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Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

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  • Lance Star
    Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto mode for demodulation. What are the deviation settings in this radio for: NFM FM
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 1, 2010
      Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto
      mode for demodulation.

      What are the deviation settings in this radio for:

      NFM

      FM

      FMB

      I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section yet.

      Thanks UPMan!











      ________________________________
      From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
      To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
      Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...


      Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the service is

      transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM. But, on a
      Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in the audio
      being much louder.
      UPMan

      ________________________________
      From: milcom_chaser <milcom_chaser@...>
      To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
      Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...



      I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close call in
      DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency, it's audio

      level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio within a
      group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone else has
      noticed this as well?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Uniden UPMan
      http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulation  UPMan ________________________________ From: Lance Star
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2010
        http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulation
         UPMan




        ________________________________
        From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
        To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
        Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

         
        Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto
        mode for demodulation.

        What are the deviation settings in this radio for:

        NFM

        FM

        FMB

        I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section yet.

        Thanks UPMan!

        ________________________________
        From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
        To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
        Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

        Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the service is


        transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM. But, on a
        Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in the audio
        being much louder.
        UPMan

        ________________________________
        From: milcom_chaser <milcom_chaser@...>
        To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
        Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

        I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close call in
        DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency, it's audio


        level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio within a
        group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone else has
        noticed this as well?

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lance Star
        Very helpful. Is there a way to directly enter a DCS code for a frequency once I m in that menu, rather than having to scroll through all of the codes?
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 1, 2010
          Very helpful.


          Is there a way to directly enter a DCS code for a frequency once I'm in that
          menu, rather than having to scroll through all of the codes?





          ________________________________
          From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
          To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 12:09:56 PM
          Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...


          http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulation
          UPMan

          ________________________________
          From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
          To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
          Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...


          Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto
          mode for demodulation.

          What are the deviation settings in this radio for:

          NFM

          FM

          FMB

          I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section yet.

          Thanks UPMan!

          ________________________________
          From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
          To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
          Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

          Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the service is


          transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM. But, on a
          Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in the audio
          being much louder.
          UPMan

          ________________________________
          From: milcom_chaser <milcom_chaser@...>
          To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
          Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

          I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close call in
          DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency, it's audio


          level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio within a
          group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone else has
          noticed this as well?

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Uniden UPMan
          No, there isn t.  UPMan ________________________________ From: Lance Star To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 1, 2010
            No, there isn't.
             UPMan




            ________________________________
            From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 3:15:31 PM
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

             
            Very helpful.

            Is there a way to directly enter a DCS code for a frequency once I'm in that
            menu, rather than having to scroll through all of the codes?

            ________________________________
            From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 12:09:56 PM
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

            http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulation
            UPMan

            ________________________________
            From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

            Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto
            mode for demodulation.

            What are the deviation settings in this radio for:

            NFM

            FM

            FMB

            I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section yet.

            Thanks UPMan!

            ________________________________
            From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

            Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the service is


            transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM. But, on a
            Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in the audio
            being much louder.
            UPMan

            ________________________________
            From: milcom_chaser <milcom_chaser@...>
            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
            Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

            I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close call in
            DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency, it's audio


            level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio within a
            group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone else has
            noticed this as well?

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lance Star
            That would be a cool feature to add in the next software rev. So, when u hit the keys it takes u to the DCS number you want within the list... Thanks UPMan.
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 1, 2010
              That would be a cool feature to add in the next software rev. So, when u hit the keys it takes u to the DCS number you want within the list...

              Thanks UPMan. This radio continues to prove itself awesome...


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
              To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
              Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...

              >
              > No, there isn't.
              >  UPMan
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
              > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 3:15:31 PM
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
              >
              >  
              > Very helpful.
              >
              > Is there a way to directly enter a DCS code for a frequency once I'm in that
              > menu, rather than having to scroll through all of the codes?
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
              > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 12:09:56 PM
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
              >
              > http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulation
              > UPMan
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
              > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
              >
              > Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto
              > mode for demodulation.
              >
              > What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
              >
              > NFM
              >
              > FM
              >
              > FMB
              >
              > I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section yet.
              >
              > Thanks UPMan!
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
              > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
              >
              > Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the service is
              >
              > transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM. But, on a
              > Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in the audio
              > being much louder.
              > UPMan
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: milcom_chaser <milcom_chaser@...>
              > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
              > Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
              >
              > I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close call in
              > DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency, it's audio
              >
              > level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio within a
              > group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone else has
              > noticed this as well?
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
              > Messages in this topic (5)
              >
              > Recent Activity: * New Members 7
              > Visit Your Group
              > MARKETPLACE
              > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the
              > Yahoo! Toolbar now.
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new
              > interests.
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.
              >
              > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
            • dataman60435
              If you set the menu for the freqy in question to PL/DCS SEARCH when the proper setting pops up monitoring the freqy just press E and it goes right in.....
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 2, 2010
                If you set the menu for the freqy in question to PL/DCS "SEARCH" when the proper setting pops up monitoring the freqy just press "E" and it goes right in.....

                --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...> wrote:
                >
                > That would be a cool feature to add in the next software rev. So, when u hit the keys it takes u to the DCS number you want within the list...
                >
                > Thanks UPMan. This radio continues to prove itself awesome...
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
                > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
                > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                >
                > >
                > > No, there isn't.
                > >  UPMan
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
                > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 3:15:31 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                > >
                > >  
                > > Very helpful.
                > >
                > > Is there a way to directly enter a DCS code for a frequency once I'm in that
                > > menu, rather than having to scroll through all of the codes?
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
                > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 12:09:56 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                > >
                > > http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulation
                > > UPMan
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
                > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                > >
                > > Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto
                > > mode for demodulation.
                > >
                > > What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                > >
                > > NFM
                > >
                > > FM
                > >
                > > FMB
                > >
                > > I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section yet.
                > >
                > > Thanks UPMan!
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
                > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                > >
                > > Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the service is
                > >
                > > transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM. But, on a
                > > Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in the audio
                > > being much louder.
                > > UPMan
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: milcom_chaser <milcom_chaser@...>
                > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                > > Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                > >
                > > I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close call in
                > > DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency, it's audio
                > >
                > > level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio within a
                > > group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone else has
                > > noticed this as well?
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
                > > Messages in this topic (5)
                > >
                > > Recent Activity: * New Members 7
                > > Visit Your Group
                > > MARKETPLACE
                > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the
                > > Yahoo! Toolbar now.
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > >
                > > Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new
                > > interests.
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > >
                > > Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.
                > >
                > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • w2gld
                UPMan, Please clarify some information; the link you provided states the following: NFMThe scanner treats the frequency as Narrowband FM modulation (about 7.5
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 3, 2010
                  UPMan,
                  Please clarify some information; the link you provided states the
                  following:

                  NFMThe scanner treats the frequency as Narrowband FM modulation (about
                  7.5 kHz deviation; also referred to as SNFM in some references).FMThe
                  scanner treats the frequency as FM modulation (about 15 kHz deviation;
                  also referred to as NFM in some references).WFMThe scanner treats the
                  frequency as Wideband FM modulation (over 100 kHz deviation; used for
                  pre-digital conversion TV broadcast reception and similar).FMBThe
                  scanner treats the frequency as FM broadcast modulation (about 75 kHz
                  deviation; used for FM radio station reception and similar).
                  From a communications perspective, should the following be true?
                  "FM" should be 5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of 15,
                  20, or 25 kHz.
                  "NFM" should be 2.5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of
                  6.25, 7.5, or 12.5 kHz.
                  This setting for most is very ambiguous and has little documentation
                  from Uniden. For whatever reason, Uniden has taken the standpoint that
                  almost all VHF, UHF, and SHF traffic should be "NFM" when it follows the
                  "AUTO" setting. Can you please explain why this is; other than future
                  FCC licenses will require this setting?
                  Would it be safe to assume that if a Project-25 (Conventional or
                  Trunking System) uses 12.5 kHz channel spacing then the setting should
                  ALWAYS be "NFM"
                  And if this is true, should Project-16 (Conventional or Trunking
                  Systems) that use 25.0 kHz channel spacing, should the setting ALWAYS be
                  "FM"
                  What I have found in researching the individual FCC licenses for many
                  agencies is that the emissions designator indicates the appropriate
                  bandwidth of a frequency and does not always follow the Uniden "AUTO"
                  setting.
                  For example, the "New Jersey State Police" use a Motorola Type II
                  SmartZone trunked radio system within the 800 MHz band. Their licenses
                  indicate 20K emissions designator, thus a setting of "FM" would be
                  appropriate in my opinion to allow for the extra bandwidth. The Uniden
                  scanners always default this to NFM under the "AUTO" setting and this
                  usually makes the audio horrible to listen to. This case is exactly the
                  same for the City of Philadelphia's system; which is "full digital -
                  APCO-25 audio" With the default "NFM" setting, this system is almost
                  useless to monitor; however, if one changes the setting to "FM" the
                  system track fine with little issues.
                  Another example is the "Burlington County, NJ", which is also a Motorola
                  Type II SmartZone system. Their bandplan indicates 12.5 kHz channel
                  spacing, thus the audio should be "NFM" correct?
                  By the explanation in the link you've provided, most communication would
                  in fact remain "FM" and not the default "AUTO" setting or "NFM".
                  If I am understanding the text correctly, ONLY the "SUPER-Narrowband"
                  frequencies such as VHF 7.5 kHz and UHF 6.25 kHz should use the setting
                  of "NFM", is this a true statement from what Uniden engineers have
                  designed???
                  To summarize, when should one use the "NFM" setting vs. the "FM" setting
                  for general public safety use? Is the "NFM" setting on for the
                  "SUPER-Narrowband" frequencies, such as those licensed for 7.5 kHz on
                  VHF and 6.25 kHz on UHF ONLY?
                  If you could please elaborate on this topic, I am sure many of us would
                  appreciate it.
                  Thank you for all your support here on the groups and RadioReference!
                  Regards,
                  Jerry - W2GLD


                  --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulat\
                  ion
                  > Â UPMan
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Lance Star milcom_chaser@...
                  > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                  >
                  > Â
                  > Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when
                  in Auto
                  > mode for demodulation.
                  >
                  > What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                  >
                  > NFM
                  >
                  > FM
                  >
                  > FMB
                  >
                  > I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section
                  yet.
                  >
                  > Thanks UPMan!
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Uniden UPMan uniden.upman@...
                  > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                  >
                  > Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the
                  service is
                  >
                  >
                  > transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM.
                  But, on a
                  > Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in
                  the audio
                  > being much louder.
                  > UPMan
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: milcom_chaser milcom_chaser@...
                  > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                  > Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                  >
                  > I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close
                  call in
                  > DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency,
                  it's audio
                  >
                  >
                  > level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio
                  within a
                  > group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone
                  else has
                  > noticed this as well?
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • MCH
                  Uniden mode / Common designation / Deviation / Bandwidth NFM SNFM 2.5 kHz 11.0 kHz FM NBFM 5.0 kHz 16.0 kHz WFM Wide FM 25.0 kHz 100.0 kHz
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
                    Uniden mode / Common designation / Deviation / Bandwidth
                    NFM SNFM 2.5 kHz 11.0 kHz
                    FM NBFM 5.0 kHz 16.0 kHz
                    WFM Wide FM 25.0 kHz 100.0 kHz (or 90.0)
                    FMB Wide FM 75.0 kHz 200.0 kHz (or 190.0)

                    Channel spacing is a different issue, and while there are minimum limits
                    for the wider modes, any channel spacing can be used with any mode. For
                    example, SNFM can be used with 25 kHz channel spacing, or 20, or 15, or
                    12.5, or even 7.5 or 6.25 even though that is technically unsound.

                    But, if you have something operating on 6.25 or 7.5 kHz channels, it is
                    most likely SNFM.

                    WFM is for TV, and FMB is for the "FM" radio band (88-108 MHz).

                    Paul, if the quoted text is accurate, please update the specs.

