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  • Jerry - N9LYA
    Our net on 14.098 is being inundated with what has to be classified as Malicious interference.. Unless.... N4ZKF tried to explain this a while ago.. What I am
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 9, 2010
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      Our net on 14.098 is being inundated with what has to be classified as Malicious interference.. Unless……….          

       

      N4ZKF tried to explain this a while ago..

       

      What I am seeing and hearing is a S9 - +20 signal a solid tone carrier… Like AM would sound like on sideband.

       

      No data no voice.. Just the tone..


      We are aiming antennas and MixW waterfalls in efforts to locate and ID this station…

       

      Anyone willing to help assist would be appreciated…

       

      We realize this maybe an accidental thing… But has been going on for sometime and seems to be triggered when ever anyone tries to forward at differing times of day…As though it was manually being keyed.

       

      If its accidental I hope we can help the ham fix his problems… Maybe someone is trying HF packet using AM instead of HF?  You know the benefit of a doubt thing…

       

       

       

       

       

      73 Jerry Kutche N9LYA

      ARRL Net Manager Indiana Section – Packet Net

      HF Skipnet Coordinator

      IP Coordinator Indiana

      Packet Coordinator Indiana

      http://www.n9lya.com

      http://www.w9otr.org

      http://www.indianapacketcouncil.org

      http://www.mitchellwx.com

       

    • Robert S. Fisher
      Don t know if your are familiar with WSPRNet. It is a propagation protocol started by K1JT. It is meant for low power qrp and very low qrp beaconing but I see
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 9, 2010
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        Don't know if your are familiar with WSPRNet. It is a propagation
        protocol started by K1JT. It is meant for low power qrp and very low qrp
        beaconing but I see a few stations use higher power. It sounds like a
        continious tone. The confirmation is if it what your are hearing is
        lasting exactly 2 minutes and starts right at the start of a minute UTC
        and ends on the minute than it is WSPRNet. The designated base freq is
        14.0956 but I see in the activity log there have been some as high as
        14.097165. Of course it is only 50 hz wide or less and would show up on
        your waterfall as a solid line about the width of psk. Probably not what
        you have going but wanted to make sure you are aware of WSPRNet. My
        BBS/RMS at 3595khz is just above the WSPRNet 80 meter freq.

        Rob

        Jerry - N9LYA wrote:
        >
        > Our net on 14.098 is being inundated with what has to be classified as
        > Malicious interference.. Unless……….
        >
        > N4ZKF tried to explain this a while ago..
        >
        > What I am seeing and hearing is a S9 - +20 signal a solid tone
        > carrier… Like AM would sound like on sideband.
        >
        > No data no voice.. Just the tone..
        >
        >
        > We are aiming antennas and MixW waterfalls in efforts to locate and ID
        > this station…
        >
        > Anyone willing to help assist would be appreciated…
        >
        > We realize this maybe an accidental thing… But has been going on for
        > sometime and seems to be triggered when ever anyone tries to forward
        > at differing times of day…As though it was manually being keyed.
        >
        > If its accidental I hope we can help the ham fix his problems… Maybe
        > someone is trying HF packet using AM instead of HF? You know the
        > benefit of a doubt thing…
        >
        > *73 Jerry Kutche N9LYA*
        >
        > ARRL Net Manager Indiana Section – Packet Net
        >
        > HF Skipnet Coordinator
        >
        > IP Coordinator Indiana
        >
        > Packet Coordinator Indiana
        >
        > http://www.n9lya.com <http://www.n9lya.com/>
        >
        > http://www.w9otr.org <http://www.w9otr.org/>
        >
        > http://www.indianapacketcouncil.org <http://www.indianapacketcouncil.org/>
        >
        > http://www.mitchellwx.com <http://www.mitchellwx.com/>
        >
        >
      • D. Calder
        Worth a shot to find out. I always thought it was a locked up TNC or machine that was on our net with us. Maybe I m wrong. It was so bad last week, I shut my
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 10, 2010
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          Worth a shot to find out. I always thought it was a locked up TNC or machine
          that was on our net with us. Maybe I'm wrong.

          It was so bad last week, I shut my 20 Meter port radio off for 2 days. (not
          that the band was any good anyways) Hi.

