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9600 baud packet instability

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  • k1jtc
    We are having problems with consistent connects using outpost. When using hyperterminal it connects better but still retries muliple times. Below are the
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 14, 2012
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      We are having problems with consistent connects using outpost. When using hyperterminal it connects better but still retries muliple times. Below are the settings that I have in the config file. I am using a kantronics 9612. Any suggestions to make it more stable would be greatly appreciated.




      PORT
      PORTNUM=1 ; Optional but sets port number if stated
      ID=BBS 223.520 MHz ; Displayed by PORTS command
      TYPE=ASYNC ; Port is RS232 Com
      PROTOCOL=KISS ; TNC is used in KISS (or JKISS) mode
      ; See ..\RelatedFiles\KissRoms\KissRoms.zip.
      FULLDUP=0 ; Only meaningful for KISS (or JKISS) devices
      IOADDR=1 ; 1 = SERIAL PORT COM1 ETC.
      SPEED=9600 ; RS232 COM PORT SPEED
      CHANNEL=B ; A for single channel TNC, A or B for multichannel
      PERSIST=64 ; PERSIST=256/(# of transmitters-1)
      SLOTTIME=50 ; CMSA interval timer in milliseconds
      TXDELAY=300 ; Transmit keyup delay in milliseconds
      TXTAIL=30 ; TX key down, in milliseconds, at packet end
      QUALITY=125 ; Quality factor applied to node broadcasts heard on
      ; this port, unless overridden by a locked route
      ; entry. Setting to 0 stops node broadcasts
      MINQUAL=0 ; Entries in the nodes table with qualities greater or
      ; equal to MINQUAL will be sent on this port. A value
      ; of 0 sends everything.
      MAXFRAME=4 ; Max outstanding frames (1 thru 7)
      FRACK=5000 ; Level 2 timout in milliseconds
      RESPTIME=1000 ; Level 2 delayed ack timer in milliseconds
      RETRIES=5 ; Level 2 maximum retry value
      PACLEN=125 ; Default max packet length for this port
      UNPROTO=ANTBBS ; BTEXT broadcast addrs format: DEST[,digi1[,digi2]]
      BCALL=K1JTC-10 ; BTEXT call. unstated defaults to APPL1CALL
      L3ONLY=0 ; 1=No user downlink connects on this port
      DIGIFLAG=1 ; Digipeat: 0=OFF, 1=ALL, 255=UI Only
      DIGIPORT=0 ; Port on which to send digi'd frames (0 = same port)
      USERS=0 ; Maximum number of L2 sessions, 0 = no limit
      ENDPORT
    • Jerry
      Ill look yours over more in morning. But here are mine I use a KPC9612 as well mine feeds an Icom 38A Have you adjusted your TX audio and equalization in the
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 14, 2012
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        Ill look yours over more in morning… But here are mine I use a KPC9612 as well mine feeds an Icom 38A

         

        Have you adjusted your TX audio and equalization in the TNC…??? 73 Jerry N9LYA

         

        PORT                                     ; 220 Meter Emcom FREQ.

        PORTNUM=9                    ; Optional but sets port number if stated

        ID=9600 223.600 MHz    ; Displayed by PORTS command

        TYPE=ASYNC                     ; Port is RS232 Com

        PROTOCOL=KISS                             ; TNC is used in KISS mode

        FULLDUP=0                       ; Only meaningful for KISS devices

        IOADDR=C                         ; 1 = SERIAL PORT COM1 ETC.

        SPEED=9600                      ; RS232 COM PORT SPEED

        CHANNEL=B                      ; A for single channel TNC, A or B for multichannel

        PERSIST=64                        ; PERSIST=256/(# of transmitters-1)

        SLOTTIME=100                 ; CMSA interval timer in milliseconds

        TXDELAY=300                    ; Transmit keyup delay in milliseconds

        TXTAIL=0                            ; TX key down, in milliseconds, at packet end;

        QUALITY=192                    ; Quality factor applied to node broadcasts heard on

                                                        ; this port, unless overridden by a locked route

                                                        ; entry. Setting to 0 stops node broadcasts

        MINQUAL=95                   ; Entries in the nodes table with qualities greater or

                                                        ; equal to MINQUAL will be sent on this port. A value

                                                        ; of 0 sends everything.

