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  • Chief Moderator
    If problems continue, Shane, please take to to the Help list. Thanks. Jerry Who is going to do everything possible to reduce unnecessary (before it comes up, I
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 30, 2002
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      If problems continue, Shane, please take to to the Help list. Thanks.
      Jerry
      Who is going to do everything possible to reduce unnecessary (before it
      comes up, I get to define unnecessary) traffic on this list.



      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
      the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Shane Steinkamp [mailto:shane@...]
      Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:49 PM
      To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [BackpackGearTest] new site upload problem:


      Make sure the extension on your files is the proper case. HTML is case
      sensitive, and I remember in the Web group that some had trouble when
      the
      file extensions were changed from .JPG to .jpg or something like that...

      Shane

      > I tried to upload one of my older reviews o the new site and get the
      > following page:
      >
      > ERROR: File [IMG00003_small.jpg] is not uploaded.



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • SGT Rock
      Here is my owner review of the new Brasslite stoves: Price: $55 (Either stove model) Weight (manufacturer): 1.2oz (Duo) 1.1oz (Solo) Weight (tested): Duo = 2.1
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 31, 2002
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        Here is my owner review of the new Brasslite stoves:

        Price: $55 (Either stove model)
        Weight (manufacturer): 1.2oz (Duo) 1.1oz (Solo)
        Weight (tested):
        Duo = 2.1 (with measuring bottle, simmer ring, and windscreen per
        instructions)
        Solo = 1.9 (with measuring bottle, simmer ring, and windscreen per
        instructions) <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg>
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg> Brasslite Solo - even
        smaller! <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg>
        Fuel type: Alcohol
        Capacity:
        Duo = 1.75 ounces (52 ml)
        Solo = 1 ounce (30 ml)
        URL: Brasslite <http://www.brasslite.com/>
        The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#design#design>
        Design
        The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#test#test> Test
        The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#eval#eval>
        Evaluation
        _____

        Design:
        The Brasslite stoves are pressurized alcohol stoves. There are some
        homemade versions of pressurized stoves out there you can build, but
        they are made from aluminum soda cans. These stoves have a loyal
        following, but a few long distance hikers have told me they didn't last
        for them past about 500 miles (although a few have reported longer
        lasting stoves). Besides that they are more difficult to make than non-
        pressurized alcohol stoves because they require precise burner hole
        sizes, attention to detail using certain glues, and a lot more time
        invested in building one.
        The Brasslite stoves solve all the problems inherent in building a soda
        can pressurized alcohol stove. First thing is you buy it - there isn't
        any learning curve in how to build it because that has been done for
        you. Aaron Rosenbloom (the inventor/builder) has instruction on his
        site and invites you to use them to make one yourself, but after
        reading what goes into one, you will most likely decide it's worth the
        $55. As a stove builder, I see this stove as a piece of functional art.
        The next problem Brasslite solves is that they are made of brass and
        steel - it solves the other problem which is durability. Unless you hit
        it with a heavy rock or use it to pound in tent pegs, this stove should
        last forever.
        Let me discuss the details of the design of the Brasslite stoves.
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg>
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg> Brasslite Duo
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg>
        First think is the stove has a main fuel chamber and priming cup made
        of brass. On top of the fuel chamber is the filler hole that uses a
        thumb screw as a filler cap that is simple to use and doesn't require
        you to tighten it for the stove to work - but it must be in place or
        the stove will not develop pressure to work correctly. Around the thumb
        screw are small holes that serve as burner jets. The priming cup is at
        the base and requires a small amount of alcohol to heat the inner fuel
        chamber and begin creating the pressure required of the stove.
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg>
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg> Brasslite Duo with
        simmer ring in place <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg>
        On top of this is a metal pot stand similar to the ones I use on the
        Turbo V8. the main difference is I use galvanized steel hardware cloth,
        the Brasslite has stainless steel mesh. It is very stable for pots up
        to 1.5 liters and has a small slot in it for inserting the simmer
        attachment. The simmer attachment is a small flat disk that closes off
        most of the burner holes while still allowing some to fire. With 12 ml
        of alcohol I could simmer for about 7-8 minutes.
        The stove comes with the simmer attachment, a set of instructions, and
        a 1 ounce (30 ml) fuel bottle. To judge a better how much I wanted to
        use, I added measurement marks to the side of the bottle in 6 ml
        increments. These instructions include safety warnings, some notes
        about the stove, and instructions on building the windscreen and heat
        reflector from simple aluminum foil. While it is easy to make the
        windscreen, it ended up weighing as much as one made from an oven
        liner, but is slightly less durable. I would recommend making one from
        an oven liner to the size Aaron specifies in his instructions.
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg>
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg> Filling the Brasslite
        Duo with the supplied filler bottle
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg>
        When filling the stove, I found it a good idea to start with the
        priming cup first so you can get exactly the amount you want there,
        then add the rest to the fuel chamber. Some fuel will spill out on the
        top of the stove when you do this, but that is nothing to worry about.
        If you get too much fuel on the prime, it will start off like a jet,
        and if you get too little, it will go out before the stove lights all
        the way.
        top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
        _____

        The Test
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1005.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
        net/images/020829/1005.jpg> Test setup
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1005.jpg>
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg>
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg> Cooking on the
        Brasslite Duo <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg>



        O.K. now for the numbers.
        Weight: Duo = 1.3 ounce stove (with simmer ring), 0.5 ounces
        windscreen, 0.3 ounce filling bottle, 1 ounce for 20 ounce fuel bottle.
        Total = 3.1 ounces.
        Solo = 1.2 ounce stove (with simmer ring), 0.4 ounces windscreen, 0.3
        ounce filling bottle, 1 ounce for 20 ounce fuel bottle. Total = 2.9
        ounces.
        Tests
        Standards:
        1. 2 cups of water at room temperature - 75 degrees.
        2. Pot used is a Snow Peak 720ml titanium pot with lid.
        3. Stove used the windscreen per instructions given with stove.
        4. Alcohol was tested in 6 ml increments, starting at 6 ml
        alcohol. Priming fuel came from the measured amount.
        5. Each amount was double checked using a scale. The weight of
        one fluid ounce of alcohol is .82 avoirdupois ounces.
        6. Each Test was repeated three times, the average was used.
        7. Starting time was when the stove was lit.
        8. Stoves were allowed to completely cool between tests.
        9. Barometric pressure here was 30.15, the boiling point was
        determined to be 212.43 degrees.
        10. Altitude is 90 meters above sea level.
        11. For temperature readings, a Thermocouple was used hooked to a
        digital multimeter.
        12. Air temperature was 75 degrees with the stove fan running to
        simulate a light wind.
        13. Scale used was a Royal EX3.
        Duo Performance:

        Temperature
        6 ml fuel
        12 ml fuel
        18 ml fuel
        24 ml fuel
        30 ml fuel

        150 degrees
        n/a
        270 seconds
        190 seconds
        185 seconds
        175 seconds

        175 degrees
        n/a
        n/a
        275 seconds
        250 seconds
        220 seconds

        200 degrees
        n/a
        n/a
        355 seconds
        330 seconds
        280 seconds

        Max heat
        134˚
        164.5˚
        212.5˚
        212.5˚
        212.5˚

        Time to max heat
        215 seconds
        320 seconds
        400 seconds
        350 seconds
        305 seconds

        Time above 175 degrees
        n/a
        n/a
        205 seconds
        255 seconds
        380 seconds

        Burn out time
        215 seconds
        330 seconds
        480 seconds
        505 seconds
        600 seconds

        Avoirdupois ounces (weight)
        .16 ounces
        .32 ounces
        .49 ounces
        .65 ounces
        .83 ounce
        Solo Performance:

        Temperature
        6 ml fuel
        12 ml fuel
        18 ml fuel
        24 ml fuel
        30 ml fuel

        150 degrees
        n/a
        215 sec
        210 sec
        190 sec
        180 sec

        175 degrees
        n/a
        285 sec
        270 sec
        240 sec
        230 sec

        200 degrees
        n/a
        n/a
        310 sec
        290 sec
        280 sec

        Max heat
        138.5˚
        195˚
        212.5˚
        212.5˚
        212.5˚

        Time to max heat
        215 sec
        345 sec
        350 sec
        330 sec
        320 sec

        Time above 175 degrees
        n/a
        60 sec
        85 sec
        190 sec
        280 sec

        Burn out time
        220 sec
        345 sec
        355 sec
        430 sec
        510 sec

        Avoirdupois ounces (weight)
        .16 ounces
        .32 ounces
        .49 ounces
        .65 ounces
        .83 ounce
        Some conclusions based on these tests.
        1. Normally I use non-pressurized alcohol stoves. These stoves rely on
        lots of air flow and the fuel achieving a boil to vaporize better.
        These stoves operate well with fuel levels below 18 ml because they
        rely on simple air + fuel = flame. Nothing fancy. They are easy to make
        and don't require much durability in the materials.
        2. The Brasslite stoves are pressurized systems. The fuel heats up
        inside the chamber creating pressure and jets the fuel out like a
        pressurized gas stove. The more fuel, the greater the starting
        pressure; the less fuel, the worse the starting pressure. The pressure
        is a great way to enhance performance but requires sturdier material.
        There are some soda can models of alcohol stoves that do pressurize,
        but they do not last because the aluminum cannot survive sustained heat
        and pressure they create.
        3. Because a non-pressurized stove only needs fuel and air - a small
        amount of fuel (like 6 or 12 ml) can cook efficiently for heating water
        to minimum cooking temps (175 degrees) and actually achieves
        temperatures faster at lower fuel amounts because there is less
        pressure to counteract the fuel boiling at lower amounts.
        4. Because a pressurized stove needs pressure, lower fuel amounts (12
        ml and below) perform poorly because the fail to create pressure. Both
        pressurized and non-pressurized stoves seem to have a middle
        performance level where they equal out - 18 ml. Following up that
        thought, the Brasslite stoves perform exceptionally well at fuel
        amounts above 18 ml.
        5. Selection between the two stove philosophies depends on some
        factors. If you want to go very weight economical and heat water to
        just 175 degrees, then maybe a homemade stove is what you want. But if
        you want to get a really hot boil going on, and maybe are using a pot
        and cooking meals that are bigger than 1 pint - then a Brasslite Duo
        would be a great choice. It's light, heats great, and works better the
        more fuel you add. To verify this I put a pot with 1 liter of water
        over the Duo using 36 ml of alcohol. It achieved true boil and kept
        going for quite a while.
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1007.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
        net/images/020829/1007.jpg> The solo at full speed <http://www.hikinghq
        net/images/020829/1007.jpg> 6. The Brasslite Solo is designed to
        improve on the pressurized stove design for better fuel efficiency for
        solo hikers by reducing burn chamber size, thus increasing pressure at
        lower fuel amounts. Because it is smaller - it is a little lighter, but
        because it is smaller it is a lot more efficient at lower fuel amounts
        and can achieve the higher temperatures the non-pressurized stoves
        achieve at fuel levels of 6 and 12 ml.
        top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
        _____

        Using my time Hiking vs. Weight scenario here are the numbers:
        Red = Worst performer
        Yellow = #3 Performer
        Blue = #2 performer
        Green = Best performer
        **Note. For purposes of this illustration I am considering my fuel
        bottle a 20 ounce soda bottle. The example shows making two hot meals a
        day.

        14 Day Hike
        Brasslite Duo Stove Weight:
        Trangia Westwind
        Brasslite Solo Stove Weight:
        MSR Pocket Rocket Weight:

        Hiking Day
        1.0 ounces fuel a day
        1.0 ounces fuel a day
        1.0 ounces fuel a day
        .6 ounces fuel a day

        Day 1
        16.6
        23.6
        16.4
        15.9 ounces

        Day 2
        15.6
        22.6
        15.4
        15.3 ounces

        Day 3
        14.6
        21.6
        14.4
        14.7 ounces

        Day 4
        13.6
        20.6
        13.4
        14.1 ounces

        Day 5
        12.6
        19.6
        12.4
        13.5 ounces

        Day 6
        11.6
        18.6
        11.4
        12.9 ounces

        Day 7
        10.6
        17.6
        10.4
        12.3 ounces

        Day 8
        9.6
        16.6
        9.4
        11.7 ounces

        Day 9
        8.6
        15.6
        8.4
        11.1 ounces

        Day 10
        7.6
        14.6
        7.4
        10.5 ounces

        Day 11
        6.6
        13.6
        6.4
        9.9 ounces

        Day 12
        5.6
        12.6
        5.4
        9.3 ounces

        Day 13
        4.6
        11.6
        4.4
        8.7 ounces

        Day 14 (fuel for one meal left)
        3.6
        10.6
        3.4
        8.1 ounces

        Base (out of fuel)
        3.1
        10.1
        2.9
        7.9 ounces

        Total Weight over 14 days
        141.4
        239.4 ounces
        138.6
        158.0 ounces
        The Duo and the Solo are both lighter over time than a MSR Pocket
        Rocket over the same period. And if you set a re-supply system that is
        even shorter than 14 days, you can achieve very, very low overall
        weight over time. The main choice in deciding is weather you plan to go
        solo or as a pair. If you go as a pair, then the Duo is the right
        choice. If your solo - well use the Solo.
        Comparing both the Solo and Duo to the other manufactured alcohol stove
        out there (the Trangia) they beat it hands down in weight over time.
        top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
        _____

        Trail Test
        The real test is using the stove on the trail and seeing if the stove
        is too complicated, fragile, or if there are any other problems that
        would make it a pain to use on a day to day basis. Admittedly I didn't
        get to test this stove on a real trail, but I did get to put it through
        some of the toughest field conditions possible - a JRTC training
        rotation at Fort Polk, LA.
        I did not get to use this stove every single day, but I did get to use
        it regularly. When I did it performed like a champ. The Brasslite Duo
        was always consistent in regards to boil times and fuel usage. With the
        windscreen it did well even in light breezes but required a little
        extra wind break in higher winds.
        One thing that should be mentioned is that there is a little extra set
        up time involved in using this stove that I don't see with some other
        alcohol stoves. With the Brasslite you must pour fuel from your bottle
        into the filler bottle, then put fuel into the stove. It takes a few
        extra seconds but isn't a show stopper.
        The only concern I had was the soot seems to build up on the top of the
        stove. If you notice the picture from the manufacturer and my pictures
        (taken after MANY uses) the shiny stove is almost black. My concern is
        that over time the burner holes MAY become clogged, but time will tell.
        Honestly I believe the pressure the stove creates while in use will
        keep the holes blown clean, but just in case it might be wise to have a
        small piece of metal wire the would weigh almost nothing to clean the
        holes with in the event of a clog. A trick I tried that worked was a
        sewing needle from my repair kit which worked, but I'm afraid the
        larger diameter needle may accidentally enlarge the burner holes over
        time which would alter stove performance.
        top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
        _____