          73 Dave n4zkf


          -----Original Message-----
          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Robert S. Fisher
          Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 1:49 AM
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] Skipnet

          Don't know if your are familiar with WSPRNet. It is a propagation
          protocol started by K1JT. It is meant for low power qrp and very low qrp
          beaconing but I see a few stations use higher power. It sounds like a
          continious tone. The confirmation is if it what your are hearing is
          lasting exactly 2 minutes and starts right at the start of a minute UTC
          and ends on the minute than it is WSPRNet. The designated base freq is
          14.0956 but I see in the activity log there have been some as high as
          14.097165. Of course it is only 50 hz wide or less and would show up on
          your waterfall as a solid line about the width of psk. Probably not what
          you have going but wanted to make sure you are aware of WSPRNet. My
          BBS/RMS at 3595khz is just above the WSPRNet 80 meter freq.

          Rob

          Jerry - N9LYA wrote:
          >
          > Our net on 14.098 is being inundated with what has to be classified as
          > Malicious interference.. Unless....
          >
          > N4ZKF tried to explain this a while ago..
          >
          > What I am seeing and hearing is a S9 - +20 signal a solid tone
          > carrier. Like AM would sound like on sideband.
          >
          > No data no voice.. Just the tone..
          >
          >
          > We are aiming antennas and MixW waterfalls in efforts to locate and ID
          > this station.
          >
          > Anyone willing to help assist would be appreciated.
          >
          > We realize this maybe an accidental thing. But has been going on for
          > sometime and seems to be triggered when ever anyone tries to forward
          > at differing times of day.As though it was manually being keyed.
          >
          > If its accidental I hope we can help the ham fix his problems. Maybe
          > someone is trying HF packet using AM instead of HF? You know the
          > benefit of a doubt thing.
          >
          > *73 Jerry Kutche N9LYA*
          >
          > ARRL Net Manager Indiana Section - Packet Net
          >
          > HF Skipnet Coordinator
          >
          > IP Coordinator Indiana
          >
          > Packet Coordinator Indiana
          >
          > http://www.n9lya.com <http://www.n9lya.com/>
          >
          > http://www.w9otr.org <http://www.w9otr.org/>
          >
          > http://www.indianapacketcouncil.org <http://www.indianapacketcouncil.org/>
          >
          > http://www.mitchellwx.com <http://www.mitchellwx.com/>
          >
          >



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Jeff - WA4ZKO
          That s a possibility, but you would think it would of showed up before now. The 14.098 LSB operations seem to be down about 150 or so on 14.09785 LSB dial from
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 10, 2010
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            That's a possibility, but you would think it would of showed up before now. The 14.098 LSB operations seem to be down about 150 or so on 14.09785 LSB dial from my monitoring, this would put the CF right around 14.09615.

            From this page it looks like most of their signals should be in the 14.0971** area:

            http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/activity

            Not a real well thought out frequency choice IMHO. Not like the digital segment on 20m is as crowded (outside of digitalcontest weekends when you can kiss it goodbye) as some of our other bands...surely a better spot could of been found....especially for stuff that is going to be this active airtime wise.

            Looks like some sort of WSPR contest/special event this weekend on 20m with a focus on 500mw operation:

            http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map

            Like Robert said, should be unique and easy to ID due to it's cycling/start times and very narrow bandwidth on a waterfall.

            Just installed the WSPR software this morning, may do some monitoring this afternoon.