        MAXFRAME=2                 ; Max outstanding frames (1 thru 7)

        FRACK=5000                      ; Level 2 timout in milliseconds

        RESPTIME=1000                               ; Level 2 delayed ack timer in milliseconds

        RETRIES=10                        ; Level 2 maximum retry value

        PACLEN=236                     ; Default max packet length for this port

        UNPROTO=Nodes:                         ; BTEXT broadcast addrs format: DEST[,digi1[,digi2]]

        BCALL=n9lya-7                 ; BTEXT call. unstated defaults to APPL1CALL

        L3ONLY=0                           ; 1=No user downlink connects on this port

        DIGIFLAG=1                      ; Digipeat: 0=OFF, 1=ALL, 255=UI Only

        DIGIPORT=0                      ; Port on which to send digi'd frames (0 = same port)

        USERS=0                             ; Maximum number of L2 sessions, 0 = no limit

        WL2KREPORT PUBLIC, www.winlink.org, 8778, K9BBS-10, EM68SR, 00-23, 223600000, PKT9600, 65, 35, 5, 0

        ENDPORT

         

        From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k1jtc
        Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:32 PM
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [BPQ32] 9600 baud packet instability

         

         

        We are having problems with consistent connects using outpost. When using hyperterminal it connects better but still retries muliple times. Below are the settings that I have in the config file. I am using a kantronics 9612. Any suggestions to make it more stable would be greatly appreciated.

        PORT
        PORTNUM=1 ; Optional but sets port number if stated
        ID=BBS 223.520 MHz ; Displayed by PORTS command
        TYPE=ASYNC ; Port is RS232 Com
        PROTOCOL=KISS ; TNC is used in KISS (or JKISS) mode
        ; See ..\RelatedFiles\KissRoms\KissRoms.zip.
        FULLDUP=0 ; Only meaningful for KISS (or JKISS) devices
        IOADDR=1 ; 1 = SERIAL PORT COM1 ETC.
        SPEED=9600 ; RS232 COM PORT SPEED
        CHANNEL=B ; A for single channel TNC, A or B for multichannel
        PERSIST=64 ; PERSIST=256/(# of transmitters-1)
        SLOTTIME=50 ; CMSA interval timer in milliseconds
        TXDELAY=300 ; Transmit keyup delay in milliseconds
        TXTAIL=30 ; TX key down, in milliseconds, at packet end
        QUALITY=125 ; Quality factor applied to node broadcasts heard on
        ; this port, unless overridden by a locked route
        ; entry. Setting to 0 stops node broadcasts
        MINQUAL=0 ; Entries in the nodes table with qualities greater or
        ; equal to MINQUAL will be sent on this port. A value
        ; of 0 sends everything.
        MAXFRAME=4 ; Max outstanding frames (1 thru 7)
        FRACK=5000 ; Level 2 timout in milliseconds
        RESPTIME=1000 ; Level 2 delayed ack timer in milliseconds
        RETRIES=5 ; Level 2 maximum retry value
        PACLEN=125 ; Default max packet length for this port
        UNPROTO=ANTBBS ; BTEXT broadcast addrs format: DEST[,digi1[,digi2]]
        BCALL=K1JTC-10 ; BTEXT call. unstated defaults to APPL1CALL
        L3ONLY=0 ; 1=No user downlink connects on this port
        DIGIFLAG=1 ; Digipeat: 0=OFF, 1=ALL, 255=UI Only
        DIGIPORT=0 ; Port on which to send digi'd frames (0 = same port)
        USERS=0 ; Maximum number of L2 sessions, 0 = no limit
        ENDPORT

      • N9ACQ
        Jeff The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and filters on both transmit
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 14, 2012
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          Jeff

                          The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and filters on both transmit and receive. A deviation meter really is needed to set the proper audio level to the radio. The other thing is what is the S meter reading on receive?

          73 Bill

          N9ACQ

        • ve2hom Pascal
          Hello, I see you run the com port at 9600 baud, I sugest to you to put it at higher speed like 19200 baud. One of the reason if you receive data on 1200 baud
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 14, 2012
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            Hello,
            I see you run the com port at 9600 baud, I sugest to you to put it
            at higher speed like 19200 baud. One of the reason if you receive data
            on 1200 baud and 9600 baud channel the comport speed is not enough.

            73 de Pascal
            ve2hom

            Le 2012-11-14 17:32, k1jtc a écrit :
            > We are having problems with consistent connects using outpost. When using hyperterminal it connects better but still retries muliple times. Below are the settings that I have in the config file. I am using a kantronics 9612. Any suggestions to make it more stable would be greatly appreciated.
            >
            >
          • k1jtc
            Rather than reply to all I will post all replies here. I am running alinco 235. I have 2 radios sitting in the same room. From what I understand the KPC
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 14, 2012
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              Rather than reply to all I will post all replies here. I am running alinco 235. I have 2 radios sitting in the same room. From what I understand the KPC 9612 only supports 9600 baud on the com port so that is the highest speed to go to the computer. Am I wrong? S meter readings are full scale in the room as well as when I try across the city. The radios are identical except the one that is not hooked to the bbs has the internal tnc option.

