Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: My ES-1A has stopped working - looking for your thoughts, please!

Expand Messages
  • dmankin
    I pulled the large bolt out of the top of the group today. I found some standing water, and some scale... and NO gicleur, screen or spring! If you look in my
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 3, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      I pulled the large bolt out of the top of the group today. I found some standing water, and some scale... and NO gicleur, screen or spring!

      If you look in my dmankin photo album, you will see a few photos (5, I think) of my findings.

      The lack of gicleur would probably explain why many shots pulled started with a gusher that quickly self-heals. The full force of the pump's push might have been bombarding the puck!

      I welcome your thoughts and comments. Although this is an annoyance, I will have a better machine once the problem is rectified.

      Thanks,

      David
      ++++++++++++++++++

      --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "Tex" <Texas_Coffee@...> wrote:
      >
      > Since you've admitted to never having disassembled the group, I'd say start by checking the gicleur. If nothing else you find out if it's even got the parts in there!
      >
      > Tex
      >
      > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Folks - I haven't had a chance to open up the ES-1A yet, but I did run my previously-mentioned test this morning.
      > >
      > > The pump does indeed push fresh water to the boiler when requested:
      > >
      > > http://snipurl.com/bunn_2-2010a
      > >
      > > Gicleur screen or 3-way? Does this movie convince anyone that it's one over the other?
      > >
      > > I am still under the gun from other issues that will keep me from opening the machine for a bit, but now I know there is water reaching the pump, and it is being pumped to the boiler.
      > >
      > > I'd love your thoughts on this.
      > >
      > > David
      > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > >
      > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "Tex" <Texas_Coffee@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > David,
      > > > One other thing you can check is the gicleur screen. Look at the diagram for the group ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BUG-is-Bunn/photos/album/298077807/pic/460265320/view ): water flows into the group, through the screen/gicleur and then through the 3-way valve before it goes into the grouphead.
      > > >
      > > > Remove the larger of the 2 caps on top of the group. Under it you'll find a spring, a s/s screen filter, the copper gicleur, and the long hex fitting that screws into the group. Be a bit gentle with the copper gicleur, it gets brittle with age and the edges are thin.
      > > >
      > > > The s/s screen on my Mac Digit was always getting plugged with sediment. Since you're using a water softener/filter combo I doubt this is your problem, but it's one more thing to check. Soak the screen & gicleur in a strong citric acid solution to clean them. Make sure the hole in the gicleur is open (don't tell anyone, but I use a small needle to clear them).
      > > >
      > > > Either the gicleur is plugged or the 3-way valve is not working. That's where I'd put my money!
      > > >
      > > > Tex
      > > >
      > > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > After many months of very reliable & faithful espresso making, my Bunn ES-1A has stopped working. The machine is a bottom-lever model (steam & water), complete with a PID. I am hoping to solicit some thoughts and advice from you all, since I am not in a position to open her up right now & won't have a chance to work on the Bunn for likely a few weeks. Many of you have given sound advice to me and other members, and I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on my situation.
      > > > >
      > > > > Last week, I was running my cooling flush while tending to my portafilter for the morning's 1st shot. Everything was as it always is – Flash boiling at first. I listen for the boiling hiss to subside & then count to five – my usual routine. As I finished with my portafilter prep, I looked up at the group as my counting was to end. I saw the flush ending on its own. The pump was running still, but there was no water flowing from the group. Yikes. I did pull some water out of the hot water tap & the pump ran for a boiler refill. I did not have the presence of mind at the time to watch the PID for cold water in the boiler confirmation.
      > > > >
      > > > > Here are the thoughts (possible causes) that have run through my brain so far:
      > > > >
      > > > > • Water line obstruction (I don't this is likely – but certainly possible).
      > > > >
      > > > > • Pump has stopped working (rebuilt about a year ago, and my kitchen is no high-volume coffee shop).
      > > > >
      > > > > • A solenoid has stopped working (this is my strongest inclination – my refill solenoid has been chattering intermittently for years).
      > > > >
      > > > > Here's my plan of attack (and would like your thoughts on this):
      > > > > I will power the machine up as usual in order to bring the boiler up to temp. Once pressurized, I will open the hot water tap. After bleeding off a few ounces of hot water, the pump should engage and refill the boiler. {Here's a great benefit of a PID'd machine; if the pump kicks in and properly refills the boiler, I will see the PID's temp reading (thermocouple probe is in the boiler) drop as the cold water enters}. I've been watching this process regularly with the refill solenoid being suspect, and I know its normal behavior as read on the PID. If the pump engages and sends fresh water into the boiler (PID reading drops as pump runs), I will know that there is no obstruction before the pump, and that the pump is working.
      > > > >
      > > > > I also plan to open the machine & inspect all wires and connections to the 3way & refill solenoids. This machine's electrical system was compromised (corroded) when I received it, and replacing the original main power switch & heating element circuit wiring breathed new life into the machine. The electrical connections to the solenoids have not (yet) been inspected/changed.
      > > > >
      > > > > Question: If a solenoid is not working (causing the water to NOT go to the group), where does it go instead? Or does it?
      > > > > Your input would be greatly appreciated. I won't have a moment to work on this for quite a while, so I'd love to be able to get your thoughts and parse it out internally for a bit.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks all,
      > > > >
      > > > > David
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Ray Brown
      David… A “copy & paste” from one of my earlier posts.. (“The parts you probably need are the: Short Pin M8 - #50147, Jet Spring - #49505, Jet Filter -
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 3, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        David…



