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RE: [BPQ32] Re: System here

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  • Jerry
    Hi Jeff.. First I wish to point out I am tired.. been up all night after the party with extreme stomach pain.. Knife in Stomach feeling.. Not sure if I caught
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 18, 2010
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      Hi Jeff..

      First I wish to point out I am tired.. been up all night after the party with extreme stomach pain.. Knife in Stomach feeling.. Not sure if I caught a cold or eat something bad.... So bar with me I feel bad and my body is probably about 6 different temperatures depending on where you measure at any given moment…

       

      Yea a node between is key,,

       

      You are correct going totally RF will cost more.. I know that my goal is  not to cut cost.. But to use the power more efficiently, if that means using 3x as much. WASTED power is not good used power.. Let’s see I would rather pay $300 a month on power to move messages over the air.. rather then $100 to send them over a wire and still have the radios sitting idle most of the time and or wasting power just verifying that the station on the other end has already received them over the wire...

       

      Having my rigs actually transfer messages in the name of utilizing what power I do use is more important to me then using that power for nothing but making lights flash…

       

      I will look into the intel atom based pc servers..

       

      I want the best of both worlds…. Any comments or verbiage that’s sounds offensive to anyone is not intended… No not even to the Winlink guys… I truly believe winlink is what helped spur the new life into packet and BPQ32…  For reasons I won’t mention as they would be speculation.

       

      I will still be using RMS whenever they get it fixed (thanks for info Jeff will investigate as I get well) for passing winlink traffic. My RMS updated version dies immediately after it starts.. SO RMS here is down for the count.. Waiting for an announcement.. Of some kinds or a clue how to KILL Auto updates..

       

      I am not focusing on WINLINK, as my Primary purpose is NOT EMCOMS.. My Stations primary purpose is Packet BBS forwarding NTS PMAIL and then Bulletins. Always has been.  I Fully Support the Emcoms movement especially Don West the IDHLS Communications Director who does favor RF,   and many hams who asked me to add Winlink to my line up, and allow anyone to use access or store and forward thru my system by all the means available. Which is Packet VHF UHF HF And a limited internet forwarding ability, RMS (Still has 100% internet forwarding Ability)  BBS  forwarding here  uses the Packet and WINMOR PACTOR protocols.. 

       

      I am just not making internet BBS forwarding as available as it was yesterday…  If I do that I might as well open an ISP and just move everything over the inet, save $200+ a month in power bills and Sell all the radios and let it run like a webpage.. Static with no reason to improve.…  I am not slamming those hardworking Sysops who use Packet over the internet with no radio.. I understand the current state of economics in this country.. as well as all the other factors…

       

      Aside from that the ARRL does not make all the decisions in ham radio.. Not here at my home anyway.. (I am a member and have been since 1991) They made it clear in 1988 that they did not support any NON FEC Protocol. And many times since including 2004.

       

      If the Emcoms folks in your area want JUST WINLINK 1 tool in their tool box.. You can give the 1  tool that is backed by wires and has no viable backup solution.. Or you can give them BPQ32 that gives them the Swiss army knife type of tool.  You can use WINLINK along with it on the side as a backup as you suggested a week or so ago.... So WHEN the internet goes down.. They can still pass their emails over HF. You can implement DXCLuster to attract users.. a magnitude of order more things then with one blade..

       

      Remember 911… I do…  I was at our Christmas dinner last night for LEHIGH… At the Bloomington Indiana Convention Center.  Very nice, had a great time.. But I could not get it out of my head just where I WAS.. on 9-11-2001 I was in the very same building when the 911 attacks took place. I was attending a GAS furnace Class for work.. When I came out of class to use the facilities.. I saw everyone hovering around the TV in the Lobby. I asked what was up just as I saw the Second Plane fly into the other Twin Tower.. Holy Crap I thought… It’s the end time for sure.. I was thinking.. I won’t go on with the rest we were all shocked as everyone was.

