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Re: [BCD396XT] Winnebago County Wisconsin

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  • MCH
    Make sure you are using the latest firmware in your XT. Joe M.
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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      Make sure you are using the latest firmware in your XT.

      Joe M.

      Mike wrote:
      > Tom, I just purchased my first 396XT yesterday. Radio Shack had them on
      > sale for 419.99, which was only a few dollars more than getting it on
      > Amazon.com and having to wait for it.
      >
      > Anyway, yes I am monitoring the new Winnebago County WI P25 simulcast
      > system on the XT. Previous to that I was listening to it on my PRO-96,
      > but that radio has some alignment problems. I downloaded the trunked
      > system to the scanner with FreeScan via RadioReference.com, but I've
      > since tried and purchased ARC-XT Pro, which I like a lot better than
      > FreeScan. The system downloaded ok to the laptop and uploaded ok to the
      > XT and took right off on the XT. I've since changed some of the
      > talkgroup names to be more to my liking. I will say that the audio
      > quality of this system on the XT leaves a lot to be desired. Although
      > far from perfect, the audio was somewhat better on my PRO-96. But it's
      > readable. I did go into the hidden menu (hold down "Hold" and turn
      > scanner on) to adjust the P25 decode level down from 50 to 11. Not sure
      > if that's optimum for this system or not. I haven't had a chance to
      > play with that some more.
      >
      > If you are programming it by hand on the scanner itself, I'm not
      > familiar enough with that process yet to be of much help, but there are
      > plenty of others here that know a lot more about this radio than I do.
      >
      > Mike
      >
      > On 3/28/2013 11:32 AM, Tom wrote:
      >> Has anyone here been using the 396XT to monitor Winnebago County's traffic? And. . . would you share your experiences with programming the 396XT for Winnebago Country.
      >>
      >> Tom
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 9.0.932 / Virus Database: 2641.1.1/5710 - Release Date: 03/28/13 03:39:00
      >
    • Tom
      Mike, what sold you on the ARC-XT Pro??
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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        Mike, what sold you on the ARC-XT Pro??
      • Tom
        Joe, I am assuming that the latest version is the one in the file section? You know what they say about assuming! Tom
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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          Joe, I am assuming that the latest version is the one in the file section? You know what they say about assuming!

          Tom
        • Tom
          Mike, Also, are you getting the State Patrol? Tom
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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            Mike, Also, are you getting the State Patrol?

            Tom
          • MCH
            Might be. Download the updater from Uniden s website and perform the update using that. That way you will make sure you have the latest. The new updater does
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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              Might be. Download the updater from Uniden's website and perform the
              update using that. That way you will make sure you have the latest.

              The new updater does not require a file download/load or certain
              keypresses to enter update mode - it takes are of everything automatically.

              Joe M.

              Tom wrote:
              > Joe, I am assuming that the latest version is the one in the file section? You know what they say about assuming!
              >
              > Tom
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Mike
              Good point, Joe. Mine came with 1.10.00. I found the BC_VUP3 upgrader and put 1.11.01 on the XT. To my knowledge, that is the latest firmware, right? Mike
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                Good point, Joe. Mine came with 1.10.00. I found the BC_VUP3 upgrader
                and put 1.11.01 on the XT. To my knowledge, that is the latest
                firmware, right?

