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Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

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  • Edward Tune
    Got it, Klaus! As I was thinking about it and doing a bit or research, I relized with just a computer running BPQ and a TNC (node), I don t need a diode in
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 9, 2009
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      Got it, Klaus! As I was thinking about it and doing a bit or research, I relized with just a computer running BPQ and a TNC (node), I don't need a diode in there. I am going to dig out a couple of DB-9's and try your method... a basic cross between pins 2 and 3 with ground and see where that leads me. Possibly there is some conflict between the pins that is holding these two down. I worked my way through the indicated cable combinations in BPQ with no joy but they all seem to be for the older, slower MFJ equipment using a DB-25.
       
      Does annyone out there remember what they had programmed into the TheNet, specifically level one stuff?
      Second to the last line is RS232 host mode, either standard or DCD. I have tried both but lean towards DCD in this application.
       
      Last item is crosslink protocol, which is straight crosslink, KISS, selected KISS (no packets that are designated for the hardware NODE cross the ports), and all packets are transfered. I have tried all of them, using crosslink when I had BPQ with NETROM selected, and the KISS modes when I had selected KISS in BPQ. ('Course none gave me any joy or we wouldn't be having this conversation! hi hi) Which protocol are you guys using?
       
      Again, appreciate the help!
       
      Otto, KV7J
       
       


       
      On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@...> wrote:

      We have been using bpq and netrom X1JR-4 together for the past 20 yrs without problems connected to a diode matrix and they work quite well at the repeater site that has a 180kw tv transmitter and fm radio station plus various commercial vhf and uhf repeater transmitters for lmr. The bpq is running on a dos pc that has an fbb bbs. The matrix goes to a data engine running bpq in eprom and data radio running 19.2k for a backbone link of 110km to another tower that has a 7 port bpq switch and more links and interfaces to a third tower.


      Best regards,
      Klaus Rung, VE3KR

      --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Edward Tune <ottotune@...> wrote:

      From: Edward Tune <ottotune@...>

      Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 9:51 PM


      Thank you, Mike and Klaus. I had considered building a "small stack" and may still try that out. I keep looking at what is coming out of the TNC and what is coming out of the PC with a network monitor and it just looks I can't match them. I mean if I could then  would not have a problem with a DB-9 to DB-9 cable. As I stated, I actually got the BPQ to copy the output of the TNC for one build. And that was while BPQ was set to NETROM.
       
      Klaus, on each build I would run X1J4 together with the BPQ node for about a half hour and then switch to KISS mode in BPQ. (The X14J code will handle several different levels of KISS or at least different ways of using KISS.) In about 15 different bilds of X14J there was just the one time that BPQ did copy the node but it would never work in the opposite direction. At that time, BPQ was set to KISS and X14J was in a KISS pass through mode.
       
      Mike, the biggest problm with diodeds is the noise factor. This particular setup would be going on a mountain top that is noted for its RF noise for bunches of other sources up there. In this case, adding what is effectively a diode detector, would not survive intital contact. We do run some amateur repeaters up there and even with proper shielding they have problems dealing with the Navy's transmitters.
       
      Thank you both for your suggestions, though. It appears that there is not too many experiences out there with X1J4 to BPQ lash-ups so maybe, eventually, I can prove a point.
       
      Again, thanks;
       
      Otto, KV7J
       
       

      On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

      You might also consider that the x1j node runs netrom not kiss and you have to set your pc or other equipment that is to connect to the the serial port of the node to netrom and make sure the baud rate is the same on both systems.

      Best regards,
      Klaus Rung, VE3KR

      --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net> wrote:

      From: Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net>
      Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
      To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
      Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 7:26 PM


      Otto, you may want to look at how you can hook bpq up to a x1j4 node stack.  We had 2 DOS FBB/BPQ systems here like that. We made an adapter with a 1k resistor in the rs-232 cable from the DOS pc to the diode matrix that the node stack was in. Don't know if that will help you with just one x1j4 node though but it may give you some ideas.
      73
      Mike kb5wbh
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: ottotune1
      Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:11 AM
      Subject: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

      Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.

      Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.

      Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.

      The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.

      Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.

      After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.

      I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?

      V/R

      Otto, KV7J




      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00




    • John Wiseman
      Otto, You don t need a crossover beween a TNC and a PC (at least not for any TNC I ve ever used). Just a straight through cable. A normal KISS TNC doesn t need
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 9, 2009
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        Message
        Otto,
         
        You don't need a crossover beween a TNC and a PC (at least not for any TNC I've ever used). Just a straight through cable. A normal KISS TNC doesn't need handshaking lines, but TheNet probalby does, as the control lines are used to handle contention on a matrix.
         
