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Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities

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  • Paul Opitz
    Ah, you must be talking about how we didn t add Close Call DND, Fire Tone Out 30-second delay, etc as well as rebanding in the latest updates. ;) To add a
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 6, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Ah, you must be talking about how we didn't add Close Call DND, Fire Tone Out 30-second delay, etc as well as rebanding in the latest updates. ;)

      To add a feature we have to balance implementation cost, technical feasibility, competitive issues, etc. We cannot do everything we want to do (sometimes for multiple reasons).

      I typically cannot provide such detail for our reasoning as such intel is considered proprietary and confidential ...and on most days I do want to keep my job. :)


      ________________________________
      From: Mike Iszak <miszak@...>
      To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 10:23:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities


      Given Uniden's past attitude towards adding features, its very clear they don't care.

      They refuse to add features they already have in other radios (IE, talkgroup voice type). The radio is already decoding the info in the idle bursts and the data on the voice channel anyway. It would take NOTHING to display it on the screen, or not require proper placement.

      It isn't about if a feature is going to be used in a particular area...its that the capability is already there, they just choose to limit the abilities of their radio. I don't believe any excuses such as design limitations or memory because that simply isn't true!
      -----Original Message-----
      From: "johnstark" <johnstark@earthlink .net>

      Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:15:34
      To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com>
      Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities

      First off be civil, I'm not under any rock. Second your in Canada, not in
      the US. Third I was talking about PUBLIC SAFETY using LTR. Even businesses
      though are dropping LTR due to reliability issues. Fourth, it may be "huge"
      in Canada but not around here. There are two systems within 50 miles.....
      Fifth, I'm sure your an expert on what it would take for Uniden to the
      requested feature to their scanners. As I said earlier there really isn't
      that big a market for it and knowing about design etc I don't think it would
      pay for them to add, and if it was easy as you said they would have added it
      long ago.

      John

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@gmail. com>
      To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com>
      Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:59 PM
      Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities

      > Under what rock are you living sir?
      >
      > LTR is *huge* and it isn't going away anytime soon.
      >
      > To say "just run LTR Analyzer" is great, but that doesn't help the guy
      > who's in the field trying to map out a system.
      >
      > Up here in Toronto, there are a good number of LTR systems that are listed
      > on RR, but there are a LOT that aren't, and a LOT that are incorrect.
      >
      > It requires very little effort on Unidens part to have an LTR analyze
      > mode...the idle bursts announce what home channels are free and what
      > channels are busy...this is also transmitted on voice traffic. You could
      > have even a slow system mapped in half an hour.
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@earthlink .net>
      >
      > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:34:38
      > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com>
      > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
      >
      >
      > Most LTR systems are already "known" so having that feature is kind of a
      > wasted effort for Uniden, and as pointed out LTR Analyzer does the same
      > thing, so again it really doesn't need to be a high priority for Uniden.
      > LTR
      > systems are getting fewer and fewer and the number of public safety users
      > is
      > dropping as well. I know of just one in Indiana that uses it and it's
      > really
      > useless for big incidents as that county learned the hard way. They have
      > been investigateing other systems now to see whats going to work best for
      > them and will dropping the LTR system as it is too limited for public
      > safety. And thats another reason I doubt Uniden will waste research time
      > on
      > something thats just not used that much for public safety, and most
      > scanner
      > users don't use them for business monitoring. I do on occasion, but not
      > enough to waste Unidens time, I'd prefer they work on more important
      > things..... and thats a long list :)
      >
      > John
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "torontokris" <torontokris@ yahoo.com>
      > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:48 AM
      > Subject: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
      >
      >
      >> John yes it works for LTR & EDACS but he wants to find out the LCN's
      >> without programming in the whole system. Say if he only knew one
      >> frequency
      >> and held on it to get the LCN's from the scanner.
      >>
      >> Terry have you tried the LTR analyzer program? May not work for what you
      >> need but try
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com, "johnstark" <johnstark@. ..> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Never had a problem listening to LTR or EDACS on the 396T
      >>>
      >>> ----- Original Message -----
      >>> From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@ ...>
      >>> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com>
      >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:28 PM
      >>> Subject: [BCD396XT] LTR Capabilities
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> > UPMan...
      >>> >
      >>> > Will there be in this radio or ever any in Uniden radios, the support
      >>> > to
      >>> > be able to monitor LTR & EDACS frequencies and be able to obtain the
      >>> > LCN
      >>> > via simply monitoring the frequency?
      >>> >
      >>> > This is a great feature on GREs and would love to see it on Unidens.
      >>> >
      >>> > If you need a better explanation, please ask.
      >>> >
      >>> > Thanks
      >>> >
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • johnstark
      Finding frequencies is part of the fun and if you have a little patience you can find them. I have two scanners that run 24/7 just looking for new frequencies.
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 6, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Finding frequencies is part of the fun and if you have a little patience you
        can find them. I have two scanners that run 24/7 just looking for new
        frequencies. Both are logging all hits and I find a lot of supposedly dead
        frequencies are not so dead too.