              --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "N9ACQ" <n9acq@...> wrote:
              >
              > Jeff
              >
              > The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should
              > be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and filters
              > on both transmit and receive. A deviation meter really is needed to set the
              > proper audio level to the radio. The other thing is what is the S meter
              > reading on receive?
              >
              > 73 Bill
              >
              > N9ACQ
              >
            • N9ACQ
              Jeff Comport can go to 19.3 K. What is the deviation, this is critical. 73 Bill N9ACQ
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 14, 2012
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                Jeff

                                Comport can go to 19.3 K. What is the deviation, this is critical.

                73 Bill

                N9ACQ

              • Jim
                Yes deviation and modulation acceptance in the receiver is another determining factor. In other words if you can not receive what is the use! With the g3ruh
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                  Yes deviation and modulation acceptance in the receiver is another determining factor. In other words if you can not receive what is the use!

                  With the g3ruh modems there is a procedure of setting deviation and measuring the time between dropped rx packets. If you can find some with a 2 way radio shop maybe he can help you I bought a Agilent 8924C a few years back that works well for this it was a cell phone test box but also has analog test functions and will measure SINAD directly on a monitor screen. 

                  I connected the radios in pairs and terminated the tx and tx units and found my best deviation was around 2.7khz. That was with GE delta radios. I ran a system from Pensacola to Dickenson tax and it would do a ping in 3 seconds. 

                  Jim 
                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Nov 14, 2012, at 17:51, "N9ACQ" <n9acq@...> wrote:

                   

                  Jeff

                                  The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and filters on both transmit and receive. A deviation meter really is needed to set the proper audio level to the radio. The other thing is what is the S meter reading on receive?

                  73 Bill

                  N9ACQ

                • Jeff - WA4ZKO
                  Alinco DR-235 s are very marginal radios for 9.6k. The ARRL Lab BER testing for them reveals the problem. You can probably pull your PACLEN back to 64 or 32
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                    Alinco DR-235's are very marginal radios for 9.6k. The ARRL Lab BER testing for them reveals the problem.

                    You can probably pull your PACLEN back to 64 or 32 and see a small improvement in terms of retries at a cost of reduced throughput. You might do a bit better with a TNC that uses a true G3RUH modem, but I suspect you are fighting an uphill battle with a marginal radio for 9.6k (regardless of how it's advertised).

                    The DR-235 (and DR-435) rigs are good for 1200 baud, but horrid for 9600 baud. If this is a backbone link (no users) you will do far better just running 1200 baud and opening up the parms (paclen, maxframe, ect).

                    As others have said deviation is important, but unless you are using older or modified radios with "wider" filters you will probably find the 9.6k sweet spot on newer gear is around 2.8KHz peak deviation. Make sure your meter can show/measure peak deviation.


                    73
                    Jeff
                    WA4ZKO
                    "Packet Radio never died, it just evolved."
                    http://twitter.com/wa4zko


                    --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "k1jtc" <jeffrey.t.clark@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Rather than reply to all I will post all replies here. I am running alinco 235. I have 2 radios sitting in the same room. From what I understand the KPC 9612 only supports 9600 baud on the com port so that is the highest speed to go to the computer. Am I wrong? S meter readings are full scale in the room as well as when I try across the city. The radios are identical except the one that is not hooked to the bbs has the internal tnc option.
                    >
                    > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "N9ACQ" <n9acq@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Jeff
                    > >
                    > > The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should
                    > > be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and filters
                    > > on both transmit and receive. A deviation meter really is needed to set the
                    > > proper audio level to the radio. The other thing is what is the S meter
                    > > reading on receive?
                    > >
                    > > 73 Bill
                    > >
                    > > N9ACQ
                    > >
                    >
                  • k1jtc
                    What rig or rigs are people using for 9600 packet?
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                      What rig or rigs are people using for 9600 packet?

