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A question

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  • sli74@hotmail.com
    I am new here and I have been just lurking for a while and I don t know how all this necessarily works but I have a naive question. Jerry, would there be any
    Message 1 of 18 , May 27, 2001
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      I am new here and I have been just lurking for a while and I don't
      know how all this necessarily works but I have a naive question.
      Jerry, would there be any way for this group to test boots,especially
      women's boots? I have bought a half a dozen boots in the past 3-4
      years and am having a lot of trouble finding a comfortable backpacking
      boot that fits narrow feet and tiny ankles while providing ankle
      support and arch support. After much research the most frequent
      recommendation I have received is the Lowa Scout Lady but they are
      $200 and I don't want to blindly spend that much money, so if anyone
      has any advice on boots or if somehow Jerry could get Lowa to allow a
      couple of people to test their women's boots specifically, I would
      appreciate the gear reviews for women's boots. Thanks for you advice
      and I just want to say that the gear reviews here are great, they
      really help me see what is out there.

      Seema :)
    • GearTester
      I m just starting to look for women s clothes to review. I ve thought about boots for both men and women but it is such a subjective thing I m not sure we
      Message 2 of 18 , May 27, 2001
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        I'm just starting to look for women's clothes to review. I've thought about
        boots for both men and women but it is such a subjective thing I'm not sure
        we could get meaningful reviews on them.
        Jerry
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <sli74@...>
        To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 11:37 AM
        Subject: [BackpackGearTest] A question


        After much research the most frequent recommendation I have received is the
        Lowa Scout Lady but they are $200 and I don't want to blindly spend that
        much money, so if anyone has any advice on boots or if somehow Jerry could
        get Lowa to allow a couple of people to test their women's boots
        specifically, I would appreciate the gear reviews for women's boots. >
        Seema :)
      • Justin V.
        ... thought about ... not sure ... Actually, footwear would be a great thing to review. Instead of boots, try trail running shoes. Most of the shoe companies
        Message 3 of 18 , May 28, 2001
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          > I'm just starting to look for women's clothes to review. I've
          thought about
          > boots for both men and women but it is such a subjective thing I'm
          not sure
          > we could get meaningful reviews on them.
          > Jerry

          Actually, footwear would be a great thing to review. Instead of
          boots, try trail running shoes. Most of the shoe companies don't seem
          to have a clue about how to make good trail shoes. All I want is a
          lightweight shoe that is well cushioned with excellent traction and
          waterproof. That combination doesn't seem to exist. The running shoe
          companies don't know a thing about traction and the boot companies
          don't seem to know a think about cushioning.

          I am surprised at the number of shoes out there with bad construction.
          Seams in the center of the heel are still common and they cause
          blistors. I've seen a number of shoes that are using very abrasive
          thread that also cause blistors. Many use durable polyurethane
          mid-soles instead of better cushioned EVA foam.
        • Ryan Jordan
          ... There are plenty that meet this criteria. Your problem may be fit. Try clima-dry shoes from Salomon, GTX lined shoes from Montrail. Both are reasonably
          Message 4 of 18 , May 28, 2001
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            > All I want is a
            > lightweight shoe that is well cushioned with excellent traction and
            > waterproof.

            There are plenty that meet this criteria. Your problem may be fit. Try
            clima-dry shoes from Salomon, GTX lined shoes from Montrail. Both are
            reasonably light and have great rubber.

            > The running shoe
            > companies don't know a thing about traction

            Check out Salomon's shoes. They use a very sticky rubber that is
            surprisingly nice when wet. Both Salomon and Montrail shoes (e.g., Vitesse)
            have a nice lug pattern, well, at least as nice as you're going to expect in
            a light shoe.

            > and the boot companies
            > don't seem to know a think about cushioning.

            You can't built a cushioning shoe without sacrificing durability. Bootmakers
            build to be durable. Some lightweight fabric boots on the market are very
            well-cushioned.