                Mike

                On 3/28/2013 8:13 PM, MCH wrote:
                > Make sure you are using the latest firmware in your XT.
                >
                > Joe M.
                >
                > Mike wrote:
                >> Tom, I just purchased my first 396XT yesterday. Radio Shack had them on
                >> sale for 419.99, which was only a few dollars more than getting it on
                >> Amazon.com and having to wait for it.
                >>
                >> Anyway, yes I am monitoring the new Winnebago County WI P25 simulcast
                >> system on the XT. Previous to that I was listening to it on my PRO-96,
                >> but that radio has some alignment problems. I downloaded the trunked
                >> system to the scanner with FreeScan via RadioReference.com, but I've
                >> since tried and purchased ARC-XT Pro, which I like a lot better than
                >> FreeScan. The system downloaded ok to the laptop and uploaded ok to the
                >> XT and took right off on the XT. I've since changed some of the
                >> talkgroup names to be more to my liking. I will say that the audio
                >> quality of this system on the XT leaves a lot to be desired. Although
                >> far from perfect, the audio was somewhat better on my PRO-96. But it's
                >> readable. I did go into the hidden menu (hold down "Hold" and turn
                >> scanner on) to adjust the P25 decode level down from 50 to 11. Not sure
                >> if that's optimum for this system or not. I haven't had a chance to
                >> play with that some more.
                >>
                >> If you are programming it by hand on the scanner itself, I'm not
                >> familiar enough with that process yet to be of much help, but there are
                >> plenty of others here that know a lot more about this radio than I do.
                >>
                >> Mike
                >>
                >> On 3/28/2013 11:32 AM, Tom wrote:
                >>> Has anyone here been using the 396XT to monitor Winnebago County's traffic? And. . . would you share your experiences with programming the 396XT for Winnebago Country.
                >>>
                >>> Tom
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> ------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>
                >>
                >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                >> Version: 9.0.932 / Virus Database: 2641.1.1/5710 - Release Date: 03/28/13 03:39:00
                >>
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Philip Scott
                I m not monitoring in that area, but I have had 3 different BuTel programs for BC250d, BC-396T and now BC-396XT...there are a lot of great features but mostly
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                  I'm not monitoring in that area, but I have had 3 different BuTel programs
                  for BC250d, BC-396T and now BC-396XT...there are a lot of great features
                  but mostly it's about sensible design and easy use.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mike
                  Well, first of all, the price was right on FreeScan, but to me it wasn t real user friendly and it didn t display correctly on my puter. Not sure if it needs
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                    Well, first of all, the price was right on FreeScan, but to me it wasn't
                    real user friendly and it didn't display correctly on my puter. Not
                    sure if it needs an earlier version of Java or what the problem is, but
                    the text boxes had words cut off, etc. So, I downloaded the trial
                    version of ARC-XT Pro, and it had a much better and more intuitive
                    layout. To me it was a better written program with added features like
                    bandscan, and a nice graphical representation of all of the systems and
                    groups, with the ability to drag and drop groups and systems wherever
                    you want them.

                    $70 is a bit pricey, but in the long run it will save me tons of time
                    and frustration.

                    Mike

                    On 3/28/2013 8:18 PM, Tom wrote:
                    > Mike, what sold you on the ARC-XT Pro??
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > .
                    >
                  • Mike
                    I haven t gotten that far yet, Tom. I need to do some research on the WI State Patrol, as I know a lot of things have changed with their systems. I still had
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                      I haven't gotten that far yet, Tom. I need to do some research on the
                      WI State Patrol, as I know a lot of things have changed with their
                      systems. I still had old VHF freqs in my PRO-96, which still had
                      activity on them at times.

                      Mike

                      On 3/28/2013 8:35 PM, Tom wrote:
                      > Mike, Also, are you getting the State Patrol?
                      >
                      > Tom
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Mike
                      I ll second what Joe said. Very easy to do with the updater he mentioned. I had the updater downloaded and the XT upgraded in 10 -15 minutes. Just make sure
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                        I'll second what Joe said. Very easy to do with the updater he
                        mentioned. I had the updater downloaded and the XT upgraded in 10 -15
                        minutes. Just make sure the XT is plugged into power and if you use a
                        laptop that it's also plugged in. Stopping the upgrade in mid-stream is
                        a sure way to turn the XT into a brick.

