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How do you use BPQ?

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  • n5mdt
    Our regional EmComm group will be conducting an annual test in a few months and I am still at a loss to discover all the practical uses for BPQ in an EmComm
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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      Our regional EmComm group will be conducting an annual test in a few months and I am still at a loss to discover all the practical uses for BPQ in an EmComm situation.

      This exercise will be RF only. No internet allowed, which we all know really does not affect BPQ at all.

      But, I need to expand my field of knowledge of how BPQ could be used in a no internet emergency communications situation.

      Anything from using the chat to relaying messages.

      That brings up a question. Using BPQ Chat I could see where a group could get together for a roundtable session, but only one at a time could connect on Pactor. I need for 10 to get into chat over HF links. I just don't see how it can be done unless they all had chat nodes. I would be the only one participating with BPQ.

      Anyway, I appreciate all of your ideas.


      73
      Mark


      n5mdt@n5mdt.#setx.tx.usa.noam
      MAP N5MDT-13 N5MDT.HAM-RADIO-OP.NET UDP 10093 B
    • n5mdt
      Edited to add: This is a simulation of a global internet loss. Not just a regional loss of internet. 73 Mark
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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        Edited to add: This is a simulation of a global internet loss. Not just a regional loss of internet.


        73
        Mark
      • N9ACQ
        Mark Just use HF SSB. BPQ is the wrong tool for the intended job. 73 Bill N9ACQ
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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          Mark

                          Just use HF SSB. BPQ is the wrong tool for the intended job.

          73 Bill

          N9ACQ

        • Jerry
          Bill Please explain your statement.. I do not buy your statement as valid. Why is BPQ32 the wrong tool. It can do as much or as little as he wishes.. And DOES
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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            Bill Please explain your statement.. I do not buy your statement as valid.

             

            Why is BPQ32 the wrong tool… It can do as much or as little as he wishes.. And DOES not depend on the internet if it is not working.. What he is asking for is possible. With some planning. Growing of the network and clear end goal in mind.

             

            There must be infrastructure in place to handle the RF true.. And unfortunately a lot of that infrastructure is missing in some locations due to various reasons over the last two decades..

             

            1)      A drop in interest in packet. For various reasons.

            2)      The internet drawing people away from the use of Packet RADIO and causing a mass disinterest in packet. That is now seeing regrowth..

            3)      Etc etc you hard the story I am sure..

            4)       

            Mark your test may very well prove your area is either ready or not ready for Comms without the internet. From that test do not be discouraged. Look at what areas need coverage and get systems in place to provide coverage..

             

            Set up VHF UHF and even HF stations to help provide coverage..

             

            But to just us HF SSB who you going to talk to if you are trying to cover a large area.. You need participation, that provides that coverage.. HF is always open to Band conditions VHF UHF to who is where .. But between them you can build a network that can work without the internet.

             

            Here in Indiana.. the IDHLS has two drills each year part of that test is to test packet.. We have grown in coverage. We do not yet have a complete solution either.. but we continually grow towards that goal.

             

            I recommend for BBS Sysops.. BPQ32

            For Users Outpost packet…

             

            73 Jerry N9LYA

             

            From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N9ACQ
            Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:59 PM
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [BPQ32] How do you use BPQ?

             

             

            Mark

                            Just use HF SSB. BPQ is the wrong tool for the intended job.

            73 Bill

            N9ACQ

          • N9ACQ
            Mark What else are they considering down; Power stations, phone systems, cell phones, trunked radio systems, LANs, water lines, natural gas lines, may be
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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              Mark

                              What else are they considering down; Power stations, phone systems, cell phones, trunked radio systems, LANs, water lines, natural gas lines, may be affected. In short any device with a routable TCP/IP address will be toast. Just identifying the devices may take some time. This may also cause many LANS to come down, depending on how they were designed and implemented. Personally I think someone has been reading/watching to mush science fiction or disaster dramas.

              73 Bill

              N9ACQ

            • Mike Melnik
              Bill I agree with you 100% 73 Mike-N9PMO Web www.n9pmo.com ... From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N9ACQ Sent: Saturday,
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                Bill

                I agree with you 100%

                73

                Mike-N9PMO
                Web www.n9pmo.com

                -----Original Message-----
                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                N9ACQ
                Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:37 PM
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: How do you use BPQ?





