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GVP G4-C Backpack Review

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  • Bill Jeffrey
    GVP G4-C Backpack Review by Bill AsABat Jeffrey July 3, 2001 BACKGROUND I have been backpacking for over 30 years. I began in Scouts, and now teach
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 3, 2001
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      GVP G4-C Backpack Review
      by Bill "AsABat" Jeffrey
      July 3, 2001

      BACKGROUND

      I have been backpacking for over 30 years. I began in Scouts, and now
      teach backpacking to Scouts. Just one year ago I began my conversion
      to the ultra-light backpacking method. All my life I was convinced
      that I needed a large external frame backpack to carry all my stuff,
      and my 1974 Kelty Sonora (think bigger than the Super Tioga), was the
      answer. I just knew that an internal frame pack would drown me in
      sweat.

      Last year I bought a commercial internal frame pack. At 3 pounds 13
      ounces, it was half the weight of my old pack, and worked fairly
      well. Still, I knew it wasn't the answer.

      On a backpack on the PCT near Campo with Read Miller
      ("Reader"), he
      offered to swap packs for a couple miles. Read had a pack made by a
      friend of his, Glen Van Peski. For several hours we talked about how
      the G4 worked, and Read finally convinced me that the G4 really did
      carry the weight on your hips and not your shoulders. Finally, we
      swapped packs, and I couldn't believe how comfortable this little
      pack was.

      A month later we both hiked a 100 miles of PCT in Northern California
      (section N). Read had an extra G4 to loan me. I got closer this time,
      loading the pack, but backing out again. I tried stuffing my 4-1/2
      pound tent, my heavy stove, and all my other junk in there. Finally,
      I got it all in, which surprised me, but I wasn't convinced it
      would
      work. Besides, the weather was threatening to rain all week, and I
      thought there was no way my gear would stay dry in the little pack.
      Little did I know.

      ULTRALIGHT CONVERSION

      During that week's backpack, I saw that the G4 worked extremely
      well,
      and with everything inside wrapped in trash bags, it kept the gear as
      dry as in my heavy pack with the heavy pack cover. I also learned
      that to use a pack this light required a conversion to lighter
      equipment. You can't buy a lightweight backpack and expect to
      carry
      the same heavy loads as before. I had to replace my tent and cooking
      equipment first. When that was done, I was ready to be converted.

      In making my conversion to light backpacking, I replaced most of my
      1970-era equipment with new, lighter equipment. My sleeping bag went
      from 5 to 2 pounds, my stove from 1 pounds to ½ ounce, and my tent
      also from 5 to 2 pounds. Many other items were downsized or
      eliminated. Now I was ready for a lighter pack.

      I happened to meet Glen at Scout summer camp. I was ready to order,
      but had a couple concerns. I'm a little paranoid about losing
      things
      on the trail. Particularly, I wanted a pocket inside to hold my keys
      and money so I could find them at the end of the trail. Also, I carry
      a ham radio, and wanted a more secure closure on a side pocket to
      ensure it wouldn't fall out on the trail. Both of these concerns
      were
      solved in my pack, as described below.

      G4 PACK DESCRIPTION

      The G4 pack is made by GVP Gear (www.gvpgear.com). Glen Van Peski
      (GVP) doesn't make much profit selling these packs, but does it
      more
      as a hobby to give something back to hiking.
      The pack is made of 2.2 ounce ripstop nylon with oxford nylon on the
      bottom and shoulder straps. Earlier versions had lighter 1.1 ounce
      silnylon backs with heavier cordura nylon bottoms. The lighter nylon
      was hard to work with, and the heavier nylon is a bit more durable
      and allows for a lighter bottom material, resulting in about the same
      total weight.

      The pack has three mesh pockets on the sides and back, which are
      quite large. The side pockets can hold 2-liter water bladders with
      ease, and the center pocket can hold a wet tarp and rainfly.

      The back of the pack has two opposing mesh pockets which are used to
      hold a sleeping pad to give cushioning and act as a framesheet. Glen
      recommends 6 sections of a Z-Rest, but other similar pads can be
      folded to fit the pack.

      The shoulder straps and hip belt (YES, the G4 DOES have a hip belt!)
      are oxford nylon and have pockets with velcro closures. This allows
      you to stuff socks, gloves, etc., into the straps for cushioning to
      save weight. Glen also provides a piece of closed cell foam and
      instructions for cutting to make permanent pads if you want, at a
      cost of maybe 1 ounce extra weight. More on this later.

      FIRST TRIPS WITH THE G4

      I have used my G4-C on many trips in the past six months. Most of
      these have been weekend trips, carrying around 22 pounds total
      weight. However, some of these trips were in the desert of Southern
      California, where I had to carry up to two gallons of water for the
      weekend. On these trips my total weight was about 30 pounds, although
      it dropped quickly as I drank my water.