        A “copy & paste” from one of my earlier posts..



        (“The parts you probably need are the: Short Pin M8 - #50147, Jet Spring -
        #49505, Jet Filter - #48607, Viton O-ring - #48841 and the Jet Orifice -
        #50810, from Café Parts..



        If you decide to go with the new Injector lineup it is..: Group Filter -
        #53336, Group Injector - #54000, Injector Support - #53808, Rod O-ring -
        #48935



        The M10 X 1 Group Diffuser is #50815 … All from Café Parts.. ”)



        I went with the Injector, as did a few others, and it seems to work great..



        Ray





        From: BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of dmankin
        Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 4:54 PM
        To: BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [BUG] Re: My ES-1A has stopped working - looking for your thoughts,
        please!







        I pulled the large bolt out of the top of the group today. I found some
        standing water, and some scale... and NO gicleur, screen or spring!

        If you look in my dmankin photo album, you will see a few photos (5, I
        think) of my findings.

        The lack of gicleur would probably explain why many shots pulled started
        with a gusher that quickly self-heals. The full force of the pump's push
        might have been bombarding the puck!

        I welcome your thoughts and comments. Although this is an annoyance, I will
        have a better machine once the problem is rectified.

        Thanks,

        David
        ++++++++++++++++++

        --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BUG-is-Bunn%40yahoogroups.com> ,
        "Tex" <Texas_Coffee@...> wrote:
        >
        > Since you've admitted to never having disassembled the group, I'd say
        start by checking the gicleur. If nothing else you find out if it's even got
        the parts in there!
        >
        > Tex
        >
        > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BUG-is-Bunn%40yahoogroups.com>
        , "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Folks - I haven't had a chance to open up the ES-1A yet, but I did run
        my previously-mentioned test this morning.
        > >
        > > The pump does indeed push fresh water to the boiler when requested:
        > >
        > > http://snipurl.com/bunn_2-2010a
        > >
        > > Gicleur screen or 3-way? Does this movie convince anyone that it's one
        over the other?
        > >
        > > I am still under the gun from other issues that will keep me from
        opening the machine for a bit, but now I know there is water reaching the
        pump, and it is being pumped to the boiler.
        > >
        > > I'd love your thoughts on this.
        > >
        > > David
        > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > >
        > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:BUG-is-Bunn%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tex" <Texas_Coffee@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > David,
        > > > One other thing you can check is the gicleur screen. Look at the
        diagram for the group (
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BUG-is-Bunn/photos/album/298077807/pic/4602653
        20/view ): water flows into the group, through the screen/gicleur and then
        through the 3-way valve before it goes into the grouphead.
        > > >
        > > > Remove the larger of the 2 caps on top of the group. Under it you'll
        find a spring, a s/s screen filter, the copper gicleur, and the long hex
        fitting that screws into the group. Be a bit gentle with the copper gicleur,
        it gets brittle with age and the edges are thin.
        > > >
        > > > The s/s screen on my Mac Digit was always getting plugged with
        sediment. Since you're using a water softener/filter combo I doubt this is
        your problem, but it's one more thing to check. Soak the screen & gicleur in
        a strong citric acid solution to clean them. Make sure the hole in the
        gicleur is open (don't tell anyone, but I use a small needle to clear them).