        John


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Clark" <rest20lu@...>
        To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:06 AM
        Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities


        > In Southern Calif., there are several (and interesting) LTR systems that
        > ambulance services use. Plus business LTR
        > systems that are sometimes more interesting than public safety.
        > LTR-Analyzer is good for determining the proper LCN and displaying the TGs
        > but not much help for finding the actual frequencies.
        >
        > Clark
        >
        >
        > At 08:15 PM 3/5/2009, you wrote:
        >
        >>First off be civil, I'm not under any rock. Second your in Canada, not in
        >>the US. Third I was talking about PUBLIC SAFETY using LTR. Even businesses
        >>though are dropping LTR due to reliability issues. Fourth, it may be
        >>"huge"
        >>in Canada but not around here. There are two systems within 50 miles.....
        >> Fifth, I'm sure your an expert on what it would take for Uniden to the
        >>requested feature to their scanners. As I said earlier there really isn't
        >>that big a market for it and knowing about design etc I don't think it
        >>would
        >>pay for them to add, and if it was easy as you said they would have added
        >>it
        >>long ago.
        >>
        >>John
        >>
        >>
        >>----- Original Message -----
        >>From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...>
        >>To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
        >>Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:59 PM
        >>Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
        >>
        >>
        >> > Under what rock are you living sir?
        >> >
        >> > LTR is *huge* and it isn't going away anytime soon.
        >> >
        >> > To say "just run LTR Analyzer" is great, but that doesn't help the guy
        >> > who's in the field trying to map out a system.
        >> >
        >> > Up here in Toronto, there are a good number of LTR systems that are
        >> > listed
        >> > on RR, but there are a LOT that aren't, and a LOT that are incorrect.
        >> >
        >> > It requires very little effort on Unidens part to have an LTR analyze
        >> > mode...the idle bursts announce what home channels are free and what
        >> > channels are busy...this is also transmitted on voice traffic. You
        >> > could
        >> > have even a slow system mapped in half an hour.
        >> > -----Original Message-----
        >> > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...>
        >> >
        >> > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:34:38
        >> > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
        >> > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > Most LTR systems are already "known" so having that feature is kind of
        >> > a
        >> > wasted effort for Uniden, and as pointed out LTR Analyzer does the same
        >> > thing, so again it really doesn't need to be a high priority for
        >> > Uniden.
        >> > LTR
        >> > systems are getting fewer and fewer and the number of public safety
        >> > users
        >> > is
        >> > dropping as well. I know of just one in Indiana that uses it and it's
        >> > really
        >> > useless for big incidents as that county learned the hard way. They
        >> > have
        >> > been investigateing other systems now to see whats going to work best
        >> > for
        >> > them and will dropping the LTR system as it is too limited for public
        >> > safety. And thats another reason I doubt Uniden will waste research
        >> > time
        >> > on
        >> > something thats just not used that much for public safety, and most
        >> > scanner
        >> > users don't use them for business monitoring. I do on occasion, but
        >> > not
        >> > enough to waste Unidens time, I'd prefer they work on more important
        >> > things..... and thats a long list :)
        >> >
        >> > John
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • johnstark
        Mike, Again you don t seem to grasp things from a business standpoint or an engineering standpoint. What may work with one radio may not work on the next due
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 6, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Mike,

          Again you don't seem to grasp things from a business standpoint or an
          engineering standpoint. What may work with one radio may not work on the
          next due to firmware conflicts or a 100 other things. Believe me Uniden
          cares and they listen, so does GRE, but scanners are not the one and only
          product these companies make either. Everything they affects the bottom line
          and today thats even tougher. Undien is taking a huge gamble right now even
          releasing the new scanner due the worlds economy. It could make or break the
          scanner line now.
          The 396XT was made for a specific market, North America and certain things
          popular here may not be somewhere else. Scanners made for specific markets
          also have frequency differences, whats blocked here may not be blocked
          somewhere else and vice versa so taking your scanner to another country
          could possibly violate their laws. It's usually OK if you are an amature
          radio operator but even then it can get hairy.
          Learn about business descisions and manufacturing though before saying that
          Uniden is refusing to add things they had in the past or that it would be
          simple to add something new, it isn't as easy to do as you think or would
          like and many things need considered..... and memory is just one of the many
          things to consider.