      At 22 pounds the pack felt almost as if I was carrying nothing at
      all. The pack was stable on my back, which is fortunate as I spend a
      lot of time boulder hopping. The hip belt, with just minimal foam
      padding at the hip bones, was comfortable, although you do have to
      remember to cinch it a bit tighter than on most packs. Note that the
      bottom of the pack is wider than the top which allows a loosely-
      stuffed sleeping bag to expand to fill the space and maintain the
      sleeping bag's loft. This lets you pack heavier items higher on
      your
      back, and also fills the lower part of the pack fully so it contours
      around your back to position the hip belt properly. The shoulder
      straps I padded with my polypro gloves and hat, and, since the pack
      was so light and the hip belt fit so well, I had little weight on my
      shoulders and felt very comfortable.

      A couple concerns of mine were waterproofness and off-trail
      durability. On one spring cross-country desert trip I had the chance
      to test both. The route began at 2600 feet in the Borrego desert and
      climbed up a canyon.

      As the canyon narrowed various thorny plants grabbed at my pack.
      Several times I was sure it would tear, but all that happened was
      minor superficial scrapes, with no tearing. Even the mesh pockets
      held up without harm. I understand that the semi-custom pack has a
      more durable mesh than the standard, but if this is a concern check
      with Glen as he may be changing the side pocket material in the
      future. Since the pack is narrow, the sides are not as exposed to
      brush as a larger pack would be.

      As for waterproofing, while the pack fabric is water repellent, the
      seams are not sealed. Following Glen's instructions, I placed my
      sleeping bag in a plastic trash compactor bag, and my clothing in a
      second bag. At 3600 feet snow flurries began, and at 4100 feet the
      snow was falling wet and heavy. The pack was covered in snow, which
      melted as we retreated down the mountain. When I opened the pack I
      found dampness just inside the top of the bag, but the plastic bags
      kept everything dry. Contrast this with a traditional heavy pack
      cover which can be torn. Glen's method works great, and the big
      mesh
      pocket on the back lets you dry things like a wet rain fly.

      The only thing that got wet was the gloves and hat I had in the
      shoulder strap pad pockets. I would recommend putting these in
      plastic bags first - or you could use foam for padding at the cost of
      about an ounce.

      LONG TERM USE

      I recently loaded up the G4 for a summer trip along the Pacific Crest
      Trail in northern Yosemite. I had a base weight of 13 pounds, plus a
      3 pound bear can and a week of food. Initial pack weight was 35
      pounds. The trail climbs up and down canyons for several days before
      striking north along the crest. Weather was generally warm, with
      strong winds on one day. Elevations ranged from 8,000 to nearly
      11,000 feet.

      The first day the pack carried well, although the bear can filled a
      great deal of the pack. Even after 22 miles on the trail, my back and
      hips felt fine, although my feet were, of course, a bit tired. The
      second day was 17 more miles of the same. I had the bear can
      positioned differently in the pack, and was a bit off balance. It
      took some trying, but finally all was well. However, by the end of
      the day I was wishing the pack had a bit more to its suspension
      system.

      On day three the trail's grade improved, and the pack and I flew
      26
      miles. Unfortunately, I pulled an abdominal muscle during a rest
      break, and determined I would end my hike the following day. I do not
      believe this injury was from the pack. In fact, the light weight of
      the pack and the way it carried on my hips made me more comfortable
      than I would have been with my heavy internal frame pack.

      The final day was 13 miles along a ridge. There were several short
      but steep and icy snow traverses, which were made easier by the low
      center of gravity of my pack. Also, the wind was gusting to near 60
      MPH, requiring trekking poles to maintain balance on the ridge.
      Again, the small profile of the pack helped in this condition.

      COMPARISONS

      Besides my own packs, I have had the opportunity to observe many
      others in the field. I know of no other pack which offers the
      advantages of the G4. The closest comparable pack would be the
      Golite. Most people I have met with the Golite, even while praising
      their pack, have complained of back or shoulder pain because of the
      lack of a hip belt. Golite now makes a pack with a hip belt, but it
      both weighs and costs more than the G4.

      ORDERING

      Order forms are available on the Internet at www.gvpgear.com but you
      have to print the form and mail it with your check. The standard G4
      comes in one size which fits a torso of 18"-22" and costs $75. The
      semi-custom costs $125 and is available in three sizes to fit from
      16" to 24". The pack capacity is the same for all sizes. The semi-
      custom can be customized with different fabrics, colors, pockets, and
      straps, among other options, some of which result in small additional
      costs. What's not mentioned is that the semi-custom is made one
      at a
      time, so there should be higher attention to quality.