            73
            Jeff
            WA4ZKO


            --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Robert S. Fisher" <rsfisher@...> wrote:
            >
            > Don't know if your are familiar with WSPRNet. It is a propagation
            > protocol started by K1JT. It is meant for low power qrp and very low qrp
            > beaconing but I see a few stations use higher power. It sounds like a
            > continious tone. The confirmation is if it what your are hearing is
            > lasting exactly 2 minutes and starts right at the start of a minute UTC
            > and ends on the minute than it is WSPRNet. The designated base freq is
            > 14.0956 but I see in the activity log there have been some as high as
            > 14.097165. Of course it is only 50 hz wide or less and would show up on
            > your waterfall as a solid line about the width of psk. Probably not what
            > you have going but wanted to make sure you are aware of WSPRNet. My
            > BBS/RMS at 3595khz is just above the WSPRNet 80 meter freq.
            >
            > Rob
            >
            > Jerry - N9LYA wrote:
            > >
            > > Our net on 14.098 is being inundated with what has to be classified as
            > > Malicious interference.. Unless……….
            > >
            > > N4ZKF tried to explain this a while ago..
            > >
            > > What I am seeing and hearing is a S9 - +20 signal a solid tone
            > > carrier… Like AM would sound like on sideband.
            > >
            > > No data no voice.. Just the tone..
            > >
            > >
            > > We are aiming antennas and MixW waterfalls in efforts to locate and ID
            > > this station…
            > >
            > > Anyone willing to help assist would be appreciated…
            > >
            > > We realize this maybe an accidental thing… But has been going on for
            > > sometime and seems to be triggered when ever anyone tries to forward
            > > at differing times of day…As though it was manually being keyed.
            > >
            > > If its accidental I hope we can help the ham fix his problems… Maybe
            > > someone is trying HF packet using AM instead of HF? You know the
            > > benefit of a doubt thing…
            > >
            > > *73 Jerry Kutche N9LYA*
            > >
            > > ARRL Net Manager Indiana Section – Packet Net
            > >
            > > HF Skipnet Coordinator
            > >
            > > IP Coordinator Indiana
            > >
            > > Packet Coordinator Indiana
            > >
            > > http://www.n9lya.com <http://www.n9lya.com/>
            > >
            > > http://www.w9otr.org <http://www.w9otr.org/>
            > >
            > > http://www.indianapacketcouncil.org <http://www.indianapacketcouncil.org/>
            > >
            > > http://www.mitchellwx.com <http://www.mitchellwx.com/>
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Jerry - N9LYA
            Our dial freq is and has been for a long time 14.09785LSB. Net098 is really just a name.. Net 09785 would sound silly. lol 73 jerry _____ From:
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 10, 2010
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              Our dial freq is and has been for a long time 14.09785LSB…

               

              Net098 is really just a name.. Net 09785 would sound silly… lol

               

              73 jerry

               


              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff - WA4ZKO
              Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:09 AM
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [BPQ32] Re: Skipnet

               

               

              That's a possibility, but you would think it would of showed up before now. The 14.098 LSB operations seem to be down about 150 or so on 14.09785 LSB dial from my monitoring, this would put the CF right around 14.09615.

              From this page it looks like most of their signals should be in the 14.0971** area:

              http://wsprnet. org/drupal/ wsprnet/activity

              Not a real well thought out frequency choice IMHO. Not like the digital segment on 20m is as crowded (outside of digitalcontest weekends when you can kiss it goodbye) as some of our other bands...surely a better spot could of been found....especially for stuff that is going to be this active airtime wise.

              Looks like some sort of WSPR contest/special event this weekend on 20m with a focus on 500mw operation:

              http://wsprnet. org/drupal/ wsprnet/map

              Like Robert said, should be unique and easy to ID due to it's cycling/start times and very narrow bandwidth on a waterfall.

              Just installed the WSPR software this morning, may do some monitoring this afternoon.

              73
              Jeff
              WA4ZKO

              --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups. com, "Robert S. Fisher" <rsfisher@.. .> wrote:

              >
              > Don't know if your are familiar with WSPRNet. It is a propagation
              > protocol started by K1JT. It is meant for low power qrp and very low qrp
              > beaconing but I see a few stations use higher power. It sounds like a
              > continious tone. The confirmation is if it what your are hearing is
              > lasting exactly 2 minutes and starts right at the start of a minute UTC
              > and ends on the minute than it is WSPRNet. The designated base freq is
              > 14.0956 but I see in the activity log there have been some as high as
              > 14.097165. Of course it is only 50 hz wide or less and would show up on
              > your waterfall as a solid line about the width of psk. Probably not what
              > you have going but wanted to make sure you are aware of WSPRNet. My
              > BBS/RMS at 3595khz is just above the WSPRNet 80 meter freq.
              >
              > Rob
              >
              > Jerry - N9LYA wrote:
              > >
              > > Our net on 14.098 is being inundated with what has to be classified
              as
              > > Malicious interference. . Unless……….
              > >
              > > N4ZKF tried to explain this a while ago..
              > >
              > > What I am seeing and hearing is a S9 - +20 signal a solid tone
              > > carrier… Like AM would sound like on sideband.
              > >
              > > No data no voice.. Just the tone..
              > >
              > >
              > > We are aiming antennas and MixW waterfalls in efforts to locate and
              ID
              > > this station…
              > >
              > > Anyone willing to help assist would be appreciated…
              > >
              > > We realize this maybe an accidental thing… But has been going
              on for
              > > sometime and seems to be triggered when ever anyone tries to forward
              > > at differing times of day…As though it was manually being
              keyed.
              > >
              > > If its accidental I hope we can help the ham fix his problems…
              Maybe
              > > someone is trying HF packet using AM instead of HF? You know the
              > > benefit of a doubt thing…
              > >
              > > *73 Jerry Kutche N9LYA*
              > >
              > > ARRL Net Manager Indiana Section – Packet Net
              > >
              > > HF Skipnet Coordinator
              > >
              > > IP Coordinator Indiana
              > >
              > > Packet Coordinator Indiana
              > >
              > > http://www.n9lya. com <
              href="http://www.n9lya.com/">http://www.n9lya. com/>
              > >
              > > http://www.w9otr. org <
              href="http://www.w9otr.org/">http://www.w9otr. org/>
              > >
              > > http://www.indianap acketcouncil. org
              <http://www.indianap acketcouncil. org/>
              > >
              > > http://www.mitchell wx.com
              <http://www.mitchell wx.com/>
              > >
              > >
              >

