    Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: Report compliance


                    > Jerry,
                    >
                    > Issue #1 is a toughie, I'm not sure that a pay-as-you-don't-go system
                    > accomplishes your goal. If someone has to pay for their piece of gear
                    > because they don't file a report, we still haven't achieved 100%
                    > compliance, have we?. An additional headache for you is deciding when
                    > to pull the payment trigger. Do you do it within a day, a week, a
                    > month of the deadline? What if they're a day late with their report--
                    > do they get a 50% refund? Would it have any impact with a $12 item
                    > test or only with big ticket items? One thing I'm certain you don't
                    > want is to attach a dollar value to a given test--you want the
                    > quality to be the same for a $10 flashlight as it is for a $150
                    > sleeping bag.
                    >
                    > In addition, do you want potential legal entanglements resulting from
                    > gathering and holding CC#s?, not to mention the inevitable eruptions
                    > that will happen when you pull that trigger?
                    >
                    > It might all work, but I figure you need a devil's advocate or two at
                    > work here :-)

                    ### Pretty much "No" to all of the above....except the good report on all
                    items one.... I want compliance with the least amount of hassle.

                    > I like idea #2 very much: formalized owner tests. I write ad hoc gear
                    > reviews all the time on various web boards that could easily be
                    > expanded for use here. (But, will the manufacturer care/pay any
                    > attention?)

                    ### These reviews are pretty much just for us. Although, you never know.

                    > Idea #2 leads back to #1: What if we were to require (1,2,3...?)
                    > owner test reviews as a qualifier for becoming a new-gear tester?
                    > I'll bet dollars to Lil' Debbies that this process would filter out
                    > most of your deadbeats.

                    ### Great minds think alike. That's what I was just thinking about. It is no
                    more or less fool-proof than any other idea but it sure would encourage
                    owner tests and prove they could write.

                    Jerry
                  • Sonjia Leyva
                    Regarding requiring a credit card to insure compliance with test reports: I like the idea in theory, but I m with some of the others who have expressed
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 1 12:37 PM
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                      Regarding requiring a credit card to insure compliance with test
                      reports: I like the idea in theory, but I'm with some of the others
                      who have expressed concerns about putting it into practice.
                      1. Using a service like PayPal is a good idea, provided that a
                      tester would be able to have a choice in how they like to pay. Some
                      people don't like to use their credit card on-line. I hate to write
                      checks (check writing = checkbook balancing = huge headaches = a bad
                      thing!) but others might prefer to send in their payment as a check
                      via the good ol' USPS.

                      2. When, and who, decides non-compliance? You would need to
                      clearly state what the criteria is for when a tester is in non-
                      compliance and their payment will be processed. Example, a tester is
                      in non-compliance when they have failed to submit reports AND the
                      tester has not contacted you/the moderater/someone in the group to
                      inform them of extenuating circumstances AND a resonable attempt has
                      been made to contact them to find out what's going on (to cover your
                      butt, do it via registered mail).

                      I do like the idea of owner reports. Most of us have gear that we
                      have used for years and can give a much more detailed report over a
                      longer span of time. Or, we've purchased gear and have absolutely
                      hated it. This, also, can be valuable to the group. I also like the
                      idea of some of us who live nearby to get together and do a group
                      trial.

                      Sonjia, who put in WAY more than 2 cents' worth of ponderings.
                    • Don Johnston
                      ... Sounds good to me. I think we have done some of this in an informal way. I think these should be structured like regular tests and standards for reporting
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 1 3:50 PM
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                        >I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and item and call
                        >for owners to give us reports on the selected item. This would allow a much longer
                        >experience report than we can now get. We could build a tremendous database of gear
                        >reports. What do you think?
                        >Jerry

                        Sounds good to me. I think we have done some of this in an informal way.
                        I think these should be structured like regular tests and standards for
                        reporting should be just as high as with regular tests. Once cold
                        weather returns I expect to do an update on the PHD gear I reported on.
                        I will have a report on a Nunatak Arc Alpinist at some point also.

                        Photon
                      • GearTester
                        All reports must be up to our standards. I may have to come up with an item monitor to periodically check the folder and read new reports. If they feel the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 1 4:59 PM
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                          All reports must be up to our standards. I may have to come up with an item
                          monitor to periodically check the folder and read new reports. If they feel
                          the report is substandard they can report it to me for review and possible
                          removal.
                          Jerry
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                          interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Don Johnston" <d.h.j@...>
                          To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:50 PM
                          Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: Report compliance


                          > Sounds good to me. I think we have done some of this in an informal way.
                          > I think these should be structured like regular tests and standards for
                          > reporting should be just as high as with regular tests. Once cold
                          > weather returns I expect to do an update on the PHD gear I reported on.
                          > I will have a report on a Nunatak Arc Alpinist at some point also.
                          >
                          > Photon
                        • Michael Wheiler
                          Jerry: Seems like we ve been discussing ways to insure compliance for a long time. It is too bad it has gotten to the point that we are considering the credit
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 1 7:26 PM
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                            Jerry:
                             
                            Seems like we've been discussing ways to insure compliance for a long time.  It is too bad it has gotten to the point that we are considering the credit card requirement.  But to steal a line from the movie "Twins,":  "money talks and bs walks."
                             