       

      Anyway the rest is history…

       

      But What I wanted to remind everyone of was the fact that the land line and cellular systems were overloaded with everyone calling their sister brother uncle and cousin, I would have been guilty of this as well had I been able to get an open line. I knew my wife was out mowing and had no clue. I tried calling on payphone, cellphone and hotel phone.. All I heard on them was.. “All circuits are busy.” Tried for quite sometime. So if one expects the Internet to not have large outages during the next attack, threat that gets carried out, or natural disaster.. Is living a fantasy. My Wife KC9DDP was not yet a HAM, and I wanted to get word to her.. So I went to my car grabbed my HT and contacted my neighbor via our Linked repeater System w9win, and asked him to stop by and let her know what was happening.. I was actually able to talk to her via third party as he took his HT with him.  Remember I was in the not so big city of Bloomington IN. quite a long way from any of the 911 disaster locations. We, none of the people in the convention center, could access NORMAL Communications.

       

       

       

       

      All else runs as before.. Just not any Bulletins over the Inet except to you and aa9mm for now..

       

      I did turn on my vhf and  both UHF nodes again… so I will keep an eye out for Evansville.

       

      I still am passing non-bulletins over the INET for now..

       

      Will wean myself off the wired side over the next few months… But again only on the BBS forwarding side..

       

      I will keep WINLINK available in all aspects

       

      Not trying to argue Jeff.. just post my point of view..

       

      BBSs will live on into tomorrow… Maybe not in the same form.. But I was hoping all the powerful discussions on the BBS_Sysop group would get us to move forward using RF more then less.. I understand where one is isolated or in a residential situation where antennas are restricted may need the internet.. and ok yes the internet can augment our network every well indeed..  I used it till I got my system back to where it could use RF and achieve favorable results using RF… So the elimination or should I say curtailment of using the Internet is to use what I and  trained for as a Ham Radio Op..

      In fact that is why when I went from RF to Internet.. I was lost.. I had no friggin idea how to get traffic to flow over a NON RADIO link (the internet it simply was NOT RADIO) and quite frankly for me RADIO is quite simple..  I am still confused on how that internet thing  works.. I started out in RADIO BBS work in 1996 When I moved to Mitchell and was asked to join the local club before I even moved here, and Sysop their BBS. I can make many  radios thousands of miles apart communicate with our digital modes. I can form a network, Of them, and can supply copy N Play BBS software all day long.. But give me an internet link and I feel exposed… BPQ32 is difficult concept. I am so used to simply editing BBS files to make all my changes.. Editing Config files in dos windows to optimize the software for maximum transfer using methods developed by many MSYS BBS Sysops over the years so that the systems would allow maximum throughput it the 300 Baud HF Symbol rate … But forgive me when I am lost here… I am running BPQ32 on a Server,  here with lots of help from John and everyone.. And I do have difficulties at times.. But I made the transition and am starting to comprehend the software better.. I must say it is great in that it has the  Newly developed BPQ BBS and is in continued improvement.. No Other BBS program I know of has this kind of attention at this time… And is so versatile it can serve all Digital HAMS… (I miss MSYS that is why I run it on a separate Machine just so I can offer support to those Sysops who are still using it.

       

      I know for a fact that every BBS sysop on here that also forwards over the internet does it for the same reasons to give back to the hobby what they can.... If they could use RF more they would.. In our present economy the other factors include money to design and construct let along maintain such a system takes a back seat to everyday needs.…


      But without keeping the RF side in the equation, were we can.. we might as well all give up and give to the texting generation and let them do it all with wires…

       

      Heck at some point I may open backup more Inet forwarding or eliminate it here all together I do not know what tomorrow will bring.. It  is not meant to degrade the network or disrupt things.. Only to allow me to get more genuine, favorable results out of all the radios I have humming around here.. If that means I pay more for the monthly electric that is ok… It will be paid to power the radios to forward messages..

       

      Again in summary as the Skipnet Coordinator.. I am trying to run more of a station (more inline with the mission of the Skipnet in mind)  I was running prior to BPQ32..  I am not trying to move away from the internet forwarding partners I supported and have supported me, over the last few years since I started using BPQ32… I am in fact just trying to do it with more RF then less.. And again if anyone needs me to forward with them over the inet due to a situation I am unfamiliar with I am wishing they would email and, let me know the circumstances..

       

      And in order for us to move forward.. We need to embrace, the fact that we will always have divergence in our systems.. No way can we all run the SAME software and hardware and no two stations will be exactly alike no matter how hard we try clone them.. Something will always be different no matter how hard.. One thing in particular: The Sysop of each station will each have their own ideas and preferred methods… Always have always will.  We all have something grand to offer in support of  our mixed mode network….

