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Re: [BCD396XT] MPT System

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  • MCH
    One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed for Uniden *America* which is North America only. Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 21, 2009
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      One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
      for Uniden *America* which is North America only.

      Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).

      Joe M.

      Wayne wrote:
      > According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new high end trunking scanner.
      >
      > http://www.mpt1327-usa.org/introduction.htm
      >
      > http://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=countries+that+use+mpt+trunking&meta=&btnG=Google+Search
      >
      >
      > Regards
      > Wayne
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Mike Iszak
      MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well However, MPT is based on a one to one model as opposed to a one to many model which is what LTR, EDACS,
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 21, 2009
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        MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well

        However,
        MPT is based on a "one to one" model as opposed to a "one to many"
        model which is what LTR, EDACS, SmartNET/Zone and so on are based on

        Because of this, tracking groups isn't as easy as it is with other
        systems.

        To put it in more common use, imagine a SmartNet system using private
        calls for the majority of calls, with group calls just being many
        private calls stacked together
        Not the most convenient way to do business...

        Sent from my iPod

        On 21-Jan-09, at 18:04, MCH <mch@...> wrote:

        > One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
        > for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
        >
        > Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
        >
        > Joe M.
        >
        > Wayne wrote:
        > > According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is
        > used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk
        > of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new
        > high end trunking scanner.
        > >
        > > http://www.mpt1327-usa.org/introduction.htm
        > >
        > > http://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=countries+that+use+mpt+trunking&meta=&btnG=Google+Search
        > >
        > >
        > > Regards
        > > Wayne
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • MCH
        Yes, there are a few systems, but enough to justify the R&D of adding it? I doubt it. It would be much more logical for Uniden Europe (or whatever they are
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 21, 2009
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          Yes, there are a few systems, but enough to justify the R&D of adding
          it? I doubt it. It would be much more logical for Uniden Europe (or
          whatever they are called) to foot the cost of development for it since
          it would be used much more there - just as Uniden America footed the
          bill for P25 and many other features. I bet they footed the bill for
          most of the current lineup which was of benefit to all the Uniden
          divisions. IOW, is everyone else benefiting from Uniden America's work?
          Or is Uniden Japan doing all the work for everyone and making decisions
          based upon sales figures as to whose want list gets priority?

          MPT1327 would be nice, but the demand just isn't there in North America.
          There is much more demand for Open Sky (3 statewide systems at the
          peak), and that isn't happening either. Granted, OS is proprietary, and
          I *think* MPT is an open standard. Still, it likely costs money
          somewhere over and above the R&D costs.

          Also, given the current economic conditions, I doubt there are many
          companies willing to put a lot of resources into something that most
          people could care less about and would never use. I think most of the
          systems in North America are in Canada, and I've never noticed that
          Canada is a big importer of any of the Uniden models. Sure, there are
          some users there, but I bet it's in the lower single digit percentages.
          In short, Uniden America is going to go with that gets them the most
          return on their investment, and sorry to say I bet MPT just isn't where
          that is.

          I also understand that Uniden Europe isn't that responsive, but there is
          little Uniden America can do about that - especially if they have
          internal agreements to not intentionally "tramp on each other's toes".
          If Uniden Europe isn't responsive, write letters to Uniden Japan or ask
          them to include MPT. IF they see enough support, they should add it.

          Joe M.

          Mike Iszak wrote:
          > MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well
          >
          > However,
          > MPT is based on a "one to one" model as opposed to a "one to many"
          > model which is what LTR, EDACS, SmartNET/Zone and so on are based on
          >
          > Because of this, tracking groups isn't as easy as it is with other
          > systems.
          >
          > To put it in more common use, imagine a SmartNet system using private
          > calls for the majority of calls, with group calls just being many
          > private calls stacked together
          > Not the most convenient way to do business...
          >
          > Sent from my iPod
          >
          > On 21-Jan-09, at 18:04, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
          >
          >> One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
          >> for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
          >>
          >> Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
          >>
          >> Joe M.
          >>
          >> Wayne wrote:
          >>> According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is
          >> used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk
          >> of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new
          >> high end trunking scanner.
          >>> http://www.mpt1327-usa.org/introduction.htm
          >>>
          >>> http://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=countries+that+use+mpt+trunking&meta=&btnG=Google+Search
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Regards
          >>> Wayne
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> ------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • MRI
          We have been trying to get uniden eeurope to make one but no one can contact them. Come on uniden america think of the rest of the world
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
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            We have been trying to get uniden eeurope to make one but no one can contact them. Come on uniden america think of the rest of the world

