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Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT

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  • MCH
    If Joplin is using P25, the PRO-96 would work just as well as the 396 with the single exception if they are on the 700 MHz band. Otherwise, your 96 should pick
    Message 1 of 46 , May 7, 2013
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      If Joplin is using P25, the PRO-96 would work just as well as the 396
      with the single exception if they are on the 700 MHz band. Otherwise,
      your 96 should pick them up. Your 97 will not.

      Joe M.

      Preston Ward wrote:
      > Well, I know the 396 picks up the local Joplin PD and fire, but the Pro-96 & 97 do not. I believe it's because Joplin city is on an Apco-25 system. The Pro-96 & 97s will get the local Sheriffs, highway patrol, and rural fire but not Joplin city, and that's what I'm more interested in hearing (along with Springfield if possible).
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Mon, 5/6/13, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: MCH <mch@...>
      > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
      > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 5:38 PM
      >
      >
      > The nulling would occur no matter where you combine the antennas - be it
      > at the base of them or at the end of the feedline. What are the types of
      > signals the 396 picks up that the 96 does not?
      >
      > Joe M.
      >
      > Preston Ward wrote:
      >> Hmm... very interesting about Polyphaser. I can disconnect the antenna(s) when there's lightning around, but being that I'm in Tornado Alley, we often have thunderstorms that will sneak up on us, sometimes when I'm asleep too. And those are the ones I wonder & worry about.
      >>
      >> I just realized something though... I'm thinking about running two cables from an omnidirectional and a directional antenna, but I only have one scanner that picks up both the local AND Springfield signals (the BCD396XT), which are in the 400 and 800mhz range. Although I could attach one cable to my Pro-96 or Pro-97, they're not going to pick up the local city PD or Springfield PD or FD. So my only option would be to combine both antennas into one line and plug it into my BCD396XT. But doing that might cancel out the signals due to phasing issues(?). So now I'm confused and don't know what to do...
      >> Decisions decisions...
      >> Now I'm thinking what I may do it get an omnidirectional discone for the local city signals and a yagi to try to pick up the PD and FD from Springfield. Or the other (maybe even better) option would be to get a discone and a TV antenna like what I just posted a while ago and use that as a directional wideband antenna to Springfield...
      >>
      >> -pw
      >>
      >> P.S: I'm going through my message chronologically and am doing my best to catch up, so apologies to everyone if I say something that's out of phase in the flow of the conversation. Also, I have some memory issues stemming from health probs, so I sincerely apologize in advance to everyone if I forget about something that's already been covered or said before. If you catch me doing this, just remind me rather than think I'm not paying attention.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> --- On Mon, 5/6/13, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >> From: MCH <mch@...>
      >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
      >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      >> Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 8:54 AM
      >>
      >>
      >> If you can't disconnect the antennas, Polyphaser makes some awesome
      >> lightning protection devices. I've used them at many installations that
      >> have to remain on the air 24/7/365.
      >>
      >> Many years ago (pre-polyphaser) I had an installation on the air about 1
      >> week before lightning did about $2000 worth of damage. At the same
      >> installation, post-Polyphaser, I haven't had more than about $20 in
      >> damage ever since that strike. (And the lightning hit counter has
      >> recorded several hundred strikes.)
      >>
      >> Joe M.
      >>
      >> Michael Hopkins wrote:
      >>> Antennas:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Sounds to me like a fun experiment – I don’t think SWR or impedance is going
      >>> to be an issue—these don’t matter much for receiving – but what will matter
      >>> is phasing. In other words, if the signal from both antennas gets to the
      >>> radio being exactly out of phase and at the same amplitude, they will cancel
      >>> and if the signal arrives at the radio in phase from both antennas, they
      >>> will add and you’ll get a stronger signal. Lots of antenna designs use
      >>> phasing to produce gain and/or directivity at certain frequencies and it can
      >>> be achieved by feedline lengths, antenna element placement or both.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> You might find it works fine or you might find it doesn’t work well, but
      >>> likely it will be good as some frequencies and lousy on others – impossible
      >>> to predict without analysis of exact placements, feedline lengths, etc…
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Lightning suppression:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Having evaluated lightning protection devices and schemes for 30 years, I
      >>> can tell you the best solution is to disconnect the feedline into the
      >>> building during thunderstorms. My antennas all come down to a connector
      >>> block mounted on my garage wall so that I can easily disconnect the feedline
      >>> inside. The plate where the connectors come in is grounded to an 8 foot
      >>> ground rod via a ¾ inch braid (available at radio shack or on-line). Be
      >>> careful to make sure this ground is also connected to you house/building
      >>> ground so that you don’t have two separate grounds (during a lightning
      >>> strike you can get significant voltages between two grounds). You could use
      >>> #10 or bigger wire but since lightning currents will only flow on the
      >>> surface of the wire, solid or stranded won’t matter.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Good luck --- love to know how the experiment works out..
