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[BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning

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  • Robert Harmon
    Hi Paul, Bitter is an indicator of too high temps. If there is also a darker color crema - that too is indicative of too high temps. My guess would be that you
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
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      Hi Paul,
      Bitter is an indicator of too high temps. If there is also a darker color crema - that too is indicative of too high temps.

      My guess would be that you need to try a longer cooling flush.

      Tex

      --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
      >
      > I have checked the hemp with the styrofoam cup method and found the temp to be 203 deg. I do the flush.
      >
      > The inconsistency is the taste! It some times is has a bitter taste. The 2oz pull is around 25 - 30sec.
      > Paul
      > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>
      >
      > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:27:54
      > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
      >
      >
      > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
      > >
      > > Any Thoughts??
      > >
      > > Paul Marchetto
      > >
      >
      > Inconsistent in what way Paul?
      >
      > Are you pulling a cooling flush to normalize the group/HX temps?
      > I've found that flushed vary depending on how long the machine has been idle. Maybe 45 minutes isn't long enough to preheat the machine?
      >
      > BTW: Is your remote switch up to the amperage demands of the machine?
      >
      >
      > Tex
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • pmarchetto@aol.com
      Tex. There is a mottling color to the thick crema. Temp is around 203. To high? Paul Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Robert Harmon
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
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        Tex. There is a mottling color to the thick crema. Temp is around 203. To high?
        Paul
        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

        -----Original Message-----
        From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>

        Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:23:01
        To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning


        Hi Paul,
        Bitter is an indicator of too high temps. If there is also a darker color crema - that too is indicative of too high temps.

        My guess would be that you need to try a longer cooling flush.

        Tex

        --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
        >
        > I have checked the hemp with the styrofoam cup method and found the temp to be 203 deg. I do the flush.
        >
        > The inconsistency is the taste! It some times is has a bitter taste. The 2oz pull is around 25 - 30sec.
        > Paul
        > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>
        >
        > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:27:54
        > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
        >
        >
        > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
        > >
        > > Any Thoughts??
        > >
        > > Paul Marchetto
        > >
        >
        > Inconsistent in what way Paul?
        >
        > Are you pulling a cooling flush to normalize the group/HX temps?
        > I've found that flushed vary depending on how long the machine has been idle. Maybe 45 minutes isn't long enough to preheat the machine?
        >
        > BTW: Is your remote switch up to the amperage demands of the machine?
        >
        >
        > Tex
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dmankin
        Paul, My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
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          Paul,

          My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.

          BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.

          Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.

          Keep us posted,

          David
          ++++++++++++++++++++++

          --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
          >
          > Any Thoughts??
          >
          > Paul Marchetto
          >
        • pmarchetto@aol.com
          Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM. When doe you start
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
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            Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.

            When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
            Paul
            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

            -----Original Message-----
            From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@...>

            Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
            To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning


            Paul,

            My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.

            BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.

            Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.

            Keep us posted,

            David
            ++++++++++++++++++++++

            --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
            >
            > Any Thoughts??
            >
            > Paul Marchetto
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Harmon
            This is why I like using a modded Gaggia for my daily shots. I like to adjust the temps up or down depending on the coffee (every coffee and every roast of
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
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              This is why I like using a modded Gaggia for my daily shots. I like to adjust the temps up or down depending on the coffee (every coffee and every roast of every coffee has it's own temp *sweet spot*).

              It's easier to do this with a PID'd Gaggia because of the smaller boiler. With my PID'd Bunn I have to drain off a lot of the boiler water & flush the HX/group a lot before the new temp is evident. It can be done, but it's more effort.