                            I like the idea of calling for owner reporting on select equipment a lot.  From reading the comments and applications for testing, we have a very strong user data base from which to draw information about equipment use that ought to be utilized.
                             
                            Mike
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:25 PM
                            Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance

                            We still need to solve this problem. I'm currently considering requiring a credit card number and signed agreement be provided the manufacturer by each tester before the tester can receive the test item. The agreement would state that the tester authorizes the manufacturer to charge them full price for the test item if the manufacturer is notified by the list moderator that the tester is in report default.
                            It looks like, if it proves successful, that all our applicable reports will be linked through BackpackingLight.com as was done this week. This opens us up to much larger exposure and scrutiny. We have to get to the point that we have 100% compliance....one way or the other. I'm trying to not have a situation where only certain listers are chosen to report.
                            I'd love to hear other plans for curing this problem.
                            I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and item and call for owners to give us reports on the selected item. This would allow a much longer experience report than we can now get. We could build a tremendous database of gear reports. What do you think?
                            Jerry
                             
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                          • Ben Toombs
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 1 7:31 PM
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                              <It might also be of value to request some reviews of the custom or semi-custom
                              products. buyers may be leery of because they can't see them in a
                              store.>
                               
                              Excellent point! I am interested in Wanderlust's 2 for 2 but am concerned about condensation & interior space. I would like to here some good reviews of this tent.
                            • Ben Toombs
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 1 7:38 PM
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                                <Idea #2 leads back to #1: What if we were to require (1,2,3...?)
                                owner test reviews as a qualifier for becoming a new-gear tester?
                                I'll bet dollars to Lil' Debbies that this process would filter out
                                most of your deadbeats.>
                                 
                                Another good idea! This group is the best!

                              • GearTester
                                I m willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite for new gear testing. I m going to require that potential new gear reviewers must include the
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 1 8:12 PM
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                                  I'm willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite for new gear testing. I'm going to require that potential new gear reviewers must include the links to two owner reports that have been uploaded to BGT. I'll develop the requirements file and post it tomorrow....I hope. This will accomplish two goals: build our gear review database and try a less painless method of compliance.
                                  Jerry
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:26 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance

                                  Jerry:
                                   
                                  Seems like we've been discussing ways to insure compliance for a long time.  It is too bad it has gotten to the point that we are considering the credit card requirement.  But to steal a line from the movie "Twins,":  "money talks and bs walks."
                                   
                                  I like the idea of calling for owner reporting on select equipment a lot.  From reading the comments and applications for testing, we have a very strong user data base from which to draw information about equipment use that ought to be utilized.
                                   
                                  Mike
                                • chaynes@javanet.com
                                  I wonder if you would consider excludeing the use of previous tester reportsas meeting the prerequisites for a new gear tester and limiting the requirement to
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 2 4:41 AM
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                                    I wonder if you would consider excludeing the use of previous tester
                                    reportsas meeting the prerequisites for a new gear tester and
                                    limiting the requirement to owner reports. The reason I ask this is
                                    if tester reports are accepted as meeting the prerequisite, folks who
                                    have already had an oppertunity to test have an unfare advantage.
                                    There are already folks on the list who have had more than one
                                    oppertunity to test gear while the majority have not had an
                                    oppertunity to participate as testers.

                                    Also I wonder if it would be possible to reword the tester
                                    requirements such that the tester by accepting gear has entered into
                                    a contract with the list as well as the manufacturer to provide the
                                    required report, an should the requirements not be meet, the list
                                    could bill the noncompliant tester for replacement gear for anouther
                                    tester, and should they not pay, perhaps at least try to get there
                                    nonpayment on there credit report.