        Conclusion
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg>
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg> Brasslite Duo with the
        simmer ring while lit <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg>
        The stove weak point in my opinion is the simmer. While I've seen some
        homemade stoves that can simmer 10-15 minutes on a 6 ml of alcohol, the
        Brasslite simmer isn't adjustable and may get about 7-8 minutes off the
        same fuel. It runs at a very hot simmer (about 175 degrees) - and any
        attempt I made to reduce the heat put the stove out. To carry that
        further, I don't recommend simmering with alcohol stoves anyway - a pot
        cozy is more efficient weight and fuel wise. So if I were using the
        stove, I would leave the simmer ring behind anyway.
        Would I recommend this stove? Well yes I would. It is slightly higher
        in price than some other manufactured stove, but the weight and quality
        is great. For a person that doesn't want to screw around with making a
        stove, wants a quality made stove, and wants a durable stove, the
        Brasslite is just right. Personally I'm happy building my own stoves
        and can live with the less durable soda can models, but not everyone
        wants to do that. I will say that I am very tempted to ditch my Turbo
        V8 stove for the Brasslite Solo.
        So if you are going to get one, the big decision is which one - after
        all they both cost the same.
        If you are planning to do most of your hiking with a partner, then the
        size and performance of the Duo, especially when full or close to full
        is vastly better than my homemade stoves when trying to use fuel
        amounts higher than 18 ml and makes it MUCH BETTER suited to hiking
        with a partner. It will heat a 1.5 liter pot with 48 ml of fuel just
        fine where most other alcohol stoves could not.
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1008.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
        net/images/020829/1008.jpg> Cooking with the Solo
        <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1008.jpg> If you plan to hike
        solo, then the Solo stove is a better choice. It's smaller burn chamber
        allows maximum efficiency at lower fuel amounts like 12 ml where a solo
        hiker can cook almost any meal without needing a true 212.5˚ boil. Yet
        it still has the ability to cook at higher temperatures like the Duo if
        needed.
        My recommendations:
        If you buy either of these stoves, I would recommend a) making a
        windscreen from an oven liner, b) ditching the simmer plate and making
        a pot cozy,
        And for the Duo:
        c) keeping your pot size about 1 to 1.5 liters and always using 18 ml
        alcohol or more.
        And for the Solo:
        c) keeping your pot size about a liter or less and always using 12 - 24
        ml alcohol.


        Ernest Engman
        AKA SGT Rock
        sgtrock@...
        http://hikinghq.net



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • SGT Rock
        OK, that didn t come out like planned. Ernest Engman AKA SGT Rock sgtrock@hikinghq.net http://hikinghq.net ... From: SGT Rock [mailto:sgtrock@hikinghq.net]
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 31, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          OK, that didn't come out like planned.

          Ernest Engman
          AKA SGT Rock
          sgtrock@...
          http://hikinghq.net



          -----Original Message-----
          From: SGT Rock [mailto:sgtrock@...]
          Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:13 AM
          To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Brasslite Stove Owner Review

          Here is my owner review of the new Brasslite stoves:

          Price: $55 (Either stove model)
          Weight (manufacturer): 1.2oz (Duo) 1.1oz (Solo)
          Weight (tested):
          Duo = 2.1 (with measuring bottle, simmer ring, and windscreen per
          instructions)
          Solo = 1.9 (with measuring bottle, simmer ring, and windscreen per
          instructions) <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg>
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg> Brasslite Solo - even
          smaller! <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg>
          Fuel type: Alcohol
          Capacity:
          Duo = 1.75 ounces (52 ml)
          Solo = 1 ounce (30 ml)
          URL: Brasslite <http://www.brasslite.com/>
          The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#design#design>
          Design
          The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#test#test> Test
          The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#eval#eval>
          Evaluation
          _____

          Design:
          The Brasslite stoves are pressurized alcohol stoves. There are some
          homemade versions of pressurized stoves out there you can build, but
          they are made from aluminum soda cans. These stoves have a loyal
          following, but a few long distance hikers have told me they didn't last
          for them past about 500 miles (although a few have reported longer
          lasting stoves). Besides that they are more difficult to make than non-
          pressurized alcohol stoves because they require precise burner hole
          sizes, attention to detail using certain glues, and a lot more time
          invested in building one.
          The Brasslite stoves solve all the problems inherent in building a soda
          can pressurized alcohol stove. First thing is you buy it - there isn't
          any learning curve in how to build it because that has been done for
          you. Aaron Rosenbloom (the inventor/builder) has instruction on his
          site and invites you to use them to make one yourself, but after
          reading what goes into one, you will most likely decide it's worth the
          $55. As a stove builder, I see this stove as a piece of functional art.
          The next problem Brasslite solves is that they are made of brass and
          steel - it solves the other problem which is durability. Unless you hit
          it with a heavy rock or use it to pound in tent pegs, this stove should
          last forever.
          Let me discuss the details of the design of the Brasslite stoves.
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg>
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg> Brasslite Duo
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg>
          First think is the stove has a main fuel chamber and priming cup made
          of brass. On top of the fuel chamber is the filler hole that uses a
          thumb screw as a filler cap that is simple to use and doesn't require
          you to tighten it for the stove to work - but it must be in place or
          the stove will not develop pressure to work correctly. Around the thumb
          screw are small holes that serve as burner jets. The priming cup is at
          the base and requires a small amount of alcohol to heat the inner fuel
          chamber and begin creating the pressure required of the stove.
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg>
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg> Brasslite Duo with
          simmer ring in place <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg>
          On top of this is a metal pot stand similar to the ones I use on the
          Turbo V8. the main difference is I use galvanized steel hardware cloth,
          the Brasslite has stainless steel mesh. It is very stable for pots up
          to 1.5 liters and has a small slot in it for inserting the simmer
          attachment. The simmer attachment is a small flat disk that closes off
          most of the burner holes while still allowing some to fire. With 12 ml
          of alcohol I could simmer for about 7-8 minutes.
          The stove comes with the simmer attachment, a set of instructions, and
          a 1 ounce (30 ml) fuel bottle. To judge a better how much I wanted to
          use, I added measurement marks to the side of the bottle in 6 ml
          increments. These instructions include safety warnings, some notes
          about the stove, and instructions on building the windscreen and heat
          reflector from simple aluminum foil. While it is easy to make the
          windscreen, it ended up weighing as much as one made from an oven
          liner, but is slightly less durable. I would recommend making one from
          an oven liner to the size Aaron specifies in his instructions.
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg>
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg> Filling the Brasslite
          Duo with the supplied filler bottle
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg>
          When filling the stove, I found it a good idea to start with the
          priming cup first so you can get exactly the amount you want there,
          then add the rest to the fuel chamber. Some fuel will spill out on the
          top of the stove when you do this, but that is nothing to worry about.
          If you get too much fuel on the prime, it will start off like a jet,
          and if you get too little, it will go out before the stove lights all
          the way.
          top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
          _____

          The Test
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1005.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
          net/images/020829/1005.jpg> Test setup
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1005.jpg>
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg>
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg> Cooking on the
          Brasslite Duo <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg>



          O.K. now for the numbers.
          Weight: Duo = 1.3 ounce stove (with simmer ring), 0.5 ounces
          windscreen, 0.3 ounce filling bottle, 1 ounce for 20 ounce fuel bottle.
          Total = 3.1 ounces.
          Solo = 1.2 ounce stove (with simmer ring), 0.4 ounces windscreen, 0.3
          ounce filling bottle, 1 ounce for 20 ounce fuel bottle. Total = 2.9
          ounces.
          Tests
          Standards:
          1. 2 cups of water at room temperature - 75 degrees.
          2. Pot used is a Snow Peak 720ml titanium pot with lid.
          3. Stove used the windscreen per instructions given with stove.
          4. Alcohol was tested in 6 ml increments, starting at 6 ml
          alcohol. Priming fuel came from the measured amount.
          5. Each amount was double checked using a scale. The weight of
          one fluid ounce of alcohol is .82 avoirdupois ounces.
          6. Each Test was repeated three times, the average was used.
          7. Starting time was when the stove was lit.
          8. Stoves were allowed to completely cool between tests.
          9. Barometric pressure here was 30.15, the boiling point was
          determined to be 212.43 degrees.
          10. Altitude is 90 meters above sea level.
          11. For temperature readings, a Thermocouple was used hooked to a
          digital multimeter.
          12. Air temperature was 75 degrees with the stove fan running to
          simulate a light wind.
          13. Scale used was a Royal EX3.
          Duo Performance:

          Temperature
          6 ml fuel
          12 ml fuel
          18 ml fuel
          24 ml fuel
          30 ml fuel

          150 degrees
          n/a
          270 seconds
          190 seconds
          185 seconds
          175 seconds

          175 degrees
          n/a
          n/a
          275 seconds
          250 seconds
          220 seconds

          200 degrees
          n/a
          n/a
          355 seconds
          330 seconds
          280 seconds

          Max heat
          134˚
          164.5˚
          212.5˚
          212.5˚
          212.5˚

          Time to max heat
          215 seconds
          320 seconds
          400 seconds
          350 seconds
          305 seconds

          Time above 175 degrees
          n/a
          n/a
          205 seconds
          255 seconds
          380 seconds

          Burn out time
          215 seconds
          330 seconds
          480 seconds
          505 seconds
          600 seconds

          Avoirdupois ounces (weight)
          .16 ounces
          .32 ounces
          .49 ounces
          .65 ounces
          .83 ounce
          Solo Performance:

          Temperature
          6 ml fuel
          12 ml fuel
          18 ml fuel
          24 ml fuel
          30 ml fuel

          150 degrees
          n/a
          215 sec
          210 sec
          190 sec
          180 sec

          175 degrees
          n/a
          285 sec
          270 sec
          240 sec
          230 sec

          200 degrees
          n/a
          n/a
          310 sec
          290 sec
          280 sec

          Max heat
          138.5˚
          195˚
          212.5˚
          212.5˚
          212.5˚

          Time to max heat
          215 sec
          345 sec
          350 sec
          330 sec
          320 sec

          Time above 175 degrees
          n/a
          60 sec
          85 sec
          190 sec
          280 sec

          Burn out time
          220 sec
          345 sec
          355 sec
          430 sec
          510 sec

          Avoirdupois ounces (weight)
          .16 ounces
          .32 ounces
          .49 ounces
          .65 ounces
          .83 ounce
          Some conclusions based on these tests.
          1. Normally I use non-pressurized alcohol stoves. These stoves rely on
          lots of air flow and the fuel achieving a boil to vaporize better.
          These stoves operate well with fuel levels below 18 ml because they
          rely on simple air + fuel = flame. Nothing fancy. They are easy to make
          and don't require much durability in the materials.
          2. The Brasslite stoves are pressurized systems. The fuel heats up
          inside the chamber creating pressure and jets the fuel out like a
          pressurized gas stove. The more fuel, the greater the starting
          pressure; the less fuel, the worse the starting pressure. The pressure
          is a great way to enhance performance but requires sturdier material.
          There are some soda can models of alcohol stoves that do pressurize,
          but they do not last because the aluminum cannot survive sustained heat
          and pressure they create.
          3. Because a non-pressurized stove only needs fuel and air - a small
          amount of fuel (like 6 or 12 ml) can cook efficiently for heating water
          to minimum cooking temps (175 degrees) and actually achieves
          temperatures faster at lower fuel amounts because there is less
          pressure to counteract the fuel boiling at lower amounts.
          4. Because a pressurized stove needs pressure, lower fuel amounts (12
          ml and below) perform poorly because the fail to create pressure. Both
          pressurized and non-pressurized stoves seem to have a middle
          performance level where they equal out - 18 ml. Following up that
          thought, the Brasslite stoves perform exceptionally well at fuel
          amounts above 18 ml.
          5. Selection between the two stove philosophies depends on some
          factors. If you want to go very weight economical and heat water to
          just 175 degrees, then maybe a homemade stove is what you want. But if
          you want to get a really hot boil going on, and maybe are using a pot
          and cooking meals that are bigger than 1 pint - then a Brasslite Duo
          would be a great choice. It's light, heats great, and works better the
          more fuel you add. To verify this I put a pot with 1 liter of water
          over the Duo using 36 ml of alcohol. It achieved true boil and kept
          going for quite a while.
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1007.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
          net/images/020829/1007.jpg> The solo at full speed <http://www.hikinghq
          net/images/020829/1007.jpg> 6. The Brasslite Solo is designed to
          improve on the pressurized stove design for better fuel efficiency for
          solo hikers by reducing burn chamber size, thus increasing pressure at
          lower fuel amounts. Because it is smaller - it is a little lighter, but
          because it is smaller it is a lot more efficient at lower fuel amounts
          and can achieve the higher temperatures the non-pressurized stoves
          achieve at fuel levels of 6 and 12 ml.
          top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
          _____

          Using my time Hiking vs. Weight scenario here are the numbers:
          Red = Worst performer
          Yellow = #3 Performer
          Blue = #2 performer
          Green = Best performer
          **Note. For purposes of this illustration I am considering my fuel
          bottle a 20 ounce soda bottle. The example shows making two hot meals a
          day.

          14 Day Hike
          Brasslite Duo Stove Weight:
          Trangia Westwind
          Brasslite Solo Stove Weight:
          MSR Pocket Rocket Weight:

          Hiking Day
          1.0 ounces fuel a day
          1.0 ounces fuel a day
          1.0 ounces fuel a day
          .6 ounces fuel a day

          Day 1
          16.6
          23.6
          16.4
          15.9 ounces

          Day 2
          15.6
          22.6
          15.4
          15.3 ounces

          Day 3
          14.6
          21.6
          14.4
          14.7 ounces

          Day 4
          13.6
          20.6
          13.4
          14.1 ounces

          Day 5
          12.6
          19.6
          12.4
          13.5 ounces

          Day 6
          11.6
          18.6
          11.4
          12.9 ounces

          Day 7
          10.6
          17.6
          10.4
          12.3 ounces

          Day 8
          9.6
          16.6
          9.4
          11.7 ounces

          Day 9
          8.6
          15.6
          8.4
          11.1 ounces

          Day 10
          7.6
          14.6
          7.4
          10.5 ounces

          Day 11
          6.6
          13.6
          6.4
          9.9 ounces

          Day 12
          5.6
          12.6
          5.4
          9.3 ounces

          Day 13
          4.6
          11.6
          4.4
          8.7 ounces

          Day 14 (fuel for one meal left)
          3.6
          10.6
          3.4
          8.1 ounces

          Base (out of fuel)
          3.1
          10.1
          2.9
          7.9 ounces

          Total Weight over 14 days
          141.4
          239.4 ounces
          138.6
          158.0 ounces
          The Duo and the Solo are both lighter over time than a MSR Pocket
          Rocket over the same period. And if you set a re-supply system that is
          even shorter than 14 days, you can achieve very, very low overall
          weight over time. The main choice in deciding is weather you plan to go
          solo or as a pair. If you go as a pair, then the Duo is the right
          choice. If your solo - well use the Solo.
          Comparing both the Solo and Duo to the other manufactured alcohol stove
          out there (the Trangia) they beat it hands down in weight over time.
          top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
          _____