              Tex

              --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
              >
              > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
              >
              > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
              > Paul
              > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@...>
              >
              > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
              > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
              >
              >
              > Paul,
              >
              > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
              >
              > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
              >
              > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
              >
              > Keep us posted,
              >
              > David
              > ++++++++++++++++++++++
              >
              > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
              > >
              > > Any Thoughts??
              > >
              > > Paul Marchetto
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • pmarchetto@aol.com
              Tex I did not realize how much a small chg in temp will affect the coffee taste. When you start timing the shot? First drops of coffee or pump start? Paul
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
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                Tex
                I did not realize how much a small chg in temp will affect the coffee taste. When you start timing the shot? First drops of coffee or pump start?
                Paul
                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                -----Original Message-----
                From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>

                Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:01:06
                To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning


                This is why I like using a modded Gaggia for my daily shots. I like to adjust the temps up or down depending on the coffee (every coffee and every roast of every coffee has it's own temp *sweet spot*).

                It's easier to do this with a PID'd Gaggia because of the smaller boiler. With my PID'd Bunn I have to drain off a lot of the boiler water & flush the HX/group a lot before the new temp is evident. It can be done, but it's more effort.

                Tex

                --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
                >
                > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                >
                > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                > Paul
                > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@...>
                >
                > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                >
                >
                > Paul,
                >
                > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                >
                > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                >
                > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                >
                > Keep us posted,
                >
                > David
                > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                >
                > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                > >
                > > Any Thoughts??
                > >
                > > Paul Marchetto
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Robert Harmon
                Hi Paul, One friend roasted a batch of beans to a Vienna Plus level and emailed me that they tasted so bad he was going to toss the beans. I suggested he drop
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Paul,
                  One friend roasted a batch of beans to a Vienna Plus level and emailed me that they tasted so bad he was going to toss the beans. I suggested he drop the PID preset by 10 degrees Fahrenheit and try them again. He was surprised that what he thought fit only for the compost bin was worth drinking after all.

                  My general rule-of-thumb is; the darker the roast, the lower the temp. I will also raise the temp as the beans age. Right now I'm using a 10-day old blend of Brazil Santos & Ethiopian Yirgacheffe that I roasted to a light Vienna, and I'd originally dropped the preset on the PID to 194 degree Fahrenheit; it's now back up to 198 degrees and tastes wonderful.

                  I time my shots from the flip of the switch - 2 ozs in 30 seconds. This takes into account the pre-infusion (I leave mine on) and the pressure ramp-up. I guess it's more important to use a consistent time than a precise time (if that makes sense). Anything will work if you aim for that for every shot.

                  I like my shots to be the color of a well-aged piece of oiled cherry wood. If you're using a bottomless portafilter, you'll notice what's called "tiger striping", the striation in the shot as it's pulled through the filter. If the color is more brown than red, you can figure the coffee id burned and the temps for subsequent shots should be lowered.

                  David Mankin has some excellent videos of pulls that demonstrate the colors & tiger striping I refer to: http://www.youtube.com/oboerista


                  I hope this helps?
                  Tex


                  --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Tex
                  > I did not realize how much a small chg in temp will affect the coffee taste. When you start timing the shot? First drops of coffee or pump start?
                  > Paul
                  > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>
                  >
                  > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:01:06
                  > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                  >
                  >
                  > This is why I like using a modded Gaggia for my daily shots. I like to adjust the temps up or down depending on the coffee (every coffee and every roast of every coffee has it's own temp *sweet spot*).
                  >
                  > It's easier to do this with a PID'd Gaggia because of the smaller boiler. With my PID'd Bunn I have to drain off a lot of the boiler water & flush the HX/group a lot before the new temp is evident. It can be done, but it's more effort.
                  >
                  > Tex
                  >
                  > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                  > >
                  > > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                  > > Paul
                  > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@>
                  > >
                  > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                  > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Paul,
                  > >
                  > > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                  > >
                  > > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                  > >
                  > > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                  > >
                  > > Keep us posted,
                  > >
                  > > David
                  > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                  > >
                  > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                  > > >
                  > > > Any Thoughts??
                  > > >
                  > > > Paul Marchetto
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • pmarchetto@aol.com
                  As always Tex. A great help. I will vary the temps and be consistent with the timing. Paul Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Robert Harmon
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
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                    As always Tex. A great help. I will vary the temps and be consistent with the timing. Paul
                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>

                    Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:50:03
                    To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning


                    Hi Paul,
                    One friend roasted a batch of beans to a Vienna Plus level and emailed me that they tasted so bad he was going to toss the beans. I suggested he drop the PID preset by 10 degrees Fahrenheit and try them again. He was surprised that what he thought fit only for the compost bin was worth drinking after all.