        I've never used a Thenet or NETROM that supported KISS, so I can't comment on that, but if it is available I'd suggest using KISS to BPQ32, as I'm not aware of anyone using BPQ32 with NETROM serial protocol.
         
        73,
        John
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edward Tune
        Sent: 09 March 2009 12:53
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

        Got it, Klaus! As I was thinking about it and doing a bit or research, I relized with just a computer running BPQ and a TNC (node), I don't need a diode in there. I am going to dig out a couple of DB-9's and try your method... a basic cross between pins 2 and 3 with ground and see where that leads me. Possibly there is some conflict between the pins that is holding these two down. I worked my way through the indicated cable combinations in BPQ with no joy but they all seem to be for the older, slower MFJ equipment using a DB-25.
         
        Does annyone out there remember what they had programmed into the TheNet, specifically level one stuff?
        Second to the last line is RS232 host mode, either standard or DCD. I have tried both but lean towards DCD in this application.
         
        Last item is crosslink protocol, which is straight crosslink, KISS, selected KISS (no packets that are designated for the hardware NODE cross the ports), and all packets are transfered. I have tried all of them, using crosslink when I had BPQ with NETROM selected, and the KISS modes when I had selected KISS in BPQ. ('Course none gave me any joy or we wouldn't be having this conversation! hi hi) Which protocol are you guys using?
         
        Again, appreciate the help!
         
        Otto, KV7J
         
         


         
        On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

        We have been using bpq and netrom X1JR-4 together for the past 20 yrs without problems connected to a diode matrix and they work quite well at the repeater site that has a 180kw tv transmitter and fm radio station plus various commercial vhf and uhf repeater transmitters for lmr. The bpq is running on a dos pc that has an fbb bbs. The matrix goes to a data engine running bpq in eprom and data radio running 19.2k for a backbone link of 110km to another tower that has a 7 port bpq switch and more links and interfaces to a third tower.


        Best regards,
        Klaus Rung, VE3KR

        --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com> wrote:

        From: Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com>

        Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 9:51 PM


        Thank you, Mike and Klaus. I had considered building a "small stack" and may still try that out. I keep looking at what is coming out of the TNC and what is coming out of the PC with a network monitor and it just looks I can't match them. I mean if I could then  would not have a problem with a DB-9 to DB-9 cable. As I stated, I actually got the BPQ to copy the output of the TNC for one build. And that was while BPQ was set to NETROM.
         
        Klaus, on each build I would run X1J4 together with the BPQ node for about a half hour and then switch to KISS mode in BPQ. (The X14J code will handle several different levels of KISS or at least different ways of using KISS.) In about 15 different bilds of X14J there was just the one time that BPQ did copy the node but it would never work in the opposite direction. At that time, BPQ was set to KISS and X14J was in a KISS pass through mode.
         
        Mike, the biggest problm with diodeds is the noise factor. This particular setup would be going on a mountain top that is noted for its RF noise for bunches of other sources up there. In this case, adding what is effectively a diode detector, would not survive intital contact. We do run some amateur repeaters up there and even with proper shielding they have problems dealing with the Navy's transmitters.
         
        Thank you both for your suggestions, though. It appears that there is not too many experiences out there with X1J4 to BPQ lash-ups so maybe, eventually, I can prove a point.
         
        Again, thanks;
         
        Otto, KV7J
         


         
        On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

        You might also consider that the x1j node runs netrom not kiss and you have to set your pc or other equipment that is to connect to the the serial port of the node to netrom and make sure the baud rate is the same on both systems.

        Best regards,
        Klaus Rung, VE3KR

        --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net> wrote:

        From: Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net>
        Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
        To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
        Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 7:26 PM


        Otto, you may want to look at how you can hook bpq up to a x1j4 node stack.  We had 2 DOS FBB/BPQ systems here like that. We made an adapter with a 1k resistor in the rs-232 cable from the DOS pc to the diode matrix that the node stack was in. Don't know if that will help you with just one x1j4 node though but it may give you some ideas.
        73
        Mike kb5wbh
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: ottotune1
        Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:11 AM
        Subject: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

        Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.

        Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.

        Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.

        The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.

        Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.

        After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.

        I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?

        V/R

        Otto, KV7J




        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00




      • Ron Stordahl
        In the BPQ32 installation you will find a file named BPQ32_RS232_Cabling.htm in the docs folder. That document explains Cabling BPQ32 to a NETROM TheNet/X1J4
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 9, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          In the BPQ32 installation you will find a file named BPQ32_RS232_Cabling.htm in the docs folder.  That document explains "Cabling BPQ32 to a NETROM TheNet/X1J4 TNC2".  I tested that around the time I wrote that doc, March 4, 2008.  I have not tried the RS232 connection between BPQ32 and TheNet/X1J4 since then.  I am not sure I can find such a TNC to retest this now.

