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Re: [BCD396XT] RE: cellular carriers are not ready to replace public safety radio

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  • John Stark
    The Indianapolis system failed because of too many people talking needlessly about useless stuff that had zilch to do with the events going on at the time. I
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 28, 2013
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      The Indianapolis system failed because of too many people talking needlessly about useless stuff that had zilch to do with the events going on at the time. I know because I had 5 scanners scanning that one system when the guy had the heart attack and no one could get on the radio. At the same time no one could use their cell phones either because the systems were so tied up and that was with extra portable sites brought in just for the super bowl. Even the statewide radio system was at near capacity with its three Indy sites.
      The city us known for bad planning, instead of making certain schools police and fire have what they need they throw $20,000,000 a year to the useless Pacers and have to lay off teachers close schools fire stations and not replace fire and police who retire or get arrested. Indy has had a dozen police officers arrested in the last two years for DUI! Even a couple firefighters too. Two police in the past two weeks arrested. No money to replace them, no new class of recruits will be ready until 2014. And they can't even pay to fix damaged police cars or replace worn out cars. Why? Poor leadership! Mayor Ballard combined the police and sheriffs departments to save $$ and it ended up costing millions more. Ballard wants the Pacers so HE can go to the games free, so the city dumps millions into a losing effort. Then Ballard decides in the midst of a lousy economy to try and host a super bowl. At the same time Motorola is pitting the screws to the city. The new radio system would cost millions more and be less than the contract called for. They ended up with a P25 system but instead of desperate sites as the contract called for Motorola talked them into a simulcast system. Worts thing they could have done! Now you just tied up the entire system. They kept the original systems number of channels but did add two X2 data channels for the MDT's. What's worse is the "backup" system is essentially the exact same system with a couple different sites and different frequencies! Effectively it is one system split in two. One used by public safety the other by public works. Coverage on system 2 as its known is even worse than system 1.
      Add to it the city should have known the systems vulnerabilities long before the super bowl as they had "issues" long before that with normal events but ignored the warnings. The city was too busy wasting millions on useless projects for the super bowl to worry about radio problems. One project was to use a run down mall and turn it into a joint comm center for city, state and the feds during the super bowl. Between a 30 year lease and other costs or cost around a hundred million for that ONE item to be used rarely although one tiny section is now home to IMPD East District.... then there were $300,000,000 in other useless projects including shutting I70 down to plant trees so super bowl fans didn't see bare grass! Bad management? No question, in fact there is a serious lack of common sense in the city county building in Indy. It showed with the state fair collapse and the South Side explosion too. And yet today the mayor still refuses to admit there are radio issues or a crime issue either.....



      Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

      zavery1645@... wrote:

      >As a moronic ham radio operator
      >(KD0WBO) I have first hand knowledge about the way these systems work.
      >First of all encryption has nothing to do with channel availability as
      >previously stated. Second if you think public safety radios need
      >encryption you have another thing coming., By encrypting public safety
      >you are asking for major problems when things turn bad. In major events
      >its best to keep systems simple and adding encryption which is not
      >necessary for public safety your asking for failure. The system in
      >Indiana failed because of bad planing and infrastructure and there are
      >still may agency's that have yet to upgrade to the digital systems. When
      > all public safety systems fail and they will it will be the moronic ham radio operator that will come to save the day so don't rip on the ones that keep all these radio systems working.   --- In bcd396xt@yahoogroups.com, <scooterdog13@...> wrote: encryption has nothing to do with channel availability.  Anybody that thinks the cells phones and radio channels don't get over loaded during major events either isn't paying attention or never been involved in a major event of any sort.  The cell phone channels get overloaded on mothers day to say nothing of floods, tornadoes, or hurricanes, all of which are sure to take down towers where they are most needed.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >________________________________
      > From: Emmett Gulley < emmettgulley71@... >
      >To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 7:23 PM
      >Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] cellular carriers are not ready to replace public safety radio
      >
      >
      >