            > I am surprised at the number of shoes out there with bad construction.
            > Seams in the center of the heel are still common and they cause
            > blisters.

            You can build a more supportive heel cup with a heel seam, though. Bad heel
            cup fit causes blisters.

            > Many use durable polyurethane
            > mid-soles instead of better cushioned EVA foam.

            Talk to any ultra runner or distance hiker that's pushing long days and
            you'll know why. EVA breaks down and becomes worthless after repeated
            compression. PU provides the necessary longitudinal support for the long
            haul.

            If you want cushioning, take advantage of the fat pad in your heel and use
            an orthotic heel cup like that found in superfeet.

            I say don't bother pursuing a review on footwear. If you're going to take
            your footwear seriously, you need to have it fitted by someone who knows
            what they're doing (these folks are few and far between, unfortunately),
            which is obviously beyond the scope of this list. It would be totally unfair
            to the manufacturers to review footwear and then criticize it because it
            didn't feel good.

            Ryan (Big Sky Ry)
          • Sonjia Leyva
            Once upon a time shoes were made specifically for an individual. I m pretty sure one can still do this, but for the rest of us mere mortals, the trial and
            Message 5 of 18 , May 29, 2001
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              Once upon a time shoes were made specifically for an individual.

              I'm pretty sure one can still do this, but for the rest of us mere
              mortals, the trial and error method rules.

              I have a narrow heal but wide width at the toes. Makes buying any
              shoe interesting. I like Vasque, Danner and Zamberlan. Merrells are
              good, too. All provide good ankle support (I'm always tweaking mine)
              and are fairly comfortable.

              Go to a store like REI and try on EVERY boot. For the ones that fit
              well, walk around the store in them for a half an hour. Climb up and
              down stairs (if available) and chairs, kneel, crawl, try on backpacks
              - whatever. Remember, if they're not comfortable in the store, they
              won't be comfortable on the trail. Regardless of the cost

              Also, decide on what type of boot you want. Lightweight boots are
              generally more comfortable than full-grain leather heavy duty ones.
              If you're only going on day hikes, short backpacks and no
              bushwacking/boulder hopping, a lighter weight boot may work better.
              I know someone who only hikes in sneakers.

              Finally, don't use cost as an intial determining factor. The highest
              price boot may not be the best for you, nor will the cheapest be the
              worst. Decide on a price range you can live with (mine is about $100
              to $150) and go from there.

              You might want to check out Backpacker Magazine's Gear Reviews:
              http://www.backpacker.com/gear/footwear/0,3425,,00.html or their
              GearFinder: http://www.gearfinder.com/

              Sonjia
            • sli74@hotmail.com
              Thank you. I actually get Backpacker, so I will refer to that again, I am just frustrated because I do go to the store and try on boots and walk around in
              Message 6 of 18 , May 29, 2001
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                Thank you. I actually get Backpacker, so I will refer to that again,
                I am just frustrated because I do go to the store and try on boots and
                walk around in them but the problem always arises during that first
                hike . . .

                Anyway, thanks again.

                Seema :)


                --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "Sonjia Leyva" <sonjialeyva@n...> wrote:
                > Once upon a time shoes were made specifically for an individual.
                >
                > I'm pretty sure one can still do this, but for the rest of us mere
                > mortals, the trial and error method rules.
                >
                > I have a narrow heal but wide width at the toes. Makes buying any
                > shoe interesting. I like Vasque, Danner and Zamberlan. Merrells
                are
                > good, too. All provide good ankle support (I'm always tweaking
                mine)
                > and are fairly comfortable.
                >
                > Go to a store like REI and try on EVERY boot. For the ones that fit
                > well, walk around the store in them for a half an hour. Climb up
                and
                > down stairs (if available) and chairs, kneel, crawl, try on
                backpacks
                > - whatever. Remember, if they're not comfortable in the store, they
                > won't be comfortable on the trail. Regardless of the cost
                >
                > Also, decide on what type of boot you want. Lightweight boots are
                > generally more comfortable than full-grain leather heavy duty ones.