          John


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...>
          To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities


          > Given Uniden's past attitude towards adding features, its very clear they
          > don't care.
          >
          > They refuse to add features they already have in other radios (IE,
          > talkgroup voice type). The radio is already decoding the info in the idle
          > bursts and the data on the voice channel anyway. It would take NOTHING to
          > display it on the screen, or not require proper placement.
          >
          > It isn't about if a feature is going to be used in a particular area...its
          > that the capability is already there, they just choose to limit the
          > abilities of their radio. I don't believe any excuses such as design
          > limitations or memory because that simply isn't true!
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...>
          >
          > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:15:34
          > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
          >
          >
          > First off be civil, I'm not under any rock. Second your in Canada, not in
          > the US. Third I was talking about PUBLIC SAFETY using LTR. Even businesses
          > though are dropping LTR due to reliability issues. Fourth, it may be
          > "huge"
          > in Canada but not around here. There are two systems within 50 miles.....
          > Fifth, I'm sure your an expert on what it would take for Uniden to the
          > requested feature to their scanners. As I said earlier there really isn't
          > that big a market for it and knowing about design etc I don't think it
          > would
          > pay for them to add, and if it was easy as you said they would have added
          > it
          > long ago.
          >
          > John
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...>
          > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:59 PM
          > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
          >
          >
          >> Under what rock are you living sir?
          >>
          >> LTR is *huge* and it isn't going away anytime soon.
          >>
          >> To say "just run LTR Analyzer" is great, but that doesn't help the guy
          >> who's in the field trying to map out a system.
          >>
          >> Up here in Toronto, there are a good number of LTR systems that are
          >> listed
          >> on RR, but there are a LOT that aren't, and a LOT that are incorrect.
          >>
          >> It requires very little effort on Unidens part to have an LTR analyze
          >> mode...the idle bursts announce what home channels are free and what
          >> channels are busy...this is also transmitted on voice traffic. You could
          >> have even a slow system mapped in half an hour.
          >> -----Original Message-----
          >> From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...>
          >>
          >> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:34:38
          >> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
          >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
          >>
          >>
          >> Most LTR systems are already "known" so having that feature is kind of a
          >> wasted effort for Uniden, and as pointed out LTR Analyzer does the same
          >> thing, so again it really doesn't need to be a high priority for Uniden.
          >> LTR
          >> systems are getting fewer and fewer and the number of public safety users
          >> is
          >> dropping as well. I know of just one in Indiana that uses it and it's
          >> really
          >> useless for big incidents as that county learned the hard way. They have
          >> been investigateing other systems now to see whats going to work best for
          >> them and will dropping the LTR system as it is too limited for public
          >> safety. And thats another reason I doubt Uniden will waste research time
          >> on
          >> something thats just not used that much for public safety, and most
          >> scanner
          >> users don't use them for business monitoring. I do on occasion, but not
          >> enough to waste Unidens time, I'd prefer they work on more important
          >> things..... and thats a long list :)
          >>
          >> John
          >>
          >>
          >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> From: "torontokris" <torontokris@...>
          >> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
          >> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:48 AM
          >> Subject: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
          >>
          >>
          >>> John yes it works for LTR & EDACS but he wants to find out the LCN's
          >>> without programming in the whole system. Say if he only knew one
          >>> frequency
          >>> and held on it to get the LCN's from the scanner.
          >>>
          >>> Terry have you tried the LTR analyzer program? May not work for what you
          >>> need but try
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, "johnstark" <johnstark@...> wrote:
          >>>>
          >>>> Never had a problem listening to LTR or EDACS on the 396T
          >>>>
          >>>> ----- Original Message -----
          >>>> From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@...>
          >>>> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
          >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:28 PM
          >>>> Subject: [BCD396XT] LTR Capabilities
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> > UPMan...
          >>>> >
          >>>> > Will there be in this radio or ever any in Uniden radios, the support
          >>>> > to
          >>>> > be able to monitor LTR & EDACS frequencies and be able to obtain the
          >>>> > LCN
          >>>> > via simply monitoring the frequency?
          >>>> >
          >>>> > This is a great feature on GREs and would love to see it on Unidens.
          >>>> >
          >>>> > If you need a better explanation, please ask.
          >>>> >
          >>>> > Thanks
          >>>> >
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> ------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Don.Curtis@att.net
          Hey Mike, Why don t you climb all over Microsoft s back too. I mean, they don t offer free updates to the latest and greatest features. Heck no, those jerks
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 6, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hey Mike,
            Why don't you climb all over Microsoft's back too. I mean, they don't offer free updates to the latest and greatest features. Heck no, those jerks only offer free fixes, but if you want the next version of Windows...why they actually make you PAY for it.

            Every company has to make a decision between upgrading and selling new. Look at the car companies.....every year, a new model with new features. Course they're going down the tubes, but not because they don't give current owners all the new features for free.

            Uniden is in business to make money. They have to keep happy customers to do so, but their main thrust (like all companies) is to make money. Decisions get made all the time, by every company, on what to sell new, and what to upgrade and what policies apply to do so.

            Yea, there will be people like you who get angry, and maybe never buy another product from them, and there will be more who will pay the cost to get the new <whatever>. One presumes, the marketing folks know which will generate the bigger long term stability for the company...which means they make enought money to stay in business and keep improving things.

            That's life....live with it.