      SUMMARY

      The G4 is THE pack for someone who is SERIOUS about going lightweight
      backpacking. However, you cannot simply buy this pack without
      critically reviewing everything you put into it.

      I have found Glen Van Peski to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, etc.,
      in his endeavors. Please remember that if he doesn't get back to
      you
      right away, he's probably out in the backcountry testing his
      latest
      pack modification. The last time I saw him, he was carrying a 6-ounce
      pack which felt like it was filled with styrofoam peanuts!
    • GearTester
      Excellent report, Bill. I couldn t have said it better....really...lol. I ve added a sternum strap and a top cross pouch for my hydration system to mine. Both
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 4, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Excellent report, Bill. I couldn't have said it better....really...lol. I've
        added a sternum strap and a top cross pouch for my hydration system to mine.
        Both modifications have worked well so far.
        Jerry
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
        interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bill Jeffrey" <wjj2001@...>
        To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 11:42 PM
        Subject: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


        GVP G4-C Backpack Review
        by Bill "AsABat" Jeffrey
        July 3, 2001

        BACKGROUND

        I have been backpacking for over 30 years. I began in Scouts, and now
        teach backpacking to Scouts. Just one year ago I began my conversion
        to the ultra-light backpacking method. All my life I was convinced
        that I needed a large external frame backpack to carry all my stuff,
        and my 1974 Kelty Sonora (think bigger than the Super Tioga), was the
        answer. I just knew that an internal frame pack would drown me in
        sweat.

        Last year I bought a commercial internal frame pack. At 3 pounds 13
        ounces, it was half the weight of my old pack, and worked fairly
        well. Still, I knew it wasn't the answer.

        On a backpack on the PCT near Campo with Read Miller
        ("Reader"), he
        offered to swap packs for a couple miles. Read had a pack made by a
        friend of his, Glen Van Peski. For several hours we talked about how
        the G4 worked, and Read finally convinced me that the G4 really did
        carry the weight on your hips and not your shoulders. Finally, we
        swapped packs, and I couldn't believe how comfortable this little
        pack was.

        A month later we both hiked a 100 miles of PCT in Northern California
        (section N). Read had an extra G4 to loan me. I got closer this time,
        loading the pack, but backing out again. I tried stuffing my 4-1/2
        pound tent, my heavy stove, and all my other junk in there. Finally,
        I got it all in, which surprised me, but I wasn't convinced it
        would
        work. Besides, the weather was threatening to rain all week, and I
        thought there was no way my gear would stay dry in the little pack.
        Little did I know.

        ULTRALIGHT CONVERSION

        During that week's backpack, I saw that the G4 worked extremely
        well,
        and with everything inside wrapped in trash bags, it kept the gear as
        dry as in my heavy pack with the heavy pack cover. I also learned
        that to use a pack this light required a conversion to lighter
        equipment. You can't buy a lightweight backpack and expect to
        carry
        the same heavy loads as before. I had to replace my tent and cooking
        equipment first. When that was done, I was ready to be converted.

        In making my conversion to light backpacking, I replaced most of my
        1970-era equipment with new, lighter equipment. My sleeping bag went
        from 5 to 2 pounds, my stove from 1 pounds to ½ ounce, and my tent
        also from 5 to 2 pounds. Many other items were downsized or
        eliminated. Now I was ready for a lighter pack.

        I happened to meet Glen at Scout summer camp. I was ready to order,
        but had a couple concerns. I'm a little paranoid about losing
        things
        on the trail. Particularly, I wanted a pocket inside to hold my keys
        and money so I could find them at the end of the trail. Also, I carry
        a ham radio, and wanted a more secure closure on a side pocket to
        ensure it wouldn't fall out on the trail. Both of these concerns
        were
        solved in my pack, as described below.

        G4 PACK DESCRIPTION

        The G4 pack is made by GVP Gear (www.gvpgear.com). Glen Van Peski
        (GVP) doesn't make much profit selling these packs, but does it
        more
        as a hobby to give something back to hiking.
        The pack is made of 2.2 ounce ripstop nylon with oxford nylon on the
        bottom and shoulder straps. Earlier versions had lighter 1.1 ounce
        silnylon backs with heavier cordura nylon bottoms. The lighter nylon
        was hard to work with, and the heavier nylon is a bit more durable
        and allows for a lighter bottom material, resulting in about the same
        total weight.

        The pack has three mesh pockets on the sides and back, which are
        quite large. The side pockets can hold 2-liter water bladders with
        ease, and the center pocket can hold a wet tarp and rainfly.

        The back of the pack has two opposing mesh pockets which are used to
        hold a sleeping pad to give cushioning and act as a framesheet. Glen
        recommends 6 sections of a Z-Rest, but other similar pads can be
        folded to fit the pack.

