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Re: [BackpackGearTest] for HSSC hydration folks (and others :)

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  • Derek Jones
    Your comments on the solution (and mine as well, if you are talking about my report) are certainly what HSSC needs to hear, but I believe that gear
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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      Your comments on the solution (and mine as well, if you are talking about my
      report) are certainly what HSSC needs to hear, but I believe that gear
      modification is a no-no during the test period, as it's our job to test the
      gear as supplied.

      That mouthpiece IS horrid. Have you tried blowing the water back into it?
      It inflates your bladder with air and you have to suck the air back out
      before you get to water again, but it stopped the leaking. *shrug*

      If I keep using my Fluid later, though, I will definitely be changing out
      the mouthpiece.

      -derek

      On 8/1/03 1:17 PM, "Jennifer Joy" <jjoy@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > I'm doing my first test run, so sorry if these are chestnuts.
      >
      > 1. Is it ok to modify the gear at all?
      >
      > Keep reading if you say "why".
      >
      > 2. Is the HSSC mouthpiece supposed to leak when "open"?
      >
      > I thought it was but another tester's comment from the Fluid
      > test made me wonder. Mine leaks like crazy. I have nearly
      > come to grief a number of times trying to close mine while
      > riding my bike. Putting on a Camelbak mouthpiece fixes this
      > problem. I feel I have adequately experienced that aspect
      > of the gear and would rather not crash continuing to test
      > it, but I just wondered what I was was supposed to do. My
      > second problem is that I can't get enough water through the
      > HSSC mouthpiece to keep from suffering from dehydration. I
      > know a leak combined with insufficient flow sounds crazy,
      > but that is my experience.
      >
      > I know wear & tear are part of the test so I understand if
      > modification is not cool. However, I may have to quit using
      > this biking riding and only use it for hiking in that case.
      > It's just not safe.
      >
      > 3. If is it not ok to modify gear, then is it ok to say
      > I ran into this problem when testing, this was found to fix
      > it? ( for example $6 for a camelbak mouthpiece saves a $70 pack)
      >
      > Otherwise, a very happy tester, and thanks,
      > Jennifer
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Shane
      ... The general rule is that, unless there is a concern for safety, you should not modify gear during the test period. ... Can you explain how the mouthpiece
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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        > I'm doing my first test run, so sorry if these are chestnuts.
        >
        > 1. Is it ok to modify the gear at all?

        The general rule is that, unless there is a concern for safety, you should
        not modify gear during the test period.

        > Keep reading if you say "why".
        >
        > 2. Is the HSSC mouthpiece supposed to leak when "open"?
        >
        > I thought it was but another tester's comment from the Fluid
        > test made me wonder. Mine leaks like crazy.

        Can you explain how the mouthpiece functions? I have only ever used a bite
        valve.

        Do you feel that your mouthpiece is defective?

        Shane
      • Jennifer Joy
        Ok, this is where being on the digest bites (ha). It s so hard to reply to a message. Yes, bite valve, a better name, I m short on sleep and all I could come
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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          Ok, this is where being on the digest bites (ha). It's so hard to
          reply to a message.

          Yes, bite valve, a better name, I'm short on sleep and all I
          could come up with was mouthpiece which brought back weird
          memories of high school band!

          > Can you explain how the mouthpiece functions? I have only ever used a
          > bite valve.

          It's a bite valve that looks like a fish with big lips. You
          bite on the fish lips sideways (if it was a fish it would be be
          on the jawbone hinge) and, in theory, tons of water comes out.

          You have to pull the bite valve open (1/8 in, few mm) for
          it to work. The valve system is long, maybe a couple of
          inches, so the open/closed happens away from the bite valve tip.

          In my case, if you are wearing the bag with the tube
          dangling it pees all over your leg in short order. I thought
          perhaps it was designed to be closed after every use, but maybe
          it is not. Should I ask the company?

          It's a truly horrible design because it requires (for me)
          two hands and until you can find time to do it your precious water
          is dribbling away. My one handed method finds me jabbing the
          bite valve into my closed lips hoping I jabbed hard enough to close
          the thing before I hit that tree <BONK>.

          It's great for hiking, I mean, you have plenty of time, but involved
          mountain biking is hard.

          > Do you feel that your mouthpiece is defective?

          I'm not sure, which is why I'm wondering if other testers find
          that the bite valve leaks while it is in the open state.

