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RE: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts

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  • Rick Muething
    Jeff, Both Pactor and WINMOR can send unproto (non ARQ) frames. These still use the built in FEC of these modes but of course cannot insure error free
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
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      Jeff,

       

      Both Pactor and WINMOR can send unproto (non ARQ) frames.  These still use the built in FEC of these modes but of course cannot insure error free reception without an ARQ channel.

       

      Although RMS Express does not currently use unproto frames I believe BPQ 32 will support it for both Pactor and WINMOR.

       

      Rick KN6KB

       

       


      From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jeff - WA4ZKO
      Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 8:07 AM
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts

       

       

      I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if so), but neither the Pactor or WinMOR protocols support sending UI frames. As such the BPQ switch is smart enough not to send them on a non-packet port. Nodes broadcasts would also fall into this category.

      You may see them on monitor, but they will go nowhere. Both the Pactor and WinMOR TNC components were designed much more towards "connected" mode links used for transfers versus the flexibility of packet links that many of us are used to.

      G8BPQ and others can probably elaborate/correct me if wrong.

      73
      Jeff
      WA4ZKO

      --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Z" <Howard_Z@...> wrote:

      >
      > hi,
      >
      > I find that RMS Packet can not beacon on BPQ's Pactor nor WINMOR.
      > RMS Packet displays that it is Beaconing on the ports, but I see no PTT on
      the radio.
      >
      > Am I doing something wrong? Or is this how it is supposed to work.
      >
      > Howard
      >

      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2905 - Release Date: 06/01/10 02:25:00

    • Jeff - WA4ZKO
      Would a typical pactor/winmor station see and display these UI frames while idle (running, but not connected) without any user intervention (being placed
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Would a typical pactor/winmor station see and display these "UI" frames while idle (running, but not connected) without any user intervention (being placed into a certain mode)?

        Guess what I'm getting at, is even if the "beacons" are sent, would the standard client software with default idle settings display them or ignore them?

        I also think since BPQ32 has to "attach" to the radio port for the pacotr/winmor ports....probably be foolish to do beacons and UI that way since it would keep the port listed as busy???? Plus would we want that much "node chatter/beacons" from lots of stations on freq congesting the HF spectrum?

        73
        Jeff
        WA4ZKO


        --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Muething" <rmuething@...> wrote:
        >
        > Jeff,
        >
        >
        >
        > Both Pactor and WINMOR can send unproto (non ARQ) frames. These still use
        > the built in FEC of these modes but of course cannot insure error free
        > reception without an ARQ channel.
        >
        >
        >
        > Although RMS Express does not currently use unproto frames I believe BPQ 32
        > will support it for both Pactor and WINMOR.
        >
        >
        >
        > Rick KN6KB
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
        > - WA4ZKO
        > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 8:07 AM
        > To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if so), but neither the
        > Pactor or WinMOR protocols support sending UI frames. As such the BPQ switch
        > is smart enough not to send them on a non-packet port. Nodes broadcasts
        > would also fall into this category.
        >
        > You may see them on monitor, but they will go nowhere. Both the Pactor and
        > WinMOR TNC components were designed much more towards "connected" mode links
        > used for transfers versus the flexibility of packet links that many of us
        > are used to.
        >
        > G8BPQ and others can probably elaborate/correct me if wrong.
        >
        > 73
        > Jeff
        > WA4ZKO
        >
        > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BPQ32%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard Z"
        > <Howard_Z@> wrote:
        > >
        > > hi,
        > >
        > > I find that RMS Packet can not beacon on BPQ's Pactor nor WINMOR.
        > > RMS Packet displays that it is Beaconing on the ports, but I see no PTT on
        > the radio.
        > >
        > > Am I doing something wrong? Or is this how it is supposed to work.
        > >
        > > Howard
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2905 - Release Date: 06/01/10
        > 02:25:00
        >
      • Howard Z
        Jeff, You have a good point. I tried the BEACONs only because I have nobody to test with - who will try to connect to my RMS with RMSExpress. If the Beacons
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Jeff,

          You have a good point.
          I tried the BEACONs only because I have nobody to test with - who will try to connect to my RMS with RMSExpress.