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Mike Hopkins K1VLB
      >>>
      >>> Mhopkins735@...
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> From: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      >>> Of Preston Ward
      >>> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:28 PM
      >>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      >>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Great info... thanks a bunch! (and to everyone who replied to me)
      >>> I guess what I'm thinking now is maybe I should put up a discone for local
      >>> wiseband scanning and a directional TV antenna or narrowband directional(s)
      >>> for those signals that are 70-75 miles away which I believe are in 154 and
      >>> 460 mhz ranges. I think log periodic antennas may be out of my price range
      >>> though. Is there any reason I couldn't wire two or more antennas together
      >>> in a splitter and have the signals combine into one cable? Or would it be
      >>> better to set up two scanners and use two cable runs from the mast?
      >>>
      >>> And then there's the issue of lightning suppression too... like what type of
      >>> wire to get for a ground wire?, where it's supposed to attach to the
      >>> antenna(s)?, and if this would be sufficient for in-line protection?
      >>>
      >>> Also, for a 50-60' cable run, is the thicker cable going to be all that
      >>> noticeable? (I think what I'm talking about is LMR400 vs RG58 -- but don't
      >>> hold me to it because don't know what I'm talking about here - LOL. It's
      >>> been over 35 years since I've been into radio stuff and I'm overwhelmed with
      >>> all the changes. Which brings me to the BCD396XT. Talk about being
      >>> overwhelmed... I had no idea how complicated this is. Last time I was
      >>> really in to scanners I was using crystals. The antenna thing I think I can
      >>> figure out what to do... the Uniden on the other hand, that may be a
      >>> different story. A lot of the stuff in the manual is like a different
      >>> language to me...
      >>>
      >>> Thanks again for all the help.
      >>>
      >>> --- On Wed, 5/1/13, Tony Langdon <vk3jed@...
      >>> <mailto:vk3jed%40vkradio.com> > wrote:
      >>>
      >>> From: Tony Langdon <vk3jed@... <mailto:vk3jed%40vkradio.com> >
      >>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
      >>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>
      >>> Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013, 7:39 PM
      >>>
      >>> On 2/05/13 7:30 AM, Preston Ward wrote:
      >>>> I'm looking to get a wideband omnidirectional base antenna too. I'm going
      >>> to put it 30-35' up. Anyway, I'm considering 4 models... does anyone have
      >>> any opinions on which one of these might be better?:
      >>> Normally I'd say one of the better discones, unless your interests are
      >>> limited to a specific band. I can comment on your suggestions, as I
      >>> don't know those antennas.
      >>>>
      >>>> Ideally, I'd like to be able to pick up one city 75 miles away, but I
      >>> still want to go with an omnidirectional at least for now.
      >>> Unless you're on a decent hill or mountain, your goals may be in
      >>> conflict. There is generally a tradeoff between gain, bandwidth (as
      >>> whether it covers a single band or is wideband) and directionality.
      >>> You're demanding at least 2 of those, if not all 3.
      >>>
      >>> The most likely antenna to get those signals from 75 miles away is a
      >>> directional antenna cut for a specific band. This focuses the signals
      >>> from one direction, and utilises all of the elements to contribute to
      >>> the gain.
      >>>
      >>> Omnidirectional antennas have to try to form a radiation pattern that
      >>> looks like a pancake, which means it focuses all of its attention on the
      >>> horizon. But even then, that volume of space is larger than the
      >>> directional case above, so the maximum possible gain is lower.
      >>>
      >>> Finally, a lot of broadband antennas don't use all of their radiating
      >>> elements on any given frequency, so these have even less ability to
      >>> focus the signals. However, that is compensated for by their extremely
      >>> wide bandwidth. You can get directional wideband antennas (e.g. a log
      >>> periodic), but their gain is a lot less than a Yagi or other narrowband
      >>> antenna cut for a specific frequency in the range covered.