        The shoulder straps and hip belt (YES, the G4 DOES have a hip belt!)
        are oxford nylon and have pockets with velcro closures. This allows
        you to stuff socks, gloves, etc., into the straps for cushioning to
        save weight. Glen also provides a piece of closed cell foam and
        instructions for cutting to make permanent pads if you want, at a
        cost of maybe 1 ounce extra weight. More on this later.

        FIRST TRIPS WITH THE G4

        I have used my G4-C on many trips in the past six months. Most of
        these have been weekend trips, carrying around 22 pounds total
        weight. However, some of these trips were in the desert of Southern
        California, where I had to carry up to two gallons of water for the
        weekend. On these trips my total weight was about 30 pounds, although
        it dropped quickly as I drank my water.

        At 22 pounds the pack felt almost as if I was carrying nothing at
        all. The pack was stable on my back, which is fortunate as I spend a
        lot of time boulder hopping. The hip belt, with just minimal foam
        padding at the hip bones, was comfortable, although you do have to
        remember to cinch it a bit tighter than on most packs. Note that the
        bottom of the pack is wider than the top which allows a loosely-
        stuffed sleeping bag to expand to fill the space and maintain the
        sleeping bag's loft. This lets you pack heavier items higher on
        your
        back, and also fills the lower part of the pack fully so it contours
        around your back to position the hip belt properly. The shoulder
        straps I padded with my polypro gloves and hat, and, since the pack
        was so light and the hip belt fit so well, I had little weight on my
        shoulders and felt very comfortable.

        A couple concerns of mine were waterproofness and off-trail
        durability. On one spring cross-country desert trip I had the chance
        to test both. The route began at 2600 feet in the Borrego desert and
        climbed up a canyon.

        As the canyon narrowed various thorny plants grabbed at my pack.
        Several times I was sure it would tear, but all that happened was
        minor superficial scrapes, with no tearing. Even the mesh pockets
        held up without harm. I understand that the semi-custom pack has a
        more durable mesh than the standard, but if this is a concern check
        with Glen as he may be changing the side pocket material in the
        future. Since the pack is narrow, the sides are not as exposed to
        brush as a larger pack would be.

        As for waterproofing, while the pack fabric is water repellent, the
        seams are not sealed. Following Glen's instructions, I placed my
        sleeping bag in a plastic trash compactor bag, and my clothing in a
        second bag. At 3600 feet snow flurries began, and at 4100 feet the
        snow was falling wet and heavy. The pack was covered in snow, which
        melted as we retreated down the mountain. When I opened the pack I
        found dampness just inside the top of the bag, but the plastic bags
        kept everything dry. Contrast this with a traditional heavy pack
        cover which can be torn. Glen's method works great, and the big
        mesh
        pocket on the back lets you dry things like a wet rain fly.

        The only thing that got wet was the gloves and hat I had in the
        shoulder strap pad pockets. I would recommend putting these in
        plastic bags first - or you could use foam for padding at the cost of
        about an ounce.

        LONG TERM USE

        I recently loaded up the G4 for a summer trip along the Pacific Crest
        Trail in northern Yosemite. I had a base weight of 13 pounds, plus a
        3 pound bear can and a week of food. Initial pack weight was 35
        pounds. The trail climbs up and down canyons for several days before
        striking north along the crest. Weather was generally warm, with
        strong winds on one day. Elevations ranged from 8,000 to nearly
        11,000 feet.

        The first day the pack carried well, although the bear can filled a
        great deal of the pack. Even after 22 miles on the trail, my back and
        hips felt fine, although my feet were, of course, a bit tired. The
        second day was 17 more miles of the same. I had the bear can
        positioned differently in the pack, and was a bit off balance. It
        took some trying, but finally all was well. However, by the end of
        the day I was wishing the pack had a bit more to its suspension
        system.

        On day three the trail's grade improved, and the pack and I flew
        26
        miles. Unfortunately, I pulled an abdominal muscle during a rest
        break, and determined I would end my hike the following day. I do not
        believe this injury was from the pack. In fact, the light weight of
        the pack and the way it carried on my hips made me more comfortable
        than I would have been with my heavy internal frame pack.

        The final day was 13 miles along a ridge. There were several short
        but steep and icy snow traverses, which were made easier by the low
        center of gravity of my pack. Also, the wind was gusting to near 60
        MPH, requiring trekking poles to maintain balance on the ridge.
        Again, the small profile of the pack helped in this condition.