            Wayne wrote:
            > According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new high end trunking scanner.
            > http://www.mpt1327- usa.org/introduc tion.htm
            > http://www.google. com.au/search? client=firefox- a&rls=org. mozilla%3Aen- US%3Aofficial& channel=s& hl=en&q=countrie s+that+use+ mpt+trunking& meta=&btnG= Google+Search
            > Regards
            > Wayne
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • MRI
            No reason why it cant be implemented though seeing as there are some users in the states. Also what about Mototrbo decoding whilst we are here?
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
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              No reason why it cant be implemented though seeing as there are some users in the states. Also what about Mototrbo decoding whilst we are here?

              MCH wrote:
              > One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
              > for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
              > Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
              > Joe M.
              > Wayne wrote:
              >> According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new high end trunking scanner.
              >>
              >> http://www.mpt1327- usa.org/introduc tion.htm
              >>
              >> http://www.google. com.au/search? client=firefox- a&rls=org. mozilla%3Aen- US%3Aofficial& channel=s& hl=en&q=countrie s+that+use+ mpt+trunking& meta=&btnG= Google+Search
              >>
              >>
              >> Regards
              >> Wayne
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
            • MRI
              I can assure you most are group calls
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
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                I can assure you most are group calls

                Mike Iszak wrote:
                > MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well
                > However,
                > MPT is based on a "one to one" model as opposed to a "one to many"
                > model which is what LTR, EDACS, SmartNET/Zone and so on are based on
                > Because of this, tracking groups isn't as easy as it is with other
                > systems.
                > To put it in more common use, imagine a SmartNet system using private
                > calls for the majority of calls, with group calls just being many
                > private calls stacked together
                > Not the most convenient way to do business...
                > Sent from my iPod
                > On 21-Jan-09, at 18:04, MCH < mch@... > wrote:
                >> One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
                >> for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
                >>
                >> Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
                >>
                >> Joe M.
                >>
                >> Wayne wrote:
                >> > According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is
                >> used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk
                >> of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new
                >> high end trunking scanner.
                >> >
                >> > http://www.mpt1327- usa.org/introduc tion.htm
                >> >
                >> > http://www.google. com.au/search? client=firefox- a&rls=org. mozilla%3Aen- US%3Aofficial& channel=s& hl=en&q=countrie s+that+use+ mpt+trunking& meta=&btnG= Google+Search
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Regards
                >> > Wayne
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >> >
                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >>
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • MRI
                Well i am surprised at your response as bcTool was created for uk users and did we complain when you wanted us features added? No we did not we let it all go
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
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                  Well i am surprised at your response as bcTool was created for uk users and did we complain when you wanted us features added? No we did not we let it all go ahead as we were happy for it to work for everyone.
                  Melv

