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new version of KISS???

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  • Bill Vodall WA7NWP
    The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow. Is any body using one for packet? Planning on
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 30, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
      TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

      Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

      It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

      I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
      KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

      If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
      "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated...
      Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

      73
      Bill - WA7NWP

      -----
      From an APRS group:

      Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
      special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
      cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
      sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)
    • T L Roberson
      Bill I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 30, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Bill
        I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.
         
         
         
        Robby/W5SEG


        --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@...> wrote:
        From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@...>
        Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

        The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
        TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

        Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

        It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

        I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
        KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

        If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
        "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
        Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

        73
        Bill - WA7NWP

        -----
        From an APRS group:

        Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
        special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
        cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
        sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)
      • Rick Muething
        Bill/All The 710 bug is not a violation of the KISS protocol.it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control.
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 30, 2009
        • 0 Attachment

          Bill/All

           

          The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

           

          One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

           

          The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

           

          73,

           

          Rick Muething, KN6KB

          Winlink Development Team

           


          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
          Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

           




          Bill

          I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

           

           

           

          Robby/W5SEG



          --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

          From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
          Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

          The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
          TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

          Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

          It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

          I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
          KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

          If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
          "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
          Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

          73
          Bill - WA7NWP

          -----
          From an APRS group:

          Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
          special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
          cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
          sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

        • Ron Stordahl
          Rick and Bill I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. Has this been discussed on other forums? Such as TAPR, aprssig,
          Message 4 of 8 , May 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Rick and Bill

            I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

            Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

            I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

            It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

            Ron, N5IN


            From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
            Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

            Bill/All

             

            The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

             

            One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

             

            The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

             

            73,

             

            Rick Muething, KN6KB

            Winlink Development Team

             


            From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
            Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

             




            Bill

            I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

             

             

             

            Robby/W5SEG



            --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

            From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
            Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
            Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

            The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
            TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

            Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

            It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

            I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
            KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

            If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
            "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
            Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

            73
            Bill - WA7NWP

            -----
            From an APRS group:

            Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
            special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
            cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
            sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

          • John Wiseman
            If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick s workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem
            Message 5 of 8 , May 4, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              
              If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick's workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem has ever been seen in real life compressed mail? I calculate the odds of a particular 40 bit sequence occuring by chance as 2 ** 40, or around a trillion to one. Of course it is much more likely in plain text - a message reportnig the problem couldn't be sent!
               
              If anyone using a D710 is having this problem, i'd be happy to fix it immediately, otherwise I'll add Rick's workaround next time I change the code.
               
              73,
              John G8BPQ
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl
              Sent: 01 May 2009 16:27
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

              Rick and Bill

              I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

              Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

              I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

              It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

              Ron, N5IN


              From: Rick Muething <rmuething@cfl. rr.com>
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
              Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

              Bill/All

               

              The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

               

              One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

               

              The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

               

              73,

               

              Rick Muething, KN6KB

              Winlink Development Team

               


              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
              Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

               




              Bill

              I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

               

               

               

              Robby/W5SEG



              --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

              From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
              Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
              Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

              The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
              TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

              Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

              It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

              I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
              KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

              If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
              "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
              Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

              73
              Bill - WA7NWP

              -----
              From an APRS group:

              Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
              special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
              cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
              sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

            • peter joseph
              hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,     Peter ... From: John Wiseman Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new
              Message 6 of 8 , May 4, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter

                From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,
                    Peter


                --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...> wrote:
                From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...>
                Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:51 PM

                
                If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick's workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem has ever been seen in real life compressed mail? I calculate the odds of a particular 40 bit sequence occuring by chance as 2 ** 40, or around a trillion to one. Of course it is much more likely in plain text - a message reportnig the problem couldn't be sent!
                 
                If anyone using a D710 is having this problem, i'd be happy to fix it immediately, otherwise I'll add Rick's workaround next time I change the code.
                 