      >Your report should show to the moronic ham radio operators that YES,
      >encryption is needed so the agencies have that to fall back on. I have
      >gotten sick and tired of everybody on RR stating that radio systems and
      >cell networks won't fail.
      >
      > On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 4:11 PM, John Stark < johnstark@... > wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> The biggest reason is during an incident everyone goes to their phone and
      >> tie the networks up. Happens in every major incident and will continue to
      >> happen. The same happens on trunked radio systems too. During the week of
      >> the super bowl in Indy the phone and radio systems were both overloaded
      >> numerous times, it almost cost one man his life as EMS couldn't be called
      >> when hr had a heart attack. Someone finally got ahold of a trooper who was
      >> able to get on the statewide system and get help but even then the EMS crew
      >> couldn't get on the cities P25 system.
      >>
      >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
      >>
      >>
      >> worksntv@... wrote:
      >>
      >> >There are a number of reasons why smartphones and cellular carriers are
      >> >not ready to replace public safety radio networks
      >> >
      >> >
      >> http://gcn.com/articles/2013/08/16/smartphones-cant-replace-police-radios.as
      >> >px
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >------------------------------------
      >> >
      >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
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      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      >------------------------------------
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
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      >


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    • Tony Langdon
      ... Law enforcement, yes. Already seeing that trend over here. Fire? Not necessarily. In less populated areas, there is a lot of monitoring of fire
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 28, 2013
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        On 29/08/13 2:52 AM, Michael Hopkins wrote:
        >
        > With the advent of digital communications encryption becomes easier (a single chip) and is virtually unbreakable (unless, of course, you’re working for NSA!). Unfortunately for scanner enthusiasts, myself included, I think encrypted voice will likely become more common among law enforcement and fire departments as we move forward. Sorry about that…..
        Law enforcement, yes. Already seeing that trend over here. Fire? Not
        necessarily. In less populated areas, there is a lot of monitoring of
        fire frequencies by both the general public (including owners of private
        fire appliances) and volunteers, and this is seen as generally a good
        thing. Horses for courses.

        --
        73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
        http://vkradio.com
      • Jm Adams
        Tony: Where is over here ? I m in San Diego county, so far as I know law enforcement isn t encrypted here Sent from my iPhone
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 28, 2013
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          Tony:

          Where is over here ? I'm in San Diego county, so far as I know law enforcement isn't encrypted here

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Aug 28, 2013, at 5:23 PM, Tony Langdon <vk3jed@...> wrote:

          > On 29/08/13 2:52 AM, Michael Hopkins wrote:
          >>
          >> With the advent of digital communications encryption becomes easier (a single chip) and is virtually unbreakable (unless, of course, you’re working for NSA!). Unfortunately for scanner enthusiasts, myself included, I think encrypted voice will likely become more common among law enforcement and fire departments as we move forward. Sorry about that…..
          > Law enforcement, yes. Already seeing that trend over here. Fire? Not
          > necessarily. In less populated areas, there is a lot of monitoring of
          > fire frequencies by both the general public (including owners of private
          > fire appliances) and volunteers, and this is seen as generally a good
          > thing. Horses for courses.
          >
          > --
          > 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
          > http://vkradio.com
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • John Stark
          Not sure either..lol. but around here encryption is rare. A couple Indiana counties use it and one ISP unit south uses it but otherwise everything is pretty
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 28, 2013
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            Not sure either..lol. but around here encryption is rare. A couple Indiana counties use it and one ISP unit south uses it but otherwise everything is pretty much in the clear. Locally the sheriff is anti encryption as he knows people like myself listen, and on occasion help them out. If we had encryption here I wouldn't have gotten a small town bank robbers description, a week later I saw a guy who matched it and called and it was him. Not too long ago the dispatchers were getting nervous when they couldn't hear an officer, but I heard him fine so told them they were OK and the rest of the traffic stop they listened to my scanner over the phone so they could hear the officer! Things have been tense here since a traffic stop last year when an officer ended up in a pursuit and was shot. He is back to work now, but that night everyone wondered if he would make it. Especially those of us who heard it all first hand. Add to it it was the second night in a row with officers shot in our rural area.