        COMPARISONS

        Besides my own packs, I have had the opportunity to observe many
        others in the field. I know of no other pack which offers the
        advantages of the G4. The closest comparable pack would be the
        Golite. Most people I have met with the Golite, even while praising
        their pack, have complained of back or shoulder pain because of the
        lack of a hip belt. Golite now makes a pack with a hip belt, but it
        both weighs and costs more than the G4.

        ORDERING

        Order forms are available on the Internet at www.gvpgear.com but you
        have to print the form and mail it with your check. The standard G4
        comes in one size which fits a torso of 18"-22" and costs $75. The
        semi-custom costs $125 and is available in three sizes to fit from
        16" to 24". The pack capacity is the same for all sizes. The semi-
        custom can be customized with different fabrics, colors, pockets, and
        straps, among other options, some of which result in small additional
        costs. What's not mentioned is that the semi-custom is made one
        at a
        time, so there should be higher attention to quality.

        SUMMARY

        The G4 is THE pack for someone who is SERIOUS about going lightweight
        backpacking. However, you cannot simply buy this pack without
        critically reviewing everything you put into it.

        I have found Glen Van Peski to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, etc.,
        in his endeavors. Please remember that if he doesn't get back to
        you
        right away, he's probably out in the backcountry testing his
        latest
        pack modification. The last time I saw him, he was carrying a 6-ounce
        pack which felt like it was filled with styrofoam peanuts!



        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Bill Jeffrey
        ... to mine. I ve never been a big fan of sternum straps, as they seem to interfere with my breathing. Then again, I m 6 4 and 200+, so I usually don t have a
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 4, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
          > added a sternum strap and a top cross pouch for my hydration system
          to mine.

          I've never been a big fan of sternum straps, as they seem to
          interfere with my breathing. Then again, I'm 6'4" and 200+, so I
          usually don't have a problem with the shoulder straps sliding.
          However, one day when my load wasn't balanced real well, and I still
          had most of my food, a sternum strap would have helped a little. I'd
          probably use just wrap a small nylon strap around the shoulder straps
          so it could be removed when I didn't want it.

          I've met several hikers smaller than me who have considered an added
          sternum strap essential.

          Bill
        • Dave Hicks
          Great report, Bill. Welcome to the G4 club. Chainsaw ... From: Bill Jeffrey To: Sent: Wednesday, July
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 4, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Great report, Bill.

            Welcome to the G4 club.

            Chainsaw

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bill Jeffrey <wjj2001@...>
            To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:42 AM
            Subject: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


            GVP G4-C Backpack Review
            by Bill "AsABat" Jeffrey
            July 3, 2001

            BACKGROUND

            SNIP
          • Dave Hicks
            Jerry Please post details of the top cross pouch for my hydration system. Last you reported, you were considering adding an internal pocket. As I responded,
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 4, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Jerry

              Please post details of the top cross pouch for my hydration system. Last
              you reported, you were considering adding an internal pocket. As I
              responded, I was also; but was concerned about how to manage the hose.

              I like you want to get the water centered. Higher would be an advantage
              also.

              Chainsaw

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: GearTester <geartester@...>
              To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:52 AM
              Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


              > Excellent report, Bill. I couldn't have said it better....really...lol.
              I've
              > added a sternum strap and a top cross pouch for my hydration system to
              mine.
              > Both modifications have worked well so far.
              > Jerry
              SNIP
            • GearTester
              I run about 6 2 and 220. I ve also dislocated my right shoulder 6 times and fairly severely damaged my neck....it s not an option for me. I wouldn t consider
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 4, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                I run about 6'2" and 220. I've also dislocated my right shoulder 6 times and
                fairly severely damaged my neck....it's not an option for me. I wouldn't
                consider a pack that doesn't have a sternum strap. If it interfered with
                your breathing it was too tight. Your sternum strap needn't be too tight.
                It's just to keep the shoulder straps from riding out.
                Jerry
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Bill Jeffrey" <wjj2001@...>
                To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 5:19 PM
                Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                > I've never been a big fan of sternum straps, as they seem to
                > interfere with my breathing. >
                > Bill
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Eric Jensen
                ... of ... Great report! It was so well done and mirrored my recent experience with my new G4 I don t feel I need to write my own report. A couple of
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  > The only thing that got wet was the gloves and hat I had in the
                  > shoulder strap pad pockets. I would recommend putting these in
                  > plastic bags first - or you could use foam for padding at the cost
                  of
                  > about an ounce.


                  Great report! It was so well done and mirrored my recent experience
                  with my new G4 I don't feel I need to write my own report. A couple
                  of comments: The socks, hat and gloves that I stuffed into the hip
                  and shoulder straps did get a lttle damp from sweat. I will take
                  your advice and wrap them in small baggies before stuffing. That
                  should work.