            • Jerry - N9LYA
              Jeff.. I will look over the website.. But from what I saw yesterday,,, The system/person does not listen to see if the freq is clear.. As they would squash
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 10, 2010
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                Jeff.. I will look over the website.. But from what I saw yesterday,,, The system/person does not listen to see if the freq is clear.. As they would squash many an on going qso on the net….

                 

                Would help if we had an understanding of what their system is supposed to do.. maybe someone has something set wrong… And can clear up the problem…

                 

                Oh it had not been all of a sudden.. n4zkf can probably remember when this all started better then I but its been going on for some time… 

                 

                 

                73 jerry

                 

                 

                 


                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff - WA4ZKO
                Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:09 AM
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [BPQ32] Re: Skipnet

                 

                 

                That's a possibility, but you would think it would of showed up before now. The 14.098 LSB operations seem to be down about 150 or so on 14.09785 LSB dial from my monitoring, this would put the CF right around 14.09615.

                From this page it looks like most of their signals should be in the 14.0971** area:

                http://wsprnet. org/drupal/ wsprnet/activity

                Not a real well thought out frequency choice IMHO. Not like the digital segment on 20m is as crowded (outside of digitalcontest weekends when you can kiss it goodbye) as some of our other bands...surely a better spot could of been found....especially for stuff that is going to be this active airtime wise.

                Looks like some sort of WSPR contest/special event this weekend on 20m with a focus on 500mw operation:

                http://wsprnet. org/drupal/ wsprnet/map

                Like Robert said, should be unique and easy to ID due to it's cycling/start times and very narrow bandwidth on a waterfall.

                Just installed the WSPR software this morning, may do some monitoring this afternoon.

                73
                Jeff
                WA4ZKO

                --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups. com, "Robert S. Fisher" <rsfisher@.. .> wrote:

                >
                > Don't know if your are familiar with WSPRNet. It is a propagation
                > protocol started by K1JT. It is meant for low power qrp and very low qrp
                > beaconing but I see a few stations use higher power. It sounds like a
                > continious tone. The confirmation is if it what your are hearing is
                > lasting exactly 2 minutes and starts right at the start of a minute UTC
                > and ends on the minute than it is WSPRNet. The designated base freq is
                > 14.0956 but I see in the activity log there have been some as high as
                > 14.097165. Of course it is only 50 hz wide or less and would show up on
                > your waterfall as a solid line about the width of psk. Probably not what
                > you have going but wanted to make sure you are aware of WSPRNet. My
                > BBS/RMS at 3595khz is just above the WSPRNet 80 meter freq.
                >
                > Rob
                >
                > Jerry - N9LYA wrote:
                > >
                > > Our net on 14.098 is being inundated with what has to be classified
                as
                > > Malicious interference. . Unless……….
                > >
                > > N4ZKF tried to explain this a while ago..
                > >
                > > What I am seeing and hearing is a S9 - +20 signal a solid tone
                > > carrier… Like AM would sound like on sideband.
                > >
                > > No data no voice.. Just the tone..
                > >
                > >
                > > We are aiming antennas and MixW waterfalls in efforts to locate and
                ID
                > > this station…
                > >
                > > Anyone willing to help assist would be appreciated…
                > >
                > > We realize this maybe an accidental thing… But has been going
                on for
                > > sometime and seems to be triggered when ever anyone tries to forward
                > > at differing times of day…As though it was manually being
                keyed.
                > >
                > > If its accidental I hope we can help the ham fix his problems…
                Maybe
                > > someone is trying HF packet using AM instead of HF? You know the
                > > benefit of a doubt thing…
                > >
                > > *73 Jerry Kutche N9LYA*
                > >
                > > ARRL Net Manager Indiana Section – Packet Net
                > >
                > > HF Skipnet Coordinator
                > >
                > > IP Coordinator Indiana
                > >
                > > Packet Coordinator Indiana
                > >
                > > http://www.n9lya. com <
                href="http://www.n9lya.com/">http://www.n9lya. com/>
                > >
                > > http://www.w9otr. org <
                href="http://www.w9otr.org/">http://www.w9otr. org/>
                > >
                > > http://www.indianap acketcouncil. org
                <http://www.indianap acketcouncil. org/>
                > >
                > > http://www.mitchell wx.com
                <http://www.mitchell wx.com/>
                > >
                > >
                >