            John

            Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

            Jm Adams <blastdad51@...> wrote:

            >Tony:
            >
            >Where is over here ? I'm in San Diego county, so far as I know law enforcement isn't encrypted here
            >
            >Sent from my iPhone
            >
            >On Aug 28, 2013, at 5:23 PM, Tony Langdon <vk3jed@...> wrote:
            >
            >> On 29/08/13 2:52 AM, Michael Hopkins wrote:
            >>>
            >>> With the advent of digital communications encryption becomes easier (a single chip) and is virtually unbreakable (unless, of course, you’re working for NSA!). Unfortunately for scanner enthusiasts, myself included, I think encrypted voice will likely become more common among law enforcement and fire departments as we move forward. Sorry about that…..
            >> Law enforcement, yes. Already seeing that trend over here. Fire? Not
            >> necessarily. In less populated areas, there is a lot of monitoring of
            >> fire frequencies by both the general public (including owners of private
            >> fire appliances) and volunteers, and this is seen as generally a good
            >> thing. Horses for courses.
            >>
            >> --
            >> 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
            >> http://vkradio.com
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tony Langdon
            ... I did send an obvious sign on the bottom of my message. :D I m in Australia. In Melbourne, the police have been encrypted since 2006 (their network was
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
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              On 29/08/13 12:19 PM, Jm Adams wrote:
              > Tony:
              >
              > Where is over here ? I'm in San Diego county, so far as I know law enforcement isn't encrypted here
              I did send an obvious sign on the bottom of my message. :D I'm in
              Australia. In Melbourne, the police have been encrypted since 2006
              (their network was upgraded in time for the 2006 Commonwealth Games).
              The encryption hasn't spread to the rural areas yet, this far out of
              town they are still running analog FM.

              --
              73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
              http://vkradio.com
            • Bob Burns W9BU
              ... John, my personal opinion is that political discussions have no place in a forum dedicated to a particular model of scanner. My opinions aside, your
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
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                At 02:37 PM 8/28/2013, John Stark wrote:

                >Mayor Ballard combined the police and sheriffs departments to save
                >$$ and it ended up costing millions more.

                John, my personal opinion is that political discussions have no place
                in a forum dedicated to a particular model of scanner.

                My opinions aside, your arguments would carry more weight if they
                were factual. The Indianapolis Police Department and Marion County
                Sheriff Department merger was approved by the City-County Council in
                2005 and occurred on January 1, 2007. Bart Peterson was Mayor then.

                Greg Ballard became Mayor on January 1, 2008.

                Bob...
              • John Stark
                That obvious sign is only good for hams it those who understand the call sign otherwise it wouldn t be that obvious... Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
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                  That "obvious" sign is only good for hams it those who understand the call sign otherwise it wouldn't be that obvious...


                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

                  Tony Langdon <vk3jed@...> wrote:

                  >On 29/08/13 12:19 PM, Jm Adams wrote:
                  >> Tony:
                  >>
                  >> Where is over here ? I'm in San Diego county, so far as I know law enforcement isn't encrypted here
                  >I did send an obvious sign on the bottom of my message. :D I'm in
                  >Australia. In Melbourne, the police have been encrypted since 2006
                  >(their network was upgraded in time for the 2006 Commonwealth Games).
                  >The encryption hasn't spread to the rural areas yet, this far out of
                  >town they are still running analog FM.
                  >
                  >--
                  >73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
                  >http://vkradio.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jm Adams
                  Tony: I m been missing signs since playing little league baseball in the 50s , I ll probably miss a few more before they shovel dirt in my face regards Bdad
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
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                    Tony: I'm been missing signs since playing little league baseball in the 50s , I'll probably miss a few more before they shovel dirt in my face regards Bdad

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Aug 30, 2013, at 3:28 AM, Tony Langdon <vk3jed@...> wrote:

                    > On 29/08/13 12:19 PM, Jm Adams wrote:
                    >> Tony:
                    >>
                    >> Where is over here ? I'm in San Diego county, so far as I know law enforcement isn't encrypted here
                    > I did send an obvious sign on the bottom of my message. :D I'm in
                    > Australia. In Melbourne, the police have been encrypted since 2006
                    > (their network was upgraded in time for the 2006 Commonwealth Games).
                    > The encryption hasn't spread to the rural areas yet, this far out of
                    > town they are still running analog FM.
                    >
                    > --
                    > 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
                    > http://vkradio.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Tony Langdon
                    ... Sorry, forgot which group I was in. This sort of discussion usually happens in another (ham) group :D -- 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 31, 2013
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                      On 31/08/13 12:42 AM, John Stark wrote:
                      > That "obvious" sign is only good for hams it those who understand the call sign otherwise it wouldn't be that obvious...
                      Sorry, forgot which group I was in. This sort of discussion usually
                      happens in another (ham) group :D

                      --
                      73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
                      http://vkradio.com
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