                      --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff - WA4ZKO" <wa4zko@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Alinco DR-235's are very marginal radios for 9.6k. The ARRL Lab BER testing for them reveals the problem.
                      >
                      > You can probably pull your PACLEN back to 64 or 32 and see a small improvement in terms of retries at a cost of reduced throughput. You might do a bit better with a TNC that uses a true G3RUH modem, but I suspect you are fighting an uphill battle with a marginal radio for 9.6k (regardless of how it's advertised).
                      >
                      > The DR-235 (and DR-435) rigs are good for 1200 baud, but horrid for 9600 baud. If this is a backbone link (no users) you will do far better just running 1200 baud and opening up the parms (paclen, maxframe, ect).
                      >
                      > As others have said deviation is important, but unless you are using older or modified radios with "wider" filters you will probably find the 9.6k sweet spot on newer gear is around 2.8KHz peak deviation. Make sure your meter can show/measure peak deviation.
                      >
                      >
                      > 73
                      > Jeff
                      > WA4ZKO
                      > "Packet Radio never died, it just evolved."
                      > http://twitter.com/wa4zko
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "k1jtc" <jeffrey.t.clark@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Rather than reply to all I will post all replies here. I am running alinco 235. I have 2 radios sitting in the same room. From what I understand the KPC 9612 only supports 9600 baud on the com port so that is the highest speed to go to the computer. Am I wrong? S meter readings are full scale in the room as well as when I try across the city. The radios are identical except the one that is not hooked to the bbs has the internal tnc option.
                      > >
                      > > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "N9ACQ" <n9acq@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Jeff
                      > > >
                      > > > The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should
                      > > > be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and filters
                      > > > on both transmit and receive. A deviation meter really is needed to set the
                      > > > proper audio level to the radio. The other thing is what is the S meter
                      > > > reading on receive?
                      > > >
                      > > > 73 Bill
                      > > >
                      > > > N9ACQ
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • N9ACQ
                      Jeff No problems with the following Kenwood mobile units, G-707, V-7, V71, D700 and D710. I am sure that many others are also usable at 9600 but I am not
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                        Jeff

                                        No problems with the following Kenwood mobile units, G-707, V-7, V71, D700 and D710. I am sure that many others are also usable at 9600 but I am not familiar with them.

                        73 Bill

                        N9ACQ

                      • Mike
                        I use a Kantronics 9612 with a 19200 Baud serial link, the serial link must be Higher then the Radio speed. I modified a Motorola Syntor UHF 55 watt radio for
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                          I use a Kantronics 9612 with a 19200 Baud serial link, the serial link
                          must be
                          Higher then the Radio speed.

                          I modified a Motorola Syntor UHF 55 watt radio for 9600 BUAD
                          Paclen 236, Maxframe 2, Frack 3000, response 1000, TXD 150

                          Many radios that claim to be 9600 BUAD have a very slow turn around time
                          TX/RX many are higher then 300ms Alinco happens to be one of those
                          radios

                          The only radio I have seen with a good turn around time is the Kenwood
                          2K
                          It is always good idea to look at the ARRL test specs.

                          The data cable usually has one connection for 1200 Baud and 1 for 9600
                          Baud,
                          As well as the radio settings, the radio needs to have a very flat
                          response
                          For FSK transmission, do not use the Mic plug as a FSK connection
                          It will never work.

                          Hope this is some help.

                          73

                          Mike N9PMO
                          BPQ32 Group Moderator
                          www.n9pmo.com
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          k1jtc
                          Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:30 PM
                          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [BPQ32] Re: 9600 baud packet instability

                           
                          What rig or rigs are people using for 9600 packet?

                          --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff - WA4ZKO" <wa4zko@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Alinco DR-235's are very marginal radios for 9.6k. The ARRL Lab BER
                          testing for them reveals the problem.
                          >
                          > You can probably pull your PACLEN back to 64 or 32 and see a small
                          improvement in terms of retries at a cost of reduced throughput. You
                          might do a bit better with a TNC that uses a true G3RUH modem, but I
                          suspect you are fighting an uphill battle with a marginal radio for 9.6k
                          (regardless of how it's advertised).
                          >
                          > The DR-235 (and DR-435) rigs are good for 1200 baud, but horrid for
                          9600 baud. If this is a backbone link (no users) you will do far better
                          just running 1200 baud and opening up the parms (paclen, maxframe, ect).
                          >
                          > As others have said deviation is important, but unless you are using
                          older or modified radios with "wider" filters you will probably find the
                          9.6k sweet spot on newer gear is around 2.8KHz peak deviation. Make sure
                          your meter can show/measure peak deviation.
                          >
                          >
                          > 73
                          > Jeff
                          > WA4ZKO
                          > "Packet Radio never died, it just evolved."
                          > http://twitter.com/wa4zko
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "k1jtc" <jeffrey.t.clark@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Rather than reply to all I will post all replies here. I am running
                          alinco 235. I have 2 radios sitting in the same room. From what I
                          understand the KPC 9612 only supports 9600 baud on the com port so that
                          is the highest speed to go to the computer. Am I wrong? S meter readings
                          are full scale in the room as well as when I try across the city. The
                          radios are identical except the one that is not hooked to the bbs has
                          the internal tnc option.
                          > >
                          > > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "N9ACQ" <n9acq@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Jeff
                          > > >
                          > > > The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should
                          > > > be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and
                          filters
                          > > > on both transmit and receive. A deviation meter really is needed
                          to set the
                          > > > proper audio level to the radio. The other thing is what is the S
                          meter
                          > > > reading on receive?
                          > > >
                          > > > 73 Bill
                          > > >
                          > > > N9ACQ
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • N9ACQ
                          Mike Mic plugs work for 1200. I used a TR-7930 for years that way. One suggestion for TNC connections to 6 pin mini-din. Use the 9600 baud pin and set radio
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                            Mike