                        http://info.uniden.com/twiki/pub/publish/BCD396XTFirmwareUpdate.html

                        Mike

                        On 3/28/2013 9:07 PM, MCH wrote:
                        > Might be. Download the updater from Uniden's website and perform the
                        > update using that. That way you will make sure you have the latest.
                        >
                        > The new updater does not require a file download/load or certain
                        > keypresses to enter update mode - it takes are of everything automatically.
                        >
                        > Joe M.
                        >
                        > Tom wrote:
                        >> Joe, I am assuming that the latest version is the one in the file section? You know what they say about assuming!
                        >>
                        >> Tom
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Clark Rennie
                        P25 Simulcast Systems seem to be giving scanner enthusiasts problems. Here in Los Angeles, a new systems is being brought online and many of us are having
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                          P25 Simulcast Systems seem to be giving scanner enthusiasts problems. Here
                          in Los Angeles, a new systems is being brought online and many of us are
                          having problems.
                          It's this one http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7492.

                          I have a BCD396XT, a BCD996XT and a PRO 197, all with the latest firmware
                          and the reception is choppy, missing transmissions and just plain awful.
                          With the two XTs, I have adjusted the P25 mode and level with no
                          satisfactory results.
                          The PRO 197 has no adjustments.

                          I sure wish I knew what the problem is and if Uniden is working on it.
                          Conventional P25 and other digital systems (such as this
                          http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2856) are perfect.

                          Clark
                        • John Stark
                          Do you have the latest update? That fixes most of the simulcast issue. However not every system is set up to spec so if its a new system the fix may actually
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                            Do you have the latest update? That fixes most of the simulcast issue. However not every system is set up to spec so if its a new system the fix may actually be that its out of spec and will be tuned up as users go on line. It took two years to lower the user complaints on Indy's system. There are still issues though and some may never be fixed. Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame is on Motorola!



                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

                            Clark Rennie <c.rennie1@...> wrote:

                            >P25 Simulcast Systems seem to be giving scanner enthusiasts problems. Here
                            >in Los Angeles, a new systems is being brought online and many of us are
                            >having problems.
                            >It's this one http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7492.
                            >
                            >I have a BCD396XT, a BCD996XT and a PRO 197, all with the latest firmware
                            >and the reception is choppy, missing transmissions and just plain awful.
                            >With the two XTs, I have adjusted the P25 mode and level with no
                            >satisfactory results.
                            >The PRO 197 has no adjustments.
                            >
                            >I sure wish I knew what the problem is and if Uniden is working on it.
                            >Conventional P25 and other digital systems (such as this
                            >http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2856) are perfect.
                            >
                            >Clark
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >------------------------------------
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Clark Rennie
                            As I stated, yes, I do have the newest firmware updated. Clark
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 28, 2013
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                              As I stated, yes, I do have the newest firmware updated.

                              Clark

                              At 09:13 PM 3/28/2013, you wrote:

                              >Do you have the latest update? That fixes most of the simulcast issue.
                              >However not every system is set up to spec so if its a new system the fix
                              >may actually be that its out of spec and will be tuned up as users go on
                              >line. It took two years to lower the user complaints on Indy's system.
                              >There are still issues though and some may never be fixed. Don't blame it
                              >all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame is on Motorola!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
                              >
                              >Clark Rennie <c.rennie1@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >P25 Simulcast Systems seem to be giving scanner enthusiasts problems. Here
                              > >in Los Angeles, a new systems is being brought online and many of us are
                              > >having problems.
                              > >It's this one http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7492.
                              > >
                              > >I have a BCD396XT, a BCD996XT and a PRO 197, all with the latest firmware
                              > >and the reception is choppy, missing transmissions and just plain awful.
                              > >With the two XTs, I have adjusted the P25 mode and level with no
                              > >satisfactory results.
                              > >The PRO 197 has no adjustments.
                              > >
                              > >I sure wish I knew what the problem is and if Uniden is working on it.
                              > >Conventional P25 and other digital systems (such as this
                              > >http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2856) are perfect.
                              > >
                              > >Clark
                            • MCH
                              Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company. There are
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains
                                the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company.

                                There are several types of P25 systems, and if the installer/ maintainer
                                uses the wrong set of specs the system will not function well.

