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Re: [BPQ32] Re: ARRL/TAPR DCC Forum Schedule, Banquet Speaker & Sunday Seminar Announced

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  • Charles Brabham
    The original TAPR was a credit to the hobby - but after the Dallas group takeover in the early internet days TAPR morphed into a virulent anti-packet
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 4 6:16 AM
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      The original TAPR was a credit to the hobby - but after the "Dallas group" takeover in the early internet days TAPR morphed into a virulent anti-packet organization.
       
      I was at the meeting where Greg Jones WD5IVD outlined his strategy utilizing internet gateways to destroy the international Packet Radio network that the original, real TAPR group was largely responsible for creating.
       
      RF links were 'routed around' by faster internet links, thus leaving the real hams with no traffic to move from A to B. - The result, as Greg foretold, was for dozens of the key HF Packlet forwarding stations to shut down, one after another.
       
      Greg's plan worked... - The detstroying AX25 Packet part of it, anyway.
       
      The amateur tcpip 'critical mass' that Greg and his degenerate friends kept talking about over and over like the second coming of Christ never did materialize though.
       
      It turned out that Greg Jones WD5IVD and his tcpip buddies were really great at tearing down what their betters do - but when it came time for them to do something of thier own, well that didn't work out so well.
       
      That's why whenever I see some degenerate punk gang-banger vandalizing something that his betters have worked to build and enjoy - I think of Greg Jones WD5IVD - and his buddies at TAPR.
       
      If anybody wants to know more about the Austin Texas meeting where the destruction of the AX25 network was outlined and put into motion, I'll be glad to tell that story in more detail. - It is something that all hams should know about, as it affected thousands of US hams who had no idea what was being done to them in the name of a pet digital mode that a group of no-count 'protocol warriors' determined to be of more importance than the hobby - or their fellow hams.
       
      - So no, I guess I won't be dropping whatever I am up to, in order to rush off and listen to the folks who are being strung along by TAPR - the place where good ideas go to die.
       
      73 DE Charles, N5PVL
       
    • Jerry
      Charles.. Good post Charles about TAPR most should read and know of that experience.. I was at a similar meeting in Indy back about this same time period. It
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 4 7:01 AM
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        Charles..

         

        Good post Charles about TAPR most should read and know of that experience..

         

        I was at a  similar meeting in Indy back about this same time period. It was at a forum at the Indy Hamfest. Should have been a time to meet and great new people but that is not at all how it went down. The Club IDEA Indiana Digital Experimenters Association  whom I had only been a member of for two years… Held their meeting at this same forum.. The Club meetings was split. About 50/50 RF hams VS Internet Forwarders.. The two leading the meeting… er Argument were one from each side. They started yelling at each other using language illegal on the air, slamming each others genealogy, .. acting like children in fact acting like children is an understatement, I know of no children who could act this bad. .. Instead of gaining new members or even new packet users…  They ran off the 5 guys I brought with me who had just ordered 5 KPC-3’s one each… And as they left with in the first 5 minutes of the forum, they swore they were cancelling their orders.. This was the very beginning of the end of the magnanimous network we hams built and we hams tore down…Amateur Radio operators had the world’s largest Worldwide Digital Network.. All built and managed by HAMS.. and it was killed by egos, my way or the hi-way mentality, and plain silly actions by what are supposed to be brothers…  It was not just one side or the other at least not here in Indiana.. It was both HF and Internet hams …  It was their way or the hi way and they all chose to drive home…

         

        I spent most of my packet time after this working the Shuttle and MIR.. As well as one friend and I stayed in touch over a simplex freq with no BBS.  He and I would also connect to each other during a few passes of the shuttle and MIR and talked for a moment or two.. Neat.. Still have the yellowed paper that we kept our logs on.. That was by far the best time I have ever had using Packet Radio on VHF.

         

        TAPR is also on my list of organizations to not deal with, maybe TAPR had enough power do it without starting a big fight..  but it takes two to have an argument and in IDEAs meeting they had just enough to make an argument that virtually killed packet… We all know we will never have a network anywhere near as big and bold as years gone by…  We had HF, VHF UHF Satellites, nodes, digipeaters, all kinds of stations.. More than most hams today could even imagine..  Built and installed by all kinds of Amateur Radio groups and clubs..