          But chances are good that what I documented still works.

          Ron, N5IN


          From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...>
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:57:41 AM
          Subject: RE: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

          Otto,
           
          You don't need a crossover beween a TNC and a PC (at least not for any TNC I've ever used). Just a straight through cable. A normal KISS TNC doesn't need handshaking lines, but TheNet probalby does, as the control lines are used to handle contention on a matrix.
           
          I've never used a Thenet or NETROM that supported KISS, so I can't comment on that, but if it is available I'd suggest using KISS to BPQ32, as I'm not aware of anyone using BPQ32 with NETROM serial protocol.
           
          73,
          John
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Edward Tune
          Sent: 09 March 2009 12:53
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

          Got it, Klaus! As I was thinking about it and doing a bit or research, I relized with just a computer running BPQ and a TNC (node), I don't need a diode in there. I am going to dig out a couple of DB-9's and try your method... a basic cross between pins 2 and 3 with ground and see where that leads me. Possibly there is some conflict between the pins that is holding these two down. I worked my way through the indicated cable combinations in BPQ with no joy but they all seem to be for the older, slower MFJ equipment using a DB-25.
           
          Does annyone out there remember what they had programmed into the TheNet, specifically level one stuff?
          Second to the last line is RS232 host mode, either standard or DCD. I have tried both but lean towards DCD in this application.
           
          Last item is crosslink protocol, which is straight crosslink, KISS, selected KISS (no packets that are designated for the hardware NODE cross the ports), and all packets are transfered. I have tried all of them, using crosslink when I had BPQ with NETROM selected, and the KISS modes when I had selected KISS in BPQ. ('Course none gave me any joy or we wouldn't be having this conversation! hi hi) Which protocol are you guys using?
           
          Again, appreciate the help!
           
          Otto, KV7J
           
           


           
          On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

          We have been using bpq and netrom X1JR-4 together for the past 20 yrs without problems connected to a diode matrix and they work quite well at the repeater site that has a 180kw tv transmitter and fm radio station plus various commercial vhf and uhf repeater transmitters for lmr. The bpq is running on a dos pc that has an fbb bbs. The matrix goes to a data engine running bpq in eprom and data radio running 19.2k for a backbone link of 110km to another tower that has a 7 port bpq switch and more links and interfaces to a third tower.


          Best regards,
          Klaus Rung, VE3KR

          --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com> wrote:

          From: Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com>

          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 9:51 PM


          Thank you, Mike and Klaus. I had considered building a "small stack" and may still try that out. I keep looking at what is coming out of the TNC and what is coming out of the PC with a network monitor and it just looks I can't match them. I mean if I could then  would not have a problem with a DB-9 to DB-9 cable. As I stated, I actually got the BPQ to copy the output of the TNC for one build. And that was while BPQ was set to NETROM.
           
          Klaus, on each build I would run X1J4 together with the BPQ node for about a half hour and then switch to KISS mode in BPQ. (The X14J code will handle several different levels of KISS or at least different ways of using KISS.) In about 15 different bilds of X14J there was just the one time that BPQ did copy the node but it would never work in the opposite direction. At that time, BPQ was set to KISS and X14J was in a KISS pass through mode.
           
          Mike, the biggest problm with diodeds is the noise factor. This particular setup would be going on a mountain top that is noted for its RF noise for bunches of other sources up there. In this case, adding what is effectively a diode detector, would not survive intital contact. We do run some amateur repeaters up there and even with proper shielding they have problems dealing with the Navy's transmitters.
           
          Thank you both for your suggestions, though. It appears that there is not too many experiences out there with X1J4 to BPQ lash-ups so maybe, eventually, I can prove a point.
           
          Again, thanks;
           
          Otto, KV7J
           


           
          On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

          You might also consider that the x1j node runs netrom not kiss and you have to set your pc or other equipment that is to connect to the the serial port of the node to netrom and make sure the baud rate is the same on both systems.

          Best regards,
          Klaus Rung, VE3KR

          --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net> wrote:

          From: Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net>
          Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
          To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
          Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 7:26 PM


          Otto, you may want to look at how you can hook bpq up to a x1j4 node stack.  We had 2 DOS FBB/BPQ systems here like that. We made an adapter with a 1k resistor in the rs-232 cable from the DOS pc to the diode matrix that the node stack was in. Don't know if that will help you with just one x1j4 node though but it may give you some ideas.
          73
          Mike kb5wbh
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ottotune1
          Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:11 AM
          Subject: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

          Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.

          Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.

          Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.

          The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.

          Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.

          After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.

          I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?

          V/R

          Otto, KV7J




          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00




        • Edward Tune
          Thanks for the comments, Ron... That is actually where I started... did a quick convert to DB-9 stuff. Think everything was DB-9 to DB-25 in your missive. I
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 9, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks for the comments, Ron... That is actually where I started... did a quick convert to DB-9 stuff. Think everything was DB-9 to DB-25 in your missive. I 'thought' I hada cable built that would work... but after two weekends of changing parameters in the X1J4 PROMS and the BPQ's CONFIG file, I am getting nowhere so that is what brought up cable comments.
             
            On that one occasion I actually got BPQ to copy packets that were coming through the X1J4 node but was that it. No other combination seems to cause data to go back and forth.
             
            I was hoping someone else had fought the good fight with a Paccomm Tiny-2 MK II and knew something I didn't. Just cut a cable in half and am gonna try a simple RX, TX and ground config through it and then run through the X1J4 EPROMS and BPQ settings again. Eventually a combo will work.
             
            Appreciate everyones help in this.
             
            Otto, KV7J
             
              

            On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Ron Stordahl <ron_n5in@...> wrote:

            In the BPQ32 installation you will find a file named BPQ32_RS232_Cabling.htm in the docs folder.  That document explains "Cabling BPQ32 to a NETROM TheNet/X1J4 TNC2".  I tested that around the time I wrote that doc, March 4, 2008.  I have not tried the RS232 connection between BPQ32 and TheNet/X1J4 since then.  I am not sure I can find such a TNC to retest this now.

            But chances are good that what I documented still works.

            Ron, N5IN


            From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...>
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:57:41 AM
            Subject: RE: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

            Otto,
             
            You don't need a crossover beween a TNC and a PC (at least not for any TNC I've ever used). Just a straight through cable. A normal KISS TNC doesn't need handshaking lines, but TheNet probalby does, as the control lines are used to handle contention on a matrix.
             
            I've never used a Thenet or NETROM that supported KISS, so I can't comment on that, but if it is available I'd suggest using KISS to BPQ32, as I'm not aware of anyone using BPQ32 with NETROM serial protocol.
             
            73,
            John
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Edward Tune
            Sent: 09 March 2009 12:53
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

            Got it, Klaus! As I was thinking about it and doing a bit or research, I relized with just a computer running BPQ and a TNC (node), I don't need a diode in there. I am going to dig out a couple of DB-9's and try your method... a basic cross between pins 2 and 3 with ground and see where that leads me. Possibly there is some conflict between the pins that is holding these two down. I worked my way through the indicated cable combinations in BPQ with no joy but they all seem to be for the older, slower MFJ equipment using a DB-25.
             
            Does annyone out there remember what they had programmed into the TheNet, specifically level one stuff?
            Second to the last line is RS232 host mode, either standard or DCD. I have tried both but lean towards DCD in this application.
             
            Last item is crosslink protocol, which is straight crosslink, KISS, selected KISS (no packets that are designated for the hardware NODE cross the ports), and all packets are transfered. I have tried all of them, using crosslink when I had BPQ with NETROM selected, and the KISS modes when I had selected KISS in BPQ. ('Course none gave me any joy or we wouldn't be having this conversation! hi hi) Which protocol are you guys using?
             
            Again, appreciate the help!
             
            Otto, KV7J
             
             


             
            On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

            We have been using bpq and netrom X1JR-4 together for the past 20 yrs without problems connected to a diode matrix and they work quite well at the repeater site that has a 180kw tv transmitter and fm radio station plus various commercial vhf and uhf repeater transmitters for lmr. The bpq is running on a dos pc that has an fbb bbs. The matrix goes to a data engine running bpq in eprom and data radio running 19.2k for a backbone link of 110km to another tower that has a 7 port bpq switch and more links and interfaces to a third tower.


            Best regards,
            Klaus Rung, VE3KR

            --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com> wrote:

            From: Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com>

            Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
            Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 9:51 PM


            Thank you, Mike and Klaus. I had considered building a "small stack" and may still try that out. I keep looking at what is coming out of the TNC and what is coming out of the PC with a network monitor and it just looks I can't match them. I mean if I could then  would not have a problem with a DB-9 to DB-9 cable. As I stated, I actually got the BPQ to copy the output of the TNC for one build. And that was while BPQ was set to NETROM.
             