                  MCH wrote:
                  > Yes, there are a few systems, but enough to justify the R&D of adding
                  > it? I doubt it. It would be much more logical for Uniden Europe (or
                  > whatever they are called) to foot the cost of development for it since
                  > it would be used much more there - just as Uniden America footed the
                  > bill for P25 and many other features. I bet they footed the bill for
                  > most of the current lineup which was of benefit to all the Uniden
                  > divisions. IOW, is everyone else benefiting from Uniden America's work?
                  > Or is Uniden Japan doing all the work for everyone and making decisions
                  > based upon sales figures as to whose want list gets priority?
                  > MPT1327 would be nice, but the demand just isn't there in North America.
                  > There is much more demand for Open Sky (3 statewide systems at the
                  > peak), and that isn't happening either. Granted, OS is proprietary, and
                  > I *think* MPT is an open standard. Still, it likely costs money
                  > somewhere over and above the R&D costs.
                  > Also, given the current economic conditions, I doubt there are many
                  > companies willing to put a lot of resources into something that most
                  > people could care less about and would never use. I think most of the
                  > systems in North America are in Canada, and I've never noticed that
                  > Canada is a big importer of any of the Uniden models. Sure, there are
                  > some users there, but I bet it's in the lower single digit percentages.
                  > In short, Uniden America is going to go with that gets them the most
                  > return on their investment, and sorry to say I bet MPT just isn't where
                  > that is.
                  > I also understand that Uniden Europe isn't that responsive, but there is
                  > little Uniden America can do about that - especially if they have
                  > internal agreements to not intentionally "tramp on each other's toes".
                  > If Uniden Europe isn't responsive, write letters to Uniden Japan or ask
                  > them to include MPT. IF they see enough support, they should add it.
                  > Joe M.
                  > Mike Iszak wrote:
                  >> MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well
                  >>
                  >> However,
                  >> MPT is based on a "one to one" model as opposed to a "one to many"
                  >> model which is what LTR, EDACS, SmartNET/Zone and so on are based on
                  >>
                  >> Because of this, tracking groups isn't as easy as it is with other
                  >> systems.
                  >>
                  >> To put it in more common use, imagine a SmartNet system using private
                  >> calls for the majority of calls, with group calls just being many
                  >> private calls stacked together
                  >> Not the most convenient way to do business...
                  >>
                  >> Sent from my iPod
                  >>
                  >> On 21-Jan-09, at 18:04, MCH < mch@... > wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
                  >>> for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
                  >>>
                  >>> Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
                  >>>
                  >>> Joe M.
                  >>>
                  >>> Wayne wrote:
                  >>>> According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is
                  >>> used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk
                  >>> of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new
                  >>> high end trunking scanner.
                  >>>> http://www.mpt1327- usa.org/introduc tion.htm
                  >>>>
                  >>>> http://www.google. com.au/search? client=firefox- a&rls=org. mozilla%3Aen- US%3Aofficial& channel=s& hl=en&q=countrie s+that+use+ mpt+trunking& meta=&btnG= Google+Search
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Regards
                  >>>> Wayne
                  >>>>
                  >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                • MCH
                  bcTool was created due to issues with another product. Those issues exist worldwide. If Rob Parker had an American division and a UK division, I would not
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
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                    bcTool was created due to issues with another product. Those issues
                    exist worldwide. If Rob Parker had an American division and a UK
                    division, I would not argue that features that don't apply to the USA be
                    included in his USA products. You also have to consider that there are
                    more 'customers' in the USA than in Europe, and financially it made
                    sense for him to cater to that market. When it comes to the scanners,
                    the opposite is true. While there are many who want MPT support, it
                    pales in comparison to the USA market who doesn't want to pay more for a
                    feature that would be largely unused. Again, Uniden has a European
                    division that caters to the European market.

                    Fact is that Uniden has at least three divisions all with scanner
                    product responsibilities in different parts of the world. Each one I'm
                    sure has profit statements, and I doubt Uniden USA wants to compromise
                    theirs just to cater to worldwide markets. IOW, the return on the
                    investment likely isn't enough to justify the costs.

                    Again, if you write to Uniden's HQ, and there is enough support, they
                    should add it to their UK models (much like was done with Rob Parker
                    adding features to his products which happen to be for models worldwide).

                    It's odd to hear other parts of the world demanding involvement from USA
                    companies when many parts of the world want the USA to keep to ourselves
                    more and attack us when we don't. Of course the UK is more civilized
                    than some parts of the world. :-)

                    Joe M.