                  Also, I spoke with Glen at GVPgear about my concerns that my G4
                  shoulder straps seem to slowly spread apart and as a result, has
                  given me the desire to install a sternum strap. Glen instead
                  suggested I clip on a carabiner to the existing loops on the shoulder
                  straps to bring them together. Taking his advice, I bought a
                  lightweight plastic-molded key chain-type carabiner (always thinking
                  lightweight) to use on my next hike.
                • Bill Jeffrey
                  ... system. Last ... hose. Tom Reynolds on the PCT-L list designed his own pack with light internal stays and a method of hanging a water bladder inside from
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > Please post details of the top cross pouch for my hydration
                    system. Last
                    > you reported, you were considering adding an internal pocket. As I
                    > responded, I was also; but was concerned about how to manage the
                    hose.

                    Tom Reynolds on the PCT-L list designed his own pack with light
                    internal stays and a method of hanging a water bladder inside from
                    the top of the pack so the weight stays high. I can't remember just
                    how he attached the bladder though.

                    I'm not sure how this would work on a pack without stays. Maybe you
                    could sew a mesh bag near where the shoulder straps attach.

                    I find one of the side mesh pockets works great, taking care to
                    balance with weight of the water on the other side of the pack.

                    Bill "AsABat" Jeffrey
                  • Amy Friends Stone
                    ... I don t use that pack, so this may not be relative, but I have a hard time with this. Usually by the end of the day, especially if I m using a platy with
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >I find one of the side mesh pockets works great, taking care to
                      >balance with weight of the water on the other side of the pack.

                      I don't use that pack, so this may not be relative, but I have a hard time
                      with this. Usually by the end of the day, especially if I'm using a platy
                      with a hose, the water weight has decreased and the stuff used to balance
                      the load is now too heavy. I much prefer having the water weight centered
                      to start with, if I can possibly do it.

                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                    • GearTester
                      It s pretty straight forward. I went though my old stuff sack collection (I m trying to use them up for something) until I found one with the right width. It
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
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                        It's pretty straight forward. I went though my old stuff sack collection
                        (I'm trying to use them up for something) until I found one with the right
                        width. It was too long so I cut it down to just longer than my reservoir. I
                        sewed a loop on each shoulder strap just "down" from the straps upper seam.
                        The loops were "V" shaped (like a tarp tie-out) with the point of the V
                        pointing "up" toward the pack. I then sewed a double-sided (hook on one
                        side, loop on the other) strip of Velcro opposite each loop on the cut down
                        stuff bag with it laying across the top of the pack. I the sewed piece of
                        elastic cord on the opposite side of the stuff bag on each of the two
                        corners. I put cord locks on each cord. The two cord locks lock in one of
                        the side loops on each side of the front of the pack just like the top draw
                        elastic cord locks to the center loop on the bottom of the pack. The two
                        elastic cords keep it secure as the water is used, does a better job of
                        closing the top than just the provided draw cord, and the whole thing is
                        easily removable. I take my reservoir into my hammock or tent at night and
                        it makes it much easier to attach to the center line of the hammock with the
                        two Velcro straps. I hope this is clear. If not, let me know and I'll try
                        again.
                        Jerry
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                        interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Dave Hicks" <daveh@...>
                        To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:55 PM
                        Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


                        > Jerry
                        >
                        > Please post details of the top cross pouch for my hydration system. Last
                        > you reported, you were considering adding an internal pocket. As I
                        > responded, I was also; but was concerned about how to manage the hose.
                        >
                        > I like you want to get the water centered. Higher would be an advantage
                        > also.
                        >
                        > Chainsaw
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: GearTester <geartester@...>
                        > To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:52 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                        >
                        >
                        > > Excellent report, Bill. I couldn't have said it better....really...lol.
                        > I've
                        > > added a sternum strap and a top cross pouch for my hydration system to
                        > mine.
                        > > Both modifications have worked well so far.
                        > > Jerry
                        > SNIP
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Ryan Jordan
                        Jerry, this is a neat idea. What is the advantage of having a special bag for the hydration reservoir? I m used to just tossing mine on top of my pack
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
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                          Jerry, this is a neat idea. What is the advantage of having a special bag
                          for the hydration reservoir? I'm used to just tossing mine on top of my pack
                          contents, as it is then easily accessible for refills throughout the day. It
                          seems to me that with the reservoir in a special sleeve, it would be easy to
                          remove, but a pain to put back, with all the gear in the pack. Or do you
                          have to unpack the contents, put the reservoir back in, and then repack? Is
                          this really a big deal while on the trail?
                          Ryan

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "GearTester" <geartester@...>
                          To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:31 PM
                          Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