                > If you're only going on day hikes, short backpacks and no
                > bushwacking/boulder hopping, a lighter weight boot may work better.
                > I know someone who only hikes in sneakers.
                >
                > Finally, don't use cost as an intial determining factor. The
                highest
                > price boot may not be the best for you, nor will the cheapest be the
                > worst. Decide on a price range you can live with (mine is about
                $100
                > to $150) and go from there.
                >
                > You might want to check out Backpacker Magazine's Gear Reviews:
                > http://www.backpacker.com/gear/footwear/0,3425,,00.html or their
                > GearFinder: http://www.gearfinder.com/
                >
                > Sonjia
              • Sonjia Leyva
                Seema, Try wearing two pairs of socks (if you re not already) - a liner pair and a regular hiking pair. I bring both my thickest and thinest pairs. That way
                Message 7 of 18 , May 29, 2001
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                  Seema,

                  Try wearing two pairs of socks (if you're not already) - a liner pair
                  and a regular hiking pair. I bring both my thickest and thinest
                  pairs. That way I know that it will work.

                  Sonjia
                • GearTester
                  Or just hike in sandals ........ =o) Jerry ... From: Sonjia Leyva To: Sent: Tuesday, May 29,
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 29, 2001
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                    Or just hike in sandals ........ =o)
                    Jerry
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Sonjia Leyva" <sonjialeyva@...>
                    To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 12:54 PM
                    Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question


                    > Seema,
                    >
                    > Try wearing two pairs of socks (if you're not already) - a liner pair
                    > and a regular hiking pair. I bring both my thickest and thinest
                    > pairs. That way I know that it will work.
                    >
                    > Sonjia
                  • richard.dreher@jacobs.com
                    Jerry, I sorta tried hiking in sandals last weekend. Had to cross a creek that was too high to rock-hop, so I switched from boots to my Merrill sandals. Waded
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 29, 2001
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                      Jerry,

                      I sorta tried hiking in sandals last weekend. Had to cross a creek
                      that was too high to rock-hop, so I switched from boots to my Merrill
                      sandals. Waded across (brrrrr, snowmelt) and just kept hiking. Did
                      some steep uphill, snow fields and cross country, all while carrying
                      a 30-lb pack (and using poles). They worked better than I would ever
                      have expected. Don't know that I would ever make the switch, but it's
                      nice to know you can if you need to.

                      --Rick


                      --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                      > Or just hike in sandals ........ =o)
                      > Jerry
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Sonjia Leyva" <sonjialeyva@n...>
                      > To: <BackpackGearTest@y...>
                      > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 12:54 PM
                      > Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question
                      >
                      >
                      > > Seema,
                      > >
                      > > Try wearing two pairs of socks (if you're not already) - a liner
                      pair
                      > > and a regular hiking pair. I bring both my thickest and thinest
                      > > pairs. That way I know that it will work.
                      > >
                      > > Sonjia
                    • GearTester
                      I did 800 or so miles on the AT in Merrell Convertible sandals and loved them. Socks (Bridgedale Sandal Socks seem to work well) with or with out SealSkins or
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 29, 2001
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                        I did 800 or so miles on the AT in Merrell Convertible sandals and loved
                        them. Socks (Bridgedale Sandal Socks seem to work well) with or with out
                        SealSkins or small trash bags can solve the cold problem The only
                        modification I made was to glue Spenco Hiker inserts on them for a little
                        extra cushion and instep support. I hate to admit that I was carrying 35+
                        pounds.....ah, the ignorance of youth.....=o)
                        Jerry
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <richard.dreher@...>
                        To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:42 PM
                        Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question


                        > Jerry,
                        >
                        > I sorta tried hiking in sandals last weekend. Had to cross a creek
                        > that was too high to rock-hop, so I switched from boots to my Merrill
                        > sandals. Waded across (brrrrr, snowmelt) and just kept hiking. Did
                        > some steep uphill, snow fields and cross country, all while carrying
                        > a 30-lb pack (and using poles). They worked better than I would ever
                        > have expected. Don't know that I would ever make the switch, but it's
                        > nice to know you can if you need to.
                        >
                        > --Rick
                      • Patrick Miller
                        Sandals will work. I have done sections of the AT as well as the PCT in sandals (several different pairs - Teva, Nike, Merrell, Salomon). I became a sandal
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 30, 2001
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                          Sandals will work.