                Mark
                What else are they considering down; Power stations,
                phone systems, cell phones, trunked radio systems, LANs, water lines,
                natural gas lines, may be affected. In short any device with a routable
                TCP/IP address will be toast. Just identifying the devices may take some
                time. This may also cause many LANS to come down, depending on how they
                were designed and implemented. Personally I think someone has been
                reading/watching to mush science fiction or disaster dramas.
                73 Bill
                N9ACQ
              • Joel Yates
                OK, So...why is the FCC going to use some internet for the new EAS system that will be coming out soon. ...Joel N4JOA Joel Yates yate4899@gmail.com
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                  OK, So...why is the FCC going to use some internet for the new EAS system that will be coming out soon.
                  ...Joel N4JOA
                  Joel Yates
                  yate4899@...


                  On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Mike Melnik <mmelnik1@...> wrote:
                  Bill

                  I agree with you 100%

                  73

                  Mike-N9PMO
                  Web www.n9pmo.com

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  N9ACQ
                  Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:37 PM
                  To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: How do you use BPQ?





                  Mark
                                 What else are they considering down; Power stations,
                  phone systems, cell phones, trunked radio systems, LANs, water lines,
                  natural gas lines, may be affected. In short any device with a routable
                  TCP/IP address will be toast. Just identifying the devices may take some
                  time. This may also cause many LANS to come down, depending on how they
                  were designed and implemented. Personally I think someone has been
                  reading/watching to mush science fiction or disaster dramas.
                  73 Bill
                  N9ACQ








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                • Jerry
                  Because they forget what happened on 911. From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Yates Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                    Because they forget what happened on 911…

                     

                    From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joel Yates
                    Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 8:49 PM
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Re: How do you use BPQ?

                     

                     

                    OK, So...why is the FCC going to use some internet for the new EAS system that will be coming out soon.
                    ...Joel N4JOA
                    Joel Yates
                    yate4899@...

                    On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Mike Melnik <mmelnik1@...> wrote:

                    Bill

                    I agree with you 100%

                    73

                    Mike-N9PMO
                    Web www.n9pmo.com

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    N9ACQ
                    Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:37 PM
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: How do you use BPQ?





                    Mark
                                   What else are they considering down; Power stations,
                    phone systems, cell phones, trunked radio systems, LANs, water lines,
                    natural gas lines, may be affected. In short any device with a routable
                    TCP/IP address will be toast. Just identifying the devices may take some
                    time. This may also cause many LANS to come down, depending on how they
                    were designed and implemented. Personally I think someone has been
                    reading/watching to mush science fiction or disaster dramas.
                    73 Bill
                    N9ACQ








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                  • N9ACQ
                    Jerry One is your requirement for HF. I know of only one protocol that allows multiple connects, is use by Amateur Radio. That is packet at 300- baud. This has
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                      Jerry

                                      One is your requirement for HF. I know of only one protocol that allows multiple connects, is use by Amateur Radio. That is packet at 300- baud. This has not been noted for speed with the reliability required for chat mode operations. In addition propagation delay via NVIS will also cause problems in the smooth exchange between stations. Then consider the atmospheric noise situation with unsquelched radios. I would suggest you try this with just a few, three, stations and see what the n results are. Some TNCs will operate at 300 or 200 baud and can be used with BPQ.  Have you asked yourself why no digital nets are held in HF?

                      73 Bill

                      N9ACQ

                    • Randy
                      they have been using phone lines for years for the EAS . they have transmitters all over the place, Randy ... From: Joel Yates To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                        they have been using phone lines for years for the EAS .
                         
                        they have transmitters all over the place,
                        Randy
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:49 PM
                        Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Re: How do you use BPQ?

                         

                        OK, So...why is the FCC going to use some internet for the new EAS system that will be coming out soon.
                        ...Joel N4JOA
                        Joel Yates
                        yate4899@...


                        On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Mike Melnik <mmelnik1@...> wrote:
                        Bill

                        I agree with you 100%

                        73

                        Mike-N9PMO
                        Web www.n9pmo.com

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        N9ACQ
                        Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:37 PM
                        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: How do you use BPQ?