                    Joe M.

                    w2gld wrote:
                    > UPMan,
                    > Please clarify some information; the link you provided states the
                    > following:
                    >
                    > NFMThe scanner treats the frequency as Narrowband FM modulation (about
                    > 7.5 kHz deviation; also referred to as SNFM in some references).FMThe
                    > scanner treats the frequency as FM modulation (about 15 kHz deviation;
                    > also referred to as NFM in some references).WFMThe scanner treats the
                    > frequency as Wideband FM modulation (over 100 kHz deviation; used for
                    > pre-digital conversion TV broadcast reception and similar).FMBThe
                    > scanner treats the frequency as FM broadcast modulation (about 75 kHz
                    > deviation; used for FM radio station reception and similar).
                    >>From a communications perspective, should the following be true?
                    > "FM" should be 5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of 15,
                    > 20, or 25 kHz.
                    > "NFM" should be 2.5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of
                    > 6.25, 7.5, or 12.5 kHz.
                    > This setting for most is very ambiguous and has little documentation
                    > from Uniden. For whatever reason, Uniden has taken the standpoint that
                    > almost all VHF, UHF, and SHF traffic should be "NFM" when it follows the
                    > "AUTO" setting. Can you please explain why this is; other than future
                    > FCC licenses will require this setting?
                    > Would it be safe to assume that if a Project-25 (Conventional or
                    > Trunking System) uses 12.5 kHz channel spacing then the setting should
                    > ALWAYS be "NFM"
                    > And if this is true, should Project-16 (Conventional or Trunking
                    > Systems) that use 25.0 kHz channel spacing, should the setting ALWAYS be
                    > "FM"
                    > What I have found in researching the individual FCC licenses for many
                    > agencies is that the emissions designator indicates the appropriate
                    > bandwidth of a frequency and does not always follow the Uniden "AUTO"
                    > setting.
                    > For example, the "New Jersey State Police" use a Motorola Type II
                    > SmartZone trunked radio system within the 800 MHz band. Their licenses
                    > indicate 20K emissions designator, thus a setting of "FM" would be
                    > appropriate in my opinion to allow for the extra bandwidth. The Uniden
                    > scanners always default this to NFM under the "AUTO" setting and this
                    > usually makes the audio horrible to listen to. This case is exactly the
                    > same for the City of Philadelphia's system; which is "full digital -
                    > APCO-25 audio" With the default "NFM" setting, this system is almost
                    > useless to monitor; however, if one changes the setting to "FM" the
                    > system track fine with little issues.
                    > Another example is the "Burlington County, NJ", which is also a Motorola
                    > Type II SmartZone system. Their bandplan indicates 12.5 kHz channel
                    > spacing, thus the audio should be "NFM" correct?
                    > By the explanation in the link you've provided, most communication would
                    > in fact remain "FM" and not the default "AUTO" setting or "NFM".
                    > If I am understanding the text correctly, ONLY the "SUPER-Narrowband"
                    > frequencies such as VHF 7.5 kHz and UHF 6.25 kHz should use the setting
                    > of "NFM", is this a true statement from what Uniden engineers have
                    > designed???
                    > To summarize, when should one use the "NFM" setting vs. the "FM" setting
                    > for general public safety use? Is the "NFM" setting on for the
                    > "SUPER-Narrowband" frequencies, such as those licensed for 7.5 kHz on
                    > VHF and 6.25 kHz on UHF ONLY?
                    > If you could please elaborate on this topic, I am sure many of us would
                    > appreciate it.
                    > Thank you for all your support here on the groups and RadioReference!
                    > Regards,
                    > Jerry - W2GLD
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    > http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulat\
                    > ion
                    >> Â UPMan
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ________________________________
                    >> From: Lance Star milcom_chaser@...
                    >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                    >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                    >>
                    >> Â
                    >> Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when
                    > in Auto
                    >> mode for demodulation.
                    >>
                    >> What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                    >>
                    >> NFM
                    >>
                    >> FM
                    >>
                    >> FMB
                    >>
                    >> I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section
                    > yet.
                    >> Thanks UPMan!
                    >>
                    >> ________________________________
                    >> From: Uniden UPMan uniden.upman@...
                    >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                    >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                    >>
                    >> Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the
                    > service is
                    >>
                    >> transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM.
                    > But, on a
                    >> Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in
                    > the audio
                    >> being much louder.
                    >> UPMan
                    >>
                    >> ________________________________
                    >> From: milcom_chaser milcom_chaser@...
                    >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                    >> Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                    >>
                    >> I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close
                    > call in
                    >> DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency,
                    > it's audio
                    >>
                    >> level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio
                    > within a
                    >> group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone
                    > else has
                    >> noticed this as well?
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Jerry Dubzak - W2GLD
                    Joe, From what I see here then, the following should be true: 508.9875 with an emission designator of 11K should be NFM 508.6500 with an emission designator of
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
                      Joe,

                      From what I see here then, the following should be true:

                      508.9875 with an emission designator of 11K should be NFM

                      508.6500 with an emission designator of 20K should be FM

                      Is this a true statement???


                      On Oct 04, 2010, at 12:03 PM, MCH wrote:

                      > Uniden mode / Common designation / Deviation / Bandwidth
                      > NFM SNFM 2.5 kHz 11.0 kHz
                      > FM NBFM 5.0 kHz 16.0 kHz
                      > WFM Wide FM 25.0 kHz 100.0 kHz (or 90.0)
                      > FMB Wide FM 75.0 kHz 200.0 kHz (or 190.0)
                      >
                      > Channel spacing is a different issue, and while there are minimum limits
                      > for the wider modes, any channel spacing can be used with any mode. For
                      > example, SNFM can be used with 25 kHz channel spacing, or 20, or 15, or
                      > 12.5, or even 7.5 or 6.25 even though that is technically unsound.
                      >
                      > But, if you have something operating on 6.25 or 7.5 kHz channels, it is
                      > most likely SNFM.
                      >
                      > WFM is for TV, and FMB is for the "FM" radio band (88-108 MHz).
                      >
                      > Paul, if the quoted text is accurate, please update the specs.
                      >
                      > Joe M.
                      >
                      > w2gld wrote:
                      > > UPMan,
                      > > Please clarify some information; the link you provided states the
                      > > following:
                      > >
                      > > NFMThe scanner treats the frequency as Narrowband FM modulation (about
                      > > 7.5 kHz deviation; also referred to as SNFM in some references).FMThe
                      > > scanner treats the frequency as FM modulation (about 15 kHz deviation;
                      > > also referred to as NFM in some references).WFMThe scanner treats the
                      > > frequency as Wideband FM modulation (over 100 kHz deviation; used for
                      > > pre-digital conversion TV broadcast reception and similar).FMBThe
                      > > scanner treats the frequency as FM broadcast modulation (about 75 kHz
                      > > deviation; used for FM radio station reception and similar).
                      > >>From a communications perspective, should the following be true?
                      > > "FM" should be 5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of 15,
                      > > 20, or 25 kHz.
                      > > "NFM" should be 2.5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of
                      > > 6.25, 7.5, or 12.5 kHz.
                      > > This setting for most is very ambiguous and has little documentation
                      > > from Uniden. For whatever reason, Uniden has taken the standpoint that
                      > > almost all VHF, UHF, and SHF traffic should be "NFM" when it follows the
                      > > "AUTO" setting. Can you please explain why this is; other than future
                      > > FCC licenses will require this setting?
                      > > Would it be safe to assume that if a Project-25 (Conventional or
                      > > Trunking System) uses 12.5 kHz channel spacing then the setting should
                      > > ALWAYS be "NFM"
                      > > And if this is true, should Project-16 (Conventional or Trunking
                      > > Systems) that use 25.0 kHz channel spacing, should the setting ALWAYS be
                      > > "FM"
                      > > What I have found in researching the individual FCC licenses for many
                      > > agencies is that the emissions designator indicates the appropriate
                      > > bandwidth of a frequency and does not always follow the Uniden "AUTO"
                      > > setting.
                      > > For example, the "New Jersey State Police" use a Motorola Type II
                      > > SmartZone trunked radio system within the 800 MHz band. Their licenses
                      > > indicate 20K emissions designator, thus a setting of "FM" would be
                      > > appropriate in my opinion to allow for the extra bandwidth. The Uniden
                      > > scanners always default this to NFM under the "AUTO" setting and this
                      > > usually makes the audio horrible to listen to. This case is exactly the
                      > > same for the City of Philadelphia's system; which is "full digital -
                      > > APCO-25 audio" With the default "NFM" setting, this system is almost
                      > > useless to monitor; however, if one changes the setting to "FM" the
                      > > system track fine with little issues.
                      > > Another example is the "Burlington County, NJ", which is also a Motorola
                      > > Type II SmartZone system. Their bandplan indicates 12.5 kHz channel
                      > > spacing, thus the audio should be "NFM" correct?
                      > > By the explanation in the link you've provided, most communication would
                      > > in fact remain "FM" and not the default "AUTO" setting or "NFM".
                      > > If I am understanding the text correctly, ONLY the "SUPER-Narrowband"
                      > > frequencies such as VHF 7.5 kHz and UHF 6.25 kHz should use the setting
                      > > of "NFM", is this a true statement from what Uniden engineers have
                      > > designed???
                      > > To summarize, when should one use the "NFM" setting vs. the "FM" setting
                      > > for general public safety use? Is the "NFM" setting on for the
                      > > "SUPER-Narrowband" frequencies, such as those licensed for 7.5 kHz on
                      > > VHF and 6.25 kHz on UHF ONLY?
                      > > If you could please elaborate on this topic, I am sure many of us would
                      > > appreciate it.
                      > > Thank you for all your support here on the groups and RadioReference!
                      > > Regards,
                      > > Jerry - W2GLD
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > > http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulat\
                      > > ion
                      > >> � UPMan
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> ________________________________
                      > >> From: Lance Star milcom_chaser@...
                      > >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                      > >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                      > >>
                      > >> �
                      > >> Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when
                      > > in Auto
                      > >> mode for demodulation.
                      > >>
                      > >> What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                      > >>
                      > >> NFM
                      > >>
                      > >> FM
                      > >>
                      > >> FMB
                      > >>
                      > >> I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section
                      > > yet.
                      > >> Thanks UPMan!
                      > >>
                      > >> ________________________________
                      > >> From: Uniden UPMan uniden.upman@...
                      > >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                      > >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                      > >>
                      > >> Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the
                      > > service is
                      > >>
                      > >> transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM.
                      > > But, on a
                      > >> Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in
                      > > the audio
                      > >> being much louder.
                      > >> UPMan
                      > >>
                      > >> ________________________________
                      > >> From: milcom_chaser milcom_chaser@...
                      > >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                      > >> Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                      > >>
                      > >> I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close
                      > > call in
                      > >> DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency,
                      > > it's audio
                      > >>
                      > >> level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio
                      > > within a
                      > >> group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone
                      > > else has
                      > >> noticed this as well?
                      > >>
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • MCH
                      The first one definitely should be NFM. The second one is likely FM, but it could legally be used for or converted to a NFM system. The emission designations
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
                        The first one definitely should be NFM.

                        The second one is likely FM, but it could legally be used for or
                        converted to a NFM system.

                        The emission designations are maximum allowed bandwidth, not necessarily
                        exact figures. So, a licensee for a 20K0 bandwidth channel (20.0 kHz to
                        put it in non-FCC-eeze) could be used for an 11K0 signal.

                        The rest of the emission designator will put other restrictions on the
                        licensee, too, but they don't apply to what we are talking about.

                        On second look, the .6500 channel is a splinter channel, and I didn't
                        think there were any licenses that wide (20K0) issued on T-band splinter
                        channels. Or were your examples hypothetical?

                        Joe M.