                    MRI wrote:
                    > Well i am surprised at your response as bcTool was created for uk users and did we complain when you wanted us features added? No we did not we let it all go ahead as we were happy for it to work for everyone.
                    > Melv
                    >
                    > MCH wrote:
                    >> Yes, there are a few systems, but enough to justify the R&D of adding
                    >> it? I doubt it. It would be much more logical for Uniden Europe (or
                    >> whatever they are called) to foot the cost of development for it since
                    >> it would be used much more there - just as Uniden America footed the
                    >> bill for P25 and many other features. I bet they footed the bill for
                    >> most of the current lineup which was of benefit to all the Uniden
                    >> divisions. IOW, is everyone else benefiting from Uniden America's work?
                    >> Or is Uniden Japan doing all the work for everyone and making decisions
                    >> based upon sales figures as to whose want list gets priority?
                    >> MPT1327 would be nice, but the demand just isn't there in North America.
                    >> There is much more demand for Open Sky (3 statewide systems at the
                    >> peak), and that isn't happening either. Granted, OS is proprietary, and
                    >> I *think* MPT is an open standard. Still, it likely costs money
                    >> somewhere over and above the R&D costs.
                    >> Also, given the current economic conditions, I doubt there are many
                    >> companies willing to put a lot of resources into something that most
                    >> people could care less about and would never use. I think most of the
                    >> systems in North America are in Canada, and I've never noticed that
                    >> Canada is a big importer of any of the Uniden models. Sure, there are
                    >> some users there, but I bet it's in the lower single digit percentages.
                    >> In short, Uniden America is going to go with that gets them the most
                    >> return on their investment, and sorry to say I bet MPT just isn't where
                    >> that is.
                    >> I also understand that Uniden Europe isn't that responsive, but there is
                    >> little Uniden America can do about that - especially if they have
                    >> internal agreements to not intentionally "tramp on each other's toes".
                    >> If Uniden Europe isn't responsive, write letters to Uniden Japan or ask
                    >> them to include MPT. IF they see enough support, they should add it.
                    >> Joe M.
                    >> Mike Iszak wrote:
                    >>> MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well
                    >>>
                    >>> However,
                    >>> MPT is based on a "one to one" model as opposed to a "one to many"
                    >>> model which is what LTR, EDACS, SmartNET/Zone and so on are based on
                    >>>
                    >>> Because of this, tracking groups isn't as easy as it is with other
                    >>> systems.
                    >>>
                    >>> To put it in more common use, imagine a SmartNet system using private
                    >>> calls for the majority of calls, with group calls just being many
                    >>> private calls stacked together
                    >>> Not the most convenient way to do business...
                    >>>
                    >>> Sent from my iPod
                    >>>
                    >>> On 21-Jan-09, at 18:04, MCH < mch@... > wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>>> One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
                    >>>> for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Joe M.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Wayne wrote:
                    >>>>> According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is
                    >>>> used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk
                    >>>> of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new
                    >>>> high end trunking scanner.
                    >>>>> http://www.mpt1327- usa.org/introduc tion.htm
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> http://www.google. com.au/search? client=firefox- a&rls=org. mozilla%3Aen- US%3Aofficial& channel=s& hl=en&q=countrie s+that+use+ mpt+trunking& meta=&btnG= Google+Search
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Regards
                    >>>>> Wayne
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>
                    >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                    >>>
                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • MCH
                    Proprietary. Likely Motorola would want too much to sell the format rights. Again, it s all about getting your money back from your investment, and a great
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
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                      Proprietary. Likely Motorola would want too much to sell the format
                      rights. Again, it's all about getting your money back from your
                      investment, and a great example of how this isn't a UK vs USA issue.

                      There are many more OpenSky users in the USA, but that too is
                      proprietary and may not provide enough return on the licensing
                      investment. D-STAR is another popular format for the ham bands, but
                      again same argument - you likely won't sell enough *additional* units to
                      make the investment pay off. The bean counters would simply kill the
                      feature in favor of a higher profit.

                      It's all about making money.

                      Joe M.

                      MRI wrote:
                      > No reason why it cant be implemented though seeing as there are some users in the states. Also what about Mototrbo decoding whilst we are here?
                    • johnstark
                      Melv, There is a big difference between a radio system and software. As for MPT systems there probably isn t a state with more than 12 in the entire state, and
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Melv,

                        There is a big difference between a radio system and software. As for MPT
                        systems there probably isn't a state with more than 12 in the entire state,
                        and none are public safety. It doesn't make sense for Uniden America to
                        support a non-public safety system that some states don't even have at all.
                        Unidens divisions each have their priorities, they have nothing to do with
                        Rob or BCTool, Rob made the decision to have BCTool support across multiple
                        versions of the Uniden scanner, for him it made sense as there was a market,
                        free or not I'm sure the donations went up when he began supporting the US
                        market.
                        Basically the MPT situation needs to be dealt with the Uniden divisions
                        outside the US, the American market has no real use for it since very few
                        businesses use it..... You want it on the Ausie or Euro scanners then
                        complain to the appropriate divisions, complaing to Uniden America will just
                        get ignored.

