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Re: [backpackgeartest] Seychelle Test Results

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  • Robert Stanley
    ... Hi, Im not in the filter test group and have no hands on knowledge of the filter being tested, but being a Heavy Equip mechanic, and being very familiar
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 11, 2000
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      >I decided to not remove the element again as it is quite fragile when
      > wet and it is difficult to turn with hand pressure without squeezing
      > the fragile element material.


      Hi, Im not in the filter test group and have no hands on knowledge of the
      filter being tested, but being a Heavy Equip mechanic, and being very
      familiar with hydraulics and o-rings -

      I was wondering if in the Seychelle unit - the o-ring sealed directly
      against the filter "material" or if there was some sort of plastic (or other
      rigid material) used as a core to the filter element that the o-ring sealed
      against? (also the opposing end of the filter - where housing pressure is
      applied must be rigid)

      If there is no rigid core to take the pressure of a reliable o-ring seal,
      and the o-ring seats directly against (and applies pressure upon) the
      "fragile when wet" filter element, there most likely will be a seal failure
      where the 0-ring and element meet as soon as the element becomes wet and
      malable.

      For an o-ring seal to work - both sides of the unit that the o-ring seals
      against must be rigid enough (at all times) to compress the o-ring
      adequately for the pressure being applied. If at any time either side of the
      seal becomes weaker than the pressure applied a failure will result.

      If this is the situation then I would hazard a guess (and thats all it would
      be) that there is a serious design flaw...

      Again this is just a thought, maybe one of our testers could look and see
      what they think.

      Best of luck, you lucky testers!!!

      Rob Stanley
    • Mark Smythe
      Robert, The filter element is mounted to a plastic base that has a threaded protrusion that mates with the housing. The O-ring is below (above?) the threads
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 11, 2000
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        Robert, The filter element is mounted to a plastic base that has a
        threaded protrusion that mates with the housing. The O-ring is below
        (above?) the threads and above the base on the protrusion (wish I
        could draw it). Anyway it appears to be designed OK. I work in an
        industry also where O-rings are used extensively. One possibility is
        that it may be possible to overtighten the filter easily and compress
        the O-ring to failure. We'll see what Seychelle has to say. The
        design certainly depends on the user assembling the filter correcty
        the first time. I don't believe once you have it together it should
        ever be taken apart again except for element replacement and new O-
        ring.

        Mark

        --- In backpackgeartest@egroups.com, "Robert Stanley" <the-
        stanleys@h...> wrote:
        > >I decided to not remove the element again as it is quite fragile
        when
        > > wet and it is difficult to turn with hand pressure without
        squeezing
        > > the fragile element material.
        >
        >
        > Hi, Im not in the filter test group and have no hands on knowledge
        of the
        > filter being tested, but being a Heavy Equip mechanic, and being
        very
        > familiar with hydraulics and o-rings -
        >
        > I was wondering if in the Seychelle unit - the o-ring sealed
        directly
        > against the filter "material" or if there was some sort of plastic
        (or other
        > rigid material) used as a core to the filter element that the o-
        ring sealed
        > against? (also the opposing end of the filter - where housing
        pressure is
        > applied must be rigid)
        >
        > If there is no rigid core to take the pressure of a reliable o-ring
        seal,
        > and the o-ring seats directly against (and applies pressure upon)
        the
        > "fragile when wet" filter element, there most likely will be a seal
        failure
        > where the 0-ring and element meet as soon as the element becomes
        wet and
        > malable.
        >
      • Gear Tester
        ... From: Mark Smythe To: backpackgeartest@egroups.com Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 5:21 PM Subject: [backpackgeartest] Seychelle Test Results The test is
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 11, 2000
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Mark Smythe
          To: backpackgeartest@egroups.com
          Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 5:21 PM
          Subject: [backpackgeartest] Seychelle Test Results
          The test is simple. Add about 2 drops
          of dye to each cup of unfiltered water and let your filter do it's
          thing. If the water resulting on the other side is still blue you
          have a problem. I have used this test for many years with several
          types of filters which all claim to remove Gardia (at least). I
          don't know the particle size of blue dye but a good filer always
          removed the color on the output side. The Seychelle filter did not
          remove the blue color.