            -------------- Original message from "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...>: --------------


            Given Uniden's past attitude towards adding features, its very clear they don't care.

            They refuse to add features they already have in other radios (IE, talkgroup voice type). The radio is already decoding the info in the idle bursts and the data on the voice channel anyway. It would take NOTHING to display it on the screen, or not require proper placement.

            It isn't about if a feature is going to be used in a particular area...its that the capability is already there, they just choose to limit the abilities of their radio. I don't believe any excuses such as design limitations or memory because that simply isn't true!
            -----Original Message-----
            From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...>

            Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:15:34
            To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities

            First off be civil, I'm not under any rock. Second your in Canada, not in
            the US. Third I was talking about PUBLIC SAFETY using LTR. Even businesses
            though are dropping LTR due to reliability issues. Fourth, it may be "huge"
            in Canada but not around here. There are two systems within 50 miles.....
            Fifth, I'm sure your an expert on what it would take for Uniden to the
            requested feature to their scanners. As I said earlier there really isn't
            that big a market for it and knowing about design etc I don't think it would
            pay for them to add, and if it was easy as you said they would have added it
            long ago.

            John

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...>
            To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:59 PM
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities

            > Under what rock are you living sir?
            >
            > LTR is *huge* and it isn't going away anytime soon.
            >
            > To say "just run LTR Analyzer" is great, but that doesn't help the guy
            > who's in the field trying to map out a system.
            >
            > Up here in Toronto, there are a good number of LTR systems that are listed
            > on RR, but there are a LOT that aren't, and a LOT that are incorrect.
            >
            > It requires very little effort on Unidens part to have an LTR analyze
            > mode...the idle bursts announce what home channels are free and what
            > channels are busy...this is also transmitted on voice traffic. You could
            > have even a slow system mapped in half an hour.
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...>
            >
            > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:34:38
            > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
            >
            >
            > Most LTR systems are already "known" so having that feature is kind of a
            > wasted effort for Uniden, and as pointed out LTR Analyzer does the same
            > thing, so again it really doesn't need to be a high priority for Uniden.
            > LTR
            > systems are getting fewer and fewer and the number of public safety users
            > is
            > dropping as well. I know of just one in Indiana that uses it and it's
            > really
            > useless for big incidents as that county learned the hard way. They have
            > been investigateing other systems now to see whats going to work best for
            > them and will dropping the LTR system as it is too limited for public
            > safety. And thats another reason I doubt Uniden will waste research time
            > on
            > something thats just not used that much for public safety, and most
            > scanner
            > users don't use them for business monitoring. I do on occasion, but not
            > enough to waste Unidens time, I'd prefer they work on more important
            > things..... and thats a long list :)
            >
            > John
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "torontokris" <torontokris@...>
            > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:48 AM
            > Subject: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
            >
            >
            >> John yes it works for LTR & EDACS but he wants to find out the LCN's
            >> without programming in the whole system. Say if he only knew one
            >> frequency
            >> and held on it to get the LCN's from the scanner.
            >>
            >> Terry have you tried the LTR analyzer program? May not work for what you
            >> need but try
            >>
            >>
            >> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, "johnstark" <johnstark@...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> Never had a problem listening to LTR or EDACS on the 396T
            >>>
            >>> ----- Original Message -----
            >>> From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@...>
            >>> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
            >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:28 PM
            >>> Subject: [BCD396XT] LTR Capabilities
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> > UPMan...
            >>> >
            >>> > Will there be in this radio or ever any in Uniden radios, the support
            >>> > to
            >>> > be able to monitor LTR & EDACS frequencies and be able to obtain the
            >>> > LCN
            >>> > via simply monitoring the frequency?
            >>> >
            >>> > This is a great feature on GREs and would love to see it on Unidens.
            >>> >
            >>> > If you need a better explanation, please ask.
            >>> >
            >>> > Thanks
            >>> >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Terry (SC21)
            Back to my original question.. Is or has Uniden considered this feature at all? Thanks Terry PS... LTR is HUGE in the St Louis area, multiple companies with
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 6, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Back to my original question..

              Is or has Uniden considered this feature at all?

              Thanks
              Terry

              PS... LTR is HUGE in the St Louis area, multiple companies with multiple
              systems on VHF, UHF, 800 & 900 MHz.