                        John


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "MRI" <freqsniffer@...>
                        To: "MCH" <mch@...>
                        Cc: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:08 AM
                        Subject: RE: Re: [BCD396XT] MPT System


                        > Well i am surprised at your response as bcTool was created for uk users
                        > and did we complain when you wanted us features added? No we did not we
                        > let it all go ahead as we were happy for it to work for everyone.
                        > Melv
                        >
                      • MRI
                        Joe i can see your point however we were not demanding anything just requesting. Uniden europe are nowhere to be found and do not wish to be contacted it
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
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                          Joe i can see your point however we were not demanding anything just requesting. Uniden europe are nowhere to be found and do not wish to be contacted it seems. You have great support in the us we dont. I usually buy us spec unidens anyway as euro versions always lack something. Anyway i will say no more on the subject.
                          Melv

                          MCH wrote:
                          > bcTool was created due to issues with another product. Those issues
                          > exist worldwide. If Rob Parker had an American division and a UK
                          > division, I would not argue that features that don't apply to the USA be
                          > included in his USA products. You also have to consider that there are
                          > more 'customers' in the USA than in Europe, and financially it made
                          > sense for him to cater to that market. When it comes to the scanners,
                          > the opposite is true. While there are many who want MPT support, it
                          > pales in comparison to the USA market who doesn't want to pay more for a
                          > feature that would be largely unused. Again, Uniden has a European
                          > division that caters to the European market.
                          > Fact is that Uniden has at least three divisions all with scanner
                          > product responsibilities in different parts of the world. Each one I'm
                          > sure has profit statements, and I doubt Uniden USA wants to compromise
                          > theirs just to cater to worldwide markets. IOW, the return on the
                          > investment likely isn't enough to justify the costs.
                          > Again, if you write to Uniden's HQ, and there is enough support, they
                          > should add it to their UK models (much like was done with Rob Parker
                          > adding features to his products which happen to be for models worldwide).
                          > It's odd to hear other parts of the world demanding involvement from USA
                          > companies when many parts of the world want the USA to keep to ourselves
                          > more and attack us when we don't. Of course the UK is more civilized
                          > than some parts of the world. :-)
                          > Joe M.
                          > MRI wrote:
                          >> Well i am surprised at your response as bcTool was created for uk users and did we complain when you wanted us features added? No we did not we let it all go ahead as we were happy for it to work for everyone.
                          >> Melv
                          >>
                          >> MCH wrote:
                          >>> Yes, there are a few systems, but enough to justify the R&D of adding
                          >>> it? I doubt it. It would be much more logical for Uniden Europe (or
                          >>> whatever they are called) to foot the cost of development for it since
                          >>> it would be used much more there - just as Uniden America footed the
                          >>> bill for P25 and many other features. I bet they footed the bill for
                          >>> most of the current lineup which was of benefit to all the Uniden
                          >>> divisions. IOW, is everyone else benefiting from Uniden America's work?
                          >>> Or is Uniden Japan doing all the work for everyone and making decisions
                          >>> based upon sales figures as to whose want list gets priority?
                          >>> MPT1327 would be nice, but the demand just isn't there in North America.
                          >>> There is much more demand for Open Sky (3 statewide systems at the
                          >>> peak), and that isn't happening either. Granted, OS is proprietary, and
                          >>> I *think* MPT is an open standard. Still, it likely costs money
                          >>> somewhere over and above the R&D costs.
                          >>> Also, given the current economic conditions, I doubt there are many
                          >>> companies willing to put a lot of resources into something that most
                          >>> people could care less about and would never use. I think most of the
                          >>> systems in North America are in Canada, and I've never noticed that
                          >>> Canada is a big importer of any of the Uniden models. Sure, there are
                          >>> some users there, but I bet it's in the lower single digit percentages.
                          >>> In short, Uniden America is going to go with that gets them the most
                          >>> return on their investment, and sorry to say I bet MPT just isn't where
                          >>> that is.
                          >>> I also understand that Uniden Europe isn't that responsive, but there is
                          >>> little Uniden America can do about that - especially if they have
                          >>> internal agreements to not intentionally "tramp on each other's toes".
                          >>> If Uniden Europe isn't responsive, write letters to Uniden Japan or ask
                          >>> them to include MPT. IF they see enough support, they should add it.
                          >>> Joe M.
                          >>> Mike Iszak wrote:
                          >>>> MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well
                          >>>>
                          >>>> However,
                          >>>> MPT is based on a "one to one" model as opposed to a "one to many"
                          >>>> model which is what LTR, EDACS, SmartNET/Zone and so on are based on
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Because of this, tracking groups isn't as easy as it is with other
                          >>>> systems.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> To put it in more common use, imagine a SmartNet system using private
                          >>>> calls for the majority of calls, with group calls just being many
                          >>>> private calls stacked together
                          >>>> Not the most convenient way to do business...
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Sent from my iPod
                          >>>>
                          >>>> On 21-Jan-09, at 18:04, MCH < mch@... > wrote:
                          >>>>
                          >>>>> One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
                          >>>>> for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Joe M.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Wayne wrote:
                          >>>>>> According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is
                          >>>>> used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk
                          >>>>> of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new
                          >>>>> high end trunking scanner.
                          >>>>>> http://www.mpt1327- usa.org/introduc tion.htm
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> http://www.google. com.au/search? client=firefox- a&rls=org. mozilla%3Aen- US%3Aofficial& channel=s& hl=en&q=countrie s+that+use+ mpt+trunking& meta=&btnG= Google+Search
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> Regards
                          >>>>>> Wayne
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                        • MRI
                          Ok again you have valid points but I Must tell you this. Rob told me that the worst people for making donations were people in the us. I know he does not take
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ok again you have valid points but I Must tell you this. Rob told me that the worst people for making donations were people in the us. I know he does not take it personally as he is too nice a man but thought i needed to clear up a point you made.
                            Melv