                          I have done sections of the AT as well as the PCT in sandals (several
                          different pairs - Teva, Nike, Merrell, Salomon). I became a sandal
                          fanatic after blowing through several pairs of sneakers while
                          canoeing. The sneakers/shoes never seem to last but a few trips
                          before they begin to breakdown and fall apart. So, I tried a pair of
                          Tevas and found that they were perfect for the job, except the velcro
                          kept coming loose in fast moving water. This prompted me to look for
                          sandals with straps that lock (as well as a little more padding
                          around the heel - rocks can be very unforgiving). This proved much
                          harder than I first assumed.

                          Finding a pair of sandals with locking straps was the hard part. It
                          seems every sandal maker wants to rely on velcro without any way to
                          lock it in place. After about 10 years of this, I still have the
                          same problem. I can't seem to find a good sandal, with locking
                          straps, a quality footbed, and decent padding (that can handle the
                          water and hiking abuse). I can usually go about 2-3 years before the
                          sandals blow out - but I have never had an easy time finding a good
                          pair.

                          I have found that since most sandals have no solid "shank" like
                          boots, they do flex and bend more than most boots (and even shoes)
                          do. This was much more uncomfortable on long hikes with a full pack
                          over roots or rocks (like those on the rutted AT). Also, I like the
                          sandals with a deep footbed and an open toe. I had too many
                          rocks/twigs/etc get into the sandals, and it is much harder to get
                          them out if the toe is closed. Yes, you will get more stuff in the
                          sandal, but it is *much* easier to get debris out if the toe is open
                          (closed toes usually require you to take the sandal off to get the
                          offending item out, not fun to do 100 times with a pack on). I
                          haven't had any major toe catastrophes yet (knock on wood).

                          I currently hike in a pair of Salomon Habanas (though they aren't
                          really my favorite)...

                          Anyone else out there a sandal-hiker?
                          PM

                          "No such thing as bad weather, just bad gear"
                          -The Weigh

                          --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                          > I did 800 or so miles on the AT in Merrell Convertible sandals and
                          loved
                          > them. Socks (Bridgedale Sandal Socks seem to work well) with or
                          with out
                          > SealSkins or small trash bags can solve the cold problem The only
                          > modification I made was to glue Spenco Hiker inserts on them for a
                          little
                          > extra cushion and instep support. I hate to admit that I was
                          carrying 35+
                          > pounds.....ah, the ignorance of youth.....=o)
                          > Jerry
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: <richard.dreher@j...>
                          > To: <BackpackGearTest@y...>
                          > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:42 PM
                          > Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question
                          >
                          >
                          > > Jerry,
                          > >
                          > > I sorta tried hiking in sandals last weekend. Had to cross a creek
                          > > that was too high to rock-hop, so I switched from boots to my
                          Merrill
                          > > sandals. Waded across (brrrrr, snowmelt) and just kept hiking. Did
                          > > some steep uphill, snow fields and cross country, all while
                          carrying
                          > > a 30-lb pack (and using poles). They worked better than I would
                          ever
                          > > have expected. Don't know that I would ever make the switch, but
                          it's
                          > > nice to know you can if you need to.
                          > >
                          > > --Rick
                        • GearTester
                          I m looking seriously at the new Chaco Z1s with the Walkabout Sole. Jerry ... From: Patrick Miller To:
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 30, 2001
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                            I'm looking seriously at the new Chaco Z1s with the Walkabout Sole.
                            Jerry
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Patrick Miller" <five.of.three@...>
                            To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:30 AM
                            Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question