                    My general rule-of-thumb is; the darker the roast, the lower the temp. I will also raise the temp as the beans age. Right now I'm using a 10-day old blend of Brazil Santos & Ethiopian Yirgacheffe that I roasted to a light Vienna, and I'd originally dropped the preset on the PID to 194 degree Fahrenheit; it's now back up to 198 degrees and tastes wonderful.

                    I time my shots from the flip of the switch - 2 ozs in 30 seconds. This takes into account the pre-infusion (I leave mine on) and the pressure ramp-up. I guess it's more important to use a consistent time than a precise time (if that makes sense). Anything will work if you aim for that for every shot.

                    I like my shots to be the color of a well-aged piece of oiled cherry wood. If you're using a bottomless portafilter, you'll notice what's called "tiger striping", the striation in the shot as it's pulled through the filter. If the color is more brown than red, you can figure the coffee id burned and the temps for subsequent shots should be lowered.

                    David Mankin has some excellent videos of pulls that demonstrate the colors & tiger striping I refer to: http://www.youtube.com/oboerista


                    I hope this helps?
                    Tex


                    --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Tex
                    > I did not realize how much a small chg in temp will affect the coffee taste. When you start timing the shot? First drops of coffee or pump start?
                    > Paul
                    > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>
                    >
                    > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:01:06
                    > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                    >
                    >
                    > This is why I like using a modded Gaggia for my daily shots. I like to adjust the temps up or down depending on the coffee (every coffee and every roast of every coffee has it's own temp *sweet spot*).
                    >
                    > It's easier to do this with a PID'd Gaggia because of the smaller boiler. With my PID'd Bunn I have to drain off a lot of the boiler water & flush the HX/group a lot before the new temp is evident. It can be done, but it's more effort.
                    >
                    > Tex
                    >
                    > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                    > >
                    > > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                    > > Paul
                    > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@>
                    > >
                    > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                    > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Paul,
                    > >
                    > > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                    > >
                    > > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                    > >
                    > > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                    > >
                    > > Keep us posted,
                    > >
                    > > David
                    > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                    > >
                    > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                    > > >
                    > > > Any Thoughts??
                    > > >
                    > > > Paul Marchetto
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Robert Harmon
                    ... As always Paul, it s worth every penny paid! ;-) Tex
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 23, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
                      >
                      > As always Tex. A great help.

                      As always Paul, it's worth every penny paid!

                      ;-)
                      Tex
                    • dmankin
                      Paul, Right or wrong, I start my shot clock AFTER the preinfusion, when the solenoid clicks for the actual shot pressure surge. David
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jul 24, 2009
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                        Paul,

                        Right or wrong, I start my shot clock AFTER the preinfusion, when the solenoid clicks for the actual shot pressure surge.

                        David
                        ++++++++++++++++++++

                        --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                        >
                        > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                        > Paul
                        > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@...>
                        >
                        > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                        > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                        >
                        >
                        > Paul,
                        >
                        > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                        >
                        > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                        >
                        > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                        >
                        > Keep us posted,
                        >
                        > David
                        > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                        >
                        > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                        > >
                        > > Any Thoughts??
                        > >
                        > > Paul Marchetto
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Jake Wilson
                        ... ~~~hey, i resemble that remark=:-) Now that I m pulling shots with an hx machine w/o PID, I can t change my pressure/temp easily. Doing so invloves
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jul 25, 2009
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                          --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...> wrote:






                          > One friend roasted a batch of beans to a Vienna Plus level and emailed me that they tasted so bad he was going to toss the beans. I suggested he drop the PID preset by 10 degrees Fahrenheit and try them again. He was surprised that what he thought fit only for the compost bin was worth drinking after all.
                          >