              Don.Curtis@... wrote:
              >
              > Hey Mike,
              > Why don't you climb all over Microsoft's back too. I mean, they don't
              > offer free updates to the latest and greatest features. Heck no, those
              > jerks only offer free fixes, but if you want the next version of
              > Windows...why they actually make you PAY for it.
              >
              > Every company has to make a decision between upgrading and selling
              > new. Look at the car companies.....every year, a new model with new
              > features. Course they're going down the tubes, but not because they
              > don't give current owners all the new features for free.
              >
              > Uniden is in business to make money. They have to keep happy customers
              > to do so, but their main thrust (like all companies) is to make money.
              > Decisions get made all the time, by every company, on what to sell
              > new, and what to upgrade and what policies apply to do so.
              >
              > Yea, there will be people like you who get angry, and maybe never buy
              > another product from them, and there will be more who will pay the
              > cost to get the new <whatever>. One presumes, the marketing folks know
              > which will generate the bigger long term stability for the
              > company...which means they make enought money to stay in business and
              > keep improving things.
              >
              > That's life....live with it.
              >
              > -------------- Original message from "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...
              > <mailto:miszak%40gmail.com>>: --------------
              >
              > Given Uniden's past attitude towards adding features, its very clear
              > they don't care.
              >
              > They refuse to add features they already have in other radios (IE,
              > talkgroup voice type). The radio is already decoding the info in the
              > idle bursts and the data on the voice channel anyway. It would take
              > NOTHING to display it on the screen, or not require proper placement.
              >
              > It isn't about if a feature is going to be used in a particular
              > area...its that the capability is already there, they just choose to
              > limit the abilities of their radio. I don't believe any excuses such
              > as design limitations or memory because that simply isn't true!
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...
              > <mailto:johnstark%40earthlink.net>>
              >
              > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:15:34
              > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
              >
              > First off be civil, I'm not under any rock. Second your in Canada, not in
              > the US. Third I was talking about PUBLIC SAFETY using LTR. Even
              > businesses
              > though are dropping LTR due to reliability issues. Fourth, it may be
              > "huge"
              > in Canada but not around here. There are two systems within 50 miles.....
              > Fifth, I'm sure your an expert on what it would take for Uniden to the
              > requested feature to their scanners. As I said earlier there really isn't
              > that big a market for it and knowing about design etc I don't think it
              > would
              > pay for them to add, and if it was easy as you said they would have
              > added it
              > long ago.
              >
              > John
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@... <mailto:miszak%40gmail.com>>
              > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:59 PM
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
              >
              > > Under what rock are you living sir?
              > >
              > > LTR is *huge* and it isn't going away anytime soon.
              > >
              > > To say "just run LTR Analyzer" is great, but that doesn't help the guy
              > > who's in the field trying to map out a system.
              > >
              > > Up here in Toronto, there are a good number of LTR systems that are
              > listed
              > > on RR, but there are a LOT that aren't, and a LOT that are incorrect.
              > >
              > > It requires very little effort on Unidens part to have an LTR analyze
              > > mode...the idle bursts announce what home channels are free and what
              > > channels are busy...this is also transmitted on voice traffic. You
              > could
              > > have even a slow system mapped in half an hour.
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...
              > <mailto:johnstark%40earthlink.net>>
              > >
              > > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:34:38
              > > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
              > >
              > >
              > > Most LTR systems are already "known" so having that feature is kind of a
              > > wasted effort for Uniden, and as pointed out LTR Analyzer does the same
              > > thing, so again it really doesn't need to be a high priority for
              > Uniden.
              > > LTR
              > > systems are getting fewer and fewer and the number of public safety
              > users
              > > is
              > > dropping as well. I know of just one in Indiana that uses it and it's
              > > really
              > > useless for big incidents as that county learned the hard way. They have
              > > been investigateing other systems now to see whats going to work
              > best for
              > > them and will dropping the LTR system as it is too limited for public
              > > safety. And thats another reason I doubt Uniden will waste research
              > time
              > > on
              > > something thats just not used that much for public safety, and most
              > > scanner
              > > users don't use them for business monitoring. I do on occasion, but not
              > > enough to waste Unidens time, I'd prefer they work on more important
              > > things..... and thats a long list :)
              > >
              > > John
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "torontokris" <torontokris@...
              > <mailto:torontokris%40yahoo.com>>
              > > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:48 AM
              > > Subject: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
              > >
              > >
              > >> John yes it works for LTR & EDACS but he wants to find out the LCN's
              > >> without programming in the whole system. Say if he only knew one
              > >> frequency
              > >> and held on it to get the LCN's from the scanner.
              > >>
              > >> Terry have you tried the LTR analyzer program? May not work for
              > what you
              > >> need but try
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>, "johnstark" <johnstark@...> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>> Never had a problem listening to LTR or EDACS on the 396T
              > >>>
              > >>> ----- Original Message -----
              > >>> From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@...>
              > >>> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:28 PM
              > >>> Subject: [BCD396XT] LTR Capabilities
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> > UPMan...
              > >>> >
              > >>> > Will there be in this radio or ever any in Uniden radios, the
              > support
              > >>> > to
              > >>> > be able to monitor LTR & EDACS frequencies and be able to obtain the
              > >>> > LCN
              > >>> > via simply monitoring the frequency?
              > >>> >
              > >>> > This is a great feature on GREs and would love to see it on Unidens.
              > >>> >
              > >>> > If you need a better explanation, please ask.
              > >>> >
              > >>> > Thanks
              > >>> >
              > >>
              >
              > __._,_._
              >
              >
              >
            • johnstark
              I beleive Upman already answered you on this. You also keep ignoring the fact that most people don t buy scanners to listen to business comms, and LTR is 99%
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 7, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I beleive Upman already answered you on this.