                        Mark
                                       What else are they considering down; Power stations,
                        phone systems, cell phones, trunked radio systems, LANs, water lines,
                        natural gas lines, may be affected. In short any device with a routable
                        TCP/IP address will be toast. Just identifying the devices may take some
                        time. This may also cause many LANS to come down, depending on how they
                        were designed and implemented. Personally I think someone has been
                        reading/watching to mush science fiction or disaster dramas.
                        73 Bill
                        N9ACQ








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                      • N9ACQ
                        Jerry On 9/11 the internet did not go down worldwide. NY city lost communications because most of their systems were located on the towers, without any backup
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                          Jerry

                                          On 9/11 the internet did not go down worldwide. NY city lost communications because most of their systems were located on the towers, without any backup capability. Yes there was a tremendous loss of life but it was confined to a relative small area. Tornados have a greater destruction area, let alone hurricanes.

                                          The internet is not one monolithic structure that can be brought down with ease. It has many nodes, like the packet networks, and multiple routes between nodes. In addition not all nodes use the same operating system, or level of a specific operating system. So attacks would need to be launched for 5 – 10 different operating systems, and each level of the operating systems. I think the first, and set the tone, was the movie WAR GAMES.  Obviously the writer had no idea how the government secures their critical networks. Let alone the interconnections between then, which might or might not exist.

                          73 Bill

                          N9ACQ

                        • Jerry
                          Bill, I personally still do not see and never will, why anyone would have had to marry RF with the internet.. End of my statement regarding that.. It s done I
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                            Bill,

                            I personally still do not see and never will, why anyone would have had to marry RF with the internet.. End of my statement regarding that.. It’s done I do it too…  Just wish it never happened….

                             

                            I was more in line with my comments regarding relaying of messages.. Over RF when phones and inet maybe down locally or globally..  More so than a CHAT round table.. I find it hard to visualize anyone would have time to establish a CHAT Round table in times of emergencies.. regardless of connection options.. But I may just not understand Marks idea on that well enough..  I do know with RF over VHF you could have a fairly adequate CHAT round table.. in the Days of MSYS we used to chat on MSYS Converse Mode on HF .. Not bad.. I would consider it slow compared to internet but it was doable.. If nothing else works and HF does it for you why the heck not… If you lose your hammer and need to drive a nail, I am sure you would go for a wrench, crowbar or even a 2x4.. Not the best choice but could get the job done.

                             

                            Yes HF is imperfect to naysayers.  but from experience I can get a message from here to say Indy in one hope at 300 baud packet on one of three HF bands 30 40 80 30 most of day 80 most of Night and 40 most of the other time.. As well as by VHF … Without touching the Network called the Internet. 

                             

                            I realize he specifically stated HF but with a little planning power backup and such he can have a network that works well with HF/VHF/UHF  and  the internet or works well without the internet.. For times when the internet may be down..

                             

                            Of course all this is moot if the President decides to shut down:

                             

                            Ham Radio like they did in WWII

                             

                            Or The internet as he  can do with the flip of a switch..

                             

                            And yes even the GPS Satellites … by his command.

                             

                            If our next disaster should be WWIII  or he gets his panties in a knot.

                             

                             

                            Must plan for the worst and hope nothing happens..

                             

                             

                            Hey to change the subject.. Slightly off topic, but could affect Mobile BPQ32 Packet Ops (how’s that for keeping it on topic)..and their GO KITS.. as well as anyone else with a Ham Radio in their vehicle,  I heard in Illinois something about a law that would / could ban all mobile Ham Ops.. Is this something to take serious.. Sounds like more silly politics with paranoia or hyperbole which is it anyone know.

                             

                            Please correct me where I may have miss understood points of contention.. It late for me and I been working since Friday 3 am  till this afternoon with no nap, just occasional breaks to run home for food... lol Lost three motors,  200 400 and a  1250 HP motor at work within 6 hours.. (power dips) lots of work. No intention of offending anyone..