                            > I currently hike in a pair of Salomon Habanas (though they aren't
                            > really my favorite)...
                            >
                            > Anyone else out there a sandal-hiker?
                            > PM
                          • Sonjia Leyva
                            ... I have been known to hike in sandals, but it depends on the location and length of the hike. I mostly use my Tevas for fairly short day hikes,
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 30, 2001
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                              <snip!>
                              > Anyone else out there a sandal-hiker?
                              > PM

                              I have been known to hike in sandals, but it depends on the location
                              and length of the hike. I mostly use my Tevas for fairly short day
                              hikes, often near the coast. The best was at Oregon Dunes National
                              Recreation Area (the non-vehicle side).

                              I share the same concerns/gripes as you regarding sandals while
                              hiking. My Tevas are often TOO flexible for rugged terrain. There's
                              a pair of sandals I've got my eyes on at REI. I'll do a comparison
                              when I finally get them.

                              Sonjia
                            • Marge Prothman
                              Jerry, Wanted to fill you in on the Black Diamond Hiking Pole.(On Sale at REI) I ordered this from REI and it came okay, but there was only one pole not a
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 31, 2001
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                                Jerry,
                                Wanted to fill you in on the Black Diamond Hiking Pole.(On Sale at REI)
                                I ordered this from REI and it came okay, but there was only one pole not a
                                pair.
                                I phoned REI and she said this was a misconception several people had (the
                                picture showed a pair).
                                I was able to close and open the clamps quite easily (no problem there)
                                However the weight of the one pole was much heavier than my old, old ski
                                pole (yellow snow pokers from the 80s, they were not a big seller at that
                                time) So I returned the pole to REI and will wait until a lighter pole maybe
                                titanium, comes out with the same open and closing system - it was very easy
                                to use.

                                Cheers, Marge the old gal.
                              • sli74@hotmail.com
                                The problem with sandals for me is that I need ankle support, my body weighs too much for my tiny tiny ankles so my ankles twist. so the sandals are out unless
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 31, 2001
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                                  The problem with sandals for me is that I need ankle support, my body
                                  weighs too much for my tiny tiny ankles so my ankles twist. so the
                                  sandals are out unless it is flat terrain, I do carry my tevas for the
                                  camp and flatter area so as to give my feet a break from the boots.

                                  Seema


                                  --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                                  > Or just hike in sandals ........ =o)
                                  > Jerry
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Sonjia Leyva" <sonjialeyva@n...>
                                  > To: <BackpackGearTest@y...>
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 12:54 PM
                                  > Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > Seema,
                                  > >
                                  > > Try wearing two pairs of socks (if you're not already) - a liner
                                  pair
                                  > > and a regular hiking pair. I bring both my thickest and thinest
                                  > > pairs. That way I know that it will work.
                                  > >
                                  > > Sonjia
                                • GearTester
                                  The only boots I ve ever seen that actually provided any ankle support were combat boots. They come up to about 6 above the ankle and do provide ankle support
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 31, 2001
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                                    The only boots I've ever seen that actually provided any ankle support were
                                    combat boots. They come up to about 6" above the ankle and do provide ankle
                                    support for jumping out of airplanes, off tanks, out of trees, and all the
                                    other weird stuff we did. All other boots I've seen in the last 30 years or
                                    so stopped just below to just above the ankle. I've never felt I received
                                    any ankle support from any of them. But that is just my opinion.
                                    Jerry
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: <sli74@...>
                                    To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:18 PM
                                    Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question


