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Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

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  • w8ehh
    Good Evening John Well traffic is not all that much. There are only about 7 of us at the moment. a couple do check the bbs every hour automatically but
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
      Good Evening John
       
      Well traffic is not all that much.  There are only about 7 of us at the moment.  a couple do check the bbs every hour automatically but that's it.  So the best I can tell is it  is due to settings of indivuales and or settings in BPQ.  But what Mr.Higgs sent seemed very hi for a PBBS.  Not sure what I should tell our users.
       
      Is there a way to do sysop duties remotely?  the node is in a locations that don't lend itself to go to when need to un hold messages or something simple like that.
       
      Thanks again
       
      Mike  W8EHH
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 4:39 PM
      Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

       

      Mike,
       
      There are many reasons for a station getting regular disconnects - the signal could be marginal, ax.25 parameters, e.g. retries or frack could be unsuitable, the channel could be too busy. You really need to monitor the traffic to get an idea of where to start looking. I would also be worth comparing the configuration of the stations that don't get disconnected with those that do.
       
      73,
      John
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of w8ehh
      Sent: 01 February 2011 21:25
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

       

      Thanks for the info.  But could you give me some specifics that have worked for you in the past.
      We are a new group and very new to chat.  If I cant fix this the group will go back to UNPROTO and that is bad in itself. the stations getting bounced are 2 using KPC-3 and 1 using a PK ? TNC.
      Do I have to change any setting in BPQ also?
       
      Thanks again
       
      Mike  W8EHH
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: WS7I
      Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:46 AM
      Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

       

      In my experience with packet the entire team will need to have syncronized parameters. What we found was that less agressive was much better.  e.g. longer FRACK, more retires, less frames, and longer resptime.  But most important is that all stations have essentially the same parms.  This is on a user basis.
       
      Most of this came from RF packetcluster usage.

      On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:18 AM, w8ehh <w8ehh1@...> wrote:
       

      Good Day All
       
      WE got the new system up and running at the permanent location.  We used the chat mode for our nightly packet net, for the first time.
      We had 5 persons connected.  2 of the five never got disconnected. the other 3 were getting disconnected constantly.  Connections set to 10.
       
      What is causing these disconnects and how can I remedy this.  We will not be able to CHAT if this cant be solved.
       
      Any Help will be appreciated.
       
      Mike
       


    • Mike Melnik
      Mike May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings against The 2 that are not getting disconnected. Mike-N9PMO
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
        Mike

        May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings
        against
        The 2 that are not getting disconnected.

        Mike-N9PMO
      • Hank Oredson
        Any hidden transmitters? That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active. If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail. ... From:
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
          Any hidden transmitters?
          That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active.
          If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail.
           
            ... Hank
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

           

          Mike

          May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings
          against
          The 2 that are not getting disconnected.

          Mike-N9PMO

        • W8EHH
          Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not everyone can hear each other that s why we have the node at 150 feet. So your saying chat will never work unless
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
            Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not everyone can hear each other that's why we have the node at 150 feet. So your saying chat will never work unless every body can hear every one??

            Mike

            Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


            From: "Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...>
            Sender: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
            To: <BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
            ReplyTo: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

             

            Any hidden transmitters?
            That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active.
            If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail.
             
              ... Hank
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
            Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

             

            Mike

            May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings
            against
            The 2 that are not getting disconnected.

            Mike-N9PMO

          • Hank Oredson
            Any sort of linking will fail with hidden transmitters. With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be stepping on the acks from the others, and will retry out.
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
              Any sort of linking will fail with hidden transmitters.
              With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be stepping on
              the acks from the others, and will retry out.
               
              Here we solve this problem by providing multiple frequencies at each node.
              Never more than 3 transmitters on each frequency, and all must hear each other.
              We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
              Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
               
              One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20 transmitters on the same frequency.
              As expected it is totally useless.
               
              There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that will work with hidden transmitters.
              Those protocols poll each remote station from a single central station.
              The remote stations never transmit except to respond to their poll.
               
                ... Hank
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: W8EHH
              Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
              Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

               

              Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not everyone can hear each other that's why we have the node at 150 feet. So your saying chat will never work unless every body can hear every one??

              Mike

              Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


              From: "Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...>
              Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
              To: <BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
              ReplyTo: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

               

              Any hidden transmitters?
              That would be a killer on a channel with 6 transmitters active.
              If every one does not hear everyone else ... it will fail.
               