      >>>
      >>> It may be that you either have to install 2 antennas and switch between
      >>> them, or run 2 scanners (maybe one of them can be a cheap scanner).
      >>>
      >>> Or move to a mountain midway between your target areas! ;)
      >>>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
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      >>
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      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
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      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • MICHAEL BENNETT
      How did your discone perform across all the bands? I bought an AUSTIN Ferrett for wideband reception but that was a total waste of money. ... [Non-text
      Message 46 of 46 , May 9, 2013
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        How did your discone perform across all the bands? I bought an AUSTIN
        Ferrett for wideband reception but that was a total waste of money.

        On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:53 PM, John Stark <johnstark@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > I do not have a lot of $$ but I still manage to have a really good setup
        > of scanners and antenna's. But I shop around and get the best possible
        > price as well. One 800mhz yagi I paid $10 for at a hamfest. Another I paid
        > $35 new. The only antenna I splurged on was the discone for $149. my setup
        > uses LMR400 for all antennas except one and it uses hard line that a Ham
        > gave to me. Each coax has lightning arrestors and multiple ground rods.
        > From the time I buy an antenna to the time it goes up it could be six
        > months before its working due to financial issues. Point being anyone can
        > have a nice antenna farm if they plan it out and do it as they can afford
        > to.
        > Oh and a tip for those cementing poles or towers in the ground. Make
        > certain you do not put the ground rod(s) too close to the concrete as it
        > can cause the concrete to explode! I have seen two so far that did explode
        > and the towers came crashing down.
        >
        > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
        >
        > Mark Mitchell <mdmitchell65@...> wrote:
        >
        > >with all due respect, I seriously doubt it. but what do I know if you have
        > >a couple of extra dollars to spend you could try experimenting and then
        > >you wouldn't have to keep beating on yourself wondering if it was possible
        > >or not...after all that is how Edison discovered electricity.
        > > however, you want to keep in mind that when you get ready to sell the
        > >antenna not to expect the going price as most will want a bargain after
        > all
        > >it is used.
        > >Now what you could do is have the pro-96, 97, 95, 92 or what ever you have
        > >that is capable of receiving Springfield and carry it with when you come
        > >to town and when your at home you could stream it from radioreference.
        > >Theory is that you get better reception from a antenna tuned to the proper
        > >frequency but when you are scanning various bands it certainly wouldn't
        > pay
        > >to buy that many antennas so hence the all-band or multi-band antenna.
        > >another thing to consider when putting up a antenna is that a mast needs
        > to
        > >have guy wires every ten foot.
        > >
        > >
        > >On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Preston Ward <ppreston69@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Joe,
        > >>
        > >> APCO-25 signals, for one... (I think)... which is what the city of
        > Joplin
        > >> runs, and the 400 & 800 mhz range too I believe. But I wouldn't swear to
        > >> it. I really don't know much about them either. That's why I'm here...
        > to
        > >> try to find out more about the 396XT. Because it's the only thing that
        > >> will get Joplin. At least AFAIK anyway.
        > >> Each time I got a scanner (Pro-34, 96 & 97) I was told they would pick
        > up
        > >> Joplin city. Now I finally have one that'll pick it up. Each time I got
        > >> one I took it to RS and they programmed it with all the local
        > frequencies
        > >> but they'd never work for me in picking up the local Joplin calls, just
        > the
        > >> local county sheriffs, highway patrol, and rural fire depts. And when
        > they
        > >> wouldn't work for what I wanted I just lost interest in them.
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> --- On Mon, 5/6/13, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> From: MCH <mch@...>
        > >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
        > >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
        > >> Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 5:38 PM
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> The nulling would occur no matter where you combine the antennas - be it
        > >> at the base of them or at the end of the feedline. What are the types of
        > >> signals the 396 picks up that the 96 does not?
        > >>
        > >> Joe M.
        > >>
        > >> Preston Ward wrote:
        > >> > Hmm... very interesting about Polyphaser. I can disconnect the
        > >> antenna(s) when there's lightning around, but being that I'm in Tornado
        > >> Alley, we often have thunderstorms that will sneak up on us, sometimes
        > when
        > >> I'm asleep too. And those are the ones I wonder & worry about.