        > > >
        > > > Either the gicleur is plugged or the 3-way valve is not working.
        That's where I'd put my money!
        > > >
        > > > Tex
        > > >
        > > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:BUG-is-Bunn%40yahoogroups.com> , "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > After many months of very reliable & faithful espresso making, my
        Bunn ES-1A has stopped working. The machine is a bottom-lever model (steam &
        water), complete with a PID. I am hoping to solicit some thoughts and advice
        from you all, since I am not in a position to open her up right now & won't
        have a chance to work on the Bunn for likely a few weeks. Many of you have
        given sound advice to me and other members, and I'm looking forward to
        reading your thoughts on my situation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Last week, I was running my cooling flush while tending to my
        portafilter for the morning's 1st shot. Everything was as it always is –
        Flash boiling at first. I listen for the boiling hiss to subside & then
        count to five – my usual routine. As I finished with my portafilter prep, I
        looked up at the group as my counting was to end. I saw the flush ending on
        its own. The pump was running still, but there was no water flowing from the
        group. Yikes. I did pull some water out of the hot water tap & the pump ran
        for a boiler refill. I did not have the presence of mind at the time to
        watch the PID for cold water in the boiler confirmation.
        > > > >
        > > > > Here are the thoughts (possible causes) that have run through my
        brain so far:
        > > > >
        > > > > • Water line obstruction (I don't this is likely – but certainly
        possible).
        > > > >
        > > > > • Pump has stopped working (rebuilt about a year ago, and my kitchen
        is no high-volume coffee shop).
        > > > >
        > > > > • A solenoid has stopped working (this is my strongest inclination –
        my refill solenoid has been chattering intermittently for years).
        > > > >
        > > > > Here's my plan of attack (and would like your thoughts on this):
        > > > > I will power the machine up as usual in order to bring the boiler up
        to temp. Once pressurized, I will open the hot water tap. After bleeding off
        a few ounces of hot water, the pump should engage and refill the boiler.
        {Here's a great benefit of a PID'd machine; if the pump kicks in and
        properly refills the boiler, I will see the PID's temp reading (thermocouple
        probe is in the boiler) drop as the cold water enters}. I've been watching
        this process regularly with the refill solenoid being suspect, and I know
        its normal behavior as read on the PID. If the pump engages and sends fresh
        water into the boiler (PID reading drops as pump runs), I will know that
        there is no obstruction before the pump, and that the pump is working.
        > > > >
        > > > > I also plan to open the machine & inspect all wires and connections
        to the 3way & refill solenoids. This machine's electrical system was
        compromised (corroded) when I received it, and replacing the original main
        power switch & heating element circuit wiring breathed new life into the
        machine. The electrical connections to the solenoids have not (yet) been
        inspected/changed.
        > > > >
        > > > > Question: If a solenoid is not working (causing the water to NOT go
        to the group), where does it go instead? Or does it?
        > > > > Your input would be greatly appreciated. I won't have a moment to
        work on this for quite a while, so I'd love to be able to get your thoughts
        and parse it out internally for a bit.
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks all,
        > > > >
        > > > > David
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tex
        I think we ought to emphasize the need to at least partially disassemble the group for new/old machines. It seems the gicleur gets left out of a lot of
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 3, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          I think we ought to emphasize the need to at least partially disassemble the group for new/old machines. It seems the gicleur gets left out of a lot of machines? I understand why - it's more important to keep the machine earning money than it is for it to work correctly.

          So, along that line of thought: A 7/8" wrench to remove the top fitting, and an 11/32" socket to remove the hex fitting inside. Anything else? Oh yes, a list of parts for those machines without the gicleur.