              • Jeff - WA4ZKO
                Jerry & all... Just from reviewing this: http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/WSPR_2.0_User.pdf I don t see that there is any busy channel detection
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 10, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jerry & all...

                  Just from reviewing this:

                  http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/WSPR_2.0_User.pdf

                  I don't see that there is any "busy channel" detection going on. It's automated and tx is just timed then it listens for WSPR signals for a bit.

                  I'm fairly certain now that you guys are probably getting some QRM from this frequency choice they made if you're using a standard rx passband. You described the QRM as AM like, how wide does it appear to be in a waterfall display. WSPR should look like very narrowband FSK...thin line on a 2500 hz passband display.

                  Looks like they are using a very tight 200 Hz software passband approach. So your packet modulation several hundred Hz away is probably going unnoticed amongst all the other mod' products floating around in just about any 2.5 Khz of our HF digital spectrum anymore.

                  Some of the WSPR guru's could probably offer more insight.

                  Explains why they are in the automated operation subband, but a bad freq choice (IMHO). Then again, you can't hardly find a spot on our very crowded digital sub-bands where you don't get (unintentional) QRM from/to someone when running in automatic mode. If you pick a spot today and all are happy, months later someone else will be fussin' grin. A problem that will only get worse as more and more "modes" come out and folks wanting "their area" to camp out within already overcrowded spectrum.

                  Personally with unique nature of the HF noise floor and the wide variety of digital modes in use, I just don't think we'll ever see a busy channel detector that works well...beyond the human ear. That's why I feel our current HF digital "automated" band-plan approach is pretty flawed...not that I have an easy fix though. Unintentional QRM on/to automated systems is just going to be the nature of the beast.

                  For now I think we're probably better off just focusing on tighter rx passband filtering. Folks running with wide rx passbands are just..well frankly...asking for problems ;-) Yeah it's not a complete fix, but it can help in many cases.

                  Ok on the NET098 name versus actual freq...I understand now ;-)


                  73
                  Jeff
                  WA4ZKO



                  --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry - N9LYA" <n9lya@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jeff.. I will look over the website.. But from what I saw yesterday,,, The
                  > system/person does not listen to see if the freq is clear.. As they would
                  > squash many an on going qso on the net..
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Would help if we had an understanding of what their system is supposed to
                  > do.. maybe someone has something set wrong. And can clear up the problem.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Oh it had not been all of a sudden.. n4zkf can probably remember when this
                  > all started better then I but its been going on for some time.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 73 jerry
                  >
                • Robert S. Fisher
                  Gentlemen, There is no busy indicator in WSPR. I have experimented with the mode this winter. Enjoyed sending out 160 meter beacons and then looking on the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 10, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Gentlemen,

                    There is no busy indicator in WSPR. I have experimented with the mode
                    this winter. Enjoyed sending out 160 meter beacons and then looking on
                    the following website:

                    http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/activity

                    and then looking to see who heard my signal. It is a mode meant for low
                    power qrp propagation studies. The software uses the soundcard and is a
                    very narrow band FSK. Data in the signal include callsign of sender,
                    Grid Locator and power output in dbm. You set up the software to only
                    listen and decode or additionally transmit a 2 minute beacon
                    periodically. All received data gets uploaded to the above website. The
                    idea that being so narrow and low power that it should do very little qrm.