                             

                            I do have a differing opinion then most here as to the viability of HF 300 Baud Packet.. It works for me.. I like it…

                             

                            73 Jerry N9LYA

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N9ACQ
                            Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:59 PM
                            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [BPQ32] How do you use BPQ?

                             

                             

                            Mark

                                            Just use HF SSB. BPQ is the wrong tool for the intended job.

                            73 Bill

                            N9ACQ

                          • Jerry
                            Hi Bill no it did not.. You are correct.. But I was in Bloomington Indiana that day and they lost all comms via Phone lines pay and otherwise, and cellphones
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                              Hi Bill no it did not.. You are correct.. But I was in Bloomington Indiana that day and they lost all comms via Phone lines pay and otherwise, and cellphones for most of the day.. And yes that meant no internet.. Systems all over the country were also affected to some degree.. Not just in NY.. Mostly here was claimed overload due to  every tom dick and Harriet calling their mother brother sister uncle and cousin to tell them what happened.. Payphones.. “All circuits are busy” Cellphones “all circuits are busy” (first time I ever heard that on a cellphone.  Laptop in lobby of hotel.. No internet.. could not get to anywhere.. Too slow timed out often… Was the story in most places.. May not have been like that everywhere.. Maybe today they have better infrastructure to handle such an event.. I would hope..  To say the internet will or will not be affected by the NEXT disaster is really hard to say..

                               

                              I understand the Internet is a huge conglomeration of systems. I do believe it would be difficult to harm the internet intentionally, could happen with the right plan.. But today there are many more people using many more CONNECTED devices then on 911.. Overload I am sure is still a viable simple way to shut it out, if OFF is the wrong word…

                               

                              Thanks Bob… Pleasure conversing…

                               

                               

                               

                              73 jerry n9lya

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N9ACQ
                              Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:28 PM
                              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: How do you use BPQ?

                               

                               

                              Jerry

                                              On 9/11 the internet did not go down worldwide. NY city lost communications because most of their systems were located on the towers, without any backup capability. Yes there was a tremendous loss of life but it was confined to a relative small area. Tornados have a greater destruction area, let alone hurricanes.

                                              The internet is not one monolithic structure that can be brought down with ease. It has many nodes, like the packet networks, and multiple routes between nodes. In addition not all nodes use the same operating system, or level of a specific operating system. So attacks would need to be launched for 5 – 10 different operating systems, and each level of the operating systems. I think the first, and set the tone, was the movie WAR GAMES.  Obviously the writer had no idea how the government secures their critical networks. Let alone the interconnections between then, which might or might not exist.

                              73 Bill

                              N9ACQ

                            • D R Mynatt
                              A chat round table is really a speaker system at all points. We used it a lot in the military to keep co-located Ops Centers connected without having to do a
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                                A chat round table is really a speaker system at all points.  We used it a lot in the military to keep co-located Ops Centers connected without having to do a connection each time we wanted to send a 20 sec verbal message.
                                 
                                I think, maybe, comsec will be important until proved not, and using PGP for email may be required.
                                 
                                Does anyone think comsec a non-issue?  Maybe a bridge too far?
                                 
                                My 2c worth.
                                 
                                Dave
                                KA0SWT


                                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
                                Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:38 PM
                                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [BPQ32] How do you use BPQ?

                                Bill,

                                I personally still do not see and never will, why anyone would have had to marry RF with the internet.. End of my statement regarding that.. It’s done I do it too…  Just wish it never happened….

                                 

                                I was more in line with my comments regarding relaying of messages.. Over RF when phones and inet maybe down locally or globally..  More so than a CHAT round table.. I find it hard to visualize anyone would have time to establish a CHAT Round table in times of emergencies.. regardless of connection options.. But I may just not understand Marks idea on that well enough..  I do know with RF over VHF you could have a fairly adequate CHAT round table.. in the Days of MSYS we used to chat on MSYS Converse Mode on HF .. Not bad.. I would consider it slow compared to internet but it was doable.. If nothing else works and HF does it for you why the heck not… If you lose your hammer and need to drive a nail, I am sure you would go for a wrench, crowbar or even a 2x4.. Not the best choice but could get the job done.