            Klaus, on each build I would run X1J4 together with the BPQ node for about a half hour and then switch to KISS mode in BPQ. (The X14J code will handle several different levels of KISS or at least different ways of using KISS.) In about 15 different bilds of X14J there was just the one time that BPQ did copy the node but it would never work in the opposite direction. At that time, BPQ was set to KISS and X14J was in a KISS pass through mode.
             
            Mike, the biggest problm with diodeds is the noise factor. This particular setup would be going on a mountain top that is noted for its RF noise for bunches of other sources up there. In this case, adding what is effectively a diode detector, would not survive intital contact. We do run some amateur repeaters up there and even with proper shielding they have problems dealing with the Navy's transmitters.
             
            Thank you both for your suggestions, though. It appears that there is not too many experiences out there with X1J4 to BPQ lash-ups so maybe, eventually, I can prove a point.
             
            Again, thanks;
             
            Otto, KV7J
             


             
            On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

            You might also consider that the x1j node runs netrom not kiss and you have to set your pc or other equipment that is to connect to the the serial port of the node to netrom and make sure the baud rate is the same on both systems.

            Best regards,
            Klaus Rung, VE3KR

            --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net> wrote:

            From: Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net>
            Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
            To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
            Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 7:26 PM


            Otto, you may want to look at how you can hook bpq up to a x1j4 node stack.  We had 2 DOS FBB/BPQ systems here like that. We made an adapter with a 1k resistor in the rs-232 cable from the DOS pc to the diode matrix that the node stack was in. Don't know if that will help you with just one x1j4 node though but it may give you some ideas.
            73
            Mike kb5wbh
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ottotune1
            Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:11 AM
            Subject: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

            Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.

            Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.

            Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.

            The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.

            Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.

            After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.

            I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?

            V/R

            Otto, KV7J




            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00





          • Edward Tune
            John, I am gonna try it without the 2-3, 3-2 split first... just to see what happens... Thanks! Otto, KV7J
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 9, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              John, I am gonna try it without the 2-3, 3-2 split first... just to see what happens... Thanks!
               
              Otto, KV7J
               

              On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:57 AM, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...> wrote:

              Otto,
               
              You don't need a crossover beween a TNC and a PC (at least not for any TNC I've ever used). Just a straight through cable. A normal KISS TNC doesn't need handshaking lines, but TheNet probalby does, as the control lines are used to handle contention on a matrix.
               
              I've never used a Thenet or NETROM that supported KISS, so I can't comment on that, but if it is available I'd suggest using KISS to BPQ32, as I'm not aware of anyone using BPQ32 with NETROM serial protocol.
               
              73,
              John
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BPQ32@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edward Tune
              Sent: 09 March 2009 12:53
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

              Got it, Klaus! As I was thinking about it and doing a bit or research, I relized with just a computer running BPQ and a TNC (node), I don't need a diode in there. I am going to dig out a couple of DB-9's and try your method... a basic cross between pins 2 and 3 with ground and see where that leads me. Possibly there is some conflict between the pins that is holding these two down. I worked my way through the indicated cable combinations in BPQ with no joy but they all seem to be for the older, slower MFJ equipment using a DB-25.
               
              Does annyone out there remember what they had programmed into the TheNet, specifically level one stuff?
              Second to the last line is RS232 host mode, either standard or DCD. I have tried both but lean towards DCD in this application.
               
              Last item is crosslink protocol, which is straight crosslink, KISS, selected KISS (no packets that are designated for the hardware NODE cross the ports), and all packets are transfered. I have tried all of them, using crosslink when I had BPQ with NETROM selected, and the KISS modes when I had selected KISS in BPQ. ('Course none gave me any joy or we wouldn't be having this conversation! hi hi) Which protocol are you guys using?
               
              Again, appreciate the help!
               
              Otto, KV7J
               
               


               
              On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@...> wrote:

              We have been using bpq and netrom X1JR-4 together for the past 20 yrs without problems connected to a diode matrix and they work quite well at the repeater site that has a 180kw tv transmitter and fm radio station plus various commercial vhf and uhf repeater transmitters for lmr. The bpq is running on a dos pc that has an fbb bbs. The matrix goes to a data engine running bpq in eprom and data radio running 19.2k for a backbone link of 110km to another tower that has a 7 port bpq switch and more links and interfaces to a third tower.


              Best regards,
              Klaus Rung, VE3KR

              --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Edward Tune <ottotune@...> wrote:

              From: Edward Tune <ottotune@...>

              Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 9:51 PM


              Thank you, Mike and Klaus. I had considered building a "small stack" and may still try that out. I keep looking at what is coming out of the TNC and what is coming out of the PC with a network monitor and it just looks I can't match them. I mean if I could then  would not have a problem with a DB-9 to DB-9 cable. As I stated, I actually got the BPQ to copy the output of the TNC for one build. And that was while BPQ was set to NETROM.
               
