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Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

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  • Hank Oredson
    Any hidden transmitters? That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active. If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail. ... From:
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
      Any hidden transmitters?
      That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active.
      If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail.
       
        ... Hank
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
      Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

       

      Mike

      May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings
      against
      The 2 that are not getting disconnected.

      Mike-N9PMO

    • W8EHH
      Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not everyone can hear each other that s why we have the node at 150 feet. So your saying chat will never work unless
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
        Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not everyone can hear each other that's why we have the node at 150 feet. So your saying chat will never work unless every body can hear every one??

        Mike

        Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


        From: "Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...>
        Sender: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
        To: <BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

         

        Any hidden transmitters?
        That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active.
        If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail.
         
          ... Hank
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
        Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

         

        Mike

        May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings
        against
        The 2 that are not getting disconnected.

        Mike-N9PMO

      • Hank Oredson
        Any sort of linking will fail with hidden transmitters. With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be stepping on the acks from the others, and will retry out.
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
          Any sort of linking will fail with hidden transmitters.
          With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be stepping on
          the acks from the others, and will retry out.
           
          Here we solve this problem by providing multiple frequencies at each node.
          Never more than 3 transmitters on each frequency, and all must hear each other.
          We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
          Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
           
          One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20 transmitters on the same frequency.
          As expected it is totally useless.
           
          There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that will work with hidden transmitters.
          Those protocols poll each remote station from a single central station.
          The remote stations never transmit except to respond to their poll.
           
            ... Hank
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: W8EHH
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

           

          Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not everyone can hear each other that's why we have the node at 150 feet. So your saying chat will never work unless every body can hear every one??

          Mike

          Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


          From: "Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...>
          Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
          To: <BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
          ReplyTo: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

           

          Any hidden transmitters?
          That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active.
          If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail.
           
            ... Hank
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

           

          Mike

          May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings
          against
          The 2 that are not getting disconnected.

          Mike-N9PMO

        • Mark Harloff
          Flexnet does that. That s one of the reasons we use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John. - Mark K2CAN
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
            Flexnet does that. That's one of the reasons we
            use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John.

            - Mark K2CAN

            On 2/1/2011 8:49 PM, Hank Oredson wrote:
            > Any sort of linking will fail with hidden
            > transmitters.
            > With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be
            > stepping on
            > the acks from the others, and will retry out.
            > Here we solve this problem by providing multiple
            > frequencies at each node.
            > Never more than 3 transmitters on each
            > frequency, and all must hear each other.
            > We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
            > Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
            > One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20
            > transmitters on the same frequency.
            > As expected it is totally useless.
            > There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that
            > will work with hidden transmitters.
            > Those protocols poll each remote station from a
            > single central station.
            > The remote stations never transmit except to
            > respond to their poll.
            > ... Hank
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > *From:* W8EHH <mailto:w8ehh1@...>
            > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
            > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
            > *Subject:* Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
            >
            > Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not
            > everyone can hear each other that's why we
            > have the node at 150 feet. So your saying
            > chat will never work unless every body can
            > hear every one??
            >
            > Mike
            >
            > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my
            > BlackBerry®
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------
            > *From: *"Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...
            > <mailto:w0rli@...>>
            > *Sender: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
            > *Date: *Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
            > *To: *<BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
            > *ReplyTo: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            > *Subject: *Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
            >
            > Any hidden transmitters?
            > That would be a killer on a channel with 6
            > transmitters active.
            > If every one does not hear everyone else ...
            > it will fail.
            > ... Hank
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > *From:* Mike Melnik
            > <mailto:mmelnik1@...>
            > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
            > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
            > *Subject:* RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
            >
            > Mike
            >
            > May be the 3 that are getting
            > disconnected should compare their settings
            > against
            > The 2 that are not getting disconnected.
            >
            > Mike-N9PMO
            >
            >
          • la7um
            Maybe John can implement this german Dama master protocol into his NetRom node? Client packet Tnc s may then use its inherent Dama slave mode. I am not sure,
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
              Maybe John can implement this german Dama master protocol into his NetRom node? Client packet Tnc's may then use its inherent Dama slave mode.

              I am not sure, but believe that for this to work, ALL the clients must be "Dama-slave" capable.
              Kind of similar with XKISS or Polled Kiss mode or Extended Kiss....many names..Like many TNCs using the same RS232 port.
              All the potential users must agree and prepare for this.

              So an option like this in BPQ32 must me ....well....an option.

              Another issue might be the SW "feeling of real time".
              FlexNet and some TNCs with "6pack" do react quicker to the on air signals than SW through TNCs in KISS mode.

              I think (not sure) that Linux X(net) may handle Dama.