          If the Beacons transmitted, then I would at least know that the RMS to BPQ to radio XMT works.

          Since the beacon did not transmit, it is possible that either BPQ does not support it, or that I do not have BPQ setup properly. I have always found BPQ a bit complicated to setup.

          So, this is the question: Are beacons NOT supposed to get transmitted via BPQ WINMOR & Pactor? Or do I have a setup problem.

          Anyways, I agree that there is little/no need for beacons via Winmor or Pactor. Beacons are a packet tradition for BBS systems on VHF.

          Howard

          --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff - WA4ZKO" <wa4zko@...> wrote:
          >
          > Would a typical pactor/winmor station see and display these "UI" frames while idle (running, but not connected) without any user intervention (being placed into a certain mode)?
          >
          > Guess what I'm getting at, is even if the "beacons" are sent, would the standard client software with default idle settings display them or ignore them?
          >
          > I also think since BPQ32 has to "attach" to the radio port for the pacotr/winmor ports....probably be foolish to do beacons and UI that way since it would keep the port listed as busy???? Plus would we want that much "node chatter/beacons" from lots of stations on freq congesting the HF spectrum?
          >
          > 73
          > Jeff
          > WA4ZKO
          >
          >
          > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Muething" <rmuething@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Jeff,
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Both Pactor and WINMOR can send unproto (non ARQ) frames. These still use
          > > the built in FEC of these modes but of course cannot insure error free
          > > reception without an ARQ channel.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Although RMS Express does not currently use unproto frames I believe BPQ 32
          > > will support it for both Pactor and WINMOR.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Rick KN6KB
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _____
          > >
          > > From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
          > > - WA4ZKO
          > > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 8:07 AM
          > > To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if so), but neither the
          > > Pactor or WinMOR protocols support sending UI frames. As such the BPQ switch
          > > is smart enough not to send them on a non-packet port. Nodes broadcasts
          > > would also fall into this category.
          > >
          > > You may see them on monitor, but they will go nowhere. Both the Pactor and
          > > WinMOR TNC components were designed much more towards "connected" mode links
          > > used for transfers versus the flexibility of packet links that many of us
          > > are used to.
          > >
          > > G8BPQ and others can probably elaborate/correct me if wrong.
          > >
          > > 73
          > > Jeff
          > > WA4ZKO
          > >
          > > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BPQ32%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard Z"
          > > <Howard_Z@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > hi,
          > > >
          > > > I find that RMS Packet can not beacon on BPQ's Pactor nor WINMOR.
          > > > RMS Packet displays that it is Beaconing on the ports, but I see no PTT on
          > > the radio.
          > > >
          > > > Am I doing something wrong? Or is this how it is supposed to work.
          > > >
          > > > Howard
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2905 - Release Date: 06/01/10
          > > 02:25:00
          > >
          >
        • John Wiseman
          Howard, Beacons (in the normal ax.25 sense) are not sent on BPQ32 WINMOR or Pactor ports. WINMOR can be made to send ID frames, either by clicking the Send ID
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Message
            Howard,
             
            Beacons (in the normal ax.25 sense) are not sent on BPQ32 WINMOR or Pactor ports.
             
            WINMOR can be made to send ID frames, either by clicking the Send ID button on the WINMOR TNC, or by attaching the port, and issuing the SENDID command.
             
            You can also test your BPQ32-WINMOR setup by using the FEC mode.See Paragraph 3 of http://www.cantab.net/users/john.wiseman/Documents/Using%20WINMOR.htm. You can at least verify that the transmitter is being keyed.
             
            73,
            John
             
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Howard Z
            Sent: 01 June 2010 14:56
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts

             

            Jeff,

            You have a good point.
            I tried the BEACONs only because I have nobody to test with - who will try to connect to my RMS with RMSExpress.

            If the Beacons transmitted, then I would at least know that the RMS to BPQ to radio XMT works.

            Since the beacon did not transmit, it is possible that either BPQ does not support it, or that I do not have BPQ setup properly. I have always found BPQ a bit complicated to setup.