          Trail Test
          The real test is using the stove on the trail and seeing if the stove
          is too complicated, fragile, or if there are any other problems that
          would make it a pain to use on a day to day basis. Admittedly I didn't
          get to test this stove on a real trail, but I did get to put it through
          some of the toughest field conditions possible - a JRTC training
          rotation at Fort Polk, LA.
          I did not get to use this stove every single day, but I did get to use
          it regularly. When I did it performed like a champ. The Brasslite Duo
          was always consistent in regards to boil times and fuel usage. With the
          windscreen it did well even in light breezes but required a little
          extra wind break in higher winds.
          One thing that should be mentioned is that there is a little extra set
          up time involved in using this stove that I don't see with some other
          alcohol stoves. With the Brasslite you must pour fuel from your bottle
          into the filler bottle, then put fuel into the stove. It takes a few
          extra seconds but isn't a show stopper.
          The only concern I had was the soot seems to build up on the top of the
          stove. If you notice the picture from the manufacturer and my pictures
          (taken after MANY uses) the shiny stove is almost black. My concern is
          that over time the burner holes MAY become clogged, but time will tell.
          Honestly I believe the pressure the stove creates while in use will
          keep the holes blown clean, but just in case it might be wise to have a
          small piece of metal wire the would weigh almost nothing to clean the
          holes with in the event of a clog. A trick I tried that worked was a
          sewing needle from my repair kit which worked, but I'm afraid the
          larger diameter needle may accidentally enlarge the burner holes over
          time which would alter stove performance.
          top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
          _____

          Conclusion
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg>
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg> Brasslite Duo with the
          simmer ring while lit <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg>
          The stove weak point in my opinion is the simmer. While I've seen some
          homemade stoves that can simmer 10-15 minutes on a 6 ml of alcohol, the
          Brasslite simmer isn't adjustable and may get about 7-8 minutes off the
          same fuel. It runs at a very hot simmer (about 175 degrees) - and any
          attempt I made to reduce the heat put the stove out. To carry that
          further, I don't recommend simmering with alcohol stoves anyway - a pot
          cozy is more efficient weight and fuel wise. So if I were using the
          stove, I would leave the simmer ring behind anyway.
          Would I recommend this stove? Well yes I would. It is slightly higher
          in price than some other manufactured stove, but the weight and quality
          is great. For a person that doesn't want to screw around with making a
          stove, wants a quality made stove, and wants a durable stove, the
          Brasslite is just right. Personally I'm happy building my own stoves
          and can live with the less durable soda can models, but not everyone
          wants to do that. I will say that I am very tempted to ditch my Turbo
          V8 stove for the Brasslite Solo.
          So if you are going to get one, the big decision is which one - after
          all they both cost the same.
          If you are planning to do most of your hiking with a partner, then the
          size and performance of the Duo, especially when full or close to full
          is vastly better than my homemade stoves when trying to use fuel
          amounts higher than 18 ml and makes it MUCH BETTER suited to hiking
          with a partner. It will heat a 1.5 liter pot with 48 ml of fuel just
          fine where most other alcohol stoves could not.
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1008.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
          net/images/020829/1008.jpg> Cooking with the Solo
          <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1008.jpg> If you plan to hike
          solo, then the Solo stove is a better choice. It's smaller burn chamber
          allows maximum efficiency at lower fuel amounts like 12 ml where a solo
          hiker can cook almost any meal without needing a true 212.5˚ boil. Yet
          it still has the ability to cook at higher temperatures like the Duo if
          needed.
          My recommendations:
          If you buy either of these stoves, I would recommend a) making a
          windscreen from an oven liner, b) ditching the simmer plate and making
          a pot cozy,
          And for the Duo:
          c) keeping your pot size about 1 to 1.5 liters and always using 18 ml
          alcohol or more.
          And for the Solo:
          c) keeping your pot size about a liter or less and always using 12 - 24
          ml alcohol.


          Ernest Engman
          AKA SGT Rock
          sgtrock@...
          http://hikinghq.net



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • Bill Bradshaw
          Since I am looking at moving from my MSR Dragonfly to an alcohol stove I appreciated your report. I do have some questions though. 1. Can you adjust the
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 31, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Since I am looking at moving from my MSR Dragonfly to an alcohol stove I
            appreciated your report. I do have some questions though.

            1. Can you adjust the simmer ring while the alcohol stove is burning?


            2. What kind of alcohol where you using?


            3. What is a pot cozy?


            4. How black did your pot get from the stove flame?


            5. Could you clean the stove with Brasso? Being a Sergeant maybe you
            could assign this duty to one of your Privates.


            Thanks,

            <Bill>

            Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska.
            N 53�� 51.140' W 166�� 30.228' (WGS 84)

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "SGT Rock" <sgtrock@...>
            To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 7:12 AM
            Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Brasslite Stove Owner Review


            Here is my owner review of the new Brasslite stoves:
          • SGT Rock
            1. The simmer ring is not adjustable - it is a weakness of the design but one I could care less about since I use pot cozys. 2. I was using denatured alcohol.
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 31, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              1. The simmer ring is not adjustable - it is a weakness of the design
              but one I could care less about since I use pot cozys.

              2. I was using denatured alcohol.

              3. A pot cozy is an insulated cover for a pot to retain heat. Since a
              cozy retains the heat, it does the same thing simmering would do without
              needing fuel. There are some other advantages besides that.

              4. My pot is already fairly black. I don't care if my pot gets black.

              If I were to clean it I would likely use Never Dull, it's easier to use
              and less messy than Brasso.

              Ernest Engman
              AKA SGT Rock
              sgtrock@...
              http://hikinghq.net


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Bill Bradshaw [mailto:bradshaw@...]
              Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 1:53 PM
              To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Brasslite Stove Owner Review

              Since I am looking at moving from my MSR Dragonfly to an alcohol stove I
              appreciated your report. I do have some questions though.

              1. Can you adjust the simmer ring while the alcohol stove is burning?


              2. What kind of alcohol where you using?


              3. What is a pot cozy?


              4. How black did your pot get from the stove flame?


              5. Could you clean the stove with Brasso? Being a Sergeant maybe you
              could assign this duty to one of your Privates.


              Thanks,

              <Bill>

              Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska.
              N 53¡Æ 51.140' W 166¡Æ 30.228' (WGS 84)

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "SGT Rock" <sgtrock@...>
              To: <BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 7:12 AM
              Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Brasslite Stove Owner Review


              Here is my owner review of the new Brasslite stoves:





              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              BackpackGearTest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • SGT Rock
              How do I get a folder created for this owner review? Ernest Engman AKA SGT Rock sgtrock@hikinghq.net http://hikinghq.net ... From: SGT Rock
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 3, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                How do I get a folder created for this owner review?

                Ernest Engman
                AKA SGT Rock
                sgtrock@...
                http://hikinghq.net



                -----Original Message-----
                From: SGT Rock [mailto:sgtrock@...]
                Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:13 AM
                To: BackpackGearTest@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [BackpackGearTest] Brasslite Stove Owner Review

                Here is my owner review of the new Brasslite stoves:

                Price: $55 (Either stove model)
                Weight (manufacturer): 1.2oz (Duo) 1.1oz (Solo)
                Weight (tested):
                Duo = 2.1 (with measuring bottle, simmer ring, and windscreen per
                instructions)
                Solo = 1.9 (with measuring bottle, simmer ring, and windscreen per
                instructions) <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg>
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg> Brasslite Solo - even
                smaller! <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1003.jpg>
                Fuel type: Alcohol
                Capacity:
                Duo = 1.75 ounces (52 ml)
                Solo = 1 ounce (30 ml)
                URL: Brasslite <http://www.brasslite.com/>
                The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#design#design>
                Design
                The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#test#test> Test
                The <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#eval#eval>
                Evaluation
                _____