                                Joe M.

                                John Stark wrote:
                                > Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame is on Motorola!
                              • Thomas Makofski
                                Seems like I have lost all State Patrol activity on VHF. Are you getting any Fire Activity? I am still getting them on VHF and wonder if they are mid-stream in
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                  Seems like I have lost all State Patrol activity on VHF.

                                  Are you getting any Fire Activity? I am still getting them on VHF and wonder if
                                  they are mid-stream in making the change?



                                  Tom Makofski

                                  photo gallery
                                  http://tmak.smugmug.com/


                                  newifree-mo
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newifreemo/?yguid=353416413


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Mike
                                  I programmed in all of the State Patrol common freqs and the northeast district dispatch freq (154.935) last night. I ll see what I get as I travel around. I
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                    I programmed in all of the State Patrol common freqs and the northeast
                                    district dispatch freq (154.935) last night. I'll see what I get as I
                                    travel around. I did hear traffic on that channel as late as last week,
                                    but it was quite weak.

                                    I'm not sure what this system is all about - *Wisconsin Interoperable
                                    System for Communications (WISCOM)
                                    <http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6364> *- and I'm not sure if
                                    the State Patrol is on there or not. There are no system frequencies
                                    listed for Winnebago or Outagamie Counties, but there are for Brown,
                                    Calumet, and Fond du Lac. There are talk groups for the WSP listed.

                                    Yes, I do get fire dispatch activity on the Red VHF channel. I read
                                    somewhere that the fire depts won't switch over right away.

                                    We should probably take this type of discussion over to the Scan-Wis
                                    group, since it's not really related to the 396XT. I don't want to
                                    stray too much off topic of the list.

                                    Mike

                                    On 3/29/2013 8:07 AM, Thomas Makofski wrote:
                                    > Seems like I have lost all State Patrol activity on VHF.
                                    >
                                    > Are you getting any Fire Activity? I am still getting them on VHF and wonder if
                                    > they are mid-stream in making the change?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Tom Makofski
                                    >
                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Mike
                                    You both are on to something. It appeared like the new Winnebago County WI system was off the air for a while late last night. Today, without any changes to
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                      You both are on to something. It appeared like the new Winnebago County
                                      WI system was off the air for a while late last night. Today, without
                                      any changes to the XT on my part, the traffic on the system is much
                                      clearer. Too early to tell, but it seems like the local Moto shop boys
                                      did some upgrades or changes last night. Several of us heard a sheriff's
                                      deputy cussing out the new radios a few days ago when he couldn't make
                                      dispatch hear him after several tries.

                                      Mike

                                      On 3/29/2013 8:00 AM, MCH wrote:
                                      > Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains
                                      > the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company.
                                      >
                                      > There are several types of P25 systems, and if the installer/ maintainer
                                      > uses the wrong set of specs the system will not function well.
                                      >
                                      > Joe M.
                                      >
                                      > John Stark wrote:
                                      >> Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame is on Motorola!
                                      >
                                    • Thomas Makofski
                                      See ya there! Tom Makofski photo gallery http://tmak.smugmug.com/ newifree-mo http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newifreemo/?yguid=353416413 [Non-text portions of
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                        See ya there!


                                        Tom Makofski

                                        photo gallery
                                        http://tmak.smugmug.com/


                                        newifree-mo
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newifreemo/?yguid=353416413


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • John Stark
                                        Motorola techs do have to oversee all phases of system construction and the settings of the system and they ARE ultimately responsible. They have two Moto
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                          Motorola techs do have to oversee all phases of system construction and the settings of the system and they ARE ultimately responsible. They have two Moto techs still in Indy working on the system three years later even though a contractor and city employees do the majority of the work on the system its still the Motorola techs who take the heat and responsibility for the issues.