        > >> >
        > >> > I just realized something though... I'm thinking about running two
        > >> cables from an omnidirectional and a directional antenna, but I only
        > have
        > >> one scanner that picks up both the local AND Springfield signals (the
        > >> BCD396XT), which are in the 400 and 800mhz range. Although I could
        > attach
        > >> one cable to my Pro-96 or Pro-97, they're not going to pick up the local
        > >> city PD or Springfield PD or FD. So my only option would be to combine
        > >> both antennas into one line and plug it into my BCD396XT. But doing that
        > >> might cancel out the signals due to phasing issues(?). So now I'm
        > confused
        > >> and don't know what to do...
        > >> > Decisions decisions...
        > >> > Now I'm thinking what I may do it get an omnidirectional discone for
        > the
        > >> local city signals and a yagi to try to pick up the PD and FD from
        > >> Springfield. Or the other (maybe even better) option would be to get a
        > >> discone and a TV antenna like what I just posted a while ago and use
        > that
        > >> as a directional wideband antenna to Springfield...
        > >> >
        > >> > -pw
        > >> >
        > >> > P.S: I'm going through my message chronologically and am doing my best
        > >> to catch up, so apologies to everyone if I say something that's out of
        > >> phase in the flow of the conversation. Also, I have some memory issues
        > >> stemming from health probs, so I sincerely apologize in advance to
        > everyone
        > >> if I forget about something that's already been covered or said before.
        > If
        > >> you catch me doing this, just remind me rather than think I'm not paying
        > >> attention.
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > --- On Mon, 5/6/13, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > From: MCH <mch@...>
        > >> > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
        > >> > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
        > >> > Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 8:54 AM
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > If you can't disconnect the antennas, Polyphaser makes some awesome
        > >> > lightning protection devices. I've used them at many installations
        > that
        > >> > have to remain on the air 24/7/365.
        > >> >
        > >> > Many years ago (pre-polyphaser) I had an installation on the air
        > about 1
        > >> > week before lightning did about $2000 worth of damage. At the same
        > >> > installation, post-Polyphaser, I haven't had more than about $20 in
        > >> > damage ever since that strike. (And the lightning hit counter has
        > >> > recorded several hundred strikes.)
        > >> >
        > >> > Joe M.
        > >> >
        > >> > Michael Hopkins wrote:
        > >> >> Antennas:
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Sounds to me like a fun experiment � I don�t think SWR or impedance
        > is
        > >> going
        > >> >> to be an issue�these don�t matter much for receiving � but what will
        > >> matter
        > >> >> is phasing. In other words, if the signal from both antennas gets to
        > the
        > >> >> radio being exactly out of phase and at the same amplitude, they will
        > >> cancel
        > >> >> and if the signal arrives at the radio in phase from both antennas,
        > they
        > >> >> will add and you�ll get a stronger signal. Lots of antenna designs
        > use
        > >> >> phasing to produce gain and/or directivity at certain frequencies and
        > >> it can
        > >> >> be achieved by feedline lengths, antenna element placement or both.
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> You might find it works fine or you might find it doesn�t work well,
        > but
        > >> >> likely it will be good as some frequencies and lousy on others �
        > >> impossible
        > >> >> to predict without analysis of exact placements, feedline lengths,
        > etc�
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Lightning suppression:
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Having evaluated lightning protection devices and schemes for 30
        > years,
        > >> I
        > >> >> can tell you the best solution is to disconnect the feedline into the
        > >> >> building during thunderstorms. My antennas all come down to a
        > connector
        > >> >> block mounted on my garage wall so that I can easily disconnect the
        > >> feedline
        > >> >> inside. The plate where the connectors come in is grounded to an 8
        > foot
        > >> >> ground rod via a � inch braid (available at radio shack or on-line).
        > Be
        > >> >> careful to make sure this ground is also connected to you
        > house/building
        > >> >> ground so that you don�t have two separate grounds (during a
        > lightning
        > >> >> strike you can get significant voltages between two grounds). You
        > could
        > >> use
        > >> >> #10 or bigger wire but since lightning currents will only flow on the
        > >> >> surface of the wire, solid or stranded won�t matter.
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Good luck --- love to know how the experiment works out..
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Mike Hopkins K1VLB
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Mhopkins735@...
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> From: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com] On
        > >> Behalf
        > >> >> Of Preston Ward
        > >> >> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:28 PM
        > >> >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
        > >> >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Great info... thanks a bunch! (and to everyone who replied to me)
        > >> >> I guess what I'm thinking now is maybe I should put up a discone for
        > >> local
        > >> >> wiseband scanning and a directional TV antenna or narrowband
        > >> directional(s)
        > >> >> for those signals that are 70-75 miles away which I believe are in
        > 154
        > >> and
        > >> >> 460 mhz ranges. I think log periodic antennas may be out of my price
        > >> range
        > >> >> though. Is there any reason I couldn't wire two or more antennas
        > >> together
        > >> >> in a splitter and have the signals combine into one cable? Or would
        > it
        > >> be
        > >> >> better to set up two scanners and use two cable runs from the mast?
