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Re: [BCD396XT] Re: Dstar

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  • MCH
    Kenwood sells D-STAR radios in Japan. They have not marketed it in the USA (likely due to their market potential research). Upon further research, it looks
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 4, 2012
      Kenwood sells D-STAR radios in Japan. They have not marketed
      it in the USA (likely due to their market potential research). Upon
      further research, it looks like Kenwood has pulled out of the Japanese
      market.

      I'm sure it would be a similar decision on Uniden's part (for the USA
      market). They have to look at the cost vs sales increase realized by the
      availability of the format. From what I understand, they were offered a
      license for OpenSky, but decided it was too high cost for the additional
      market increase. Other scanner manufacturers likely came to the same
      conclusion. Between the small market for Open Sky and the system issues
      which threaten its future, it's probably not worth the investment.

      While D-STAR has a much wider market base, it is really restricted to
      ham radio which is not a big selling point for scanners. Most people
      want scanners to monitor public safety agencies, not hams.

      Joe M.

      Alex wrote:
      > Who else is promoting D-STAR? Other than Icom I haven't seen any manufacturer interested in using it. Kenwood and Yaesu/Vertex have held back (probably a wait-and-see).
      >
      > --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
      >> And technically speaking (AKA picking nits), D-STAR is a JARL format,
      >> not Icom. Icom just happens to be the largest (but not only) promoter of
      >> the format outside Japan.
      >>
      >> Joe M.
      >>
      >> Doug Johnson wrote:
      >>> Gidday All,
      >>>
      >>> Will the UBCD396XT decode the Icom based amateur Dstar ?
      >>>
      >>> Regards,
      >>>
      >>> Doug VK2XLJ
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
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      >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
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      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • MCH
      I think the big issue with its slow growth are the benefits vs cost issues. Most people have analog equipment. Relatively few have D-STAR. So, in an emergency
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 4, 2012
        I think the big issue with its slow growth are the benefits vs cost
        issues. Most people have analog equipment. Relatively few have D-STAR.
        So, in an emergency it will be primarily analog that will be useful.

        Also, there is a difference between digital and encrypted. D-STAR is not
        encrypted in any form, so it's legal per Part 97. You can purchase a
        dongle and monitor the conversations.

        Joe M.

        David Klippel wrote:
        > I believe you're right that aren't any radio manufactures even though
        > Kenwood said they would and had a radio (built by Icom) initially that
        > they since dropped. There are other manufactures providing a dongle
        > option for use on a computer.
        >
        > Personally I don't understand how the FCC permitted this D-Star for
        > Amateur Radio. My understanding is that is it a licensed technology and
        > not open and free for anyone to use. This makes it more like an
        > encrypted/scrambled private transmission as well as a commercial pay to
        > play option which are counter to the basis of the hobby. I am sure this
        > is also a big part of its slow growth.
        >
        > On 6/4/2012 5:08 PM, Alex wrote:
        >> Who else is promoting D-STAR? Other than Icom I haven't seen any
        >> manufacturer interested in using it. Kenwood and Yaesu/Vertex have
        >> held back (probably a wait-and-see).
        >>
        >> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>,
        >> MCH <mch@...> wrote:
        >>> And technically speaking (AKA picking nits), D-STAR is a JARL format,
        >>> not Icom. Icom just happens to be the largest (but not only)
        >> promoter of
        >>> the format outside Japan.
        >>>
        >>> Joe M.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2425.1.1/5044 - Release Date: 06/04/12 02:35:00
        >
      • David Klippel
        Technically you are correct D-STAR is open but the codec is not and requires a license to decode so in function it is essentially encrypted/scrambled . Yes,
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 4, 2012
          Technically you are correct D-STAR is open but the codec is not and
          requires a license to decode so in function it is essentially
          'encrypted/scrambled'. Yes, you can purchase a dongle but it is still
          using a license Codec that you paid for. You can't legally reverse
          engineer the Codec and listen or transmit. The cost benefit is a big
          part of the issue and with just one manufacture using it does not help.
          If there were more options and free/open Codec in use it would be much
          further along in growth and acceptance.

          I feel a similar thing is happening with HD Radio. There are plenty of
          broadcasters but unfortunately not many radios with it built in. The car
          radio is becoming common to have HD. If you want to listen to HD on the
          beach or park where a small portable radio would be used or even in a
          home stereo or A/V receiver your options are very limited.

          This could go on but as for the original scanning question they need a
          license for the Codec it is a small audience for them to add the cost.
          Though as a Ham it would great to be able to monitor the D-STAR activity
          and maybe become convinced it is worth the cost.

          On 6/4/2012 6:32 PM, MCH wrote:
          >
          > I think the big issue with its slow growth are the benefits vs cost
          > issues. Most people have analog equipment. Relatively few have D-STAR.
          > So, in an emergency it will be primarily analog that will be useful.
          >
          > Also, there is a difference between digital and encrypted. D-STAR is not
          > encrypted in any form, so it's legal per Part 97. You can purchase a
          > dongle and monitor the conversations.
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dean B. Dalrymple
          About a year and half ago the club I was part of (before moving to a different city) invited a rep from Icom to come in and talk about their radios with the
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 5, 2012
            About a year and half ago the club I was part of (before moving to a
            different city) invited a rep from Icom to come in and talk about
            their radios with the focus primarily on the D-Star radios. While the
            technology is impressive, I don't see it ever becoming wide spread in
            the hobby.

            As Joe has pointed out, in an emergency it will be primarily analog
            that is used. Where I live ARES is part of the county's emergency
            plan so our communications need to be easily and inexpensively
            monitored by numerous agencies from local emergency services to the
            Red Cross. Costs of D-Star radios would prevent that.

            Dean VA3DBD


            At 06:32 PM 6/4/2012, MCH wrote:
            >I think the big issue with its slow growth are the benefits vs cost
            >issues. Most people have analog equipment. Relatively few have D-STAR.
            >So, in an emergency it will be primarily analog that will be useful.
          • Alex
            PC board real estate is expensive, microcode space isn t. Given the component density already in the 396 I don t think it is quite so easy to cram one more
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 5, 2012
              PC board real estate is expensive, microcode space isn't. Given the component density already in the 396 I don't think it is quite so easy to cram one more chip in there. If Uniden really wanted D-STAR then they'd likely just license the codec algorithms and code that into the microprocessor just like all the other digital codecs that are currently processed.

              --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Langdon, VK3JED" <vk3jed@...> wrote:
              >
              > At 07:06 AM 6/5/2012, you wrote:
              > >If DVSI ever releases the code for the AMBE codec used in the radios
              > >then any radio like the 396XT could do it in its firmware.
              >
              > All the manufacturers have to do is include the right chip in their
              > scanner to handle the AMBE audio (same as they do for IMBE that P25
              > uses). Probably be one that can do both formats, since both are DVSI
              > products. The test of the D-STAR spec is open, and can (and has!) be
              > implemented by third parties.
              >
              > 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL
              > http://vkradio.com
              >
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