            So, this is the question: Are beacons NOT supposed to get transmitted via BPQ WINMOR & Pactor? Or do I have a setup problem.

            Anyways, I agree that there is little/no need for beacons via Winmor or Pactor. Beacons are a packet tradition for BBS systems on VHF.

            Howard

            --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff - WA4ZKO" <wa4zko@...> wrote:
            >
            > Would a typical pactor/winmor station see and display these "UI" frames while idle (running, but not connected) without any user intervention (being placed into a certain mode)?
            >
            > Guess what I'm getting at, is even if the "beacons" are sent, would the standard client software with default idle settings display them or ignore them?
            >
            > I also think since BPQ32 has to "attach" to the radio port for the pacotr/winmor ports....probably be foolish to do beacons and UI that way since it would keep the port listed as busy???? Plus would we want that much "node chatter/beacons" from lots of stations on freq congesting the HF spectrum?
            >
            > 73
            > Jeff
            > WA4ZKO
            >
            >
            > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Muething" <rmuething@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Jeff,
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Both Pactor and WINMOR can send unproto (non ARQ) frames. These still use
            > > the built in FEC of these modes but of course cannot insure error free
            > > reception without an ARQ channel.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Although RMS Express does not currently use unproto frames I believe BPQ 32
            > > will support it for both Pactor and WINMOR.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Rick KN6KB
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > > From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
            > > - WA4ZKO
            > > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 8:07 AM
            > > To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if so), but neither the
            > > Pactor or WinMOR protocols support sending UI frames. As such the BPQ switch
            > > is smart enough not to send them on a non-packet port. Nodes broadcasts
            > > would also fall into this category.
            > >
            > > You may see them on monitor, but they will go nowhere. Both the Pactor and
            > > WinMOR TNC components were designed much more towards "connected" mode links
            > > used for transfers versus the flexibility of packet links that many of us
            > > are used to.
            > >
            > > G8BPQ and others can probably elaborate/correct me if wrong.
            > >
            > > 73
            > > Jeff
            > > WA4ZKO
            > >
            > > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BPQ32%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard Z"
            > > <Howard_Z@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > hi,
            > > >
            > > > I find that RMS Packet can not beacon on BPQ's Pactor nor WINMOR.
            > > > RMS Packet displays that it is Beaconing on the ports, but I see no PTT on
            > > the radio.
            > > >
            > > > Am I doing something wrong? Or is this how it is supposed to work.
            > > >
            > > > Howard
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2905 - Release Date: 06/01/10
            > > 02:25:00
            > >
            >

          • Rick Muething
            Yes I agree with John ..beaconing on HF (Pactor or WINMOR) has generally been discouraged to reduce QRM. It would probably be more acceptable if it could be
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
            • 0 Attachment

              Yes I agree with John ….beaconing on HF (Pactor or WINMOR)  has generally been discouraged to reduce QRM.  It would probably be more acceptable if it could be conditioned on a “clear channel” condition based on some reasonably good busy detector.  The one in the SCS PTC II is not particularly sensitive to non pactor signals.  The WINMOR TNC busy detector is probably better in that regard.

               

              Rick KN6KB

               


              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Wiseman
              Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:56 AM
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts

               

               

              Howard,

               

              Beacons (in the normal ax.25 sense) are not sent on BPQ32 WINMOR or Pactor ports.

               

              WINMOR can be made to send ID frames, either by clicking the Send ID button on the WINMOR TNC, or by attaching the port, and issuing the SENDID command.

               

              You can also test your BPQ32-WINMOR setup by using the FEC mode.See Paragraph 3 of http://www.cantab. net/users/ john.wiseman/ Documents/ Using%20WINMOR. htm. You can at least verify that the transmitter is being keyed.

               

              73,

              John

               

               

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto: BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Howard Z
              Sent: 01 June 2010 14:56
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts

               

              Jeff,

              You have a good point.
              I tried the BEACONs only because I have nobody to test with - who will try to connect to my RMS with RMSExpress.

              If the Beacons transmitted, then I would at least know that the RMS to BPQ to radio XMT works.