              Klaus, on each build I would run X1J4 together with the BPQ node for about a half hour and then switch to KISS mode in BPQ. (The X14J code will handle several different levels of KISS or at least different ways of using KISS.) In about 15 different bilds of X14J there was just the one time that BPQ did copy the node but it would never work in the opposite direction. At that time, BPQ was set to KISS and X14J was in a KISS pass through mode.
               
              Mike, the biggest problm with diodeds is the noise factor. This particular setup would be going on a mountain top that is noted for its RF noise for bunches of other sources up there. In this case, adding what is effectively a diode detector, would not survive intital contact. We do run some amateur repeaters up there and even with proper shielding they have problems dealing with the Navy's transmitters.
               
              Thank you both for your suggestions, though. It appears that there is not too many experiences out there with X1J4 to BPQ lash-ups so maybe, eventually, I can prove a point.
               
              Again, thanks;
               
              Otto, KV7J
               


               
              On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

              You might also consider that the x1j node runs netrom not kiss and you have to set your pc or other equipment that is to connect to the the serial port of the node to netrom and make sure the baud rate is the same on both systems.

              Best regards,
              Klaus Rung, VE3KR

              --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net> wrote:

              From: Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net>
              Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
              To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
              Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 7:26 PM


              Otto, you may want to look at how you can hook bpq up to a x1j4 node stack.  We had 2 DOS FBB/BPQ systems here like that. We made an adapter with a 1k resistor in the rs-232 cable from the DOS pc to the diode matrix that the node stack was in. Don't know if that will help you with just one x1j4 node though but it may give you some ideas.
              73
              Mike kb5wbh
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: ottotune1
              Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:11 AM
              Subject: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

              Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.

              Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.

              Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.

              The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.

              Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.

              After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.

              I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?

              V/R

              Otto, KV7J




              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00





            • Klaus Rung
              If you connect a pc serial port to the x1j I believe you need a resistor on one of the terminals at the pc end as someone else suggested. Best regards, Klaus
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 10, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                If you connect a pc serial port to the x1j I believe you need a resistor on one of the terminals at the pc end as someone else suggested.

                Best regards,
                Klaus Rung, VE3KR

                --- On Mon, 3/9/09, Edward Tune <ottotune@...> wrote:

                From: Edward Tune <ottotune@...>
                Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 9:51 PM

                Thanks for the comments, Ron... That is actually where I started... did a quick convert to DB-9 stuff. Think everything was DB-9 to DB-25 in your missive. I 'thought' I hada cable built that would work... but after two weekends of changing parameters in the X1J4 PROMS and the BPQ's CONFIG file, I am getting nowhere so that is what brought up cable comments.
                 
                On that one occasion I actually got BPQ to copy packets that were coming through the X1J4 node but was that it. No other combination seems to cause data to go back and forth.
                 
                I was hoping someone else had fought the good fight with a Paccomm Tiny-2 MK II and knew something I didn't. Just cut a cable in half and am gonna try a simple RX, TX and ground config through it and then run through the X1J4 EPROMS and BPQ settings again. Eventually a combo will work.
                 
                Appreciate everyones help in this.
                 
                Otto, KV7J
                 
                  

                On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Ron Stordahl <ron_n5in@yahoo. com> wrote:

                In the BPQ32 installation you will find a file named BPQ32_RS232_ Cabling.htm in the docs folder.  That document explains "Cabling BPQ32 to a NETROM TheNet/X1J4 TNC2".  I tested that around the time I wrote that doc, March 4, 2008.  I have not tried the RS232 connection between BPQ32 and TheNet/X1J4 since then.  I am not sure I can find such a TNC to retest this now.

                But chances are good that what I documented still works.

                Ron, N5IN


                From: John Wiseman <john.wiseman@ ntlworld. com>
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:57:41 AM
                Subject: RE: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

                Otto,
                 
                You don't need a crossover beween a TNC and a PC (at least not for any TNC I've ever used). Just a straight through cable. A normal KISS TNC doesn't need handshaking lines, but TheNet probalby does, as the control lines are used to handle contention on a matrix.
                 
                I've never used a Thenet or NETROM that supported KISS, so I can't comment on that, but if it is available I'd suggest using KISS to BPQ32, as I'm not aware of anyone using BPQ32 with NETROM serial protocol.
                 