                            johnstark wrote:
                            > Melv,
                            > There is a big difference between a radio system and software. As for MPT
                            > systems there probably isn't a state with more than 12 in the entire state,
                            > and none are public safety. It doesn't make sense for Uniden America to
                            > support a non-public safety system that some states don't even have at all.
                            > Unidens divisions each have their priorities, they have nothing to do with
                            > Rob or BCTool, Rob made the decision to have BCTool support across multiple
                            > versions of the Uniden scanner, for him it made sense as there was a market,
                            > free or not I'm sure the donations went up when he began supporting the US
                            > market.
                            > Basically the MPT situation needs to be dealt with the Uniden divisions
                            > outside the US, the American market has no real use for it since very few
                            > businesses use it..... You want it on the Ausie or Euro scanners then
                            > complain to the appropriate divisions, complaing to Uniden America will just
                            > get ignored.
                            > John
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "MRI" < freqsniffer@ yahoo.com >
                            > To: "MCH" < mch@... >
                            > Cc: < BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com >
                            > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:08 AM
                            > Subject: RE: Re: [BCD396XT] MPT System
                            >> Well i am surprised at your response as bcTool was created for uk users
                            >> and did we complain when you wanted us features added? No we did not we
                            >> let it all go ahead as we were happy for it to work for everyone.
                            >> Melv
                            >>
                            >
                          • Jason W. Watts
                            Joe, You talk about OpenSky. One major potential user has actually backed out of the contract due to failures (New York State). I also hear about the
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Joe,

                              You talk about OpenSky. One major potential user has actually backed out of the contract due to failures (New York State). I also hear about the shortcomings of the Milwaukee City OpenSky System a lot.

                              Do you know of any agency that has successfully deployed an OpenSky System?

                              I would love to have the ability to scan an OpenSky system, regardless. I would love to also see Uniden look into ProVoice since EDACS users have that option. In Iowa, we have users of ProVoice in the Des Moines Metro Area as well as some users to the north of Cedar Rapids. They utilize the RACOM system.

                              The only MPT system anywhere near here would be the Basin Electric Power Cooperative in North Dakota. They have a few sites in NW Iowa. With what you say about how many MPT systems there are nationwide, and the fact that none of them are really public safety-related.......I would certainly agree it is not worth Uniden USA's investing in research and development to equip a scanner with this trunking protocol.