                        Jerry Dubzak - W2GLD wrote:
                        > Joe,
                        >
                        >>From what I see here then, the following should be true:
                        >
                        > 508.9875 with an emission designator of 11K should be NFM
                        >
                        > 508.6500 with an emission designator of 20K should be FM
                        >
                        > Is this a true statement???
                        >
                        >
                        > On Oct 04, 2010, at 12:03 PM, MCH wrote:
                        >
                        >> Uniden mode / Common designation / Deviation / Bandwidth
                        >> NFM SNFM 2.5 kHz 11.0 kHz
                        >> FM NBFM 5.0 kHz 16.0 kHz
                        >> WFM Wide FM 25.0 kHz 100.0 kHz (or 90.0)
                        >> FMB Wide FM 75.0 kHz 200.0 kHz (or 190.0)
                        >>
                        >> Channel spacing is a different issue, and while there are minimum limits
                        >> for the wider modes, any channel spacing can be used with any mode. For
                        >> example, SNFM can be used with 25 kHz channel spacing, or 20, or 15, or
                        >> 12.5, or even 7.5 or 6.25 even though that is technically unsound.
                        >>
                        >> But, if you have something operating on 6.25 or 7.5 kHz channels, it is
                        >> most likely SNFM.
                        >>
                        >> WFM is for TV, and FMB is for the "FM" radio band (88-108 MHz).
                        >>
                        >> Paul, if the quoted text is accurate, please update the specs.
                        >>
                        >> Joe M.
                        >>
                        >> w2gld wrote:
                        >>> UPMan,
                        >>> Please clarify some information; the link you provided states the
                        >>> following:
                        >>>
                        >>> NFMThe scanner treats the frequency as Narrowband FM modulation (about
                        >>> 7.5 kHz deviation; also referred to as SNFM in some references).FMThe
                        >>> scanner treats the frequency as FM modulation (about 15 kHz deviation;
                        >>> also referred to as NFM in some references).WFMThe scanner treats the
                        >>> frequency as Wideband FM modulation (over 100 kHz deviation; used for
                        >>> pre-digital conversion TV broadcast reception and similar).FMBThe
                        >>> scanner treats the frequency as FM broadcast modulation (about 75 kHz
                        >>> deviation; used for FM radio station reception and similar).
                        >>> >From a communications perspective, should the following be true?
                        >>> "FM" should be 5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of 15,
                        >>> 20, or 25 kHz.
                        >>> "NFM" should be 2.5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of
                        >>> 6.25, 7.5, or 12.5 kHz.
                        >>> This setting for most is very ambiguous and has little documentation
                        >>> from Uniden. For whatever reason, Uniden has taken the standpoint that
                        >>> almost all VHF, UHF, and SHF traffic should be "NFM" when it follows the
                        >>> "AUTO" setting. Can you please explain why this is; other than future
                        >>> FCC licenses will require this setting?
                        >>> Would it be safe to assume that if a Project-25 (Conventional or
                        >>> Trunking System) uses 12.5 kHz channel spacing then the setting should
                        >>> ALWAYS be "NFM"
                        >>> And if this is true, should Project-16 (Conventional or Trunking
                        >>> Systems) that use 25.0 kHz channel spacing, should the setting ALWAYS be
                        >>> "FM"
                        >>> What I have found in researching the individual FCC licenses for many
                        >>> agencies is that the emissions designator indicates the appropriate
                        >>> bandwidth of a frequency and does not always follow the Uniden "AUTO"
                        >>> setting.
                        >>> For example, the "New Jersey State Police" use a Motorola Type II
                        >>> SmartZone trunked radio system within the 800 MHz band. Their licenses
                        >>> indicate 20K emissions designator, thus a setting of "FM" would be
                        >>> appropriate in my opinion to allow for the extra bandwidth. The Uniden
                        >>> scanners always default this to NFM under the "AUTO" setting and this
                        >>> usually makes the audio horrible to listen to. This case is exactly the
                        >>> same for the City of Philadelphia's system; which is "full digital -
                        >>> APCO-25 audio" With the default "NFM" setting, this system is almost
                        >>> useless to monitor; however, if one changes the setting to "FM" the
                        >>> system track fine with little issues.
                        >>> Another example is the "Burlington County, NJ", which is also a Motorola
                        >>> Type II SmartZone system. Their bandplan indicates 12.5 kHz channel
                        >>> spacing, thus the audio should be "NFM" correct?
                        >>> By the explanation in the link you've provided, most communication would
                        >>> in fact remain "FM" and not the default "AUTO" setting or "NFM".
                        >>> If I am understanding the text correctly, ONLY the "SUPER-Narrowband"
                        >>> frequencies such as VHF 7.5 kHz and UHF 6.25 kHz should use the setting
                        >>> of "NFM", is this a true statement from what Uniden engineers have
                        >>> designed???
                        >>> To summarize, when should one use the "NFM" setting vs. the "FM" setting
                        >>> for general public safety use? Is the "NFM" setting on for the
                        >>> "SUPER-Narrowband" frequencies, such as those licensed for 7.5 kHz on
                        >>> VHF and 6.25 kHz on UHF ONLY?
                        >>> If you could please elaborate on this topic, I am sure many of us would
                        >>> appreciate it.
                        >>> Thank you for all your support here on the groups and RadioReference!
                        >>> Regards,
                        >>> Jerry - W2GLD
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...> wrote:
                        >>> http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulat\
                        >>> ion
                        >>>> Â UPMan
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> ________________________________
                        >>>> From: Lance Star milcom_chaser@...
                        >>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                        >>>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Â
                        >>>> Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when
                        >>> in Auto
                        >>>> mode for demodulation.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                        >>>>
                        >>>> NFM
                        >>>>
                        >>>> FM
                        >>>>
                        >>>> FMB
                        >>>>
                        >>>> I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section
                        >>> yet.
                        >>>> Thanks UPMan!
                        >>>>
                        >>>> ________________________________
                        >>>> From: Uniden UPMan uniden.upman@...
                        >>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                        >>>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the
                        >>> service is
                        >>>> transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM.
                        >>> But, on a
                        >>>> Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in
                        >>> the audio
                        >>>> being much louder.
                        >>>> UPMan
                        >>>>
                        >>>> ________________________________
                        >>>> From: milcom_chaser milcom_chaser@...
                        >>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                        >>>> Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                        >>>>
                        >>>> I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close
                        >>> call in
                        >>>> DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency,
                        >>> it's audio
                        >>>> level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio
                        >>> within a
                        >>>> group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone
                        >>> else has
                        >>>> noticed this as well?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>
                        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> ------------------------------------
                        >>>
                        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Lance Star
                        Thats cool. My question was merely from a manual entry of the PL/DCS perspective... ... From: dataman60435 To:
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
                          Thats cool.

                          My question was merely from a manual entry of the PL/DCS perspective...







                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "dataman60435" <dataman60435@...>
                          To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 17:38:51 -0000
                          Subject: [BCD396XT] Re: Audio level differences...