                73,
                John
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com [mailto:BPQ32@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Edward Tune
                Sent: 09 March 2009 12:53
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

                Got it, Klaus! As I was thinking about it and doing a bit or research, I relized with just a computer running BPQ and a TNC (node), I don't need a diode in there. I am going to dig out a couple of DB-9's and try your method... a basic cross between pins 2 and 3 with ground and see where that leads me. Possibly there is some conflict between the pins that is holding these two down. I worked my way through the indicated cable combinations in BPQ with no joy but they all seem to be for the older, slower MFJ equipment using a DB-25.
                 
                Does annyone out there remember what they had programmed into the TheNet, specifically level one stuff?
                Second to the last line is RS232 host mode, either standard or DCD. I have tried both but lean towards DCD in this application.
                 
                Last item is crosslink protocol, which is straight crosslink, KISS, selected KISS (no packets that are designated for the hardware NODE cross the ports), and all packets are transfered. I have tried all of them, using crosslink when I had BPQ with NETROM selected, and the KISS modes when I had selected KISS in BPQ. ('Course none gave me any joy or we wouldn't be having this conversation! hi hi) Which protocol are you guys using?
                 
                Again, appreciate the help!
                 
                Otto, KV7J
                 
                 


                 
                On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

                We have been using bpq and netrom X1JR-4 together for the past 20 yrs without problems connected to a diode matrix and they work quite well at the repeater site that has a 180kw tv transmitter and fm radio station plus various commercial vhf and uhf repeater transmitters for lmr. The bpq is running on a dos pc that has an fbb bbs. The matrix goes to a data engine running bpq in eprom and data radio running 19.2k for a backbone link of 110km to another tower that has a 7 port bpq switch and more links and interfaces to a third tower.


                Best regards,
                Klaus Rung, VE3KR

                --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com> wrote:

                From: Edward Tune <ottotune@gmail. com>

                Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 9:51 PM


                Thank you, Mike and Klaus. I had considered building a "small stack" and may still try that out. I keep looking at what is coming out of the TNC and what is coming out of the PC with a network monitor and it just looks I can't match them. I mean if I could then  would not have a problem with a DB-9 to DB-9 cable. As I stated, I actually got the BPQ to copy the output of the TNC for one build. And that was while BPQ was set to NETROM.
                 
                Klaus, on each build I would run X1J4 together with the BPQ node for about a half hour and then switch to KISS mode in BPQ. (The X14J code will handle several different levels of KISS or at least different ways of using KISS.) In about 15 different bilds of X14J there was just the one time that BPQ did copy the node but it would never work in the opposite direction. At that time, BPQ was set to KISS and X14J was in a KISS pass through mode.
                 
                Mike, the biggest problm with diodeds is the noise factor. This particular setup would be going on a mountain top that is noted for its RF noise for bunches of other sources up there. In this case, adding what is effectively a diode detector, would not survive intital contact. We do run some amateur repeaters up there and even with proper shielding they have problems dealing with the Navy's transmitters.
                 
                Thank you both for your suggestions, though. It appears that there is not too many experiences out there with X1J4 to BPQ lash-ups so maybe, eventually, I can prove a point.
                 
                Again, thanks;
                 
                Otto, KV7J
                 


                 
                On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Klaus Rung <k_rung@yahoo. com> wrote:

                You might also consider that the x1j node runs netrom not kiss and you have to set your pc or other equipment that is to connect to the the serial port of the node to netrom and make sure the baud rate is the same on both systems.

                Best regards,
                Klaus Rung, VE3KR

                --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net> wrote:

                From: Mike Nettles <Mike_Nettles@ centurytel. net>
                Subject: Re: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J
                To: BPQ32@yahoogroups. com
                Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 7:26 PM


                Otto, you may want to look at how you can hook bpq up to a x1j4 node stack.  We had 2 DOS FBB/BPQ systems here like that. We made an adapter with a 1k resistor in the rs-232 cable from the DOS pc to the diode matrix that the node stack was in. Don't know if that will help you with just one x1j4 node though but it may give you some ideas.
                73
                Mike kb5wbh
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: ottotune1
                Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:11 AM
                Subject: [BPQ32] BPQ and X14J

                Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.

                Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.

                Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.

                The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.

                Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.

                After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.

                I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?

                V/R

                Otto, KV7J




                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00






              • PD0SNK
                Hi Otto. Do you have your X-1j4 going ? I have mine going now with bpq32 and kiss protocol and no kissoptions. What kind of tnc do you have ? Becouse you have
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 9, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Otto.