         

        I call that the “Sysop Wars” era..  It’s over.. We need to move forward and rebuild our Network.. And let that anger go..  I was so set back by this I almost sold out as well.. But at that same time I moved to Southern Indiana were Packet still had a foot hold. Not a lot of one but they still had a BBS Users and a 9600 Baud 220 and 440 network that was working very well.. to the South… All links to the North were via the internet of course, once we left our club on 440 to the north in Bloomington it was a link to a gateway, due to the infighting, all HF forwarding north of Bloomington stopped.. Most BBSs in Indiana Shutdown, Everyone either sold off their equipment or starting playing in the APRS area...  And then the addition of HF forwarding at the local club began again when I was sysop.. and had help from a few HF forwarders out in CA that wanted us to do HF forwarding with them..  One even drove out to help us. Thus I am still here… We can begin again… But we have to work together and in cooperation… 

         

        We must forget the past and move forward… Or we stand to repeat history…

         

        BPQ32 gives us a program that lets us intermingle so many protocols and methods.. be they RF, new modes, HF VHF UHF etc.. Even APRS …  Lets concentrate on that and move forward…

         

        We still have Good times ahead of us.. Let’s move towards those good times..

         

         

        73 Jerry N9LYA

         

        SYSOP K9BBS/W9OTR/W9BBS/N9LYA Packet BBS and Node System.

        Description: Image removed by sender.

      • Charles Brabham
        Jerry: The hams utilizing ham radio were, and are blameless. To accuse them of being discordant when they attempted to defend themselves against deliberate,
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 4 8:39 AM
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          Jerry:
           
          The hams utilizing ham radio were, and are blameless.
           
          To accuse them of being discordant when they attempted to defend themselves against deliberate, malicious vandalism should be re-thought, OM.
           
          Your meeting was apparently held long after the non-ham links had been imposed, the inapproriate traffic flooded, and the "let's take the fun out of Packet" campaign was in full swing.
           
          Took the fun right out of it, didn't it?
           
          That was the ( hinternet ) idea.
           
          Back then as it is now, a lot of hams just could not believe the damage that they were experiencing was deliberate, and fell for the "we just want to help" arguments from internet forwarders who were busily shutting one RF station after another down.
           
          A lot of hams fell for that line Jerry, along with the "be inclusive" arguments explaining why you would be a real jerk if you didn't accept the internet forwarders as they progressively shut the RF stations down, one after another.
           
          A lot of "useful idiot" internet forwarders fell for the propaganda being passed around, actually talking themselves into believing that what they were doing was helpful, rather than harmful. - Those cretinous old RF purists were the REAL problem, sowing discord with thier complaints!
           
          ( Insert picture of Grima Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings )
           
          You were, and are one of those amateurs who were hornswaggled, Jerry. Your good-natured nature has blinded you, and even has you giving the folks who are screwing up the network your personal support. Bless your heart, it's just not in you to recognize that facet of human nature that can act like a friend while they work to destroy what you value most - with your friendly help.
           
          When the Skipnet is finally 90% all-internet and maybe 10% ham, which by all indications may be fairly soon, I'll be dropping out and starting up a new network - and guess what?
           
           
          It'll be all ham radio - a home for "RF Purists".
           
          I'm sticking with the Skipnet while it is viable - but when it dies, I'm not going to spend much time feeling bad about SkipNet, because I'll have a breath of fresh air to work with in HamRadioNet.
           
          There are those who would scoff at an RF Purist - but consider the alternative! - We already KNOW how that system works out.
           
          Why continue to give them a veneer of respectability with your station, Jerry?
           
          My idea of getting along is where both sides prosper. - And both sides do not prosper when we interconnect.
           
          The internet forwarding stations cause RF stations to lose heart, shut down, or decide to never start up in the first place. - So, in order to get along, the RF Purists and the Internet forwarders should comprise two seperate networks that do not interconnect at any point, for any reason.
           