                                          Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

                                          MCH <mch@...> wrote:

                                          >Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains
                                          >the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company.
                                          >
                                          >There are several types of P25 systems, and if the installer/ maintainer
                                          >uses the wrong set of specs the system will not function well.
                                          >
                                          >Joe M.
                                          >
                                          >John Stark wrote:
                                          >> Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame is on Motorola!
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Clark Rennie
                                          I ran across this info on Radio Reference concerning P25 Adjustments. Just wondering if with the latest Firmware that if this info. is still valid.
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                            I ran across this info on Radio Reference concerning P25 Adjustments. Just
                                            wondering if with the latest Firmware that if this info. is still valid.
                                            http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/P25_audio_decode_level_adjustment

                                            Clark


                                            At 06:00 AM 3/29/2013, you wrote:

                                            >Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains
                                            >the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company.
                                            >
                                            >There are several types of P25 systems, and if the installer/ maintainer
                                            >uses the wrong set of specs the system will not function well.
                                            >
                                            >Joe M.
                                            >
                                            >John Stark wrote:
                                            > > Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame
                                            > is on Motorola!
                                          • Robert Klamp Jr.
                                            It is From: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clark Rennie Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 12:06 PM To:
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                              It is



                                              From: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              Of Clark Rennie
                                              Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 12:06 PM
                                              To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Scanners and P25 Simulcast Systems





                                              I ran across this info on Radio Reference concerning P25 Adjustments. Just
                                              wondering if with the latest Firmware that if this info. is still valid.
                                              http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/P25_audio_decode_level_adjustment

                                              Clark

                                              At 06:00 AM 3/29/2013, you wrote:

                                              >Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains
                                              >the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company.
                                              >
                                              >There are several types of P25 systems, and if the installer/ maintainer
                                              >uses the wrong set of specs the system will not function well.
                                              >
                                              >Joe M.
                                              >
                                              >John Stark wrote:
                                              > > Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame
                                              > is on Motorola!





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • k6ccchome
                                              You missed a major one. Motorola (or whoever is building the system) designs a system, and if built that way would have worked quite well. However the
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                                You missed a major one. Motorola (or whoever is building the system) designs a system, and if built that way would have worked quite well. However the customer says something like "that's too much money, what can you do for [something like 50 - 75%]". So the project gets hacked a bunch, and what do you know, it doesn't work very well - who would have thunk it???

                                                Jim


                                                --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains
                                                > the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company.
                                                >
                                                > There are several types of P25 systems, and if the installer/ maintainer
                                                > uses the wrong set of specs the system will not function well.
                                                >
                                                > Joe M.
                                                >
                                                > John Stark wrote:
                                                > > Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame is on Motorola!
                                                >
                                              • John Stark
                                                And in the case of Indianapolis they had signed a contract that stated the system was to have 11 sites. However AFTER the system was built Motorola cried foul
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                                  And in the case of Indianapolis they had signed a contract that stated the system was to have 11 sites. However AFTER the system was built Motorola cried foul and changed the system into a simulcast system because they would have lost money on the deal. As it was the city ended up paying millions in cost overruns. I still have logs of the system when it was first turned on and two months later it became a simulcast system. When each site had its own frequencies things worked much better for everyone. After the change it has been horrible! It is still an oddball system using four CC's two North of 70 and two South but it all shows up as one simulcast system.


                                                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

                                                  k6ccchome <jim@...> wrote:

                                                  >You missed a major one. Motorola (or whoever is building the system) designs a system, and if built that way would have worked quite well. However the customer says something like "that's too much money, what can you do for [something like 50 - 75%]". So the project gets hacked a bunch, and what do you know, it doesn't work very well - who would have thunk it???
                                                  >
                                                  >Jim
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >--- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Actually, the blame is usually on the company that installs or maintains
                                                  >> the system. This is usually *not* Motorola, but a local service company.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> There are several types of P25 systems, and if the installer/ maintainer
                                                  >> uses the wrong set of specs the system will not function well.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Joe M.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> John Stark wrote:
                                                  >> > Don't blame it all on Uniden though as much of if not most of the blame is on Motorola!
                                                  >>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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