                                 

                                Yes HF is imperfect to naysayers.  but from experience I can get a message from here to say Indy in one hope at 300 baud packet on one of three HF bands 30 40 80 30 most of day 80 most of Night and 40 most of the other time.. As well as by VHF … Without touching the Network called the Internet. 

                                 

                                I realize he specifically stated HF but with a little planning power backup and such he can have a network that works well with HF/VHF/UHF  and  the internet or works well without the internet.. For times when the internet may be down..

                                 

                                Of course all this is moot if the President decides to shut down:

                                 

                                Ham Radio like they did in WWII

                                 

                                Or The internet as he  can do with the flip of a switch..

                                 

                                And yes even the GPS Satellites … by his command.

                                 

                                If our next disaster should be WWIII  or he gets his panties in a knot.

                                 

                                 

                                Must plan for the worst and hope nothing happens..

                                 

                                 

                                Hey to change the subject.. Slightly off topic, but could affect Mobile BPQ32 Packet Ops (how’s that for keeping it on topic)..and their GO KITS.. as well as anyone else with a Ham Radio in their vehicle,  I heard in Illinois something about a law that would / could ban all mobile Ham Ops.. Is this something to take serious.. Sounds like more silly politics with paranoia or hyperbole which is it anyone know.

                                 

                                Please correct me where I may have miss understood points of contention.. It late for me and I been working since Friday 3 am  till this afternoon with no nap, just occasional breaks to run home for food... lol Lost three motors,  200 400 and a  1250 HP motor at work within 6 hours.. (power dips) lots of work. No intention of offending anyone..

                                 

                                I do have a differing opinion then most here as to the viability of HF 300 Baud Packet.. It works for me.. I like it…

                                 

                                73 Jerry N9LYA

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N9ACQ
                                Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:59 PM
                                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [BPQ32] How do you use BPQ?

                                 

                                 

                                Mark

                                                Just use HF SSB. BPQ is the wrong tool for the intended job.

                                73 Bill

                                N9ACQ

                              • N9ACQ
                                Jerry The original comment was for chat via HF. My fires response was to that application and current technology available. For message handling the NTSD
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                                  Jerry

                                                  The original comment was for chat via HF. My fires response was to that application and current technology available. For message handling the NTSD system of the ARRL uses the older Winlink Classic which does not require interfacing with the internet. Much like packet BBSs but they use manual intervention for message forwarding. For point to point the NBEMS can utilize  an ARQ protocol wrapped around sound card modes. Or RMS Express in point to point mode via Pactor or WINMOR.

                                                  Ok so the president attempts to shut down the internet. Will this affect my satellite internet service, or can they link visa another ground station within the satellite footprint. I suspect the connection points that lead out of the country could be shut down quickly but all the other service providers may not get the word. It is possible that big brother has a method whereby a command may be issued to shut down all nodes but I have not heard of that specific capability being required.

                                                  I do have a portable system with BPQ including BBS and Chat installed as well as RMS packet/RMS Relay as part of my go kit. I also have many soundcard programs installed as well.

                                   

                                                  Now on the philosophical discussion of radio and internet interconnection. One the rise of E-Mail and need by individuals not connected by wire to the internet, boaters, off the grid, Etc. This makes sense and do not forget there are many, like me, who depend on satellite service for internet and TV service. This was the concept behind Winlink 2000. Use internet when available, with 5 Common message Servers in different parts of the world. At this time there are over 50 Pactor gateway stations and 25 WINMOR gateway stations throughout the world, not counting the hundreds of packet gateway stations. The CMSs act like the old BBSs in that you need to connect to retrieve your messages. Personally I do not see, for me, a need to convert audio to digital and back again. Yes it does allow for wide area nets/conversations via D-Star and EchoLink. This gives conference calling capability to mobile stations. I can see this for organizing the response effort outside a disaster area, without the need for mobile HF capability. Each mode, method and system has a specific niche that it fills. Understanding which communications requirements will beat be meet by digital is a must to use them effectively.

                                  73 Bill

                                  N9ACQ

                                • N9ACQ
                                  Dave I doubt that the use of PGP would be allowed for Amateur radio messages, email type or not. The commercial sector, as well as the government, have greater
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
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                                    Dave

                                                    I doubt that the use of PGP would be allowed for Amateur radio messages, email type or not. The commercial sector, as well as the government, have greater flexibility than the Amateur Radio service for securing our communications. They also have greater financial resources.