                73,
                John G8BPQ
                 
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl
                Sent: 01 May 2009 16:27
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                Rick and Bill

                I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

                Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

                I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

                It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

                Ron, N5IN


                From: Rick Muething <rmuething@cfl. rr.com>
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
                Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                Bill/All

                 

                The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

                 

                One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

                 

                The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

                 

                73,

                 

                Rick Muething, KN6KB

                Winlink Development Team

                 


                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
                Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                 




                I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

                 

                 

                 

                Robby/W5SEG



                --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

                From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
                Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

                The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
                TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

                Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

                It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

                I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
                KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

                If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
                "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
                Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

                73
                Bill - WA7NWP

                -----
                From an APRS group:

                Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
                special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
                cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
                sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

                Bill

                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

              • John Wiseman
                Peter, My understanding is that the D700 has a very small serial buffer, so can t be used for anything other than small UI frames, such as ARPS, but I d be
                Message 7 of 8 , May 4, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  
                  Peter,
                   
                  My understanding is that the D700 has a very small serial buffer, so can't be used for anything other than small UI frames, such as ARPS, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has more information.
                   
                  73,
                  John
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of peter joseph
                  Sent: 04 May 2009 18:11
                  To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                  hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter

                  From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,
                      Peter


                  --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com> wrote:
                  From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com>
                  Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
                  To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:51 PM

                  
                  If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick's workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem has ever been seen in real life compressed mail? I calculate the odds of a particular 40 bit sequence occuring by chance as 2 ** 40, or around a trillion to one. Of course it is much more likely in plain text - a message reportnig the problem couldn't be sent!
                   
                  If anyone using a D710 is having this problem, i'd be happy to fix it immediately, otherwise I'll add Rick's workaround next time I change the code.
                   
                  73,
                  John G8BPQ
                   
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl
                  Sent: 01 May 2009 16:27
                  To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                  Rick and Bill

                  I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

                  Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

                  I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

                  It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

                  Ron, N5IN


                  From: Rick Muething <rmuething@cfl. rr.com>
                  To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
                  Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                  Bill/All

                   

                  The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

                   

                  One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

                   

                  The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

                   

                  73,

                   

                  Rick Muething, KN6KB

                  Winlink Development Team


                  From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
                  Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
                  To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???




                  Bill

                  I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

                   

                   

                   

                  Robby/W5SEG



                  --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

                  From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
                  Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
                  To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

                  The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
                  TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

                  Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

                  It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

                  I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
                  KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

                  If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
                  "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
                  Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

                  73
                  Bill - WA7NWP

                  -----
                  From an APRS group:

                  Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
                  special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
                  cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
                  sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2077 - Release Date: 04/29/09 18:03:00

                • Art Bertheaume
                  Hello John and Perter,   We have been using D-700 s in several locations with BPQ and F6FBB 7.00e.  These are located at County and town level EOC s. 
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 4, 2009
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                    Hello John and Perter,
                      We have been using D-700's in several locations with BPQ and F6FBB 7.00e.  These are located at County and town level EOC's.  Although not the most effeciant,  they will work. The thing to do is limit MAXFRAME = 2  and PACLEN was set to 175.
                     
                      73
                    Art,  N9ZZK 
                     
                    .

                    --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...> wrote:
                    From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...>
                    Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:24 PM

                    
                    Peter,
                     
                    My understanding is that the D700 has a very small serial buffer, so can't be used for anything other than small UI frames, such as ARPS, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has more information.
                     
                    73,
                    John
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of peter joseph
                    Sent: 04 May 2009 18:11
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                    The solution we used and which appears to work well and is solid is to escape the “C” character.  So when any data is sent to the TNC in KISS mode if there is an ASCII “C” it is replaced by the sequence <0xDB>”C” which essentially escapes the “TC 0<Cr>” sequence. The KISS protocol (in the D710’s KISS TNC implementation) removes the <0xDB> which is the frame escape so no modification of the transmitted data stream is actually made. Thanks to Peter Woods for figuring this out.