                                            Mic plugs work for 1200. I used a TR-7930 for years that way.  One suggestion for TNC connections to 6 pin mini-din. Use the 9600 baud pin and set radio t0 9600 capability. Then radio is useable for either 1200 or 9600 without changes.

                            73 Bill

                            N9ACQ

                          • Mike
                            Yes the Mic. Plus will work for AFSK, but not FSK (9600 Baud) Mike N9PMO www.n9pmo.com ... From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                              Yes the Mic. Plus will work for AFSK, but not FSK (9600 Baud)

                              Mike N9PMO
                              www.n9pmo.com
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              N9ACQ
                              Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:15 PM
                              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: 9600 baud packet instability

                               
                              Mike
                                              Mic plugs work for 1200. I used a TR-7930 for years that
                              way.  One suggestion for TNC connections to 6 pin mini-din. Use the 9600
                              baud pin and set radio t0 9600 capability. Then radio is useable for
                              either 1200 or 9600 without changes.
                              73 Bill
                              N9ACQ
                            • Bob Unger
                              Jerry, I am gloing to put some jupdates to this and get it back to you asap.  hope it works better.... 73 de Bob ________________________________ From: Jerry
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                                Jerry, I am gloing to put some jupdates to this and get it back to you asap.  hope it works better....
                                 
                                73 de Bob

                                From: Jerry <n9lya@...>
                                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:39 PM
                                Subject: RE: [BPQ32] 9600 baud packet instability
                                 
                                Ill look yours over more in morning… But here are mine I use a KPC9612 as well mine feeds an Icom 38A
                                 
                                Have you adjusted your TX audio and equalization in the TNC…??? 73 Jerry N9LYA
                                 
                                PORT                                     ; 220 Meter Emcom FREQ.
                                PORTNUM=9                    ; Optional but sets port number if stated
                                ID=9600 223.600 MHz    ; Displayed by PORTS command
                                TYPE=ASYNC                     ; Port is RS232 Com
                                PROTOCOL=KISS                             ; TNC is used in KISS mode
                                FULLDUP=0                       ; Only meaningful for KISS devices
                                IOADDR=C                         ; 1 = SERIAL PORT COM1 ETC.
                                SPEED=9600                      ; RS232 COM PORT SPEED
                                CHANNEL=B                      ; A for single channel TNC, A or B for multichannel
                                PERSIST=64                        ; PERSIST=256/(# of transmitters-1)
                                SLOTTIME=100                 ; CMSA interval timer in milliseconds
                                TXDELAY=300                    ; Transmit keyup delay in milliseconds
                                TXTAIL=0                            ; TX key down, in milliseconds, at packet end;
                                QUALITY=192                    ; Quality factor applied to node broadcasts heard on
                                                                                ; this port, unless overridden by a locked route
                                                                                ; entry. Setting to 0 stops node broadcasts
                                MINQUAL=95                   ; Entries in the nodes table with qualities greater or
                                                                                ; equal to MINQUAL will be sent on this port. A value
                                                                                ; of 0 sends everything.
                                MAXFRAME=2                 ; Max outstanding frames (1 thru 7)
                                FRACK=5000                      ; Level 2 timout in milliseconds
                                RESPTIME=1000                               ; Level 2 delayed ack timer in milliseconds
                                RETRIES=10                        ; Level 2 maximum retry value
                                PACLEN=236                     ; Default max packet length for this port
                                UNPROTO=Nodes:                         ; BTEXT broadcast addrs format: DEST[,digi1[,digi2]]
                                BCALL=n9lya-7                 ; BTEXT call. unstated defaults to APPL1CALL
                                L3ONLY=0                           ; 1=No user downlink connects on this port
                                DIGIFLAG=1                      ; Digipeat: 0=OFF, 1=ALL, 255=UI Only
                                DIGIPORT=0                      ; Port on which to send digi'd frames (0 = same port)
                                USERS=0                             ; Maximum number of L2 sessions, 0 = no limit
                                WL2KREPORT PUBLIC, http://www.winlink.org/, 8778, K9BBS-10, EM68SR, 00-23, 223600000, PKT9600, 65, 35, 5, 0
                                ENDPORT
                                 