                ... Hank
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
              Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat

               

              Mike

              May be the 3 that are getting disconnected should compare their settings
              against
              The 2 that are not getting disconnected.

              Mike-N9PMO

            • Mark Harloff
              Flexnet does that. That s one of the reasons we use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John. - Mark K2CAN
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 1, 2011
                Flexnet does that. That's one of the reasons we
                use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John.

                - Mark K2CAN

                On 2/1/2011 8:49 PM, Hank Oredson wrote:
                > Any sort of linking will fail with hidden
                > transmitters.
                > With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be
                > stepping on
                > the acks from the others, and will retry out.
                > Here we solve this problem by providing multiple
                > frequencies at each node.
                > Never more than 3 transmitters on each
                > frequency, and all must hear each other.
                > We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
                > Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
                > One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20
                > transmitters on the same frequency.
                > As expected it is totally useless.
                > There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that
                > will work with hidden transmitters.
                > Those protocols poll each remote station from a
                > single central station.
                > The remote stations never transmit except to
                > respond to their poll.
                > ... Hank
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > *From:* W8EHH <mailto:w8ehh1@...>
                > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
                > *Subject:* Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                >
                > Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not
                > everyone can hear each other that's why we
                > have the node at 150 feet. So your saying
                > chat will never work unless every body can
                > hear every one??
                >
                > Mike
                >
                > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my
                > BlackBerry®
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------
                > *From: *"Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...
                > <mailto:w0rli@...>>
                > *Sender: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > *Date: *Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
                > *To: *<BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > *ReplyTo: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > *Subject: *Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                >
                > Any hidden transmitters?
                > That would be a killer on a channel with 6
                > transmitters active.
                > If every one does not hear everyone else ...
                > it will fail.
                > ... Hank
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > *From:* Mike Melnik
                > <mailto:mmelnik1@...>
                > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
                > *Subject:* RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                >
                > Mike
                >
                > May be the 3 that are getting
                > disconnected should compare their settings
                > against
                > The 2 that are not getting disconnected.
                >
                > Mike-N9PMO
                >
                >
              • la7um
                Maybe John can implement this german Dama master protocol into his NetRom node? Client packet Tnc s may then use its inherent Dama slave mode. I am not sure,
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                  Maybe John can implement this german Dama master protocol into his NetRom node? Client packet Tnc's may then use its inherent Dama slave mode.

                  I am not sure, but believe that for this to work, ALL the clients must be "Dama-slave" capable.
                  Kind of similar with XKISS or Polled Kiss mode or Extended Kiss....many names..Like many TNCs using the same RS232 port.
                  All the potential users must agree and prepare for this.

                  So an option like this in BPQ32 must me ....well....an option.

                  Another issue might be the SW "feeling of real time".
                  FlexNet and some TNCs with "6pack" do react quicker to the on air signals than SW through TNCs in KISS mode.

                  I think (not sure) that Linux X(net) may handle Dama.

                  73 de la7um Finn

                  --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, Mark Harloff <mharloff@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Flexnet does that. That's one of the reasons we
                  > use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John.
                  >
                  > - Mark K2CAN
                  >
                  > On 2/1/2011 8:49 PM, Hank Oredson wrote:
                  > > Any sort of linking will fail with hidden
                  > > transmitters.
                  > > With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be
                  > > stepping on
                  > > the acks from the others, and will retry out.
                  > > Here we solve this problem by providing multiple
                  > > frequencies at each node.
                  > > Never more than 3 transmitters on each
                  > > frequency, and all must hear each other.
                  > > We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
                  > > Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
                  > > One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20
                  > > transmitters on the same frequency.
                  > > As expected it is totally useless.
                  > > There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that
                  > > will work with hidden transmitters.
                  > > Those protocols poll each remote station from a
                  > > single central station.
                  > > The remote stations never transmit except to
                  > > respond to their poll.
                  > > ... Hank
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > *From:* W8EHH <mailto:w8ehh1@...>
                  > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
                  > > *Subject:* Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                  > >
                  > > Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not
                  > > everyone can hear each other that's why we
                  > > have the node at 150 feet. So your saying
                  > > chat will never work unless every body can
                  > > hear every one??
                  > >
                  > > Mike
                  > >
                  > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my
                  > > BlackBerry®
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------
                  > > *From: *"Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...
                  > > <mailto:w0rli@...>>
                  > > *Sender: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > *Date: *Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
                  > > *To: *<BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > *ReplyTo: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                  > > *Subject: *Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                  > >
                  > > Any hidden transmitters?
                  > > That would be a killer on a channel with 6
                  > > transmitters active.
                  > > If every one does not hear everyone else ...
                  > > it will fail.
                  > > ... Hank
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > *From:* Mike Melnik
                  > > <mailto:mmelnik1@...>
                  > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
                  > > *Subject:* RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                  > >
                  > > Mike
                  > >
                  > > May be the 3 that are getting
                  > > disconnected should compare their settings
                  > > against
                  > > The 2 that are not getting disconnected.
                  > >
                  > > Mike-N9PMO
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Hank Oredson
                  I should probably revisit DAMA ... considered an implementation years ago, but since it was not needed in our local network did not do it ;-) ... From: la7um
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 2, 2011
                    I should probably revisit DAMA ... considered an implementation years
                    ago, but since it was not needed in our local network did not do it ;-)
                     