          This got interesting. I went to the store, bought some blue food dye, and tried this test. Sure enough, the Seychelle passed the blue water...but then so did my SafeWaterAnywhere in line filter as did my Sweetwater Guardian and my Pur Voyageur. The Pur doesn't have the carbon final filter on it as they aren't shipping the new ones yet and I round filed my old one. Could the dye provided you be something other than food coloring? Thinking about it, I would be surprised if any of them filtered out dye. That would require filtering down to molecule level, I think. Could be wrong. The reason given for the removable filter element is the replacement filter is cheaper than the entire unit.



          I also noticed after both tests that
          there was a small amount of grey or black sediment in the water that
          did not exist before. This indicates that water may have been
          leaking around the filter or the filter is for some reason
          defective.

          I had the same O ring experience you did. Fortunately, I had an old Seychelle and robbed the O ring out of it. I'm not overly concerned about the black sediment to start with. That is quite common with new filter of all types. My Pur never did stop doing that, but then that is another story...lol.



          Let me know if I've done something wrong in the dye test. The O ring worried me too.

          Jerry



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        • Gear Tester
          ... From: TrueCatLover@aol.com To: backpackgeartest@egroups.com Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [backpackgeartest] Seychelle Test Results
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 11, 2000
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: TrueCatLover@...
            To: backpackgeartest@egroups.com
            Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 6:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [backpackgeartest] Seychelle Test Results
            I had thought I was on the list to get a filter, but I haven't gotten one
            yet. I don't know if everyone already has theirs or not, but I'm wondering if
            I'm still on the tester list, because I have a trip planned for the last
            weekend in September, and I'd love to try out the filter then!
            Jennifer
            >^,,^<


            The filters were sent UPS from CA. The people on the West Coast are receiveing their filters quite abit sooner than the East Coast. Apearently, UPS tossed the boxes out in the parking lot and hoped a passing tourist picked them up and delevered them. I'll be playing in the woods until Friday. If you haven't received your filter by then I'll ask Seychelle to put a trace on them.

            Jerry




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          • Mark Smythe
            This got interesting. I went to the store, bought some blue food dye, and tried this test. Sure enough, the Seychelle passed the blue water...but then so did
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 12, 2000
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              This got interesting. I went to the store, bought some blue food dye,
              and tried this test. Sure enough, the Seychelle passed the blue
              water...but then so did my SafeWaterAnywhere in line filter as did my
              Sweetwater Guardian and my Pur Voyageur. The Pur doesn't have the
              carbon final filter on it as they aren't shipping the new ones yet
              and I round filed my old one. Could the dye provided you be something
              other than food coloring? Thinking about it, I would be surprised if
              any of them filtered out dye. That would require filtering down to
              molecule level, I think. Could be wrong. The reason given for the
              removable filter element is the replacement filter is cheaper than
              the entire unit.
              ********************************************************
              The instructions I used were for the "First Need" model from General
              Ecology. Here they are exactly:

              Canister Integrity Test Procedure: (Blue food dye included with unit)

              A simple test to assure that the canister has not been damaged
              internally, either during use, transport or backwash is to:
              1. Add a couple drops (no more) of ordinary red, green or blue food
              coloring to a glass of water.
              2. Pump this solution through the canister.
              3. The filtered water should be colorless.
              If the filtered water is still colored, even faintly, the internal
              canister matrix has most likely been damaged and the microfilter
              should not be relied upon uner this condition and must be relaced.

              They(General Ecology) seem to indicate that going to the store and
              buying these color of food dyes should have the same results as the
              food coloring supplied which is labeled food grade food coloring.
              Did you put more than 2 drops in for each 8oz of water? I have used
              this test on my First Need and on my Sweetwater Guardian and they
              take all the color out. Maybe there are different food colorings
              that have different particle sizes?? I'll check with the store
              bought coloring in my cabinet and see if there is a difference and
              let you know. Mark
              **********************************************************

              I also noticed after both tests that
              there was a small amount of grey or black sediment in the water
              that
              did not exist before. This indicates that water may have been
              leaking around the filter or the filter is for some reason
              defective.

              I had the same O ring experience you did. Fortunately, I had an old
              Seychelle and robbed the O ring out of it. I'm not overly concerned
              about the black sediment to start with. That is quite common with new
              filter of all types. My Pur never did stop doing that, but then that
              is another story...lol.