                  Do you have your X-1j4 going ?
                  I have mine going now with bpq32 and kiss protocol and no kissoptions.
                  What kind of tnc do you have ?
                  Becouse you have to set SIO pin 22 DCDB to +5 volt with 1k5 resistor.
                  (from pin22 sio to max232 pin8 for tnc2c)

                  I also could send you bpqcfg.txt of my SOFT node and file for programming the eprom for the HARD node.
                  Hope this is helping a bit.

                  Danny PD0SNK



                  --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "ottotune1" <ottotune@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.
                  >
                  > Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.
                  >
                  > Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.
                  >
                  > The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.
                  >
                  > Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.
                  >
                  > After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.
                  >
                  > I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?
                  >
                  > V/R
                  >
                  > Otto, KV7J
                  >
                • Edward Tune
                  Oh ! Yes, sir!. If I remember correctly, I was forgetting another switch in there. After I started playing with all three of them (and reading directions) I
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 10, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Oh ! Yes, sir!. If I remember correctly, I was forgetting another switch in there. After I
                    started playing with all three of them (and reading directions) I figured it out with the
                    help of others.
                     
                    The upshot was that a couple of months later, the node owner wanted to switch to a
                    straight BPQ format so all my whining, crying and work got dumped for a fairly
                    straight forward, easy to configure BPQ32 node running straight JKISS TNC-2s.
                     
                    Do appreciate the offer though!
                     
                    Thanks!
                     
                    V/R
                     
                    Otto, KV7J


                     
                    On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 8:35 PM, PD0SNK <pd0snk@...> wrote:
                     

                    Hi Otto.

                    Do you have your X-1j4 going ?
                    I have mine going now with bpq32 and kiss protocol and no kissoptions.
                    What kind of tnc do you have ?
                    Becouse you have to set SIO pin 22 DCDB to +5 volt with 1k5 resistor.
                    (from pin22 sio to max232 pin8 for tnc2c)

                    I also could send you bpqcfg.txt of my SOFT node and file for programming the eprom for the HARD node.
                    Hope this is helping a bit.

                    Danny PD0SNK

                    --- In BPQ32@yahoogroups.com, "ottotune1" <ottotune@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Looking for the guru of X14J out there. I have run various versions of BPQ from back in the good ole days of DOS in Panama to version 'i' right now but usually with a kiss box hanging outside.
                    >
                    > Have also run a bunch of TN stuff from 2.10 forward.
                    >
                    > Decided a couple of weeks ago to try to tie them together so have been burning PROMS for two weekends no with no success.
                    >
                    > The X1J4 runs fine on its own in the network and BPQ has been running fine with a simple JKISS box. At one point I had BPQ copying all the data that the X1J4 box was copying but would not make contact in the other direction.
                    >
                    > Have tried both 'standard' and all three KISS modes in the X1J4 patcher.
                    >
                    > After ensuring that the X1J4 node works I have been bouncing back and forth between NETROM and KISS in the bpqcfg file.
                    >
                    > I am probably one setting away from making it work but it is currently eluding me. Anyoe willing to drop a clue on an old man?
                    >
                    > V/R
                    >
                    > Otto, KV7J
                    >


                  • kt4wo67@gmail.com
                    Altho I got BPQ working(direct connect) with my X1J4 node...I never could get it to pass all the data(text). There is some issue(not sure where) between my BPQ
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 10, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Altho I got BPQ working(direct connect) with my X1J4 node...I never
                      could get it to pass all the data(text).
                      There is some issue(not sure where) between my BPQ and TN2.08 /X1J4 nodes.
                      I worked about a month without any sucess.

                      If you connect from BPQ to the local TN2.08 or my X1J4 node...and
                      try to pass "text"...some of the text is dropped, everytime.
                      And on the DXCluster...that is not good...lol

                      I tried with BPQ to a plain KISS TNC and also
                      got it working with "NETROM" mode...but the problem
                      remained when I connected to the remote nodes....
                      I gave up...If you run into that same problem..pls let me know...I think
                      I am the only one that this has happend to.

                      Trip - KT4WO
                      kt4wo67@...
                    • Danny Oudendag (PD0SNK)
                      Hi Trip.. Don t have the problem you describe but my tnc here trows 8 frames out (fbb fwd) while i have maxframe at 4 in bpq32. in the x-1j4 also set it at 4
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 11, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Trip..
                         
                        Don't have the problem you describe but my tnc here trows 8 frames out (fbb fwd) while i have maxframe at 4 in bpq32.
                        in the x-1j4 also set it at 4 looks like the tnc doubles the maxframe..
                         
                        very strange.
                         
                        i'll try to set it lower in the tnc maybe this will work over here.
                         
                        Danny PD0SNK.
                         
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