                      ... Hank
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: la7um
                    Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 7:13 AM
                    Subject: [BPQ32] Re: Help with Chat

                     

                    Maybe John can implement this german Dama master protocol into his NetRom node? Client packet Tnc's may then use its inherent Dama slave mode.

                    I am not sure, but believe that for this to work, ALL the clients must be "Dama-slave" capable.
                    Kind of similar with XKISS or Polled Kiss mode or Extended Kiss....many names..Like many TNCs using the same RS232 port.
                    All the potential users must agree and prepare for this.

                    So an option like this in BPQ32 must me ....well....an option.

                    Another issue might be the SW "feeling of real time".
                    FlexNet and some TNCs with "6pack" do react quicker to the on air signals than SW through TNCs in KISS mode.

                    I think (not sure) that Linux X(net) may handle Dama.

                    73 de la7um Finn

                    --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, Mark Harloff <mharloff@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Flexnet does that. That's one of the reasons we
                    > use it up here for RF links. No disrespect to John.
                    >
                    > - Mark K2CAN
                    >
                    > On 2/1/2011 8:49 PM, Hank Oredson wrote:
                    > > Any sort of linking will fail with hidden
                    > > transmitters.
                    > > With 5 hidden transmitters, they will all be
                    > > stepping on
                    > > the acks from the others, and will retry out.
                    > > Here we solve this problem by providing multiple
                    > > frequencies at each node.
                    > > Never more than 3 transmitters on each
                    > > frequency, and all must hear each other.
                    > > We use 6M, 2M, 223, 70cm.
                    > > Most links are 9600, with a few links at 1200.
                    > > One of the EMCOMM "networks" has over 20
                    > > transmitters on the same frequency.
                    > > As expected it is totally useless.
                    > > There are protocols other than normal AX.25 that
                    > > will work with hidden transmitters.
                    > > Those protocols poll each remote station from a
                    > > single central station.
                    > > The remote stations never transmit except to
                    > > respond to their poll.
                    > > ... Hank
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > *From:* W8EHH <mailto:w8ehh1@...>
                    > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 PM
                    > > *Subject:* Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                    > >
                    > > Here in FL almost all have hidden ants not
                    > > everyone can hear each other that's why we
                    > > have the node at 150 feet. So your saying
                    > > chat will never work unless every body can
                    > > hear every one??
                    > >
                    > > Mike
                    > >
                    > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my
                    > > BlackBerry®
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------
                    > > *From: *"Hank Oredson" <w0rli@...
                    > > <mailto:w0rli@...>>
                    > > *Sender: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > *Date: *Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:32:53 -0800
                    > > *To: *<BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > *ReplyTo: *BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                    > > *Subject: *Re: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                    > >
                    > > Any hidden transmitters?
                    > > That would be a killer on a channel with 6
                    > > transmitters active.
                    > > If every one does not hear everyone else ...
                    > > it will fail.
                    > > ... Hank
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > *From:* Mike Melnik
                    > > <mailto:mmelnik1@...>
                    > > *To:* BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:19 PM
                    > > *Subject:* RE: [BPQ32] Help with Chat
                    > >
                    > > Mike
                    > >
                    > > May be the 3 that are getting
                    > > disconnected should compare their settings
                    > > against
                    > > The 2 that are not getting disconnected.
                    > >
                    > > Mike-N9PMO
                    > >
                    > >
                    >

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