              73 de la7um Finn

              --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, Mark Harloff <mharloff@...> wrote:
              >
              > Flexnet does that. That's one of the reasons we
              > use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John.
              >
              > - Mark K2CAN
              >
              > On 2/1/2011 8:49 PM, Hank Oredson wrote:
              > > Any sort of linking will fail with hidden
              > > transmitters.
              > > With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be
              > > stepping on
              > > the acks from the others, and will retry out.
              > > Here we solve this problem by providing multiple
              > > frequencies at each node.
              > > Never more than 3 transmitters on each
              > > frequency, and all must hear each other.
              > > We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
              > > Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
              > > One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20
              > > transmitters on the same frequency.
              > > As expected it is totally useless.
              > > There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that
              > > will work with hidden transmitters.
              > > Those protocols poll each remote station from a
              > > single central station.
              > > The remote stations never transmit except to
              > > respond to their poll.
              > > ... Hank
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > *From:* W8EHH <mailto:w8ehh1@...>
              > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
              > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
              > > *Subject:* Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
              > >
              > > Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not
              > > everyone can hear each other that's why we
              > > have the node at 150 feet. So your saying
              > > chat will never work unless every body can
              > > hear every one??
              > >
              > > Mike
              > >
              > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my
              > > BlackBerry®
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------
              > > *From: *"Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...
              > > <mailto:w0rli@...>>
              > > *Sender: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
              > > *Date: *Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
              > > *To: *<BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
              > > *ReplyTo: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              > > *Subject: *Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
              > >
              > > Any hidden transmitters?
              > > That would be a killer on a channel with 6
              > > transmitters active.
              > > If every one does not hear everyone else ...
              > > it will fail.
              > > ... Hank
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > *From:* Mike Melnik
              > > <mailto:mmelnik1@...>
              > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
              > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
              > > *Subject:* RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
              > >
              > > Mike
              > >
              > > May be the 3 that are getting
              > > disconnected should compare their settings
              > > against
              > > The 2 that are not getting disconnected.
              > >
              > > Mike-N9PMO
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Hank Oredson
              I should probably revisit DAMA ... considered an implementation years ago, but since it was not needed in our local network did not do it ;-) ... From: la7um
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                I should probably revisit DAMA ... considered an implementation years
                ago, but since it was not needed in our local network did not do it ;-)
                 
                  ... Hank
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: la7um
                Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 7:13 AM
                Subject: [BPQ32] Re: Help with Chat

                 

                Maybe John can implement this german Dama master protocol into his NetRom node? Client packet Tnc's may then use its inherent Dama slave mode.

                I am not sure, but believe that for this to work, ALL the clients must be "Dama-slave" capable.
                Kind of similar with XKISS or Polled Kiss mode or Extended Kiss....many names..Like many TNCs using the same RS232 port.
                All the potential users must agree and prepare for this.

                So an option like this in BPQ32 must me ....well....an option.

                Another issue might be the SW "feeling of real time".
                FlexNet and some TNCs with "6pack" do react quicker to the on air signals than SW through TNCs in KISS mode.

                I think (not sure) that Linux X(net) may handle Dama.

                73 de la7um Finn

                --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, Mark Harloff <mharloff@...> wrote:
                >
                > Flexnet does that. That's one of the reasons we
                > use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John.
                >
                > - Mark K2CAN
                >
                > On 2/1/2011 8:49 PM, Hank Oredson wrote:
                > > Any sort of linking will fail with hidden
                > > transmitters.
                > > With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be
                > > stepping on
                > > the acks from the others, and will retry out.
                > > Here we solve this problem by providing multiple
                > > frequencies at each node.
                > > Never more than 3 transmitters on each
                > > frequency, and all must hear each other.
                > > We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
                > > Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
                > > One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20
                > > transmitters on the same frequency.
                > > As expected it is totally useless.
                > > There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that
                > > will work with hidden transmitters.
                > > Those protocols poll each remote station from a
                > > single central station.
                > > The remote stations never transmit except to
                > > respond to their poll.
                > > ... Hank
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > *From:* W8EHH <mailto:w8ehh1@...>
                > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
                > > *Subject:* Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                > >
                > > Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not
                > > everyone can hear each other that's why we
                > > have the node at 150 feet. So your saying
                > > chat will never work unless every body can
                > > hear every one??
                > >
                > > Mike
                > >
                > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my
                > > BlackBerry®
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------
                > > *From: *"Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...
                > > <mailto:w0rli@...>>
                > > *Sender: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > > *Date: *Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
                > > *To: *<BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > > *ReplyTo: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > > *Subject: *Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                > >
                > > Any hidden transmitters?
                > > That would be a killer on a channel with 6
                > > transmitters active.
                > > If every one does not hear everyone else ...
                > > it will fail.
                > > ... Hank
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > *From:* Mike Melnik
                > > <mailto:mmelnik1@...>
                > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
                > > *Subject:* RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                > >
                > > Mike
                > >
                > > May be the 3 that are getting
                > > disconnected should compare their settings
                > > against
                > > The 2 that are not getting disconnected.
                > >
                > > Mike-N9PMO
                > >
                > >
                >

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