              Since the beacon did not transmit, it is possible that either BPQ does not support it, or that I do not have BPQ setup properly. I have always found BPQ a bit complicated to setup.

              So, this is the question: Are beacons NOT supposed to get transmitted via BPQ WINMOR & Pactor? Or do I have a setup problem.

              Anyways, I agree that there is little/no need for beacons via Winmor or Pactor. Beacons are a packet tradition for BBS systems on VHF.

              Howard

              --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups. com, "Jeff - WA4ZKO" <wa4zko@...> wrote:
              >
              > Would a typical pactor/winmor station see and display these "UI" frames while idle (running, but not connected) without any user intervention (being placed into a certain mode)?
              >
              > Guess what I'm getting at, is even if the "beacons" are sent, would the standard client software with default idle settings display them or ignore them?
              >
              > I also think since BPQ32 has to "attach" to the radio port for the pacotr/winmor ports....probably be foolish to do beacons and UI that way since it would keep the port listed as busy???? Plus would we want that much "node chatter/beacons" from lots of stations on freq congesting the HF spectrum?
              >
              > 73
              > Jeff
              > WA4ZKO
              >
              >
              > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups. com, "Rick Muething" <rmuething@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Jeff,
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Both Pactor and WINMOR can send unproto (non ARQ) frames. These still use
              > > the built in FEC of these modes but of course cannot insure error free
              > > reception without an ARQ channel.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Although RMS Express does not currently use unproto frames I believe BPQ 32
              > > will support it for both Pactor and WINMOR.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Rick KN6KB
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jeff
              > > - WA4ZKO
              > > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 8:07 AM
              > > To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
              > > Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if so), but neither the
              > > Pactor or WinMOR protocols support sending UI frames. As such the BPQ switch
              > > is smart enough not to send them on a non-packet port. Nodes broadcasts
              > > would also fall into this category.
              > >
              > > You may see them on monitor, but they will go nowhere. Both the Pactor and
              > > WinMOR TNC components were designed much more towards "connected" mode links
              > > used for transfers versus the flexibility of packet links that many of us
              > > are used to.
              > >
              > > G8BPQ and others can probably elaborate/correct me if wrong.
              > >
              > > 73
              > > Jeff
              > > WA4ZKO
              > >
              > > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups. com <mailto:BPQ32% 40yahoogroups. com> , "Howard Z"
              > > <Howard_Z@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > hi,
              > > >
              > > > I find that RMS Packet can not beacon on BPQ's Pactor nor WINMOR.
              > > > RMS Packet displays that it is Beaconing on the ports, but I see no PTT on
              > > the radio.
              > > >
              > > > Am I doing something wrong? Or is this how it is supposed to work.
              > > >
              > > > Howard
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              > > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2905 - Release Date: 06/01/10
              > > 02:25:00
              > >
              >

              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2905 - Release Date: 06/01/10 02:25:00

            • Jerry - N9LYA
              Hi Jeff. That is how I see it and how I would expect it. So it looks normal to me. Jerry _____ From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment

                Hi Jeff… That is how I see it and how I would expect it… So it looks normal to me…

                 

                Jerry

                 


                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff - WA4ZKO
                Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 8:07 AM
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [BPQ32] Re: RMS Broadcasts

                 

                 

                I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if so), but neither the Pactor or WinMOR protocols support sending UI frames. As such the BPQ switch is smart enough not to send them on a non-packet port. Nodes broadcasts would also fall into this category.

                You may see them on monitor, but they will go nowhere. Both the Pactor and WinMOR TNC components were designed much more towards "connected" mode links used for transfers versus the flexibility of packet links that many of us are used to.

                G8BPQ and others can probably elaborate/correct me if wrong.

                73
                Jeff
                WA4ZKO

                --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Z" <Howard_Z@...> wrote:

                >
                > hi,
                >
                > I find that RMS Packet can not beacon on BPQ's Pactor nor WINMOR.
                > RMS Packet displays that it is Beaconing on the ports, but I see no PTT on
                the radio.
                >
                > Am I doing something wrong? Or is this how it is supposed to work.
                >
                > Howard
                >

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