        > >> >>
        > >> >> And then there's the issue of lightning suppression too... like what
        > >> type of
        > >> >> wire to get for a ground wire?, where it's supposed to attach to the
        > >> >> antenna(s)?, and if this would be sufficient for in-line protection?
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Also, for a 50-60' cable run, is the thicker cable going to be all
        > that
        > >> >> noticeable? (I think what I'm talking about is LMR400 vs RG58 -- but
        > >> don't
        > >> >> hold me to it because don't know what I'm talking about here - LOL.
        > >> It's
        > >> >> been over 35 years since I've been into radio stuff and I'm
        > overwhelmed
        > >> with
        > >> >> all the changes. Which brings me to the BCD396XT. Talk about being
        > >> >> overwhelmed... I had no idea how complicated this is. Last time I was
        > >> >> really in to scanners I was using crystals. The antenna thing I think
        > >> I can
        > >> >> figure out what to do... the Uniden on the other hand, that may be a
        > >> >> different story. A lot of the stuff in the manual is like a different
        > >> >> language to me...
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Thanks again for all the help.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> --- On Wed, 5/1/13, Tony Langdon <vk3jed@...
        > >> >> <mailto:vk3jed%40vkradio.com> > wrote:
        > >> >>
        > >> >> From: Tony Langdon <vk3jed@... <mailto:vk3jed%40vkradio.com>
        > >
        > >> >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Antenna Options for my BCD396XT
        > >> >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>
        > >> >> Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013, 7:39 PM
        > >> >>
        > >> >> On 2/05/13 7:30 AM, Preston Ward wrote:
        > >> >>> I'm looking to get a wideband omnidirectional base antenna too. I'm
        > >> going
        > >> >> to put it 30-35' up. Anyway, I'm considering 4 models... does anyone
        > >> have
        > >> >> any opinions on which one of these might be better?:
        > >> >> Normally I'd say one of the better discones, unless your interests
        > are
        > >> >> limited to a specific band. I can comment on your suggestions, as I
        > >> >> don't know those antennas.
        > >> >>>
        > >> >>> Ideally, I'd like to be able to pick up one city 75 miles away, but
        > I
        > >> >> still want to go with an omnidirectional at least for now.
        > >> >> Unless you're on a decent hill or mountain, your goals may be in
        > >> >> conflict. There is generally a tradeoff between gain, bandwidth (as
        > >> >> whether it covers a single band or is wideband) and directionality.
        > >> >> You're demanding at least 2 of those, if not all 3.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> The most likely antenna to get those signals from 75 miles away is a
        > >> >> directional antenna cut for a specific band. This focuses the signals
        > >> >> from one direction, and utilises all of the elements to contribute to
        > >> >> the gain.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Omnidirectional antennas have to try to form a radiation pattern that
        > >> >> looks like a pancake, which means it focuses all of its attention on
        > >> the
        > >> >> horizon. But even then, that volume of space is larger than the
        > >> >> directional case above, so the maximum possible gain is lower.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Finally, a lot of broadband antennas don't use all of their radiating
        > >> >> elements on any given frequency, so these have even less ability to
        > >> >> focus the signals. However, that is compensated for by their
        > extremely
        > >> >> wide bandwidth. You can get directional wideband antennas (e.g. a log
        > >> >> periodic), but their gain is a lot less than a Yagi or other
        > narrowband
        > >> >> antenna cut for a specific frequency in the range covered.
        > >> >>
        > >> >> It may be that you either have to install 2 antennas and switch
        > between
        > >> >> them, or run 2 scanners (maybe one of them can be a cheap scanner).
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Or move to a mountain midway between your target areas! ;)
        > >> >>
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > ------------------------------------
        > >> >
        > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > ------------------------------------
        > >> >
        > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > >> > Version: 9.0.932 / Virus Database: 3164.1.1/5802 - Release Date:
        > >> 05/06/13 02:10:00
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >> ------------------------------------
        > >>
        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >--
        > >Mark ~
        > >
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >------------------------------------
        > >
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


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