                          > It's pretty straight forward. I went though my old stuff sack collection
                          > (I'm trying to use them up for something) until I found one with the right
                          > width. It was too long so I cut it down to just longer than my reservoir.
                          I
                          > sewed a loop on each shoulder strap just "down" from the straps upper
                          seam.
                          > The loops were "V" shaped (like a tarp tie-out) with the point of the V
                          > pointing "up" toward the pack. I then sewed a double-sided (hook on one
                          > side, loop on the other) strip of Velcro opposite each loop on the cut
                          down
                          > stuff bag with it laying across the top of the pack. I the sewed piece of
                          > elastic cord on the opposite side of the stuff bag on each of the two
                          > corners. I put cord locks on each cord. The two cord locks lock in one of
                          > the side loops on each side of the front of the pack just like the top
                          draw
                          > elastic cord locks to the center loop on the bottom of the pack. The two
                          > elastic cords keep it secure as the water is used, does a better job of
                          > closing the top than just the provided draw cord, and the whole thing is
                          > easily removable. I take my reservoir into my hammock or tent at night and
                          > it makes it much easier to attach to the center line of the hammock with
                          the
                          > two Velcro straps. I hope this is clear. If not, let me know and I'll try
                          > again.
                          > Jerry
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                          > interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Dave Hicks" <daveh@...>
                          > To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:55 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                          >
                          >
                          > > Jerry
                          > >
                          > > Please post details of the top cross pouch for my hydration system.
                          Last
                          > > you reported, you were considering adding an internal pocket. As I
                          > > responded, I was also; but was concerned about how to manage the hose.
                          > >
                          > > I like you want to get the water centered. Higher would be an advantage
                          > > also.
                          > >
                          > > Chainsaw
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: GearTester <geartester@...>
                          > > To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:52 AM
                          > > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > Excellent report, Bill. I couldn't have said it
                          better....really...lol.
                          > > I've
                          > > > added a sternum strap and a top cross pouch for my hydration system to
                          > > mine.
                          > > > Both modifications have worked well so far.
                          > > > Jerry
                          > > SNIP
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • GearTester
                          The reservoir rides on outside top of the pack....like the top pouch on most packs that most people use for their reservoir. Mine is just much smaller and
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
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                            The reservoir rides on outside top of the pack....like the top pouch on most
                            packs that most people use for their reservoir. Mine is just much smaller
                            and lighter (just the size of the bladder). The bladder never comes out of
                            this pouch (future ones will probably have a Velcro patch instead of a
                            drawstring). It is easily removable for filling from my gravity system,
                            hanging in my hammock, laying beside me when I eat, etc. It keeps the
                            bladder clean and protected and mounts easily back on the pack. is that any
                            clearer? BTW, and unintended side benefit is the "neater" closure on the G4.
                            I also turned the drawstring around (made it "come out" on the opposite
                            side) so that when I pull it down and secure it, it pulls from the "top" of
                            the "flap" and not the bottom.
                            Jerry
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                            interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Ryan Jordan" <bigskyry@...>
                            To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:44 PM
                            Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