                Design:
                The Brasslite stoves are pressurized alcohol stoves. There are some
                homemade versions of pressurized stoves out there you can build, but
                they are made from aluminum soda cans. These stoves have a loyal
                following, but a few long distance hikers have told me they didn't last
                for them past about 500 miles (although a few have reported longer
                lasting stoves). Besides that they are more difficult to make than non-
                pressurized alcohol stoves because they require precise burner hole
                sizes, attention to detail using certain glues, and a lot more time
                invested in building one.
                The Brasslite stoves solve all the problems inherent in building a soda
                can pressurized alcohol stove. First thing is you buy it - there isn't
                any learning curve in how to build it because that has been done for
                you. Aaron Rosenbloom (the inventor/builder) has instruction on his
                site and invites you to use them to make one yourself, but after
                reading what goes into one, you will most likely decide it's worth the
                $55. As a stove builder, I see this stove as a piece of functional art.
                The next problem Brasslite solves is that they are made of brass and
                steel - it solves the other problem which is durability. Unless you hit
                it with a heavy rock or use it to pound in tent pegs, this stove should
                last forever.
                Let me discuss the details of the design of the Brasslite stoves.
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg>
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg> Brasslite Duo
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/004.jpg>
                First think is the stove has a main fuel chamber and priming cup made
                of brass. On top of the fuel chamber is the filler hole that uses a
                thumb screw as a filler cap that is simple to use and doesn't require
                you to tighten it for the stove to work - but it must be in place or
                the stove will not develop pressure to work correctly. Around the thumb
                screw are small holes that serve as burner jets. The priming cup is at
                the base and requires a small amount of alcohol to heat the inner fuel
                chamber and begin creating the pressure required of the stove.
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg>
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg> Brasslite Duo with
                simmer ring in place <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/002.jpg>
                On top of this is a metal pot stand similar to the ones I use on the
                Turbo V8. the main difference is I use galvanized steel hardware cloth,
                the Brasslite has stainless steel mesh. It is very stable for pots up
                to 1.5 liters and has a small slot in it for inserting the simmer
                attachment. The simmer attachment is a small flat disk that closes off
                most of the burner holes while still allowing some to fire. With 12 ml
                of alcohol I could simmer for about 7-8 minutes.
                The stove comes with the simmer attachment, a set of instructions, and
                a 1 ounce (30 ml) fuel bottle. To judge a better how much I wanted to
                use, I added measurement marks to the side of the bottle in 6 ml
                increments. These instructions include safety warnings, some notes
                about the stove, and instructions on building the windscreen and heat
                reflector from simple aluminum foil. While it is easy to make the
                windscreen, it ended up weighing as much as one made from an oven
                liner, but is slightly less durable. I would recommend making one from
                an oven liner to the size Aaron specifies in his instructions.
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg>
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg> Filling the Brasslite
                Duo with the supplied filler bottle
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/003.jpg>
                When filling the stove, I found it a good idea to start with the
                priming cup first so you can get exactly the amount you want there,
                then add the rest to the fuel chamber. Some fuel will spill out on the
                top of the stove when you do this, but that is nothing to worry about.
                If you get too much fuel on the prime, it will start off like a jet,
                and if you get too little, it will go out before the stove lights all
                the way.
                top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
                _____

                The Test
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1005.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
                net/images/020829/1005.jpg> Test setup
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1005.jpg>
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg>
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg> Cooking on the
                Brasslite Duo <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/008.jpg>



                O.K. now for the numbers.
                Weight: Duo = 1.3 ounce stove (with simmer ring), 0.5 ounces
                windscreen, 0.3 ounce filling bottle, 1 ounce for 20 ounce fuel bottle.
                Total = 3.1 ounces.
                Solo = 1.2 ounce stove (with simmer ring), 0.4 ounces windscreen, 0.3
                ounce filling bottle, 1 ounce for 20 ounce fuel bottle. Total = 2.9
                ounces.
                Tests
                Standards:
                1. 2 cups of water at room temperature - 75 degrees.
                2. Pot used is a Snow Peak 720ml titanium pot with lid.
                3. Stove used the windscreen per instructions given with stove.
                4. Alcohol was tested in 6 ml increments, starting at 6 ml
                alcohol. Priming fuel came from the measured amount.
                5. Each amount was double checked using a scale. The weight of
                one fluid ounce of alcohol is .82 avoirdupois ounces.
                6. Each Test was repeated three times, the average was used.
                7. Starting time was when the stove was lit.
                8. Stoves were allowed to completely cool between tests.
                9. Barometric pressure here was 30.15, the boiling point was
                determined to be 212.43 degrees.
                10. Altitude is 90 meters above sea level.
                11. For temperature readings, a Thermocouple was used hooked to a
                digital multimeter.
                12. Air temperature was 75 degrees with the stove fan running to
                simulate a light wind.
                13. Scale used was a Royal EX3.
                Duo Performance:

                Temperature
                6 ml fuel
                12 ml fuel
                18 ml fuel
                24 ml fuel
                30 ml fuel

                150 degrees
                n/a
                270 seconds
                190 seconds
                185 seconds
                175 seconds

                175 degrees
                n/a
                n/a
                275 seconds
                250 seconds
                220 seconds

                200 degrees
                n/a
                n/a
                355 seconds
                330 seconds
                280 seconds

                Max heat
                134˚
                164.5˚
                212.5˚
                212.5˚
                212.5˚

                Time to max heat
                215 seconds
                320 seconds
                400 seconds
                350 seconds
                305 seconds

                Time above 175 degrees
                n/a
                n/a
                205 seconds
                255 seconds
                380 seconds

                Burn out time
                215 seconds
                330 seconds
                480 seconds
                505 seconds
                600 seconds

                Avoirdupois ounces (weight)
                .16 ounces
                .32 ounces
                .49 ounces
                .65 ounces
                .83 ounce
                Solo Performance:

                Temperature
                6 ml fuel
                12 ml fuel
                18 ml fuel
                24 ml fuel
                30 ml fuel

                150 degrees
                n/a
                215 sec
                210 sec
                190 sec
                180 sec

                175 degrees
                n/a
                285 sec
                270 sec
                240 sec
                230 sec

                200 degrees
                n/a
                n/a
                310 sec
                290 sec
                280 sec

                Max heat
                138.5˚
                195˚
                212.5˚
                212.5˚
                212.5˚

                Time to max heat
                215 sec
                345 sec
                350 sec
                330 sec
                320 sec

                Time above 175 degrees
                n/a
                60 sec
                85 sec
                190 sec
                280 sec

                Burn out time
                220 sec
                345 sec
                355 sec
                430 sec
                510 sec

                Avoirdupois ounces (weight)
                .16 ounces
                .32 ounces
                .49 ounces
                .65 ounces
                .83 ounce
                Some conclusions based on these tests.
                1. Normally I use non-pressurized alcohol stoves. These stoves rely on
                lots of air flow and the fuel achieving a boil to vaporize better.
                These stoves operate well with fuel levels below 18 ml because they
                rely on simple air + fuel = flame. Nothing fancy. They are easy to make
                and don't require much durability in the materials.
                2. The Brasslite stoves are pressurized systems. The fuel heats up
                inside the chamber creating pressure and jets the fuel out like a
                pressurized gas stove. The more fuel, the greater the starting
                pressure; the less fuel, the worse the starting pressure. The pressure
                is a great way to enhance performance but requires sturdier material.
                There are some soda can models of alcohol stoves that do pressurize,
                but they do not last because the aluminum cannot survive sustained heat
                and pressure they create.
                3. Because a non-pressurized stove only needs fuel and air - a small
                amount of fuel (like 6 or 12 ml) can cook efficiently for heating water
                to minimum cooking temps (175 degrees) and actually achieves
                temperatures faster at lower fuel amounts because there is less
                pressure to counteract the fuel boiling at lower amounts.
                4. Because a pressurized stove needs pressure, lower fuel amounts (12
                ml and below) perform poorly because the fail to create pressure. Both
                pressurized and non-pressurized stoves seem to have a middle
                performance level where they equal out - 18 ml. Following up that
                thought, the Brasslite stoves perform exceptionally well at fuel
                amounts above 18 ml.
                5. Selection between the two stove philosophies depends on some
                factors. If you want to go very weight economical and heat water to
                just 175 degrees, then maybe a homemade stove is what you want. But if
                you want to get a really hot boil going on, and maybe are using a pot
                and cooking meals that are bigger than 1 pint - then a Brasslite Duo
                would be a great choice. It's light, heats great, and works better the
                more fuel you add. To verify this I put a pot with 1 liter of water
                over the Duo using 36 ml of alcohol. It achieved true boil and kept
                going for quite a while.
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1007.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
                net/images/020829/1007.jpg> The solo at full speed <http://www.hikinghq
                net/images/020829/1007.jpg> 6. The Brasslite Solo is designed to
                improve on the pressurized stove design for better fuel efficiency for
                solo hikers by reducing burn chamber size, thus increasing pressure at
                lower fuel amounts. Because it is smaller - it is a little lighter, but
                because it is smaller it is a lot more efficient at lower fuel amounts
                and can achieve the higher temperatures the non-pressurized stoves
                achieve at fuel levels of 6 and 12 ml.
                top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
                _____