                                    > The problem with sandals for me is that I need ankle support, my body
                                    > weighs too much for my tiny tiny ankles so my ankles twist. so the
                                    > sandals are out unless it is flat terrain, I do carry my tevas for the
                                    > camp and flatter area so as to give my feet a break from the boots.
                                    >
                                    > Seema
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In BackpackGearTest@y..., "GearTester" <geartester@q...> wrote:
                                    > > Or just hike in sandals ........ =o)
                                    > > Jerry
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: "Sonjia Leyva" <sonjialeyva@n...>
                                    > > To: <BackpackGearTest@y...>
                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 12:54 PM
                                    > > Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Re: A question
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > Seema,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Try wearing two pairs of socks (if you're not already) - a liner
                                    > pair
                                    > > > and a regular hiking pair. I bring both my thickest and thinest
                                    > > > pairs. That way I know that it will work.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Sonjia
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Christine Kudija
                                    Seema wrote:
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 28, 2001
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                                      Seema wrote: << so if anyone
                                      has any advice on boots or if somehow Jerry could get Lowa to allow a
                                      couple of people to test their women's boots specifically, I would
                                      appreciate the gear reviews for women's boots.>>
                                       
                                      Seema, I've been catching up on a month's worth of e-mail & found your request to Jerry (re: boots to fit women, 'specially those of us with narrow feet & tiny ankles!).  FWIW, my feet take a women's 7 in street shoes, anything from 7 to 8 in running shoes, & 7.5 in my current hiking boots.  My heels are narrow, toes are wide, feet are generally bony, have high arches, and bony spurs on the insteps (I love my feet...I doidoidoido).  My current boots (which work for all around backpacking & mountaineering in the Sierra Nevada, California) are Zamberlan Civettas, gore-tex lined.  they required almost no break-in, and have worked well for me for 3 years.  I also use custom orthotics & Spenco liners to take up some of the room in the boots.  They work with crampons & over-the-boot gaiters, too, but aren't the intimidating "big-mountain" stiff boot that takes forever (plus big feet) to break in. 
                                       
                                      Hope this helps!  I'm writing this at a bit of a late hour, so if I'm incoherent, feel free to contact me off list at cmkudija@....  Good luck!
                                       
                                      Christine
                                    • Amy Friends Stone
                                      ... I have similar feet, it sounds like (no spurs, though I have a bunion)... I have the Lowa Renegades and the Lowa Lady Lights and I love them! Also no
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 29, 2001
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                                        >Seema wrote: << so if anyone
                                        >has any advice on boots or if somehow Jerry could get Lowa to allow a
                                        >couple of people to test their women's boots specifically, I would
                                        >appreciate the gear reviews for women's boots.>>
                                        >
                                        >Seema, I've been catching up on a month's worth of e-mail & found your
                                        >request to Jerry (re: boots to fit women, 'specially those of us with
                                        >narrow feet & tiny ankles!). FWIW, my feet take a women's 7 in street
                                        >shoes, anything from 7 to 8 in running shoes, & 7.5 in my current hiking
                                        >boots. My heels are narrow, toes are wide, feet are generally bony, have
                                        >high arches, and bony spurs on the insteps (I love my feet...I
                                        >doidoidoido). My current boots (which work for all around backpacking &
                                        >mountaineering in the Sierra Nevada, California) are Zamberlan Civettas,
                                        >gore-tex lined. they required almost no break-in, and have worked well for
                                        >me for 3 years. I also use custom orthotics & Spenco liners to take up
                                        >some of the room in the boots. They work with crampons & over-the-boot
                                        >gaiters, too, but aren't the intimidating "big-mountain" stiff boot that
                                        >takes forever (plus big feet) to break in.
                                        >
                                        >Hope this helps! I'm writing this at a bit of a late hour, so if I'm
                                        >incoherent, feel free to contact me off list at cmkudija@....
                                        >Good luck!

                                        I have similar feet, it sounds like (no spurs, though I have a bunion)... I
                                        have the Lowa Renegades and the Lowa Lady Lights and I love them! Also no
                                        break in time, fit me perfectly from the time I tried them on.

                                        Sandpiper

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