                          >
                          > If you set the menu for the freqy in question to PL/DCS "SEARCH" when the proper setting pops up monitoring the freqy just press "E" and it goes right in.....
                          >
                          > --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > That would be a cool feature to add in the next software rev. So, when u hit the keys it takes u to the DCS number you want within the list...
                          > >
                          > > Thanks UPMan. This radio continues to prove itself awesome...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
                          > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
                          > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > No, there isn't.
                          > > >  UPMan
                          > > >
                          > > > ________________________________
                          > > > From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
                          > > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 3:15:31 PM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                          > > >
                          > > >  
                          > > > Very helpful.
                          > > >
                          > > > Is there a way to directly enter a DCS code for a frequency once I'm in that
                          > > > menu, rather than having to scroll through all of the codes?
                          > > >
                          > > > ________________________________
                          > > > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
                          > > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 12:09:56 PM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                          > > >
                          > > > http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulation
                          > > > UPMan
                          > > >
                          > > > ________________________________
                          > > > From: Lance Star <milcom_chaser@...>
                          > > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                          > > >
                          > > > Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when in Auto
                          > > > mode for demodulation.
                          > > >
                          > > > What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                          > > >
                          > > > NFM
                          > > >
                          > > > FM
                          > > >
                          > > > FMB
                          > > >
                          > > > I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section yet.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks UPMan!
                          > > >
                          > > > ________________________________
                          > > > From: Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...>
                          > > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                          > > >
                          > > > Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the service is
                          > > >
                          > > > transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM. But, on a
                          > > > Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in the audio
                          > > > being much louder.
                          > > > UPMan
                          > > >
                          > > > ________________________________
                          > > > From: milcom_chaser <milcom_chaser@...>
                          > > > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                          > > > Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                          > > >
                          > > > I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close call in
                          > > > DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency, it's audio
                          > > >
                          > > > level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio within a
                          > > > group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone else has
                          > > > noticed this as well?
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
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                        • Lance Star
                          Perhaps all the VHF HI band PS systems in my radio will need to be globally changed to FM mode. Since I don t have any 6.25khz allocated freqs. In fact I
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 4, 2010
                            Perhaps all the VHF HI band PS systems in my radio will need to be globally changed to FM mode. Since I don't have any 6.25khz allocated freqs. In fact I have yet to come across any...

                            For everything else, there's programming software. Would be interested to hear Paul's response to this topic's last thread. Perhaps the default band plan setting for modulation should be FM for this radio...





                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: MCH <mch@...>
                            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 21:43:47 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: Audio level differences...

                            >
                            > The first one definitely should be NFM.
                            >
                            > The second one is likely FM, but it could legally be used for or
                            > converted to a NFM system.
                            >
                            > The emission designations are maximum allowed bandwidth, not necessarily
                            > exact figures. So, a licensee for a 20K0 bandwidth channel (20.0 kHz to
                            > put it in non-FCC-eeze) could be used for an 11K0 signal.
                            >
                            > The rest of the emission designator will put other restrictions on the
                            > licensee, too, but they don't apply to what we are talking about.
                            >
                            > On second look, the .6500 channel is a splinter channel, and I didn't
                            > think there were any licenses that wide (20K0) issued on T-band splinter
                            > channels. Or were your examples hypothetical?
                            >
                            > Joe M.
                            >
                            > Jerry Dubzak - W2GLD wrote:
                            > > Joe,
                            > >
                            > >>From what I see here then, the following should be true:
                            > >
                            > > 508.9875 with an emission designator of 11K should be NFM
                            > >
                            > > 508.6500 with an emission designator of 20K should be FM
                            > >
                            > > Is this a true statement???
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Oct 04, 2010, at 12:03 PM, MCH wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> Uniden mode / Common designation / Deviation / Bandwidth
                            > >> NFM SNFM 2.5 kHz 11.0 kHz
                            > >> FM NBFM 5.0 kHz 16.0 kHz
                            > >> WFM Wide FM 25.0 kHz 100.0 kHz (or 90.0)
                            > >> FMB Wide FM 75.0 kHz 200.0 kHz (or 190.0)
                            > >>
                            > >> Channel spacing is a different issue, and while there are minimum limits
                            > >> for the wider modes, any channel spacing can be used with any mode. For
                            > >> example, SNFM can be used with 25 kHz channel spacing, or 20, or 15, or
                            > >> 12.5, or even 7.5 or 6.25 even though that is technically unsound.
                            > >>
                            > >> But, if you have something operating on 6.25 or 7.5 kHz channels, it is
                            > >> most likely SNFM.
                            > >>
                            > >> WFM is for TV, and FMB is for the "FM" radio band (88-108 MHz).
                            > >>
                            > >> Paul, if the quoted text is accurate, please update the specs.