                Using my time Hiking vs. Weight scenario here are the numbers:
                Red = Worst performer
                Yellow = #3 Performer
                Blue = #2 performer
                Green = Best performer
                **Note. For purposes of this illustration I am considering my fuel
                bottle a 20 ounce soda bottle. The example shows making two hot meals a
                day.

                14 Day Hike
                Brasslite Duo Stove Weight:
                Trangia Westwind
                Brasslite Solo Stove Weight:
                MSR Pocket Rocket Weight:

                Hiking Day
                1.0 ounces fuel a day
                1.0 ounces fuel a day
                1.0 ounces fuel a day
                .6 ounces fuel a day

                Day 1
                16.6
                23.6
                16.4
                15.9 ounces

                Day 2
                15.6
                22.6
                15.4
                15.3 ounces

                Day 3
                14.6
                21.6
                14.4
                14.7 ounces

                Day 4
                13.6
                20.6
                13.4
                14.1 ounces

                Day 5
                12.6
                19.6
                12.4
                13.5 ounces

                Day 6
                11.6
                18.6
                11.4
                12.9 ounces

                Day 7
                10.6
                17.6
                10.4
                12.3 ounces

                Day 8
                9.6
                16.6
                9.4
                11.7 ounces

                Day 9
                8.6
                15.6
                8.4
                11.1 ounces

                Day 10
                7.6
                14.6
                7.4
                10.5 ounces

                Day 11
                6.6
                13.6
                6.4
                9.9 ounces

                Day 12
                5.6
                12.6
                5.4
                9.3 ounces

                Day 13
                4.6
                11.6
                4.4
                8.7 ounces

                Day 14 (fuel for one meal left)
                3.6
                10.6
                3.4
                8.1 ounces

                Base (out of fuel)
                3.1
                10.1
                2.9
                7.9 ounces

                Total Weight over 14 days
                141.4
                239.4 ounces
                138.6
                158.0 ounces
                The Duo and the Solo are both lighter over time than a MSR Pocket
                Rocket over the same period. And if you set a re-supply system that is
                even shorter than 14 days, you can achieve very, very low overall
                weight over time. The main choice in deciding is weather you plan to go
                solo or as a pair. If you go as a pair, then the Duo is the right
                choice. If your solo - well use the Solo.
                Comparing both the Solo and Duo to the other manufactured alcohol stove
                out there (the Trangia) they beat it hands down in weight over time.
                top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
                _____

                Trail Test
                The real test is using the stove on the trail and seeing if the stove
                is too complicated, fragile, or if there are any other problems that
                would make it a pain to use on a day to day basis. Admittedly I didn't
                get to test this stove on a real trail, but I did get to put it through
                some of the toughest field conditions possible - a JRTC training
                rotation at Fort Polk, LA.
                I did not get to use this stove every single day, but I did get to use
                it regularly. When I did it performed like a champ. The Brasslite Duo
                was always consistent in regards to boil times and fuel usage. With the
                windscreen it did well even in light breezes but required a little
                extra wind break in higher winds.
                One thing that should be mentioned is that there is a little extra set
                up time involved in using this stove that I don't see with some other
                alcohol stoves. With the Brasslite you must pour fuel from your bottle
                into the filler bottle, then put fuel into the stove. It takes a few
                extra seconds but isn't a show stopper.
                The only concern I had was the soot seems to build up on the top of the
                stove. If you notice the picture from the manufacturer and my pictures
                (taken after MANY uses) the shiny stove is almost black. My concern is
                that over time the burner holes MAY become clogged, but time will tell.
                Honestly I believe the pressure the stove creates while in use will
                keep the holes blown clean, but just in case it might be wise to have a
                small piece of metal wire the would weigh almost nothing to clean the
                holes with in the event of a clog. A trick I tried that worked was a
                sewing needle from my repair kit which worked, but I'm afraid the
                larger diameter needle may accidentally enlarge the burner holes over
                time which would alter stove performance.
                top <http://www.hikinghq.net/stoves/brasslite.html#top#top>
                _____

                Conclusion
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg>
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg> Brasslite Duo with the
                simmer ring while lit <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/006.jpg>
                The stove weak point in my opinion is the simmer. While I've seen some
                homemade stoves that can simmer 10-15 minutes on a 6 ml of alcohol, the
                Brasslite simmer isn't adjustable and may get about 7-8 minutes off the
                same fuel. It runs at a very hot simmer (about 175 degrees) - and any
                attempt I made to reduce the heat put the stove out. To carry that
                further, I don't recommend simmering with alcohol stoves anyway - a pot
                cozy is more efficient weight and fuel wise. So if I were using the
                stove, I would leave the simmer ring behind anyway.
                Would I recommend this stove? Well yes I would. It is slightly higher
                in price than some other manufactured stove, but the weight and quality
                is great. For a person that doesn't want to screw around with making a
                stove, wants a quality made stove, and wants a durable stove, the
                Brasslite is just right. Personally I'm happy building my own stoves
                and can live with the less durable soda can models, but not everyone
                wants to do that. I will say that I am very tempted to ditch my Turbo
                V8 stove for the Brasslite Solo.
                So if you are going to get one, the big decision is which one - after
                all they both cost the same.
                If you are planning to do most of your hiking with a partner, then the
                size and performance of the Duo, especially when full or close to full
                is vastly better than my homemade stoves when trying to use fuel
                amounts higher than 18 ml and makes it MUCH BETTER suited to hiking
                with a partner. It will heat a 1.5 liter pot with 48 ml of fuel just
                fine where most other alcohol stoves could not.
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1008.jpg> <http://www.hikinghq
                net/images/020829/1008.jpg> Cooking with the Solo
                <http://www.hikinghq.net/images/020829/1008.jpg> If you plan to hike
                solo, then the Solo stove is a better choice. It's smaller burn chamber
                allows maximum efficiency at lower fuel amounts like 12 ml where a solo
                hiker can cook almost any meal without needing a true 212.5˚ boil. Yet
                it still has the ability to cook at higher temperatures like the Duo if
                needed.
                My recommendations:
                If you buy either of these stoves, I would recommend a) making a
                windscreen from an oven liner, b) ditching the simmer plate and making
                a pot cozy,
                And for the Duo:
                c) keeping your pot size about 1 to 1.5 liters and always using 18 ml
                alcohol or more.
                And for the Solo:
                c) keeping your pot size about a liter or less and always using 12 - 24
                ml alcohol.