                                    73 Bill

                                    N9ACQ

                                  • Charles Brabham
                                    As far as EMCOM goes, the internet is something that you are there to back up - not to depend upon. If the internet is working then amateur radio EMCOM is
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Feb 5, 2012
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                                      As far as EMCOM goes, the internet is something that you are there to back up - not to depend upon.
                                       
                                      If the internet is working then amateur radio EMCOM is largely superfluous, a solution looking for a problem.
                                       
                                      Some amateurs have difficulty understanding this.
                                       
                                      I blame the school system.
                                       
                                      73 DE Charles, N5PVL
                                       
                                    • n5mdt
                                      The way I see it is that EmComm personnel are communicators first, and amateur radio is but one means of communicating. As message handlers we should be
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Feb 5, 2012
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                                        The way I see it is that EmComm personnel are communicators first, and amateur radio is but one means of communicating. As message handlers we should be trained to deliver a message by the best method possible based on priority, security, and availability. If that is the internet then that should be the method chosen. If that if voice, then that should be the method chosen. Etc... If a method is not available then we move to the next available method.

                                        I did mention HF but did not intend to limit the discussion to HF. Again, if the best method is VHF then VHF should be used.

                                        What I am really interested in is all the possible ways that BPQ can benefit us in EmComm. Us being all of South Texas, for instance. Us could mean all of Illinois, or all of Ohio, when those states have similar exercises. Responses here are going to apply to them as well.

                                        What I do not know, with certainty, is what BPQ can do that cannot be done by other means, or where BPQ might fall in the 'best available' method list as I describe above.


                                        73
                                        Mark




                                        --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > As far as EMCOM goes, the internet is something that you are there to back up - not to depend upon.
                                        >
                                        > If the internet is working then amateur radio EMCOM is largely superfluous, a solution looking for a problem.
                                        >
                                        > Some amateurs have difficulty understanding this.
                                        >
                                        > I blame the school system.
                                        >
                                        > 73 DE Charles, N5PVL
                                        >
                                      • DEC
                                        I wish I had a count of the QSO s and messages that have went thru my BBS in the past 20 years at 300b on HF. If I got a penny for each I would be rich. J39BS
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Feb 5, 2012
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                                          I wish I had a count of the QSO's and messages that have went thru my BBS in the past 20 years at 300b on HF. If I got a penny for each I would be rich. J39BS and I did the LAST solar cycle on 10 every day and got 200-300 a day thru!

                                          Yes, it works....

                                          73 Dave
                                          n4zkf




                                          On Feb 4, 2012, at 9:37 PM, "Jerry" <n9lya@...> wrote:

                                           

                                          Bill,

                                          I personally still do not see and never will, why anyone would have had to marry RF with the internet.. End of my statement regarding that.. It’s done I do it too…  Just wish it never happened….

                                           

                                          I was more in line with my comments regarding relaying of messages.. Over RF when phones and inet maybe down locally or globally..  More so than a CHAT round table.. I find it hard to visualize anyone would have time to establish a CHAT Round table in times of emergencies.. regardless of connection options.. But I may just not understand Marks idea on that well enough..  I do know with RF over VHF you could have a fairly adequate CHAT round table.. in the Days of MSYS we used to chat on MSYS Converse Mode on HF .. Not bad.. I would consider it slow compared to internet but it was doable.. If nothing else works and HF does it for you why the heck not… If you lose your hammer and need to drive a nail, I am sure you would go for a wrench, crowbar or even a 2x4.. Not the best choice but could get the job done.

                                           

                                          Yes HF is imperfect to naysayers.  but from experience I can get a message from here to say Indy in one hope at 300 baud packet on one of three HF bands 30 40 80 30 most of day 80 most of Night and 40 most of the other time.. As well as by VHF … Without touching the Network called the Internet. 

                                           

                                          I realize he specifically stated HF but with a little planning power backup and such he can have a network that works well with HF/VHF/UHF  and  the internet or works well without the internet.. For times when the internet may be down..