                          ~~~hey, i resemble that remark=:-) Now that I'm pulling shots with an hx machine w/o PID, I can't change my pressure/temp easily. Doing so invloves re-moving some screws, cover panel, then getting to the p-stat. fortunately for me, I have learnt not to over roast my beans. Getting into the front of 2nd crack (no more than 15 seconds worth) and I am good to go


                          Speaking of ethiopians (Tex was), I bought 5 lbs of yirg Koke from Chad recently. This bean really gets it for me, roasting it to the aforementioned level. Although I've had ethiopians (yirg) before from CCM and like what they sold me, the best was last year's IMV. I bought 25 lbs through Thompson and it has been my all time favorite coffee drank/pulled as shots in milk drinks, but that bean was gone before the end of spring. I almost re-ordered more but thought better of it (too much of a good thing?)


                          Getting back to this yirg Koke, it re-afirmed what I like about drinking ethiopian yirgacheffe. And if pushed, I would have to say yirg is my favorite bean to roast/pull shots/drink, at least the IMV and Koke. there are plenty of other ethiopians I have not had the pleasure to sample


                          More on point in regards to what Tex said about matching brewer strike water temp to beans...I find I like this current yirg young. Since I'm roasting 250 grams at a time, I'll drink it up in a couple days and roasting again. 4 hours out of the roaster and I'm lovin it. it's gone in 2 days. roast, drink, repeat






                          Jake
                          Reddick Fla.







                          >
                          > Hi Paul,
                          > One friend roasted a batch of beans to a Vienna Plus level and emailed me that they tasted so bad he was going to toss the beans. I suggested he drop the PID preset by 10 degrees Fahrenheit and try them again. He was surprised that what he thought fit only for the compost bin was worth drinking after all.
                          >
                          > My general rule-of-thumb is; the darker the roast, the lower the temp. I will also raise the temp as the beans age. Right now I'm using a 10-day old blend of Brazil Santos & Ethiopian Yirgacheffe that I roasted to a light Vienna, and I'd originally dropped the preset on the PID to 194 degree Fahrenheit; it's now back up to 198 degrees and tastes wonderful.
                          >
                          > I time my shots from the flip of the switch - 2 ozs in 30 seconds. This takes into account the pre-infusion (I leave mine on) and the pressure ramp-up. I guess it's more important to use a consistent time than a precise time (if that makes sense). Anything will work if you aim for that for every shot.
                          >
                          > I like my shots to be the color of a well-aged piece of oiled cherry wood. If you're using a bottomless portafilter, you'll notice what's called "tiger striping", the striation in the shot as it's pulled through the filter. If the color is more brown than red, you can figure the coffee id burned and the temps for subsequent shots should be lowered.
                          >
                          > David Mankin has some excellent videos of pulls that demonstrate the colors & tiger striping I refer to: http://www.youtube.com/oboerista
                          >
                          >
                          > I hope this helps?
                          > Tex
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Tex
                          > > I did not realize how much a small chg in temp will affect the coffee taste. When you start timing the shot? First drops of coffee or pump start?
                          > > Paul
                          > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@>
                          > >
                          > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:01:06
                          > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > This is why I like using a modded Gaggia for my daily shots. I like to adjust the temps up or down depending on the coffee (every coffee and every roast of every coffee has it's own temp *sweet spot*).
                          > >
                          > > It's easier to do this with a PID'd Gaggia because of the smaller boiler. With my PID'd Bunn I have to drain off a lot of the boiler water & flush the HX/group a lot before the new temp is evident. It can be done, but it's more effort.
                          > >
                          > > Tex
                          > >
                          > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                          > > >
                          > > > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                          > > > Paul
                          > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@>
                          > > >
                          > > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                          > > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Paul,
                          > > >
                          > > > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                          > > >
                          > > > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                          > > >
                          > > > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                          > > >
                          > > > Keep us posted,
                          > > >
                          > > > David
                          > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Any Thoughts??
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Paul Marchetto
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                        • Robert Harmon
                          If I time it like that then I m looking at 2 ozs in 25 seconds. Like I said, it s not so much the time that s important as it is the consistency of timing. Use
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jul 25, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            If I time it like that then I'm looking at 2 ozs in 25 seconds. Like I said, it's not so much the time that's important as it is the consistency of timing.