          Tex

          --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > I pulled the large bolt out of the top of the group today. I found some standing water, and some scale... and NO gicleur, screen or spring!
          >
          > If you look in my dmankin photo album, you will see a few photos (5, I think) of my findings.
          >
          > The lack of gicleur would probably explain why many shots pulled started with a gusher that quickly self-heals. The full force of the pump's push might have been bombarding the puck!
          >
          > I welcome your thoughts and comments. Although this is an annoyance, I will have a better machine once the problem is rectified.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > David
          > ++++++++++++++++++
          >
          > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "Tex" <Texas_Coffee@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Since you've admitted to never having disassembled the group, I'd say start by checking the gicleur. If nothing else you find out if it's even got the parts in there!
          > >
          > > Tex
          > >
          > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Folks - I haven't had a chance to open up the ES-1A yet, but I did run my previously-mentioned test this morning.
          > > >
          > > > The pump does indeed push fresh water to the boiler when requested:
          > > >
          > > > http://snipurl.com/bunn_2-2010a
          > > >
          > > > Gicleur screen or 3-way? Does this movie convince anyone that it's one over the other?
          > > >
          > > > I am still under the gun from other issues that will keep me from opening the machine for a bit, but now I know there is water reaching the pump, and it is being pumped to the boiler.
          > > >
          > > > I'd love your thoughts on this.
          > > >
          > > > David
          > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > >
          > > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "Tex" <Texas_Coffee@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > David,
          > > > > One other thing you can check is the gicleur screen. Look at the diagram for the group ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BUG-is-Bunn/photos/album/298077807/pic/460265320/view ): water flows into the group, through the screen/gicleur and then through the 3-way valve before it goes into the grouphead.
          > > > >
          > > > > Remove the larger of the 2 caps on top of the group. Under it you'll find a spring, a s/s screen filter, the copper gicleur, and the long hex fitting that screws into the group. Be a bit gentle with the copper gicleur, it gets brittle with age and the edges are thin.
          > > > >
          > > > > The s/s screen on my Mac Digit was always getting plugged with sediment. Since you're using a water softener/filter combo I doubt this is your problem, but it's one more thing to check. Soak the screen & gicleur in a strong citric acid solution to clean them. Make sure the hole in the gicleur is open (don't tell anyone, but I use a small needle to clear them).
          > > > >
          > > > > Either the gicleur is plugged or the 3-way valve is not working. That's where I'd put my money!
          > > > >
          > > > > Tex
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > After many months of very reliable & faithful espresso making, my Bunn ES-1A has stopped working. The machine is a bottom-lever model (steam & water), complete with a PID. I am hoping to solicit some thoughts and advice from you all, since I am not in a position to open her up right now & won't have a chance to work on the Bunn for likely a few weeks. Many of you have given sound advice to me and other members, and I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on my situation.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Last week, I was running my cooling flush while tending to my portafilter for the morning's 1st shot. Everything was as it always is – Flash boiling at first. I listen for the boiling hiss to subside & then count to five – my usual routine. As I finished with my portafilter prep, I looked up at the group as my counting was to end. I saw the flush ending on its own. The pump was running still, but there was no water flowing from the group. Yikes. I did pull some water out of the hot water tap & the pump ran for a boiler refill. I did not have the presence of mind at the time to watch the PID for cold water in the boiler confirmation.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Here are the thoughts (possible causes) that have run through my brain so far:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > • Water line obstruction (I don't this is likely – but certainly possible).
          > > > > >
          > > > > > • Pump has stopped working (rebuilt about a year ago, and my kitchen is no high-volume coffee shop).
          > > > > >
          > > > > > • A solenoid has stopped working (this is my strongest inclination – my refill solenoid has been chattering intermittently for years).
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Here's my plan of attack (and would like your thoughts on this):
          > > > > > I will power the machine up as usual in order to bring the boiler up to temp. Once pressurized, I will open the hot water tap. After bleeding off a few ounces of hot water, the pump should engage and refill the boiler. {Here's a great benefit of a PID'd machine; if the pump kicks in and properly refills the boiler, I will see the PID's temp reading (thermocouple probe is in the boiler) drop as the cold water enters}. I've been watching this process regularly with the refill solenoid being suspect, and I know its normal behavior as read on the PID. If the pump engages and sends fresh water into the boiler (PID reading drops as pump runs), I will know that there is no obstruction before the pump, and that the pump is working.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I also plan to open the machine & inspect all wires and connections to the 3way & refill solenoids. This machine's electrical system was compromised (corroded) when I received it, and replacing the original main power switch & heating element circuit wiring breathed new life into the machine. The electrical connections to the solenoids have not (yet) been inspected/changed.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Question: If a solenoid is not working (causing the water to NOT go to the group), where does it go instead? Or does it?
          > > > > > Your input would be greatly appreciated. I won't have a moment to work on this for quite a while, so I'd love to be able to get your thoughts and parse it out internally for a bit.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Thanks all,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > David
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.