                            > Jerry, this is a neat idea. What is the advantage of having a special bag
                            > for the hydration reservoir? I'm used to just tossing mine on top of my
                            pack
                            > contents, as it is then easily accessible for refills throughout the day.
                            It
                            > seems to me that with the reservoir in a special sleeve, it would be easy
                            to
                            > remove, but a pain to put back, with all the gear in the pack. Or do you
                            > have to unpack the contents, put the reservoir back in, and then repack?
                            Is
                            > this really a big deal while on the trail?
                            > Ryan
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "GearTester" <geartester@...>
                            > To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:31 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                            >
                            >
                            > > It's pretty straight forward. I went though my old stuff sack collection
                            > > (I'm trying to use them up for something) until I found one with the
                            right
                            > > width. It was too long so I cut it down to just longer than my
                            reservoir.
                            > I
                            > > sewed a loop on each shoulder strap just "down" from the straps upper
                            > seam.
                            > > The loops were "V" shaped (like a tarp tie-out) with the point of the V
                            > > pointing "up" toward the pack. I then sewed a double-sided (hook on one
                            > > side, loop on the other) strip of Velcro opposite each loop on the cut
                            > down
                            > > stuff bag with it laying across the top of the pack. I the sewed piece
                            of
                            > > elastic cord on the opposite side of the stuff bag on each of the two
                            > > corners. I put cord locks on each cord. The two cord locks lock in one
                            of
                            > > the side loops on each side of the front of the pack just like the top
                            > draw
                            > > elastic cord locks to the center loop on the bottom of the pack. The two
                            > > elastic cords keep it secure as the water is used, does a better job of
                            > > closing the top than just the provided draw cord, and the whole thing is
                            > > easily removable. I take my reservoir into my hammock or tent at night
                            and
                            > > it makes it much easier to attach to the center line of the hammock with
                            > the
                            > > two Velcro straps. I hope this is clear. If not, let me know and I'll
                            try
                            > > again.
                            > > Jerry
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                            > > interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "Dave Hicks" <daveh@...>
                            > > To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:55 PM
                            > > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > Jerry
                            > > >
                            > > > Please post details of the top cross pouch for my hydration system.
                            > Last
                            > > > you reported, you were considering adding an internal pocket. As I
                            > > > responded, I was also; but was concerned about how to manage the hose.
                            > > >
                            > > > I like you want to get the water centered. Higher would be an
                            advantage
                            > > > also.
                            > > >
                            > > > Chainsaw
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: GearTester <geartester@...>
                            > > > To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:52 AM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > > Excellent report, Bill. I couldn't have said it
                            > better....really...lol.
                            > > > I've
                            > > > > added a sternum strap and a top cross pouch for my hydration system
                            to
                            > > > mine.
                            > > > > Both modifications have worked well so far.
                            > > > > Jerry
                            > > > SNIP
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • GearTester
                            My...that wasn t even clear to me and I wrote it.....lol. The drawstring I m talking about this the stock one that comes on the pack to close the top. It is an
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
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                              My...that wasn't even clear to me and I wrote it.....lol. The drawstring I'm
                              talking about this the stock one that comes on the pack to close the top. It
                              is an elastic cord that acts as a drawstring and secures through a loop on
                              the front, bottom, center of the pack. I just felt it came out as a
                              drawstring on the wrong side of the top. Boy, I hope that clears it up.
                              Jerry
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                              interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "GearTester" <geartester@...>
                              To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 5:25 PM
                              Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review
                              > I also turned the drawstring around (made it "come out" on the opposite
                              > side) so that when I pull it down and secure it, it pulls from the "top"
                              of
                              > the "flap" and not the bottom.
                              > Jerry
                            • richard.dreher@jacobs.com
                              I ve got it! One water bladder on each side can be connected by a hose like fuel tanks on an airplane. When the load becomes unbalanced, a little pump can
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 5, 2001
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                                I've got it!

                                One water bladder on each side can be connected by a hose like fuel
                                tanks on an airplane. When the load becomes unbalanced, a little pump
                                can transfer water from one bladder to the other to equalize the
                                weight.

                                Gotta go--off to the patent office.

                                --Rick

                                --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "Amy Friends Stone" <coelura@h...>
                                wrote:
                                > >I find one of the side mesh pockets works great, taking care to
                                > >balance with weight of the water on the other side of the pack.
                                >
                                > I don't use that pack, so this may not be relative, but I have a
                                hard time
                                > with this. Usually by the end of the day, especially if I'm using
                                a platy
                                > with a hose, the water weight has decreased and the stuff used to
                                balance
                                > the load is now too heavy. I much prefer having the water weight
                                centered
                                > to start with, if I can possibly do it.
                                >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                              • GearTester
                                One other thing......Platys are famous (for me, anyway) for having the cap pop off....That would ruin my whole day if it was inside my pack at the time. It
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 6, 2001
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                                  One other thing......Platys are famous (for me, anyway) for having the cap
                                  pop off....That would ruin my whole day if it was inside my pack at the
                                  time. It only takes having this happen to you once or twice to be really
                                  certain it can't happen again....lol.
                                  Jerry
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                                  interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Ryan Jordan" <bigskyry@...>
                                  To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:44 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


                                  What is the advantage of having a special bag
                                  > for the hydration reservoir? > Ryan
                                • GearTester
                                  I was probably unclear on one part. The two sided hook and loop is a 3 or so tab...not sew on full length to the pouch. I pass it though the loops on the
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jul 6, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I was probably unclear on one part. The two sided hook and loop is a 3" or
                                    so tab...not sew on full length to the pouch. I pass it though the loops on
                                    the shoulder straps and back to itself to secure the top of the pouch to the
                                    top of the shoulder straps.
                                    jerry
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackGearTest : the most comprehensive
                                    interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "GearTester" <geartester@...>
                                    To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 5:25 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] GVP G4-C Backpack Review


                                    > The reservoir rides on outside top of the pack....like the top pouch on
                                    most
                                    > packs that most people use for their reservoir. > Jerry
                                  • woward@microrent.com
                                    You wrote an excellent review. I m curious about your lightweight epiphany. What are you using now to take your tent and sleeping bag each from 5# to 2#,
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jul 25, 2001
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                                      You wrote an excellent review. I'm curious about your "lightweight"
                                      epiphany.

                                      What are you using now to take your tent and sleeping bag each from
                                      5# to 2#, your stove to 1/2 oz, etc.?

                                      Thanks for sharing.

                                      Bill
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