                                           

                                          Of course all this is moot if the President decides to shut down:

                                           

                                          Ham Radio like they did in WWII

                                           

                                          Or The internet as he  can do with the flip of a switch..

                                           

                                          And yes even the GPS Satellites … by his command.

                                           

                                          If our next disaster should be WWIII  or he gets his panties in a knot.

                                           

                                           

                                          Must plan for the worst and hope nothing happens..

                                           

                                           

                                          Hey to change the subject.. Slightly off topic, but could affect Mobile BPQ32 Packet Ops (how’s that for keeping it on topic)..and their GO KITS.. as well as anyone else with a Ham Radio in their vehicle,  I heard in Illinois something about a law that would / could ban all mobile Ham Ops.. Is this something to take serious.. Sounds like more silly politics with paranoia or hyperbole which is it anyone know.

                                           

                                          Please correct me where I may have miss understood points of contention.. It late for me and I been working since Friday 3 am  till this afternoon with no nap, just occasional breaks to run home for food... lol Lost three motors,  200 400 and a  1250 HP motor at work within 6 hours.. (power dips) lots of work. No intention of offending anyone..

                                           

                                          I do have a differing opinion then most here as to the viability of HF 300 Baud Packet.. It works for me.. I like it…

                                           

                                          73 Jerry N9LYA

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of N9ACQ
                                          Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 7:59 PM
                                          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] How do you use BPQ?

                                           

                                           

                                          Mark

                                                          Just use HF SSB. BPQ is the wrong tool for the intended job.

                                          73 Bill

                                          N9ACQ

                                          =
                                        • DEC
                                          Winlink/Winmor.... Yea we know they are out there. Stomping on QSO s everyday because they don t listen to the frequency first. They just come in and start
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Feb 5, 2012
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                                            Winlink/Winmor....

                                            Yea we know they are out there. Stomping on QSO's everyday because they don't "listen" to the frequency first. They just come in and start right on top of a packet QSO.

                                            And don't get me started on D-Star when they are linking them with 128k Clearwire connections between the repeaters. I'll stick to my analog repeater. At least it doesn't sound like someone has a clothes pin on their nose and R2D2 on the frequency.




                                            On Feb 4, 2012, at 10:49 PM, "N9ACQ" <n9acq@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            Jerry

                                                            The original comment was for chat via HF. My fires response was to that application and current technology available. For message handling the NTSD system of the ARRL uses the older Winlink Classic which does not require interfacing with the internet. Much like packet BBSs but they use manual intervention for message forwarding. For point to point the NBEMS can utilize  an ARQ protocol wrapped around sound card modes. Or RMS Express in point to point mode via Pactor or WINMOR.

                                                            Ok so the president attempts to shut down the internet. Will this affect my satellite internet service, or can they link visa another ground station within the satellite footprint. I suspect the connection points that lead out of the country could be shut down quickly but all the other service providers may not get the word. It is possible that big brother has a method whereby a command may be issued to shut down all nodes but I have not heard of that specific capability being required.

                                                            I do have a portable system with BPQ including BBS and Chat installed as well as RMS packet/RMS Relay as part of my go kit. I also have many soundcard programs installed as well.

                                             

                                                            Now on the philosophical discussion of radio and internet interconnection. One the rise of E-Mail and need by individuals not connected by wire to the internet, boaters, off the grid, Etc. This makes sense and do not forget there are many, like me, who depend on satellite service for internet and TV service. This was the concept behind Winlink 2000. Use internet when available, with 5 Common message Servers in different parts of the world. At this time there are over 50 Pactor gateway stations and 25 WINMOR gateway stations throughout the world, not counting the hundreds of packet gateway stations. The CMSs act like the old BBSs in that you need to connect to retrieve your messages. Personally I do not see, for me, a need to convert audio to digital and back again. Yes it does allow for wide area nets/conversations via D-Star and EchoLink. This gives conference calling capability to mobile stations. I can see this for organizing the response effort outside a disaster area, without the need for mobile HF capability. Each mode, method and system has a specific niche that it fills. Understanding which communications requirements will beat be meet by digital is a must to use them effectively.

                                            73 Bill

                                            N9ACQ

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