                Ernest Engman
                AKA SGT Rock
                sgtrock@...
                http://hikinghq.net
              • Andrew Priest
                Hi Ernest Your owners reviews needs to be approved by a member of moderators team and then a folder created. I guess everyone has been flat out and haven t had
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 4, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Ernest

                  Your owners reviews needs to be approved by a member of moderators team and
                  then a folder created. I guess everyone has been flat out and haven't had a
                  chance to take a look at it. If you can hang in their, I will try within 24
                  hours.

                  Regards
                  Andrew

                  At 09:34 AM 04/09/2002, you wrote:
                  >How do I get a folder created for this owner review?
                  >
                  >Ernest Engman
                  >AKA SGT Rock
                  >sgtrock@...
                  ><http://hikinghq.net>http://hikinghq.net

                  --
                  Aushiker - Hiking in Western Australia - http://aushiker.com

                  Group Monitor: BackpackGearTest - http://www.backpackgeartest.org



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Helen Hillberg
                  Hi Ernest, Take a look at my suggestions - placed between {} and incorporate as you see fit. Currently you are restricted to ten photos none of which can be
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 4, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Ernest,

                    Take a look at my suggestions - placed between {} and incorporate as you see fit.

                    Currently you are restricted to ten photos none of which can be over 100k in size and must be uploaded with the report. A folder will be created in the stove section on BGT. When you're ready, please upload, and thank you for a very interesting review of a very interesting stove.

                    While you're at it can you also upload your Moonbow and A-sym, if you haven't already.

                    Helen


                    Design:
                    Besides that{,} they are more difficult to make than non-
                    pressurized alcohol stoves because they require precise burner hole
                    sizes, attention to detail using certain glues, and a lot more time
                    invested in building one.

                    First think {thing} is the stove has a main fuel chamber and priming cup made
                    of brass.
                    The stove comes with the simmer attachment, a set of instructions, and
                    a 1 ounce (30 ml) fuel bottle. To judge a better {better judge} how much I wanted to
                    use, I added measurement marks to the side of the bottle in 6 ml
                    increments.
                    When filling the stove, I found it a good idea to start with the
                    priming cup first so you can {changing pronoun here} get exactly the amount you want there,
                    then add the rest to the fuel chamber.

                    Some conclusions based on these tests.
                    2. There are some soda can models of alcohol stoves that do pressurize,
                    but they do not last because the aluminum cannot survive {the} sustained heat
                    and pressure they create.
                    4. Because a pressurized stove needs pressure, lower fuel amounts (12
                    ml and below) perform poorly because the {they} fail to create pressure.

                    **Note. For purposes of this illustration I am considering my fuel
                    bottle a 20 ounce soda bottle. The example shows {demonstrates} making two hot meals a
                    day.

                    The main choice in deciding is weather {whether} you plan to go
                    solo or as a pair. If you go as a pair, then the Duo is the right
                    choice. If your {you're} solo - well use the Solo.

                    Trail Test
                    Honestly I believe the pressure the stove creates while in use will
                    keep the holes blown clean, but just in case it might be wise to have a
                    small piece of metal wire the {that} would weigh almost nothing to clean the
                    holes with in the event of a clog. A trick I tried {,}that worked {,} was a
                    sewing needle from my repair kit which worked {repeated word 'worked'}, but I'm afraid the
                    larger diameter needle may accidentally enlarge the burner holes over
                    time which would alter stove performance.

                    Conclusion
                    The stove {stove's} weak point in my opinion is the simmer.
                    If you are planning to do most of your hiking with a partner, then the
                    size and performance of the Duo, especially when full or close to full
                    is vastly better than my homemade stoves when trying to use fuel
                    amounts higher than 18 ml and makes it MUCH BETTER suited to hiking
                    with a partner. {The previous sentence is kind of long} If you plan to hike
                    solo, then the Solo stove is a better choice. It's smaller burn chamber
                    allows maximum efficiency at lower fuel amounts like 12 ml where a solo
                    hiker can cook almost any meal without needing a true 212.5˚ boil. {Somewhat confusing sentence}


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • SGT Rock
                    Thanks. Good changes, some of which I had already caught myself. I ve uploaded the Brasslite Review and the Moonbow Gearskin Review. I have a lot of trimming
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 4, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks. Good changes, some of which I had already caught myself.

                      I've uploaded the Brasslite Review and the Moonbow Gearskin Review. I
                      have a lot of trimming to get the Hennessy Ultralight A-Sym Hammock
                      Review below 10 pictures...

                      I will do it dang it!

                      Ernest Engman
                      AKA SGT Rock
                      sgtrock@...
                      http://hikinghq.net



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Helen Hillberg [mailto:hhloth@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:37 AM
                      To: BackpackGearTest
                      Subject: Re: [BackpackGearTest] Brasslite Stove Owner Review

                      Hi Ernest,

                      Take a look at my suggestions - placed between {} and incorporate as
                      you see fit.

                      Currently you are restricted to ten photos none of which can be over
                      100k in size and must be uploaded with the report. A folder will be
                      created in the stove section on BGT. When you're ready, please upload,
                      and thank you for a very interesting review of a very interesting stove.

                      While you're at it can you also upload your Moonbow and A-sym, if you
                      haven't already.

                      Helen


                      Design:
                      Besides that{,} they are more difficult to make than non-
                      pressurized alcohol stoves because they require precise burner hole
                      sizes, attention to detail using certain glues, and a lot more time
                      invested in building one.

                      First think {thing} is the stove has a main fuel chamber and priming
                      cup made
                      of brass.
                      The stove comes with the simmer attachment, a set of instructions, and
                      a 1 ounce (30 ml) fuel bottle. To judge a better {better judge} how
                      much I wanted to
                      use, I added measurement marks to the side of the bottle in 6 ml
                      increments.
                      When filling the stove, I found it a good idea to start with the
                      priming cup first so you can {changing pronoun here} get exactly the
                      amount you want there,
                      then add the rest to the fuel chamber.

                      Some conclusions based on these tests.
                      2. There are some soda can models of alcohol stoves that do pressurize,
                      but they do not last because the aluminum cannot survive {the}
                      sustained heat
                      and pressure they create.
                      4. Because a pressurized stove needs pressure, lower fuel amounts (12
                      ml and below) perform poorly because the {they} fail to create
                      pressure.

                      **Note. For purposes of this illustration I am considering my fuel
                      bottle a 20 ounce soda bottle. The example shows {demonstrates} making
                      two hot meals a
                      day.

                      The main choice in deciding is weather {whether} you plan to go
                      solo or as a pair. If you go as a pair, then the Duo is the right
                      choice. If your {you're} solo - well use the Solo.

                      Trail Test
                      Honestly I believe the pressure the stove creates while in use will
                      keep the holes blown clean, but just in case it might be wise to have a
                      small piece of metal wire the {that} would weigh almost nothing to
                      clean the
                      holes with in the event of a clog. A trick I tried {,}that worked {,}
                      was a
                      sewing needle from my repair kit which worked {repeated word 'worked'},
                      but I'm afraid the
                      larger diameter needle may accidentally enlarge the burner holes over
                      time which would alter stove performance.

                      Conclusion
                      The stove {stove's} weak point in my opinion is the simmer.
                      If you are planning to do most of your hiking with a partner, then the
                      size and performance of the Duo, especially when full or close to full
                      is vastly better than my homemade stoves when trying to use fuel
                      amounts higher than 18 ml and makes it MUCH BETTER suited to hiking
                      with a partner. {The previous sentence is kind of long} If you plan to
                      hike
                      solo, then the Solo stove is a better choice. It's smaller burn chamber
                      allows maximum efficiency at lower fuel amounts like 12 ml where a solo
                      hiker can cook almost any meal without needing a true 212.5˚ boil.
                      {Somewhat confusing sentence}


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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