          They don't need us, and we sure as the devil do not need them.
           
          The fence is rotting away from beneath you, Jerry. It will not support your wieght much longer and when it collapses, you will need to either walk away - or decide. Same goes for KO.
           
          I'll keep a candle in the window for you guys at HamRadioNet. In the mean-time I have not given up on the SkipNet yet, and will continue to support it as an amateur radio activity.
           
          73 DE Charles, N5PVL
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jerry
          Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 9:01 AM
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: ARRL/TAPR DCC Forum Schedule, Banquet Speaker & Sunday Seminar Announced

           

          Charles..

          Good post Charles about TAPR most should read and know of that experience..

          I was at a  similar meeting in Indy back about this same time period. It was at a forum at the Indy Hamfest. Should have been a time to meet and great new people but that is not at all how it went down. The Club IDEA Indiana Digital Experimenters Association  whom I had only been a member of for two years… Held their meeting at this same forum.. The Club meetings was split. About 50/50 RF hams VS Internet Forwarders.. The two leading the meeting… er Argument were one from each side. They started yelling at each other using language illegal on the air, slamming each others genealogy, .. acting like children in fact acting like children is an understatement, I know of no children who could act this bad. .. Instead of gaining new members or even new packet users…  They ran off the 5 guys I brought with me who had just ordered 5 KPC-3’s one each… And as they left with in the first 5 minutes of the forum, they swore they were cancelling their orders.. This was the very beginning of the end of the magnanimous network we hams built and we hams tore down…Amateur Radio operators had the world’s largest Worldwide Digital Network.. All built and managed by HAMS.. and it was killed by egos, my way or the hi-way mentality, and plain silly actions by what are supposed to be brothers…  It was not just one side or the other at least not here in Indiana.. It was both HF and Internet hams …  It was their way or the hi way and they all chose to drive home…

          I spent most of my packet time after this working the Shuttle and MIR.. As well as one friend and I stayed in touch over a simplex freq with no BBS.  He and I would also connect to each other during a few passes of the shuttle and MIR and talked for a moment or two.. Neat.. Still have the yellowed paper that we kept our logs on.. That was by far the best time I have ever had using Packet Radio on VHF.

          TAPR is also on my list of organizations to not deal with, maybe TAPR had enough power do it without starting a big fight..  but it takes two to have an argument and in IDEAs meeting they had just enough to make an argument that virtually killed packet… We all know we will never have a network anywhere near as big and bold as years gone by…  We had HF, VHF UHF Satellites, nodes, digipeaters, all kinds of stations.. More than most hams today could even imagine..  Built and installed by all kinds of Amateur Radio groups and clubs..

          I call that the “Sysop Wars” era..  It’s over.. We need to move forward and rebuild our Network.. And let that anger go..  I was so set back by this I almost sold out as well.. But at that same time I moved to Southern Indiana were Packet still had a foot hold. Not a lot of one but they still had a BBS Users and a 9600 Baud 220 and 440 network that was working very well.. to the South… All links to the North were via the internet of course, once we left our club on 440 to the north in Bloomington it was a link to a gateway, due to the infighting, all HF forwarding north of Bloomington stopped.. Most BBSs in Indiana Shutdown, Everyone either sold off their equipment or starting playing in the APRS area...  And then the addition of HF forwarding at the local club began again when I was sysop.. and had help from a few HF forwarders out in CA that wanted us to do HF forwarding with them..  One even drove out to help us. Thus I am still here… We can begin again… But we have to work together and in cooperation… 

          We must forget the past and move forward… Or we stand to repeat history…

          BPQ32 gives us a program that lets us intermingle so many protocols and methods.. be they RF, new modes, HF VHF UHF etc.. Even APRS …  Lets concentrate on that and move forward…

          We still have Good times ahead of us.. Let’s move towards those good times..

          73 Jerry N9LYA

          SYSOP K9BBS/W9OTR/W9BBS/N9LYA Packet BBS and Node System.

          Description: Image removed by sender.

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