                You also keep ignoring the fact that most people don't buy scanners to
                listen to business comms, and LTR is 99% business.

                John


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@...>
                To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:00 AM
                Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities


                > Back to my original question..
                >
                > Is or has Uniden considered this feature at all?
                >
                > Thanks
                > Terry
                >
                > PS... LTR is HUGE in the St Louis area, multiple companies with multiple
                > systems on VHF, UHF, 800 & 900 MHz.
                >
                >
                >
                > Don.Curtis@... wrote:
                >>
                >> Hey Mike,
                >> Why don't you climb all over Microsoft's back too. I mean, they don't
                >> offer free updates to the latest and greatest features. Heck no, those
                >> jerks only offer free fixes, but if you want the next version of
                >> Windows...why they actually make you PAY for it.
                >>
                >> Every company has to make a decision between upgrading and selling
                >> new. Look at the car companies.....every year, a new model with new
                >> features. Course they're going down the tubes, but not because they
                >> don't give current owners all the new features for free.
                >>
                >> Uniden is in business to make money. They have to keep happy customers
                >> to do so, but their main thrust (like all companies) is to make money.
                >> Decisions get made all the time, by every company, on what to sell
                >> new, and what to upgrade and what policies apply to do so.
                >>
                >> Yea, there will be people like you who get angry, and maybe never buy
                >> another product from them, and there will be more who will pay the
                >> cost to get the new <whatever>. One presumes, the marketing folks know
                >> which will generate the bigger long term stability for the
                >> company...which means they make enought money to stay in business and
                >> keep improving things.
                >>
                >> That's life....live with it.
                >>
                >> -------------- Original message from "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...
                >> <mailto:miszak%40gmail.com>>: --------------
                >>
                >> Given Uniden's past attitude towards adding features, its very clear
                >> they don't care.
                >>
                >> They refuse to add features they already have in other radios (IE,
                >> talkgroup voice type). The radio is already decoding the info in the
                >> idle bursts and the data on the voice channel anyway. It would take
                >> NOTHING to display it on the screen, or not require proper placement.
                >>
                >> It isn't about if a feature is going to be used in a particular
                >> area...its that the capability is already there, they just choose to
                >> limit the abilities of their radio. I don't believe any excuses such
                >> as design limitations or memory because that simply isn't true!
                >> -----Original Message-----
                >> From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...
                >> <mailto:johnstark%40earthlink.net>>
                >>
                >> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:15:34
                >> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                >>
                >> First off be civil, I'm not under any rock. Second your in Canada, not in
                >> the US. Third I was talking about PUBLIC SAFETY using LTR. Even
                >> businesses
                >> though are dropping LTR due to reliability issues. Fourth, it may be
                >> "huge"
                >> in Canada but not around here. There are two systems within 50 miles.....
                >> Fifth, I'm sure your an expert on what it would take for Uniden to the
                >> requested feature to their scanners. As I said earlier there really isn't
                >> that big a market for it and knowing about design etc I don't think it
                >> would
                >> pay for them to add, and if it was easy as you said they would have
                >> added it
                >> long ago.
                >>
                >> John
                >>
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >> From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@... <mailto:miszak%40gmail.com>>
                >> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                >> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:59 PM
                >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                >>
                >> > Under what rock are you living sir?
                >> >
                >> > LTR is *huge* and it isn't going away anytime soon.
                >> >
                >> > To say "just run LTR Analyzer" is great, but that doesn't help the guy
                >> > who's in the field trying to map out a system.
                >> >
                >> > Up here in Toronto, there are a good number of LTR systems that are
                >> listed
                >> > on RR, but there are a LOT that aren't, and a LOT that are incorrect.
                >> >
                >> > It requires very little effort on Unidens part to have an LTR analyze
                >> > mode...the idle bursts announce what home channels are free and what
                >> > channels are busy...this is also transmitted on voice traffic. You
                >> could
                >> > have even a slow system mapped in half an hour.
                >> > -----Original Message-----
                >> > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...
                >> <mailto:johnstark%40earthlink.net>>
                >> >
                >> > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:34:38
                >> > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                >> > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Most LTR systems are already "known" so having that feature is kind of
                >> > a
                >> > wasted effort for Uniden, and as pointed out LTR Analyzer does the same
                >> > thing, so again it really doesn't need to be a high priority for
                >> Uniden.
                >> > LTR
                >> > systems are getting fewer and fewer and the number of public safety
                >> users
                >> > is
                >> > dropping as well. I know of just one in Indiana that uses it and it's
                >> > really
                >> > useless for big incidents as that county learned the hard way. They
                >> > have
                >> > been investigateing other systems now to see whats going to work
                >> best for
                >> > them and will dropping the LTR system as it is too limited for public
                >> > safety. And thats another reason I doubt Uniden will waste research
                >> time
                >> > on
                >> > something thats just not used that much for public safety, and most
                >> > scanner
                >> > users don't use them for business monitoring. I do on occasion, but not
                >> > enough to waste Unidens time, I'd prefer they work on more important
                >> > things..... and thats a long list :)
                >> >
                >> > John
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ----- Original Message -----
                >> > From: "torontokris" <torontokris@...
                >> <mailto:torontokris%40yahoo.com>>
                >> > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                >> > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:48 AM
                >> > Subject: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >> John yes it works for LTR & EDACS but he wants to find out the LCN's
                >> >> without programming in the whole system. Say if he only knew one
                >> >> frequency
                >> >> and held on it to get the LCN's from the scanner.
                >> >>
                >> >> Terry have you tried the LTR analyzer program? May not work for
                >> what you
                >> >> need but try
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                >> <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>, "johnstark" <johnstark@...> wrote:
                >> >>>
                >> >>> Never had a problem listening to LTR or EDACS on the 396T
                >> >>>
                >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
                >> >>> From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@...>
                >> >>> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:28 PM
                >> >>> Subject: [BCD396XT] LTR Capabilities
                >> >>>
                >> >>>
                >> >>> > UPMan...
                >> >>> >
                >> >>> > Will there be in this radio or ever any in Uniden radios, the
                >> support
                >> >>> > to
                >> >>> > be able to monitor LTR & EDACS frequencies and be able to obtain
                >> >>> > the
                >> >>> > LCN
                >> >>> > via simply monitoring the frequency?
                >> >>> >
                >> >>> > This is a great feature on GREs and would love to see it on
                >> >>> > Unidens.
                >> >>> >
                >> >>> > If you need a better explanation, please ask.
                >> >>> >
                >> >>> > Thanks
                >> >>> >
                >> >>
                >>
                >> __._,_._
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • ScanIL
                Its a simple question and valid. No need for the attitude. Again, LTR is VERY popular in st louis & chicago. One 800 MHz and three 900 MHz systems are used by
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 7, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Its a simple question and valid.