              Let me know if I've done something wrong in the dye test. The O ring
              worried me too.
              ***********************************************************

              The O-ring is a special concern with this design. Usually they won't
              get damaged like that if the design is sound and the user doesn't do
              anything dumb. Some instructions from the manufacturer might help.
              I don't have the O-ring worry with my other filters as there is no
              assembly required that could provide a "blow by" path for the water.
              Mark
            • artcloutmn@aol.com
              In a message dated 9/11/00 9:48:08 PM, the-stanleys@home.com writes:
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 12, 2000
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                In a message dated 9/11/00 9:48:08 PM, the-stanleys@... writes:

                << I was wondering if in the Seychelle unit - the o-ring sealed directly
                against the filter "material" or if there was some sort of plastic (or other
                rigid material) used as a core to the filter element that the o-ring sealed
                against? (also the opposing end of the filter - where housing pressure is
                applied must be rigid) >>

                I received a filter today. The o ring does not contact the filter
                element. It is pressed between two plastic parts of the case that contains
                the filter element. The two parts are threaded together.

                Instructions that came with the unit explain that a full water bladder's
                supply of water should pass through the filter before it should be used for
                drinking water. This should flush out any particles or discoloration. I
                have not tried this.
                It may take me a little time before I am in a possition to use the filter
                on the trail since I am recovering from knee injuries caused by my last
                backpack in the Whites. My therapist says maybe if I stay on flat trails I
                can go on a hike soon, but that's no fun. (Yes it is! It sure beats no
                hiking at all.)

                Art
              • Gear Tester
                ... From: Critical Payne To: backpackgeartest@egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [backpackgeartest] Seychelle Test Results I
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 14, 2000
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Critical Payne
                  To: backpackgeartest@egroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 7:34 AM
                  Subject: Re: [backpackgeartest] Seychelle Test Results


                  I just got my filter, and have a few first impressions. I'll start with
                  the negatives.

                  1) Documentation, or the lack thereof.

                  I assume...ah, hope...that the production units will have better documentation.

                  2) Relating back to #1, for a while I had no idea what the rubber piece
                  was for. I read the "directions" several times, and made myself feel like
                  a complete idiot because I couldn't figure out where the rubber piece was
                  supposed to go. It made no sense to me that it would go in the filter,
                  but I figured they wouldn't include the thing if it didn't serve a
                  purpose. It wasn't until I looked through their brochure and saw their
                  Tap2Pure system that I figured out that it's just a faucet hookup. One
                  that could be improved by making it a tighter fit to the filter, I might
                  add.

                  After getting a face full of water a few times, I figured out that pressing up on the backflush tool and slowly increasing water pressure makes for a lot drier experience



                  3) When I screwed in the filter element, it appeared to not go in
                  straight, and was perched at an angle (despite being fully screwed in).
                  This made it somewhat difficult and consternating to screw the rest of the
                  casing on, although I did manage it with some care.

                  4) I am yet to hook the filter up to my hydration pack, for I am wary of a
                  couple of things. Will it leak? Will it force me to change how I carry
                  and use my hydration pack (I keep it in a special pouch at the top of my
                  Gregory Shasta, and run the tube down under my arm and up to a hook on my
                  shoulder strap)? Perhaps anyone who has already hooked theirs up can
                  assuage or confirm my fears.

                  I use mine as a gravity feed filter system. I don't put it in my hydration system.



                  5) After giving it a test run on the faucet, I blew the remaining water in
                  the system out with my mouth, and got a TERRIBLE taste in my mouth. The
                  taste wasn't as strong on the out side (either that or I was used to it),
                  but I am still concerned about whether the filter could affect the taste
                  of the water when used in the hydration pack as intended.

                  And now for the positives . . .

                  1) Water seems to flow through the filter very easily, which is always a
                  plus.

                  2) The filter withstood very high water flow from the faucet without
                  leaking or otherwise failing.

                  3) The filter is nice and small for what it does, and also relatively
                  lightweight.

                  4) No problems with the O-ring, even at high rates of flow from the
                  faucet.

                  5) The element appeared to flush very quickly.

                  I will give it a more rigorous test this weekend on a small trip, but I
                  thought I'd send a few initial comments. SO far my main observation is
                  INSTRUCTIONS, INSTRUCTIONS, INSTRUCTIONS!!!! They don't cost that much,
                  and it would have helped me out a lot.


                  Remember, it's a preproduction unit.

                  Stephen Payne





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