          Thanks,
          jen "fish lips" joy
        • rebecca@backpackgeartest.org
          ... Hee. New trail name, perhaps?
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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            Quoting Jennifer Joy <jjoy@...>:

            > jen "fish lips" joy
            >

            Hee. New trail name, perhaps?
          • Chief Moderator
            It sound s like you have some material in the mouth piece interfering with the seal. Ask them about how you disassemble it and clean it. MSR bite valves do the
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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              It sound's like you have some material in the mouth piece interfering
              with the seal. Ask them about how you disassemble it and clean it. MSR
              bite valves do the same thing.
              Jerry


              <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> http://www.BackpackGearTest.org :
              the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jennifer Joy [mailto:jjoy@...]
              Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:54 PM
              To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [BackpackGearTest] RE: for HSSC hydration folks (and others :)



              Ok, this is where being on the digest bites (ha). It's so hard to
              reply to a message.

              Yes, bite valve, a better name, I'm short on sleep and all I
              could come up with was mouthpiece which brought back weird
              memories of high school band!

              > Can you explain how the mouthpiece functions? I have only ever used a
              > bite valve.

              It's a bite valve that looks like a fish with big lips. You
              bite on the fish lips sideways (if it was a fish it would be be
              on the jawbone hinge) and, in theory, tons of water comes out.

              You have to pull the bite valve open (1/8 in, few mm) for
              it to work. The valve system is long, maybe a couple of
              inches, so the open/closed happens away from the bite valve tip.

              In my case, if you are wearing the bag with the tube
              dangling it pees all over your leg in short order. I thought
              perhaps it was designed to be closed after every use, but maybe
              it is not. Should I ask the company?

              It's a truly horrible design because it requires (for me)
              two hands and until you can find time to do it your precious water
              is dribbling away. My one handed method finds me jabbing the
              bite valve into my closed lips hoping I jabbed hard enough to close
              the thing before I hit that tree <BONK>.

              It's great for hiking, I mean, you have plenty of time, but involved
              mountain biking is hard.

              > Do you feel that your mouthpiece is defective?

              I'm not sure, which is why I'm wondering if other testers find
              that the bite valve leaks while it is in the open state.

              Thanks,
              jen "fish lips" joy


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            • Derek Jones
              Not likely--it disassembles by pulling it out. Unlike MSR, Camelbak, and Platypus bite valves, the HSSC is a solid piece of plastic, with a convex end, and a
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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                Not likely--it disassembles by pulling it out. Unlike MSR, Camelbak, and
                Platypus bite valves, the HSSC is a solid piece of plastic, with a convex
                end, and a vertical slit in the end.

                IOW:

                ===)
                (side view)

                with a vertical slit on the end of that that opens *outward* when you
                bite. So it *never* makes a good seal, unless you can come up with a way
                to make the atmospheric pressure greater than that of the valve and hose.
                All of the other manufacturer's valves open *inward*, and are generally
                a molded then welded separate piece of plastic from the rest of the bite
                valve. Plus, by opening inward, any pressure from water/air in the
                bladder, hose, or valve, helps to keep the valve shut.

                It's just a hideously designed bite valve, and is made that way for no
                other reason than economics. As I described in one of my replies, I
                circumvent this failure by blowing all of the water back into the
                bladder, along with an extra bit of air, so that there is no water in the
                hose and valve for which to leak forth. Wow that's a crappy sentence. ;)

                -Derek


                >It sound's like you have some material in the mouth piece interfering
                >with the seal. Ask them about how you disassemble it and clean it. MSR
                >bite valves do the same thing.
                >Jerry
                >
                >
                > <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> http://www.BackpackGearTest.org :
                >the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: Jennifer Joy [mailto:jjoy@...]
                >Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:54 PM
                >To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [BackpackGearTest] RE: for HSSC hydration folks (and others :)
                >
                >
                >
                >Ok, this is where being on the digest bites (ha). It's so hard to
                >reply to a message.
                >
                >Yes, bite valve, a better name, I'm short on sleep and all I
                >could come up with was mouthpiece which brought back weird
                >memories of high school band!
                >
                >> Can you explain how the mouthpiece functions? I have only ever used a
                >> bite valve.
                >
                >It's a bite valve that looks like a fish with big lips. You
                >bite on the fish lips sideways (if it was a fish it would be be
                <snip>
              • Derek Jones
                *raises hand for having that problem* Tim be the Mod. -Derek
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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                  *raises hand for having that problem*
                  Tim be the Mod.

                  -Derek


                  >> In my case, if you are wearing the bag with the tube
                  >> dangling it pees all over your leg in short order. I
                  >> thought perhaps it was designed to be closed after every
                  >> use, but maybe it is not. Should I ask the company?
                  >
                  >Yes, I think you should, but let's follow the process. Can we have a show
                  >of hands: How many of the testers are having this problem?
                  >
                  >The Test Moderator should contact HSSC. Who IS the Test Mod on this one?
                  >
                  >Shane
                  >Acting List Moderator
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Shane Steinkamp
                  ... Yes, I think you should, but let s follow the process. Can we have a show of hands: How many of the testers are having this problem? The Test Moderator
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 1, 2003
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                    > In my case, if you are wearing the bag with the tube
                    > dangling it pees all over your leg in short order. I
                    > thought perhaps it was designed to be closed after every
                    > use, but maybe it is not. Should I ask the company?