                  No need for the attitude.

                  Again, LTR is VERY popular in st louis & chicago.

                  One 800 MHz and three 900 MHz systems are used by EMS agencies in the st louis metro area. Also used by traffic helicopters and multiple security companies.

                  Chicago has even more usage.

                  It was just a simple question, I must have missed the response from "upman".

                  End of my discussion. Thanks to all that responded.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: johnstark <johnstark@...>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:56 PM
                  To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities


                  I beleive Upman already answered you on this.

                  You also keep ignoring the fact that most people don't buy scanners to
                  listen to business comms, and LTR is 99% business.

                  John

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@...>
                  To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:00 AM
                  Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities

                  > Back to my original question..
                  >
                  > Is or has Uniden considered this feature at all?
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  > Terry
                  >
                  > PS... LTR is HUGE in the St Louis area, multiple companies with multiple
                  > systems on VHF, UHF, 800 & 900 MHz.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Don.Curtis@... wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Hey Mike,
                  >> Why don't you climb all over Microsoft's back too. I mean, they don't
                  >> offer free updates to the latest and greatest features. Heck no, those
                  >> jerks only offer free fixes, but if you want the next version of
                  >> Windows...why they actually make you PAY for it.
                  >>
                  >> Every company has to make a decision between upgrading and selling
                  >> new. Look at the car companies.....every year, a new model with new
                  >> features. Course they're going down the tubes, but not because they
                  >> don't give current owners all the new features for free.
                  >>
                  >> Uniden is in business to make money. They have to keep happy customers
                  >> to do so, but their main thrust (like all companies) is to make money.
                  >> Decisions get made all the time, by every company, on what to sell
                  >> new, and what to upgrade and what policies apply to do so.
                  >>
                  >> Yea, there will be people like you who get angry, and maybe never buy
                  >> another product from them, and there will be more who will pay the
                  >> cost to get the new <whatever>. One presumes, the marketing folks know
                  >> which will generate the bigger long term stability for the
                  >> company...which means they make enought money to stay in business and
                  >> keep improving things.
                  >>
                  >> That's life....live with it.
                  >>
                  >> -------------- Original message from "Mike Iszak" <miszak@...
                  >> <mailto:miszak%40gmail.com>>: --------------
                  >>
                  >> Given Uniden's past attitude towards adding features, its very clear
                  >> they don't care.
                  >>
                  >> They refuse to add features they already have in other radios (IE,
                  >> talkgroup voice type). The radio is already decoding the info in the
                  >> idle bursts and the data on the voice channel anyway. It would take
                  >> NOTHING to display it on the screen, or not require proper placement.
                  >>
                  >> It isn't about if a feature is going to be used in a particular
                  >> area...its that the capability is already there, they just choose to
                  >> limit the abilities of their radio. I don't believe any excuses such
                  >> as design limitations or memory because that simply isn't true!
                  >> -----Original Message-----
                  >> From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...
                  >> <mailto:johnstark%40earthlink.net>>
                  >>
                  >> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:15:34
                  >> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                  >>
                  >> First off be civil, I'm not under any rock. Second your in Canada, not in
                  >> the US. Third I was talking about PUBLIC SAFETY using LTR. Even
                  >> businesses
                  >> though are dropping LTR due to reliability issues. Fourth, it may be
                  >> "huge"
                  >> in Canada but not around here. There are two systems within 50 miles....
                  >> Fifth, I'm sure your an expert on what it would take for Uniden to the
                  >> requested feature to their scanners. As I said earlier there really isn't
                  >> that big a market for it and knowing about design etc I don't think it
                  >> would
                  >> pay for them to add, and if it was easy as you said they would have
                  >> added it
                  >> long ago.
                  >>
                  >> John
                  >>