                                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of k1jtc
                                Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:32 PM
                                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [BPQ32] 9600 baud packet instability
                                 
                                 
                                We are having problems with consistent connects using outpost. When using hyperterminal it connects better but still retries muliple times. Below are the settings that I have in the config file. I am using a kantronics 9612. Any suggestions to make it more stable would be greatly appreciated.

                                PORT
                                PORTNUM=1 ; Optional but sets port number if stated
                                ID=BBS 223.520 MHz ; Displayed by PORTS command
                                TYPE=ASYNC ; Port is RS232 Com
                                PROTOCOL=KISS ; TNC is used in KISS (or JKISS) mode
                                ; See ..\RelatedFiles\KissRoms\KissRoms.zip.
                                FULLDUP=0 ; Only meaningful for KISS (or JKISS) devices
                                IOADDR=1 ; 1 = SERIAL PORT COM1 ETC.
                                SPEED=9600 ; RS232 COM PORT SPEED
                                CHANNEL=B ; A for single channel TNC, A or B for multichannel
                                PERSIST=64 ; PERSIST=256/(# of transmitters-1)
                                SLOTTIME=50 ; CMSA interval timer in milliseconds
                                TXDELAY=300 ; Transmit keyup delay in milliseconds
                                TXTAIL=30 ; TX key down, in milliseconds, at packet end
                                QUALITY=125 ; Quality factor applied to node broadcasts heard on
                                ; this port, unless overridden by a locked route
                                ; entry. Setting to 0 stops node broadcasts
                                MINQUAL=0 ; Entries in the nodes table with qualities greater or
                                ; equal to MINQUAL will be sent on this port. A value
                                ; of 0 sends everything.
                                MAXFRAME=4 ; Max outstanding frames (1 thru 7)
                                FRACK=5000 ; Level 2 timout in milliseconds
                                RESPTIME=1000 ; Level 2 delayed ack timer in milliseconds
                                RETRIES=5 ; Level 2 maximum retry value
                                PACLEN=125 ; Default max packet length for this port
                                UNPROTO=ANTBBS ; BTEXT broadcast addrs format: DEST[,digi1[,digi2]]
                                BCALL=K1JTC-10 ; BTEXT call. unstated defaults to APPL1CALL
                                L3ONLY=0 ; 1=No user downlink connects on this port
                                DIGIFLAG=1 ; Digipeat: 0=OFF, 1=ALL, 255=UI Only
                                DIGIPORT=0 ; Port on which to send digi'd frames (0 = same port)
                                USERS=0 ; Maximum number of L2 sessions, 0 = no limit
                                ENDPORT
                              • k1jtc
                                Anyone try using the Yaesu ftm-350ar rig for 9600 baud?
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 15, 2012
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                                  Anyone try using the Yaesu ftm-350ar rig for 9600 baud?

                                  --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mmelnik1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yes the Mic. Plus will work for AFSK, but not FSK (9600 Baud)
                                  >
                                  > Mike N9PMO
                                  > www.n9pmo.com
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                  > N9ACQ
                                  > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:15 PM
                                  > To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: 9600 baud packet instability
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Mike
                                  >                 Mic plugs work for 1200. I used a TR-7930 for years that
                                  > way.  One suggestion for TNC connections to 6 pin mini-din. Use the 9600
                                  > baud pin and set radio t0 9600 capability. Then radio is useable for
                                  > either 1200 or 9600 without changes.
                                  > 73 Bill
                                  > N9ACQ
                                  >
                                • Rick Nicholson
                                  I agree totally, I ve had the Dr235t in operation for a year and found its performance on 9.6k nominal and unreliable as a backbone, During heavy use the
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                    I agree totally, I've had the Dr235t in operation for a year and found its performance on 9.6k nominal and unreliable as a backbone, 
                                    During heavy use the dr235t will distort the packets to the points they cannot be decoded even at short distances. 