       

      I know on the BBS_sysop group there are discussions on how to fix some of the flaws.. Great ideas being throw around.. And I would like to see some of the fixes and ideas applied.. But there will always be the following..

       

      A multitude of BBS software old and new…

      A 1000 Sysops will still yields 1000 different ways to sysop.

      The Inet and RF ideals.. Will still be felt strongly by some and not at all by others…

      Again Cooperation IS KEY…

       

      Not compliance…

       

      We each must run our Systems as we see fit and try to build a network that carries all ideas.. And to make it anything else will be to duplicate the WINLINK system…

       

      Again I run WINLINK. I do not agree to a lot of their ideas..  All the hard work by people like John and his beta test team.. We can incorporate the Internet and RF into our NETWORK…. As well as all the old and new digital Modes John is adding to his BPQ2 program.

       

      And AGAIN.. I am part of that network.. I run RF and the inet.. I have just favored RF for now anyway.. I would (my ideas of a perfect BBS only) to see an increase ine RF usage.. And you know what I have again thanks to the hardwork of many HAMS.. WINMOR (Rick and the WL2K DT) BPQ32 (John and his team) Hardworking Hams USERS and SYSOPS everywhere…

       

      Jeff I hope you now see what I am striving for.. the SAME thing you are…

       

      The ARRL and I have not kept up on the WL2K teams Ideals.. So I could be wrong.. They may want a world dominated by WINLINK only… But even they helped us get WINMOR as an open Protocol to allow BPQ32 and other programs to use it as they see fit..

      Do not give up on the BBS or WINLINK… DO BOTH.. I am…

       

      Have a great DAY Jeff…

       

      I was so excited about having the ability to move more traffic over RF.. That I forgot that my post may have been miss construed by some as giving up on the Internet.  Not True… That ability will always be here.. No matter what the future holds… But for now.. I am targeting RF as the Primary preferred method that my stations supports and works within this LARGE Network we have growing by leaps and bounds…

       

      I know some of my RF Partners also forward over the internet.. That is another way I stay connected to that aspect of our network…

       

       

      Jeff I hope you see the big picture I was seeing when I made  this announcement… The Power Argument  (EXCUSE) I was using was just to illustrate what my system was doing yesterday rather then what it is doing today…

       

      Together we can all make a difference in our own way… In no way can we fix the system if we do give up…

       

      I could ask you to sell BOTH Winlink and the BBS infrastructure to KY… and tell them this gives them a magnitude of order higher abilities then any one system by itself…  I mean when you can run it all on one PC using BPQ32… How could they abandon the BBS idea…

       

      With all the ideas and  suggestions here and on other groups, and continued discussions we could make great strides in how well the info flows….                                                                                                                                                                                                     It will  never be perfect.. But it can be Optimized at least some…

       

       

      I hope you have time to talk more about this…   I had thought I was clear on my mind set in todays actions… It started out I was wanting to disable Inet forwarding to test RF forwarding… But sifting thru the logs.. and seeing I was forwarding on three nest today 40 20 and 30 at the same time and passing traffic… After a short discussion with John on how I could turn on and off forwarding.. I decided to just remove bulletins from my forwarding files to stations over the internet… ONLY CHANGE I MADE…

       

      And knowing you and Evansville needed them I thought I’d stay on with you two for now.. Which in essence should not shift the number of bulls here by much… But again EVERYONE I have been forwarding with on Internet please do not remove me or delete me just edit me.. No Bulls all else ok…

       

      Ok have a great day… Not forcing my ways on anyone.. Just keeping everyone informed of what is happening here.. Today… That is different from yesterday and will be different then tomorrow..

       

      73 Jerry N9LYA

      Skipnet Coordinator

       

       

       

       

      From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff - WA4ZKO
      Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:57 PM
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [BPQ32] Re: System here

       

       

      Jerry (and crew),

      For Jerry, Evansville just spun up a test port on 223.6600 1.2k. It's on a low (rooftop) and temporary antenna system. When they get better weather they are planning on installing the antenna up much higher on the tower. You might check and see if you can hear them, but I would imagine they will need another node between you.

      Jerry regarding your power situation/changes...

      Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

      I'd say most of your power is going to the PC and HF rigs. TNC's and idle rigs don't pull much juice. Putting more TX load on the HF rigs will not help with the electric bills. If you feel that's worth it, then great and that's your choice ;-) Like anything in this hobby, you have to prioritize what you want to do and where you want to spend your time and money. What appeals to one, may not appeal to another.