                     

                    73,

                     

                    Rick Muething, KN6KB

                    Winlink Development Team


                    From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of T L Roberson
                    Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:56 PM
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???




                    hi could d700 work with wfbb 700i... Peter

                    From the desk of 9Y4PJ..,,
                        Peter


                    --- On Mon, 5/4/09, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com> wrote:
                    From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com>
                    Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:51 PM

                    
                    If something like that was reported to me, I would certainly consider it a bug, and I guess Rick's workarouund is as good as any, But I wonder if the problem has ever been seen in real life compressed mail? I calculate the odds of a particular 40 bit sequence occuring by chance as 2 ** 40, or around a trillion to one. Of course it is much more likely in plain text - a message reportnig the problem couldn't be sent!
                     
                    If anyone using a D710 is having this problem, i'd be happy to fix it immediately, otherwise I'll add Rick's workaround next time I change the code.
                     
                    73,
                    John G8BPQ
                     
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl
                    Sent: 01 May 2009 16:27
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                    Rick and Bill

                    I was unaware of the issue with the KISS implementation in the Kenwood D710. 

                    Has this been discussed on other forums?  Such as TAPR, aprssig, UIView etc?

                    I am sure John G8BPQ will be interested to learn of this.  He is currently sailing, and out of range, but should find out soon enough!

                    It should be up to Kenwood to fix this, but I won't hold my breath!

                    Ron, N5IN


                    From: Rick Muething <rmuething@cfl. rr.com>
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:27:02 PM
                    Subject: RE: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???

                    Bill/All

                     

                    The 710 “bug” is not a violation of the KISS protocol…it is the result of trying to use the same serial port for both a TNC and a Front panel control. The problem is when in KISS mode (which sends binary packets “encapsulated in the KISS protocol”  it is possible to have the character sequence “TC 0<Cr>”  as binary or  character data within the KISS encapsulation. This sequence will be interpreted by the serial port controller in the Control head of the D710 as “escape to control mode” and which will switch the serial interface from TNC mode to front panel control mode.  This can have disastrous affects when trying to transfer binary files using KISS. 

                     

                    One solution would be to entice Kenwood to modify the firmware in the control head to having entered the KISS protocol to ignore all mode control commands including “TC 0<Cr>”. This would require using the standardized escape KISS sequence {0xC0, 0xFF, 0xC0} prior to any control panel commands and then re enabling KISS to continue TNC operation…This gets tricky and is very likely to impact existing programs that now work.

                     

                    I have use a D710 for packet every since they went on the market and never had a problem one. I am running it with RMS Packet on 145.010 at present time.

                     

                     

                     

                    Robby/W5SEG



                    --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com> wrote:

                    From: Bill Vodall WA7NWP <wa7nwp@gmail. com>
                    Subject: [BPQ32] new version of KISS???
                    To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 1:39 PM

                    The new Kenwood D710 is a packet dream. 9600 and 1200 baud, built in
                    TNC and dual band frequency agile. Wow.

                    Is any body using one for packet? Planning on it?

                    It turns out the D710 has a KISS bug. At least it's a bug in my opinion...

                    I think we should let Kenwood know (loudly) that they've violated the
                    KISS protocol. Or should we all change our KISS drivers?

                    If the D710 was programmed to look for a simple time delay around the
                    "TC 0<cr>" sequence the whole potential problem would be eliminated.. .
                    Fortunately the D710 is flash updated...

                    73
                    Bill - WA7NWP

                    -----
                    From an APRS group:

                    Packet using the D710's built in TNC in Native KISS mode with
                    special escape code to avoid the problem sequence "TC 0<Cr>" that would
                    cause escape from TNC mode. This allows large packet sizes and messages
                    sizes (up to 120 K compressed in Winlink)

                    Bill

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