                                    I've found that the Tait  8105 a much better choice for a backbone transceiver. 
                                    Ive been using the Tait's  for repeater linking and remote voter sites for several years, after months of testing numerous commercial brands the Tait out performs them all and we will be changing out the Dr235t for the Tait after the first of the year. 
                                     
                                    I'm hoping others in Indiana will realize the issues with the Dr235t and standardize with the Tait for the 220 backbone.

                                    Rick/ n9umj



                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                    On Nov 15, 2012, at 8:17 AM, "Jeff - WA4ZKO" <wa4zko@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Alinco DR-235's are very marginal radios for 9.6k. The ARRL Lab BER testing for them reveals the problem.

                                    You can probably pull your PACLEN back to 64 or 32 and see a small improvement in terms of retries at a cost of reduced throughput. You might do a bit better with a TNC that uses a true G3RUH modem, but I suspect you are fighting an uphill battle with a marginal radio for 9.6k (regardless of how it's advertised).

                                    The DR-235 (and DR-435) rigs are good for 1200 baud, but horrid for 9600 baud. If this is a backbone link (no users) you will do far better just running 1200 baud and opening up the parms (paclen, maxframe, ect).

                                    As others have said deviation is important, but unless you are using older or modified radios with "wider" filters you will probably find the 9.6k sweet spot on newer gear is around 2.8KHz peak deviation. Make sure your meter can show/measure peak deviation.

                                    73
                                    Jeff
                                    WA4ZKO
                                    "Packet Radio never died, it just evolved."
                                    http://twitter.com/wa4zko

                                    --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "k1jtc" <jeffrey.t.clark@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Rather than reply to all I will post all replies here. I am running alinco 235. I have 2 radios sitting in the same room. From what I understand the KPC 9612 only supports 9600 baud on the com port so that is the highest speed to go to the computer. Am I wrong? S meter readings are full scale in the room as well as when I try across the city. The radios are identical except the one that is not hooked to the bbs has the internal tnc option.
                                    >
                                    > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "N9ACQ" <n9acq@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Jeff
                                    > >
                                    > > The biggest problem with 9600 is deviation. Both ends should
                                    > > be around 3 Khz. 9600 also need to bypass all audio amplifiers and filters
                                    > > on both transmit and receive. A deviation meter really is needed to set the
                                    > > proper audio level to the radio. The other thing is what is the S meter
                                    > > reading on receive?
                                    > >
                                    > > 73 Bill
                                    > >
                                    > > N9ACQ
                                    > >
                                    >

                                  • Bill Vodall
                                    ... Is that with the built in 9k6 TNC or a good external TNC like the PK96? Thanks, Bill - WA7NWP
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                      > I agree totally, I've had the Dr235t in operation for a year and found its
                                      > performance on 9.6k nominal and unreliable as a backbone,
                                      > During heavy use the dr235t will distort the packets to the points they
                                      > cannot be decoded even at short distances.

                                      Is that with the built in 9k6 TNC or a "good" external TNC like the PK96?

                                      Thanks,
                                      Bill - WA7NWP
                                    • Jeff - WA4ZKO
                                      My experience is the modem in the PK-96 and the 9612 TNCs perform the same. Neither are true G3RUH modems, but both work well with a good 9.6k radio. Best TNC
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                        My experience is the modem in the PK-96 and the 9612 TNCs perform the same. Neither are true G3RUH modems, but both work well with a good 9.6k radio.

                                        Best TNC in the world can't make up for BER specs like these, especially when you start off listening to a TX BER that bad.
                                        (DR-235 BER data per ARRL Lab results)

                                        Receiver:
                                        BER at 12-dB SINAD, 3.8×10–3
                                        BER at 16 dB SINAD, 1.4×10–4
                                        BER at –50 dBm, 2.4×10–5
                                        transmitter:
                                        BER at 12-dB SINAD + 30 dB, 3.4×10–4

                                        Pretty decent TXDelay, but the RX/TX BER is the problem.

                                        Good to know there's a usable commercial "off-the-shelf 220 radio out there with the Tait rigs.

                                        Be nice if the ARRL would get back to publishing BER Test data on the newer rigs. Then maybe crack down on manufacturers advertising rigs as "9600 ready" if they don't meet a minimal BER spec.