                                    --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                                    > I'm willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite
                                    for new gear testing. I'm going to require that potential new gear
                                    reviewers must include the links to two owner reports that have been
                                    uploaded to BGT. I'll develop the requirements file and post it
                                    tomorrow....I hope. This will accomplish two goals: build our gear
                                    review database and try a less painless method of compliance.
                                    > Jerry
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most
                                    comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Michael Wheiler
                                    > To: BackpackGearTest@y...
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:26 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Jerry:
                                    >
                                  • David Harris
                                    FWIW, I think requiring owner reports as a prerequisite for testing is a terrific approach. I hate the notion that we need to require credit cards for this
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 3 8:53 AM
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                                      FWIW, I think requiring owner reports as a prerequisite for testing
                                      is a terrific approach. I hate the notion that we need to require
                                      credit cards for this process. That would, as has been mentioned
                                      earlier, leave some potential testers out over concerns about sending
                                      credit card info out into cyberspace. More than that, whether pay
                                      pal or credit cards, it would add tremendously to the work (unpaid)
                                      that Jerry has to put into this venture, and I rather doubt (hope I'm
                                      not speaking out of turn Jerry) that that's what he got into this
                                      idea for in the 1st place.

                                      Let's all hope that the use of owner reviews, and possibly starting
                                      testers out with smaller items, will solve our problem.

                                      On a side note, I think the ideas of testing get together sessions
                                      and side-by-side comparison testing are great, though I think they
                                      would tend to focus gear on a more limited number of testers.

                                      David Harris

                                      --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                                      > I'm willing to try the owner report requirement as a prerequisite
                                      for new gear testing. I'm going to require that potential new gear
                                      reviewers must include the links to two owner reports that have been
                                      uploaded to BGT. I'll develop the requirements file and post it
                                      tomorrow....I hope. This will accomplish two goals: build our gear
                                      review database and try a less painless method of compliance.
                                      > Jerry
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most
                                      comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                                    • Dave Hicks
                                      I like the idea of a credit card number and a signed agreement, but with some restraint in what is considered delinquent, or otherwise results in a charge to
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 5 3:48 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I like the idea of a credit card number and a signed agreement, but with
                                        some restraint in what is considered delinquent, or otherwise results in a
                                        charge to the account.

                                        For example, one of the complications is problem of "matching the items
                                        arrival date with the testers' calendar or travel/hiking schedule." We
                                        seldom know when the item will arrive, when we apply to test it. For
                                        example, my Hike-N-Light arrived while I was on a trip, so I was
                                        "delinquent" -- albeit I had notified Jerry that I was going to be out. To
                                        his, and your, credit you just list my report as "delinquent" rather than
                                        announce to the world that my house was an easy target for the next two
                                        weeks. So, IMHO, we need some clear understanding of how to deal with
                                        report slippages while maintaining some acceptable level of confidentiality.

                                        dave

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Bob <farmerbob48@...>
                                        To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:47 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance


                                        > I think that requiring a credit card number and a signed agreement is an
                                        > excellent idea. I have monitored two tests so far and both tests there
                                        has
                                        > been a few members that haven't finished all their reports. I think that
                                        > stricter guide lines is needed to weed out the testers that just want free
                                        > products.
                                        >
                                        > I also think that starting an owner review program is a good idea. I know
                                        > that I have a lot of gear and a few friends of mine that are members have
                                        > more gear than I do. This would be a good program to do during times when
                                        > there's no new products being tested and it would give more information
                                        > about products already out there so people could read and get a better
                                        idea
                                        > about a product that they might buy. I think a few products to start this
                                        > owner review program could be the MSR Whisperlite International stove,
                                        > Grivel 10 point crampons, Vasque GT Clarion Impact boots, and the Pur
                                        Water
                                        > Filters.
                                        >
                                        > Farmer Bob
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >From: "GearTester" <geartester@...>
                                        > >Reply-To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                                        > >Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Report compliance
                                        > >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:25:15 -0600
                                        > >
                                        > >We still need to solve this problem. I'm currently considering requiring
                                        a
                                        > >credit card number and signed agreement be provided the manufacturer by
                                        > >each tester before the tester can receive the test item. The agreement
                                        > >would state that the tester authorizes the manufacturer to charge them
                                        full
                                        > >price for the test item if the manufacturer is notified by the list
                                        > >moderator that the tester is in report default.
                                        > >It looks like, if it proves successful, that all our applicable reports
                                        > >will be linked through BackpackingLight.com as was done this week. This
                                        > >opens us up to much larger exposure and scrutiny. We have to get to the
                                        > >point that we have 100% compliance....one way or the other. I'm trying to
                                        > >not have a situation where only certain listers are chosen to report.
                                        > >I'd love to hear other plans for curing this problem.
                                        > >I'm also planning to start a owner review program. I (we) would pick and
                                        > >item and call for owners to give us reports on the selected item. This
                                        > >would allow a much longer experience report than we can now get. We could
                                        > >build a tremendous database of gear reports. What do you think?
                                        > >Jerry
                                        > >
                                        > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                                        > >interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                                        >
                                        >
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