      Since BPQ32 and BBQBBS will run on some pretty modest hardware, you might consider getting one of the Intel Atom based PC/servers. They should have more than enough 'umph to run a node/BBS/RMS and they sip power vs making your local electric company happy ;-) Some of the older PC architectures/power supplies are anything but efficient.

      Moving on...

      Sorry I have not been following all these threads closely the last few days. I'm on a crazy travel/work/play schedule for the next few weeks. Might play with Winlink some, but doubt I'll have much time for BBS stuff.

      Most around here are saying forget the BBS, focus on the RMS/Winlink infrastructure. The ARRL has recently made it pretty clear where they feel the future is and we can agree or not but they did it. Some of what they've done irks me, but looking back at the last two years of this BBS stuff I guess I can sort of see their side of things.

      I have mixed feelings on this, but I'm starting to think it would be less headache to say "we tried," pull the plug on the BBS, and just go with the Winlink flow.

      All that said, I'm going to drop this before I let it become another one of Jeff's mini-novels. I'll revisit things after the holidays when I have time to digest all of these discussions better and stop to think about it more.

      Before I go, I'll post a link to a blog entry I did on blocking the RMS auto-updates.

      73
      Jeff
      WA4ZKO

      --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry" <n9lya@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jeff. and all.
      >
      >
      >
      > I severely curtailed (but not totally eliminated) any internet forwarding
      > except to u and aa9mm as I know both are working hard on RF links to me..
      > I seem to be using a lot of excessive power lately.. Mostly connecting to
      > stations on RF that already have what I have and we send nothing. I would
      > rather use that power actually sending and receiving messages..
      >
      >
      >
      > With my HF Packet working much better after I abandon the MFJ1274s in favor
      > of KAMs. and using Winmor and Pactor for BBS forwarding. I think I can
      > eliminate Internet forwarding and still have a large amount of messages
      > here..
      >
      >
      >
      > I have kept my links with the others I was forwarding to on Inet.. Just
      > limited what will pass down to very few..
      >
      >
      >
      > Not damming those that do.. Or those that do not..
      >
      >
      >
      > Just wanted to get back to where I was a couple years ago. ALL RF where
      > possible.. I believe enough of the stations I had forwarding with on Inet
      > will still get what I send and receive by other stations on the network.
      >
      >
      >
      > Realistically.. Everyone must understand my position.. I have 4 HF RF Ports
      > 3 are (SKIPNET) for forwarding and one a USER port. I have three VHF and 1
      > each 220 and 440 links. Turned back on.
      >
      >
      >
      > I also have the 746Pro running winmor and pactor.. HF BBS Forwarding. and
      > with the hard work of John and Richard and others on Robust Packet I may
      > have that running here as well once they get testing and debugging
      > completed. And a release going. Good job guys..
      >
      >
      >
      > If I am to maintain that as a viable system and not have it sitting here
      > doing nothing more then blinking and lighting up. and using electricity to
      > just verify my internet messages made it then.. I would have to shutdown the
      > RF side.. Not going to do that.
      >
      >
      >
      > My AXIP port is still open for any user access and CHAT etc.. Just turned
      > down the BBS forwarding over the Inet to the minimum..
      >
      >
      >
      > Anyone with a dire need to have me re-establish an internet feed to you
      > please email me off list and we can discuss it. I may not have realized
      > someone needs..
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I should not need the inet side open for forwarding for the January Test.
      > But anyone wishing to drop a message here via a direct connect may do so
      > over the INET.. c (axip_port) n9lya and do a SP w9sem ro your local BBS
      > address the message as follows.
      >
      > Sp w9sem@n9lya.#sin.in.usa.na and it will get there..
      >
      >
      >
      > Also especially any RF stations can do same connect on the RF port to n9lya
      > and sp w9sem @n9lya.#sin.in.usa.na (preferred method)..
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I have links all over the US and Canada a couple stations down below the
      > Gulf.. on RF using Packet and special links to CA and PA via Pactor and Many
      > states via WINMOR. OH IL etc.
      >
      >
      >
      > Anyone forwarding to me on Internet please limit what is sent - No
      > Bulletins. all else ok. For now.. J
      >
      >
      >
      > Many thanks to all.. 73 jerry n9lya
      >

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