                    Yes, I think you should, but let's follow the process. Can we have a show
                    of hands: How many of the testers are having this problem?

                    The Test Moderator should contact HSSC. Who IS the Test Mod on this one?

                    Shane
                    Acting List Moderator
                  • tcoug7
                    ... Close... ;) Actually, Tom Jones is the Moderator. I m the Monitor. Tim
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 2, 2003
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                      --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Jones" <nafai@n...>
                      wrote:
                      > *raises hand for having that problem*
                      > Tim be the Mod.


                      Close... ;)

                      Actually, Tom Jones is the Moderator. I'm the Monitor.

                      Tim
                    • Derek Jones
                      Your *both* M words. :P Derek
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 2, 2003
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                        Your *both* "M" words. :P

                        Derek

                        >--- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Jones" <nafai@n...>
                        >wrote:
                        >> *raises hand for having that problem*
                        >> Tim be the Mod.
                        >
                        >
                        >Close... ;)
                        >
                        >Actually, Tom Jones is the Moderator. I'm the Monitor.
                        >
                        >Tim
                      • Josh Dunning
                        ... a show ... Me, I thought I was the only one... J
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 4, 2003
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                          --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp"
                          <shane@t...> wrote:
                          > > In my case, if you are wearing the bag with the tube
                          > > dangling it pees all over your leg in short order. I
                          > > thought perhaps it was designed to be closed after every
                          > > use, but maybe it is not. Should I ask the company?
                          >
                          > Yes, I think you should, but let's follow the process. Can we have
                          a show
                          > of hands: How many of the testers are having this problem?
                          >

                          Me, I thought I was the only one...

                          J
                        • Cora
                          ... tube ... My bite valve leaks too. When the valve is left open, the entire bladder drains in about 3 hours (wet pants within a minute); closed, my pants
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 4, 2003
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                            > --- In BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com, "Shane
                            > Steinkamp" <shane@t...> wrote:
                            >> In my case, if you are wearing the bag with the
                            tube
                            >> dangling it pees all over your leg in short order.


                            > Yes, I think you should, but let's follow the
                            > process. Can we have a show
                            > of hands: How many of the testers are having this
                            > problem?

                            My bite valve leaks too. When the valve is left open,
                            the entire bladder drains in about 3 hours (wet pants
                            within a minute); closed, my pants are still decently
                            wet in about 10 minutes. This, of course, depends on
                            it being stuffed in the pack to put pressure on the
                            bladder. When only lying on the table, my open bite
                            valve loses about 2-3 oz per hour, and closed valve
                            loss is nil.

                            I find I can give myself 5-20 minutes of non-leak time
                            by carefully blowing air back up the hose to clear it
                            out after drinking.

                            Plus, the hose-bladder connection has been becoming
                            unscrewed in my pack, and it leaks there too, much to
                            the dismay of me who likes dry warm clothes. :( I am
                            probably the only one with that problem, however,
                            since I tend to be more abus- er,... demanding of my
                            water bladders, and it is probably my usage and not
                            the design.

                            -Cora

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                          • Shane Steinkamp
                            ... Well, then that s everyone. Has the Mod contacted HSSC? Shane Acting List Moderator
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 4, 2003
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                              > My bite valve leaks too.

                              Well, then that's everyone. Has the Mod contacted HSSC?

                              Shane
                              Acting List Moderator
                            • Jennifer Joy
                              Cora, you are not alone! I had my tube come unscrewed at the main body as well. It was really hard to get it to screw back in securely. I had to completely
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 5, 2003
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                                Cora, you are not alone! I had my tube come unscrewed at
                                the main body as well. It was really hard to get it to
                                screw back in securely. I had to completely remove the
                                bag/tube/etc. to get a good purchase on it.

                                I am impressed you actually measured how much it leaked
                                (when it's over 95 all I could think was, my water, my
                                water, where are you going without me, and I performed no
                                quantifiable test).

                                I also had some leak which seemed to be at the bite valve
                                connection, but it would only pool a couple of drops over
                                30 minutes and didn't seem to do much other than soak upwards
                                along the black tube cover (depending on orientation).

                                Jen
                                (oh gosh no, I don't think I want 'fish lips' as a trail
                                name :-) however I don't have one ... neither do I want 'leaky'!)
                                I seem to be rather nickname resilient.
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