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: "Mike Iszak" <miszak@... <mailto:miszak%40gmail.com>>
                  >> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  >> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:59 PM
                  >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                  >>
                  >> > Under what rock are you living sir?
                  >> >
                  >> > LTR is *huge* and it isn't going away anytime soon.
                  >> >
                  >> > To say "just run LTR Analyzer" is great, but that doesn't help the guy
                  >> > who's in the field trying to map out a system.
                  >> >
                  >> > Up here in Toronto, there are a good number of LTR systems that are
                  >> listed
                  >> > on RR, but there are a LOT that aren't, and a LOT that are incorrect.
                  >> >
                  >> > It requires very little effort on Unidens part to have an LTR analyze
                  >> > mode...the idle bursts announce what home channels are free and what
                  >> > channels are busy...this is also transmitted on voice traffic. You
                  >> could
                  >> > have even a slow system mapped in half an hour.
                  >> > -----Original Message-----
                  >> > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...
                  >> <mailto:johnstark%40earthlink.net>>
                  >> >
                  >> > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:34:38
                  >> > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  >> > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > Most LTR systems are already "known" so having that feature is kind of
                  >> > a
                  >> > wasted effort for Uniden, and as pointed out LTR Analyzer does the same
                  >> > thing, so again it really doesn't need to be a high priority for
                  >> Uniden.
                  >> > LTR
                  >> > systems are getting fewer and fewer and the number of public safety
                  >> users
                  >> > is
                  >> > dropping as well. I know of just one in Indiana that uses it and it's
                  >> > really
                  >> > useless for big incidents as that county learned the hard way. They
                  >> > have
                  >> > been investigateing other systems now to see whats going to work
                  >> best for
                  >> > them and will dropping the LTR system as it is too limited for public
                  >> > safety. And thats another reason I doubt Uniden will waste research
                  >> time
                  >> > on
                  >> > something thats just not used that much for public safety, and most
                  >> > scanner
                  >> > users don't use them for business monitoring. I do on occasion, but not
                  >> > enough to waste Unidens time, I'd prefer they work on more important
                  >> > things..... and thats a long list :)
                  >> >
                  >> > John
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > ----- Original Message -----
                  >> > From: "torontokris" <torontokris@...
                  >> <mailto:torontokris%40yahoo.com>>
                  >> > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  >> > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:48 AM
                  >> > Subject: [BCD396XT] Re: LTR Capabilities
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >> John yes it works for LTR & EDACS but he wants to find out the LCN's
                  >> >> without programming in the whole system. Say if he only knew one
                  >> >> frequency
                  >> >> and held on it to get the LCN's from the scanner.
                  >> >>
                  >> >> Terry have you tried the LTR analyzer program? May not work for
                  >> what you
                  >> >> need but try
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >> --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                  >> <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>, "johnstark" <johnstark@...> wrote:
                  >> >>>
                  >> >>> Never had a problem listening to LTR or EDACS on the 396T
                  >> >>>
                  >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> >>> From: "Terry (SC21)" <RadioReference@...>
                  >> >>> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:28 PM
                  >> >>> Subject: [BCD396XT] LTR Capabilities
                  >> >>>
                  >> >>>
                  >> >>> > UPMan...
                  >> >>> >
                  >> >>> > Will there be in this radio or ever any in Uniden radios, the
                  >> support
                  >> >>> > to
                  >> >>> > be able to monitor LTR & EDACS frequencies and be able to obtain
                  >> >>> > the
                  >> >>> > LCN
                  >> >>> > via simply monitoring the frequency?
                  >> >>> >
                  >> >>> > This is a great feature on GREs and would love to see it on
                  >> >>> > Unidens.
                  >> >>> >
                  >> >>> > If you need a better explanation, please ask.
                  >> >>> >
                  >> >>> > Thanks
                  >> >>> >
                  >> >>
                  >>
                  >> __._,_._
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



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