                            > >>
                            > >> Joe M.
                            > >>
                            > >> w2gld wrote:
                            > >>> UPMan,
                            > >>> Please clarify some information; the link you provided states the
                            > >>> following:
                            > >>>
                            > >>> NFMThe scanner treats the frequency as Narrowband FM modulation (about
                            > >>> 7.5 kHz deviation; also referred to as SNFM in some references).FMThe
                            > >>> scanner treats the frequency as FM modulation (about 15 kHz deviation;
                            > >>> also referred to as NFM in some references).WFMThe scanner treats the
                            > >>> frequency as Wideband FM modulation (over 100 kHz deviation; used for
                            > >>> pre-digital conversion TV broadcast reception and similar).FMBThe
                            > >>> scanner treats the frequency as FM broadcast modulation (about 75 kHz
                            > >>> deviation; used for FM radio station reception and similar).
                            > >>> >From a communications perspective, should the following be true?
                            > >>> "FM" should be 5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of 15,
                            > >>> 20, or 25 kHz.
                            > >>> "NFM" should be 2.5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of
                            > >>> 6.25, 7.5, or 12.5 kHz.
                            > >>> This setting for most is very ambiguous and has little documentation
                            > >>> from Uniden. For whatever reason, Uniden has taken the standpoint that
                            > >>> almost all VHF, UHF, and SHF traffic should be "NFM" when it follows the
                            > >>> "AUTO" setting. Can you please explain why this is; other than future
                            > >>> FCC licenses will require this setting?
                            > >>> Would it be safe to assume that if a Project-25 (Conventional or
                            > >>> Trunking System) uses 12.5 kHz channel spacing then the setting should
                            > >>> ALWAYS be "NFM"
                            > >>> And if this is true, should Project-16 (Conventional or Trunking
                            > >>> Systems) that use 25.0 kHz channel spacing, should the setting ALWAYS be
                            > >>> "FM"
                            > >>> What I have found in researching the individual FCC licenses for many
                            > >>> agencies is that the emissions designator indicates the appropriate
                            > >>> bandwidth of a frequency and does not always follow the Uniden "AUTO"
                            > >>> setting.
                            > >>> For example, the "New Jersey State Police" use a Motorola Type II
                            > >>> SmartZone trunked radio system within the 800 MHz band. Their licenses
                            > >>> indicate 20K emissions designator, thus a setting of "FM" would be
                            > >>> appropriate in my opinion to allow for the extra bandwidth. The Uniden
                            > >>> scanners always default this to NFM under the "AUTO" setting and this
                            > >>> usually makes the audio horrible to listen to. This case is exactly the
                            > >>> same for the City of Philadelphia's system; which is "full digital -
                            > >>> APCO-25 audio" With the default "NFM" setting, this system is almost
                            > >>> useless to monitor; however, if one changes the setting to "FM" the
                            > >>> system track fine with little issues.
                            > >>> Another example is the "Burlington County, NJ", which is also a Motorola
                            > >>> Type II SmartZone system. Their bandplan indicates 12.5 kHz channel
                            > >>> spacing, thus the audio should be "NFM" correct?
                            > >>> By the explanation in the link you've provided, most communication would
                            > >>> in fact remain "FM" and not the default "AUTO" setting or "NFM".
                            > >>> If I am understanding the text correctly, ONLY the "SUPER-Narrowband"
                            > >>> frequencies such as VHF 7.5 kHz and UHF 6.25 kHz should use the setting
                            > >>> of "NFM", is this a true statement from what Uniden engineers have
                            > >>> designed???
                            > >>> To summarize, when should one use the "NFM" setting vs. the "FM" setting
                            > >>> for general public safety use? Is the "NFM" setting on for the
                            > >>> "SUPER-Narrowband" frequencies, such as those licensed for 7.5 kHz on
                            > >>> VHF and 6.25 kHz on UHF ONLY?
                            > >>> If you could please elaborate on this topic, I am sure many of us would
                            > >>> appreciate it.
                            > >>> Thank you for all your support here on the groups and RadioReference!
                            > >>> Regards,
                            > >>> Jerry - W2GLD
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...> wrote:
                            > >>> http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulat\
                            > >>> ion
                            > >>>> Â UPMan
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> ________________________________
                            > >>>> From: Lance Star milcom_chaser@...
                            > >>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                            > >>>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> Â
                            > >>>> Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when
                            > >>> in Auto
                            > >>>> mode for demodulation.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> NFM
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> FM
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> FMB
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section
                            > >>> yet.
                            > >>>> Thanks UPMan!
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> ________________________________
                            > >>>> From: Uniden UPMan uniden.upman@...
                            > >>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                            > >>>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the
                            > >>> service is
                            > >>>> transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM.
                            > >>> But, on a
                            > >>>> Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in
                            > >>> the audio
                            > >>>> being much louder.
                            > >>>> UPMan
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> ________________________________
                            > >>>> From: milcom_chaser milcom_chaser@...
                            > >>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                            > >>>> Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close
                            > >>> call in
                            > >>>> DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency,
                            > >>> it's audio
                            > >>>> level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio
                            > >>> within a
                            > >>>> group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone
                            > >>> else has
                            > >>>> noticed this as well?
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> ------------------------------------
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                          • MCH
                            Eventually, most channels will be NFM. In fact, it s required of most services (but not all) by 2013 and many are changing over now. You likely have several
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 5, 2010
                              Eventually, most channels will be NFM. In fact, it's required of most
                              services (but not all) by 2013 and many are changing over now.