                    In my experimenting this winter the 5 watts or lower is enough to met
                    the intent of the mode. However I have seen 100 watt stations which is
                    not in the spirit of the mode. I have my BPQ node on 3595khz and the
                    wspr activity is just below my Winmor,Pactor passband. Most stations are
                    just above noise (quite adequate for the mode) but there is a station
                    that put outs 100 watts and "burns" a line in my waterfall. It is these
                    guys that cause the real interference. I do tighten up the filters and
                    are not bothered by him.

                    The mode has been around for a year or so. It has only been recently
                    that some "lids" have started using the mode and going above 5 watts.

                    When you hear the signal, note the time. If it last two minutes it is
                    WSPR. While listening to it go to

                    http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/spots

                    Specify the Band as 20 meter and within a minute you will see all spots
                    of activity on that band. (you can hit your browser refresh also to see
                    if it has updated) You should be able to determine the offending station
                    this way. I bet they will be running more than 5 watts. If fact it is
                    probably the guy in CN85no at 100 watts. The high power signal I get on
                    80 is from the same grid square.

                    Rob


                    Jeff - WA4ZKO wrote:
                    >
                    > Jerry & all...
                    >
                    > Just from reviewing this:
                    >
                    > http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/WSPR_2.0_User.pdf
                    > <http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/WSPR_2.0_User.pdf>
                    >
                    > I don't see that there is any "busy channel" detection going on. It's
                    > automated and tx is just timed then it listens for WSPR signals for a
                    > bit.
                    >
                    > I'm fairly certain now that you guys are probably getting some QRM
                    > from this frequency choice they made if you're using a standard rx
                    > passband. You described the QRM as AM like, how wide does it appear to
                    > be in a waterfall display. WSPR should look like very narrowband
                    > FSK...thin line on a 2500 hz passband display.
                    >
                    > Looks like they are using a very tight 200 Hz software passband
                    > approach. So your packet modulation several hundred Hz away is
                    > probably going unnoticed amongst all the other mod' products floating
                    > around in just about any 2.5 Khz of our HF digital spectrum anymore.
                    >
                    > Some of the WSPR guru's could probably offer more insight.
                    >
                    > Explains why they are in the automated operation subband, but a bad
                    > freq choice (IMHO). Then again, you can't hardly find a spot on our
                    > very crowded digital sub-bands where you don't get (unintentional) QRM
                    > from/to someone when running in automatic mode. If you pick a spot
                    > today and all are happy, months later someone else will be fussin'
                    > grin. A problem that will only get worse as more and more "modes" come
                    > out and folks wanting "their area" to camp out within already
                    > overcrowded spectrum.
                    >
                    > Personally with unique nature of the HF noise floor and the wide
                    > variety of digital modes in use, I just don't think we'll ever see a
                    > busy channel detector that works well...beyond the human ear. That's
                    > why I feel our current HF digital "automated" band-plan approach is
                    > pretty flawed...not that I have an easy fix though. Unintentional QRM
                    > on/to automated systems is just going to be the nature of the beast.
                    >
                    > For now I think we're probably better off just focusing on tighter rx
                    > passband filtering. Folks running with wide rx passbands are
                    > just..well frankly...asking for problems ;-) Yeah it's not a complete
                    > fix, but it can help in many cases.
                    >
                    > Ok on the NET098 name versus actual freq...I understand now ;-)
                    >
                    > 73
                    > Jeff
                    > WA4ZKO
                    >
                    > --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BPQ32%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jerry
                    > - N9LYA" <n9lya@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Jeff.. I will look over the website.. But from what I saw
                    > yesterday,,, The
                    > > system/person does not listen to see if the freq is clear.. As they
                    > would
                    > > squash many an on going qso on the net..
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Would help if we had an understanding of what their system is
                    > supposed to
                    > > do.. maybe someone has something set wrong. And can clear up the
                    > problem.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Oh it had not been all of a sudden.. n4zkf can probably remember
                    > when this
                    > > all started better then I but its been going on for some time.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > 73 jerry
                    > >
                    >
                    >
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