Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

Expand Messages
  • peter joseph
    hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,     Peter ... From: John Wiseman Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new
    Message 1 of 8 , May 4, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter

      From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,
          Peter


      --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...> wrote:
      From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...>
      Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:51 PM

      
      If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick's workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem has ever been seen in real life compressed mail? I calculate the odds of a particular 40 bit sequence occuring by chance as 2 ** 40, or around a trillion to one. Of course it is much more likely in plain text - a message reportnig the problem couldn't be sent!
       
      If anyone using a D710 is having this problem, i'd be happy to fix it immediately, otherwise I'll add Rick's workaround next time I change the code.
       
      73,
      John G8BPQ
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl
      Sent: 01 May 2009 16:27
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

      Rick and Bill

      I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

      Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

      I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

      It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

      Ron, N5IN


      From: Rick Muething <rmuething@cfl. rr.com>
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
      Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

      Bill/All

       

      The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

       

      One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

       

      The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

       

      73,

       

      Rick Muething, KN6KB

      Winlink Development Team

       


      From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
      Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

       




      I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

       

       

       

      Robby/W5SEG



      --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

      From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
      Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
      Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

      The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
      TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

      Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

      It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

      I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
      KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

      If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
      "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
      Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

      73
      Bill - WA7NWP

      -----
      From an APRS group:

      Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
      special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
      cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
      sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

      Bill

      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

    • John Wiseman
      Peter, My understanding is that the D700 has a very small serial buffer, so can t be used for anything other than small UI frames, such as ARPS, but I d be
      Message 2 of 8 , May 4, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        
        Peter,
         
        My understanding is that the D700 has a very small serial buffer, so can't be used for anything other than small UI frames, such as ARPS, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has more information.
         
        73,
        John
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of peter joseph
        Sent: 04 May 2009 18:11
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

        hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter

        From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,
            Peter


        --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com> wrote:
        From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com>
        Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:51 PM

        
        If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick's workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem has ever been seen in real life compressed mail? I calculate the odds of a particular 40 bit sequence occuring by chance as 2 ** 40, or around a trillion to one. Of course it is much more likely in plain text - a message reportnig the problem couldn't be sent!
         
        If anyone using a D710 is having this problem, i'd be happy to fix it immediately, otherwise I'll add Rick's workaround next time I change the code.
         
        73,
        John G8BPQ
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl
        Sent: 01 May 2009 16:27
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

        Rick and Bill

        I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

        Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

        I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

        It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

        Ron, N5IN


        From: Rick Muething <rmuething@cfl. rr.com>
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
        Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

        Bill/All

         

        The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

         

        One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

         

        The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

         

        73,

         

        Rick Muething, KN6KB

        Winlink Development Team


        From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
        Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???




        Bill

        I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

         

         

         

        Robby/W5SEG



        --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

        From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
        Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

        The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
        TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

        Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

        It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

        I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
        KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

        If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
        "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
        Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

        73
        Bill - WA7NWP

        -----
        From an APRS group:

        Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
        special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
        cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
        sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

      • Art Bertheaume
        Hello John and Perter,   We have been using D-700 s in several locations with BPQ and F6FBB 7.00e.  These are located at County and town level EOC s. 
        Message 3 of 8 , May 4, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello John and Perter,
            We have been using D-700's in several locations with BPQ and F6FBB 7.00e.  These are located at County and town level EOC's.  Although not the most effeciant,  they will work. The thing to do is limit MAXFRAME = 2  and PACLEN was set to 175.
           
            73
          Art,  N9ZZK 
           
          .

          --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...> wrote:
          From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...>
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:24 PM

          
          Peter,
           
          My understanding is that the D700 has a very small serial buffer, so can't be used for anything other than small UI frames, such as ARPS, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has more information.
           
          73,
          John
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of peter joseph
          Sent: 04 May 2009 18:11
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

          The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

           

          73,

           

          Rick Muething, KN6KB

          Winlink Development Team


          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
          Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???




          hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter

          From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,
              Peter


          --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com> wrote:
          From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com>
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:51 PM

          
          If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick's workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem has ever been seen in real life compressed mail? I calculate the odds of a particular 40 bit sequence occuring by chance as 2 ** 40, or around a trillion to one. Of course it is much more likely in plain text - a message reportnig the problem couldn't be sent!
           
          If anyone using a D710 is having this problem, i'd be happy to fix it immediately, otherwise I'll add Rick's workaround next time I change the code.
           
          73,
          John G8BPQ
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl
          Sent: 01 May 2009 16:27
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

          Rick and Bill

          I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

          Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

          I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

          It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

          Ron, N5IN


          From: Rick Muething <rmuething@cfl. rr.com>
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

          Bill/All

           

          The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

           

          One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

           

          I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

           

           

           

          Robby/W5SEG



          --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

          From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
          Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

          The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
          TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

          Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

          It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

          I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
          KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

          If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
          "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
          Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

          73
          Bill - WA7NWP

          -----
          From an APRS group:

          Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
          special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
          cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
          sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

          Bill

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.