                              You likely have several NFM channels in your area already.

                              I have around 10% NFMs in my area. Well, maybe that many.

                              Even if they are on traditional frequencies, they may be using NFM
                              rather than FM, or may be soon.

                              Joe M.

                              Lance Star wrote:
                              > Perhaps all the VHF HI band PS systems in my radio will need to be globally changed to FM mode. Since I don't have any 6.25khz allocated freqs. In fact I have yet to come across any...
                              >
                              > For everything else, there's programming software. Would be interested to hear Paul's response to this topic's last thread. Perhaps the default band plan setting for modulation should be FM for this radio...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: MCH <mch@...>
                              > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 21:43:47 -0400
                              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: Audio level differences...
                              >
                              >>
                              >> The first one definitely should be NFM.
                              >>
                              >> The second one is likely FM, but it could legally be used for or
                              >> converted to a NFM system.
                              >>
                              >> The emission designations are maximum allowed bandwidth, not necessarily
                              >> exact figures. So, a licensee for a 20K0 bandwidth channel (20.0 kHz to
                              >> put it in non-FCC-eeze) could be used for an 11K0 signal.
                              >>
                              >> The rest of the emission designator will put other restrictions on the
                              >> licensee, too, but they don't apply to what we are talking about.
                              >>
                              >> On second look, the .6500 channel is a splinter channel, and I didn't
                              >> think there were any licenses that wide (20K0) issued on T-band splinter
                              >> channels. Or were your examples hypothetical?
                              >>
                              >> Joe M.
                              >>
                              >> Jerry Dubzak - W2GLD wrote:
                              >>> Joe,
                              >>>
                              >>> >From what I see here then, the following should be true:
                              >>>
                              >>> 508.9875 with an emission designator of 11K should be NFM
                              >>>
                              >>> 508.6500 with an emission designator of 20K should be FM
                              >>>
                              >>> Is this a true statement???
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> On Oct 04, 2010, at 12:03 PM, MCH wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>> Uniden mode / Common designation / Deviation / Bandwidth
                              >>>> NFM SNFM 2.5 kHz 11.0 kHz
                              >>>> FM NBFM 5.0 kHz 16.0 kHz
                              >>>> WFM Wide FM 25.0 kHz 100.0 kHz (or 90.0)
                              >>>> FMB Wide FM 75.0 kHz 200.0 kHz (or 190.0)
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Channel spacing is a different issue, and while there are minimum limits
                              >>>> for the wider modes, any channel spacing can be used with any mode. For
                              >>>> example, SNFM can be used with 25 kHz channel spacing, or 20, or 15, or
                              >>>> 12.5, or even 7.5 or 6.25 even though that is technically unsound.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> But, if you have something operating on 6.25 or 7.5 kHz channels, it is
                              >>>> most likely SNFM.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> WFM is for TV, and FMB is for the "FM" radio band (88-108 MHz).
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Paul, if the quoted text is accurate, please update the specs.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Joe M.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> w2gld wrote:
                              >>>>> UPMan,
                              >>>>> Please clarify some information; the link you provided states the
                              >>>>> following:
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> NFMThe scanner treats the frequency as Narrowband FM modulation (about
                              >>>>> 7.5 kHz deviation; also referred to as SNFM in some references).FMThe
                              >>>>> scanner treats the frequency as FM modulation (about 15 kHz deviation;
                              >>>>> also referred to as NFM in some references).WFMThe scanner treats the
                              >>>>> frequency as Wideband FM modulation (over 100 kHz deviation; used for
                              >>>>> pre-digital conversion TV broadcast reception and similar).FMBThe
                              >>>>> scanner treats the frequency as FM broadcast modulation (about 75 kHz
                              >>>>> deviation; used for FM radio station reception and similar).
                              >>>>> >From a communications perspective, should the following be true?
                              >>>>> "FM" should be 5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of 15,
                              >>>>> 20, or 25 kHz.
                              >>>>> "NFM" should be 2.5 kHz maximum deviation, with a channel spacing of
                              >>>>> 6.25, 7.5, or 12.5 kHz.
                              >>>>> This setting for most is very ambiguous and has little documentation
                              >>>>> from Uniden. For whatever reason, Uniden has taken the standpoint that
                              >>>>> almost all VHF, UHF, and SHF traffic should be "NFM" when it follows the
                              >>>>> "AUTO" setting. Can you please explain why this is; other than future
                              >>>>> FCC licenses will require this setting?
                              >>>>> Would it be safe to assume that if a Project-25 (Conventional or
                              >>>>> Trunking System) uses 12.5 kHz channel spacing then the setting should
                              >>>>> ALWAYS be "NFM"
                              >>>>> And if this is true, should Project-16 (Conventional or Trunking
                              >>>>> Systems) that use 25.0 kHz channel spacing, should the setting ALWAYS be
                              >>>>> "FM"
                              >>>>> What I have found in researching the individual FCC licenses for many
                              >>>>> agencies is that the emissions designator indicates the appropriate
                              >>>>> bandwidth of a frequency and does not always follow the Uniden "AUTO"
                              >>>>> setting.
                              >>>>> For example, the "New Jersey State Police" use a Motorola Type II
                              >>>>> SmartZone trunked radio system within the 800 MHz band. Their licenses
                              >>>>> indicate 20K emissions designator, thus a setting of "FM" would be
                              >>>>> appropriate in my opinion to allow for the extra bandwidth. The Uniden
                              >>>>> scanners always default this to NFM under the "AUTO" setting and this
                              >>>>> usually makes the audio horrible to listen to. This case is exactly the
                              >>>>> same for the City of Philadelphia's system; which is "full digital -
                              >>>>> APCO-25 audio" With the default "NFM" setting, this system is almost
                              >>>>> useless to monitor; however, if one changes the setting to "FM" the
                              >>>>> system track fine with little issues.
                              >>>>> Another example is the "Burlington County, NJ", which is also a Motorola
                              >>>>> Type II SmartZone system. Their bandplan indicates 12.5 kHz channel
                              >>>>> spacing, thus the audio should be "NFM" correct?
                              >>>>> By the explanation in the link you've provided, most communication would
                              >>>>> in fact remain "FM" and not the default "AUTO" setting or "NFM".
                              >>>>> If I am understanding the text correctly, ONLY the "SUPER-Narrowband"
                              >>>>> frequencies such as VHF 7.5 kHz and UHF 6.25 kHz should use the setting
                              >>>>> of "NFM", is this a true statement from what Uniden engineers have
                              >>>>> designed???
                              >>>>> To summarize, when should one use the "NFM" setting vs. the "FM" setting
                              >>>>> for general public safety use? Is the "NFM" setting on for the
                              >>>>> "SUPER-Narrowband" frequencies, such as those licensed for 7.5 kHz on
                              >>>>> VHF and 6.25 kHz on UHF ONLY?
                              >>>>> If you could please elaborate on this topic, I am sure many of us would
                              >>>>> appreciate it.
                              >>>>> Thank you for all your support here on the groups and RadioReference!
                              >>>>> Regards,
                              >>>>> Jerry - W2GLD
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, Uniden UPMan <uniden.upman@...> wrote:
                              >>>>> http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/EditChannel#Set_Modulat\
                              >>>>> ion
                              >>>>>> Â UPMan
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> ________________________________
                              >>>>>> From: Lance Star milcom_chaser@...
                              >>>>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:54:52 PM
                              >>>>>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> Â
                              >>>>>> Ok, sounds like Close Call is following the band default mappings when
                              >>>>> in Auto
                              >>>>>> mode for demodulation.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> What are the deviation settings in this radio for:
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> NFM
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> FM
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> FMB
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> I have not looked to see if these are in the specification section
                              >>>>> yet.
                              >>>>>> Thanks UPMan!
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> ________________________________
                              >>>>>> From: Uniden UPMan uniden.upman@...
                              >>>>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 11:27:53 AM
                              >>>>>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> Since most band defaults in the scanner are NFM, I'd suspect that the
                              >>>>> service is
                              >>>>>> transmitting FM and you have the channel programmed correctly as FM.
                              >>>>> But, on a
                              >>>>>> Close Call hit, FM will overmodulate NFM demodulation and result in
                              >>>>> the audio
                              >>>>>> being much louder.
                              >>>>>> UPMan
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> ________________________________
                              >>>>>> From: milcom_chaser milcom_chaser@...
                              >>>>>> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>>>> Sent: Fri, October 1, 2010 1:14:36 PM
                              >>>>>> Subject: [BCD396XT] Audio level differences...
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> I was scanning some conventional public service frequencies with close
                              >>>>> call in
                              >>>>>> DND mode. I noticed when close call came across a local PD frequency,
                              >>>>> it's audio
                              >>>>>> level was much louder than the same one programmed into the radio
                              >>>>> within a
                              >>>>>> group. I have not check the AGC level settings, but wondered if anyone
                              >>>>> else has
                              >>>>>> noticed this as well?
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> ------------------------------------
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> ------------------------------------
                              >>>
                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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