                            Use the Golden Rule to get your grinder dialed in, then tune your technique to stop the shot just as it starts to blond. If it happens too quickly, then make the grind finer; if it takes too long make it coarser.

                            Piece of cake,
                            Tex

                            --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Paul,
                            >
                            > Right or wrong, I start my shot clock AFTER the preinfusion, when the solenoid clicks for the actual shot pressure surge.
                            >
                            > David
                            > ++++++++++++++++++++
                            >
                            > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                            > >
                            > > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                            > > Paul
                            > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@>
                            > >
                            > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                            > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Paul,
                            > >
                            > > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                            > >
                            > > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                            > >
                            > > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                            > >
                            > > Keep us posted,
                            > >
                            > > David
                            > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                            > >
                            > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                            > > >
                            > > > Any Thoughts??
                            > > >
                            > > > Paul Marchetto
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                          • pmarchetto@aol.com
                            Tex. I reduced the water temp and found the shot to be much smother. I am timing the pull at the start of the pump. I measure the 2oz double but after the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jul 25, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Tex. I reduced the water temp and found the shot to be much smother. I am timing the pull at the start of the pump. I measure the 2oz double but after the crema settles out, the liquid level is only 1.75oz! Do you increase the total vol of the pull to end up with 2oz and still time the 28sec pull. This sure sounds a bit over the top!!!
                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>

                              Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:40:14
                              To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning


                              If I time it like that then I'm looking at 2 ozs in 25 seconds. Like I said, it's not so much the time that's important as it is the consistency of timing.

                              Use the Golden Rule to get your grinder dialed in, then tune your technique to stop the shot just as it starts to blond. If it happens too quickly, then make the grind finer; if it takes too long make it coarser.

                              Piece of cake,
                              Tex

                              --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Paul,
                              >
                              > Right or wrong, I start my shot clock AFTER the preinfusion, when the solenoid clicks for the actual shot pressure surge.
                              >
                              > David
                              > ++++++++++++++++++++
                              >
                              > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                              > >
                              > > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                              > > Paul
                              > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@>
                              > >
                              > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                              > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Paul,
                              > >
                              > > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                              > >
                              > > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                              > >
                              > > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                              > >
                              > > Keep us posted,
                              > >
                              > > David
                              > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                              > >
                              > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                              > > >
                              > > > Any Thoughts??
                              > > >
                              > > > Paul Marchetto
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Robert Harmon
                              Paul, What s the shot like at the end of the pull? Personally, I pull into a 3 oz shot glass and let the the shot run for however long it takes the second
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jul 25, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Paul,
                                What's the shot like at the end of the pull? Personally, I pull into a 3 oz shot glass and let the the shot run for however long it takes the second button to pull a shot.

                                2 ozs with crema is what I'm shooting for after the shot has rested ~30 seconds. If I get 2 ozs before it blonds I'll grind a bit coarser and if it starts blonding before 2 ozs I'll grind finer.

                                Good to hear that the shot improved after you dropped the temp.

                                Tex

                                --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:
                                >
                                > Tex. I reduced the water temp and found the shot to be much smother. I am timing the pull at the start of the pump. I measure the 2oz double but after the crema settles out, the liquid level is only 1.75oz! Do you increase the total vol of the pull to end up with 2oz and still time the 28sec pull. This sure sounds a bit over the top!!!
                                > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>
                                >
                                > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:40:14
                                > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                                >
                                >
                                > If I time it like that then I'm looking at 2 ozs in 25 seconds. Like I said, it's not so much the time that's important as it is the consistency of timing.
                                >
                                > Use the Golden Rule to get your grinder dialed in, then tune your technique to stop the shot just as it starts to blond. If it happens too quickly, then make the grind finer; if it takes too long make it coarser.
                                >
                                > Piece of cake,
                                > Tex
                                >
                                > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Paul,
                                > >
                                > > Right or wrong, I start my shot clock AFTER the preinfusion, when the solenoid clicks for the actual shot pressure surge.
                                > >
                                > > David
                                > > ++++++++++++++++++++
                                > >
                                > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                                > > >
                                > > > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                                > > > Paul
                                > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                > > >
                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@>
                                > > >
                                > > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                                > > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Paul,
                                > > >
                                > > > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                                > > >
                                > > > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                                > > >
                                > > > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                                > > >
                                > > > Keep us posted,
                                > > >
                                > > > David
                                > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Any Thoughts??
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Paul Marchetto
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Jake Wilson
                                ... I am timing the pull at the start of the pump. I measure the 2oz double but after the crema settles out, the liquid level is only 1.75oz! ~~~1.75 oz is a
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jul 26, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@... wrote:







                                  I am timing the pull at the start of the pump. I measure the 2oz double but after the crema settles out, the liquid level is only 1.75oz!




                                  ~~~1.75 oz is a double ristretto, my target shot. Truth be told, I prefer a 1.5 ounce double even more so=:-)





                                  Do you increase the total vol of the pull to end up with 2oz and still time the 28sec pull. This sure sounds a bit over the top!!!





                                  ~~~Nothing is black and white as far as when to termminate a shot IMNSHO. As much (and many) as I like to drike ristretto cap/late hybrids, I enjoy a good lungo espresso milk drink now and then. All depends on the flavor of the beans. And since I'm changing up my bean selection every so often, for sure, nothing is black and white. Best espresso drink I ever had?, what I'm drinking at the moment, probably=:-)




                                  Jake
                                  Reddick Fla.





                                  >
                                  > Tex. I reduced the water temp and found the shot to be much smother. I am timing the pull at the start of the pump. I measure the 2oz double but after the crema settles out, the liquid level is only 1.75oz! Do you increase the total vol of the pull to end up with 2oz and still time the 28sec pull. This sure sounds a bit over the top!!!
                                  > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: "Robert Harmon" <Texas_Coffee@...>
                                  >
                                  > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:40:14
                                  > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > If I time it like that then I'm looking at 2 ozs in 25 seconds. Like I said, it's not so much the time that's important as it is the consistency of timing.
                                  >
                                  > Use the Golden Rule to get your grinder dialed in, then tune your technique to stop the shot just as it starts to blond. If it happens too quickly, then make the grind finer; if it takes too long make it coarser.
                                  >
                                  > Piece of cake,
                                  > Tex
                                  >
                                  > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "dmankin" <david.mankin@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Paul,
                                  > >
                                  > > Right or wrong, I start my shot clock AFTER the preinfusion, when the solenoid clicks for the actual shot pressure surge.
                                  > >
                                  > > David
                                  > > ++++++++++++++++++++
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, pmarchetto@ wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Dave. I decreased the pstat pressure and now have a brew temp of 197. 30 second pull. It tastes better so I will see how it is in the AM.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > When doe you start timing the shot? As soon as the pump goes on or when the first drops of coffee appears?
                                  > > > Paul
                                  > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                  > > >
                                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > > From: "dmankin" <david.mankin@>
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:05:09
                                  > > > To: <BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > Subject: [BUG] Re: Inconsistent first pull in the morning
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Paul,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My ES-1A needs about 30-35 minutes to be ready to pull a good 1st shot in the morning. 45 min. should be enough time for yours, and a good flush should get that group plenty hot to pull a good one.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > BTW - one of the great perks of having a PID is the ability to monitor the boiler temp visually, through both initial warmup & throughout the day.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Have you considered trying some different coffee? I'm always switching to try new stuff... and there have been plenty of beans that I can't get a great cup with. Some make for a picture-perfect pour, but don't taste so great, while others pour sloppily, yet are delicious! Go figure.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Keep us posted,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > David
                                  > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In BUG-is-Bunn@yahoogroups.com, "paul.marchetto" <pmarchetto@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I have a remote switch that turns my machine on 45mins before I make pull my first espresso. The Temperature is set to 203 degrees at the group. I use a bottomless pf and grind 14 gms fresh roasted of coffee. The inconsistent brew is puzzling.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Any Thoughts??
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Paul Marchetto
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
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