                                        73
                                        Jeff
                                        WA4ZKO
                                        "Packet Radio never died, it just evolved."
                                        http://twitter.com/wa4zko

                                        --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > I agree totally, I've had the Dr235t in operation for a year and found its
                                        > > performance on 9.6k nominal and unreliable as a backbone,
                                        > > During heavy use the dr235t will distort the packets to the points they
                                        > > cannot be decoded even at short distances.
                                        >
                                        > Is that with the built in 9k6 TNC or a "good" external TNC like the PK96?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Bill - WA7NWP
                                        >
                                      • Bill Vodall
                                        ... What numbers would a good radio have? 1x10-6? Thanks, Bill
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                          > (DR-235 BER data per ARRL Lab results)
                                          >
                                          > Receiver:
                                          > BER at 12-dB SINAD, 3.8×10–3
                                          > BER at 16 dB SINAD, 1.4×10–4
                                          > BER at –50 dBm, 2.4×10–5
                                          > transmitter:
                                          > BER at 12-dB SINAD + 30 dB, 3.4×10–4

                                          What numbers would a good radio have? 1x10-6?

                                          Thanks,
                                          Bill
                                        • PE1RDW
                                          ... probably 0 but the only radio I ever found that has that is a converted analog cell phone like nokia morbia -- 73 Andre PE1RDW
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                            On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:15:32 +0100, Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...> wrote:

                                            >> (DR-235 BER data per ARRL Lab results)
                                            >>
                                            >> Receiver:
                                            >> BER at 12-dB SINAD, 3.8×10–3
                                            >> BER at 16 dB SINAD, 1.4×10–4
                                            >> BER at –50 dBm, 2.4×10–5
                                            >> transmitter:
                                            >> BER at 12-dB SINAD + 30 dB, 3.4×10–4
                                            >
                                            > What numbers would a good radio have? 1x10-6?
                                            >
                                            > Thanks,
                                            > Bill
                                            >
                                            probably 0 but the only radio I ever found that has that is a converted
                                            analog cell phone like nokia morbia

                                            --
                                            73 Andre PE1RDW
                                          • Jeff - WA4ZKO
                                            1.0x10-5 (or better) is good benchmark to look for on the RX BER at –50 dBm test and the TX BER at 12-dB SINAD+30 dB test. If a radio can t perform well at
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                              1.0x10-5 (or better) is good benchmark to look for on the RX BER at –50 dBm test and the TX "BER at 12-dB SINAD+30 dB" test. If a radio can't perform well at those levels then good luck with it on the 9.6k airwaves.

                                              http://wx4j.com/Radio-TNC9600bInfoC.htm

                                              A really good article by KE3Z in the May 1995 QST goes into BER testing details and what makes a good 9600 baud radio (or not). Unfortunately I don't think it's openly available on the internet.
                                              I might check to see if the ARRL would allow me to PDF it and post it publicly if there is enough interest.


                                              73
                                              Jeff
                                              WA4ZKO
                                              "Packet Radio never died, it just evolved."
                                              http://twitter.com/wa4zko

                                              --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > (DR-235 BER data per ARRL Lab results)
                                              > >
                                              > > Receiver:
                                              > > BER at 12-dB SINAD, 3.8×10–3
                                              > > BER at 16 dB SINAD, 1.4×10–4
                                              > > BER at –50 dBm, 2.4×10–5
                                              > > transmitter:
                                              > > BER at 12-dB SINAD + 30 dB, 3.4×10–4
                                              >
                                              > What numbers would a good radio have? 1x10-6?
                                              >
                                              > Thanks,
                                              > Bill
                                              >
                                            • Bill Vodall
                                              Thank you Jeff.. That s good info to keep on had. Bill
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                                Thank you Jeff.. That's good info to keep on had.

                                                Bill

                                                > 1.0x10-5 (or better) is good benchmark to look for on the RX BER at –50
                                                > dBm test and the TX "BER at 12-dB SINAD+30 dB" test. If a radio can't
                                                > perform well at those levels then good luck with it on the 9.6k airwaves.
                                                >
                                                > http://wx4j.com/Radio-TNC9600bInfoC.htm
                                              • Rick Nicholson
                                                That was with a Kantronics KPC-9612 and on a Timewave DSP-232USB. Rick/n9umj Sent from my iPhone
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Nov 16, 2012
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                                                  That was with a Kantronics KPC-9612 and on a Timewave DSP-232USB. 

                                                  Rick/n9umj


                                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                                  On Nov 16, 2012, at 11:31 AM, Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@...> wrote:

                                                   

                                                  > I agree totally, I've had the Dr235t in operation for a year and found its
                                                  > performance on 9.6k nominal and unreliable as a backbone,
                                                  > During heavy use the dr235t will distort the packets to the points they
                                                  > cannot be decoded even at short distances.

                                                  Is that with the built in 9k6 TNC or a "good" external TNC like the PK96?

                                                  Thanks,
                                                  Bill - WA7NWP

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