                              Jason W. Watts
                              Cedar Rapids, Iowa
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: MCH
                              To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 08:20
                              Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] MPT System


                              Proprietary. Likely Motorola would want too much to sell the format
                              rights. Again, it's all about getting your money back from your
                              investment, and a great example of how this isn't a UK vs USA issue.

                              There are many more OpenSky users in the USA, but that too is
                              proprietary and may not provide enough return on the licensing
                              investment. D-STAR is another popular format for the ham bands, but
                              again same argument - you likely won't sell enough *additional* units to
                              make the investment pay off. The bean counters would simply kill the
                              feature in favor of a higher profit.

                              It's all about making money.

                              Joe M.

                              MRI wrote:
                              > No reason why it cant be implemented though seeing as there are some users in the states. Also what about Mototrbo decoding whilst we are here?




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jeremy Neal
                              How about Las Vegas Metro PD? Jeremy ... Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry at 11:57 PST ... From: Jason W. Watts Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                How about Las Vegas Metro PD?

                                Jeremy
                                ---
                                Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry at 11:57 PST

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: "Jason W. Watts" <KB0KGH@...>

                                Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:31:34
                                To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] MPT System


                                Joe,

                                You talk about OpenSky. One major potential user has actually backed out of the contract due to failures (New York State). I also hear about the shortcomings of the Milwaukee City OpenSky System a lot.

                                Do you know of any agency that has successfully deployed an OpenSky System?

                                I would love to have the ability to scan an OpenSky system, regardless. I would love to also see Uniden look into ProVoice since EDACS users have that option. In Iowa, we have users of ProVoice in the Des Moines Metro Area as well as some users to the north of Cedar Rapids. They utilize the RACOM system.

                                The only MPT system anywhere near here would be the Basin Electric Power Cooperative in North Dakota. They have a few sites in NW Iowa. With what you say about how many MPT systems there are nationwide, and the fact that none of them are really public safety-related.......I would certainly agree it is not worth Uniden USA's investing in research and development to equip a scanner with this trunking protocol.



                                Jason W. Watts
                                Cedar Rapids, Iowa
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: MCH
                                To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 08:20
                                Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] MPT System


                                Proprietary. Likely Motorola would want too much to sell the format
                                rights. Again, it's all about getting your money back from your
                                investment, and a great example of how this isn't a UK vs USA issue.

                                There are many more OpenSky users in the USA, but that too is
                                proprietary and may not provide enough return on the licensing
                                investment. D-STAR is another popular format for the ham bands, but
                                again same argument - you likely won't sell enough *additional* units to
                                make the investment pay off. The bean counters would simply kill the
                                feature in favor of a higher profit.

                                It's all about making money.

                                Joe M.

                                MRI wrote:
                                > No reason why it cant be implemented though seeing as there are some users in the states. Also what about Mototrbo decoding whilst we are here?




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                ------------------------------------

                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • MCH
                                Threaded... ... I know - that s why I said at their peak previously. ;- There is also a PA county that has made a demand that they be moved back to their
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Threaded...

                                  Jason W. Watts wrote:
                                  > Joe,
                                  >
                                  > You talk about OpenSky. One major potential user has actually backed out of the contract due to failures (New York State).

                                  I know - that's why I said 'at their peak' previously. ;->

                                  There is also a PA county that has made a demand that they be moved back
                                  to their old system.

                                  Last I heard PA is looking for a scape goat to blame for that fiasco.

                                  > Do you know of any agency that has successfully deployed an OpenSky System?

                                  Frankly, no. Regardless, there is much more demand for OS than MPT in
                                  the USA. That was my only point.

                                  Joe M.
                                • MCH
                                  And I understand and sympathize with your point. But, the way to solve the problem is not by hiding the symptom. Get hold of Uniden Japan and complain to them.
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 22, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    And I understand and sympathize with your point.

                                    But, the way to solve the problem is not by hiding the symptom. Get hold
                                    of Uniden Japan and complain to them. Start a letter writing campaign to
                                    tell them that you like their products and want to see MPT added to
                                    their products in the European/Australian market.

                                    I can't say this enough - if enough people want the feature, and it's
                                    made beneficial to their bottom line, and they can get a license for the
                                    format, they should add any format.

                                    Joe M.

                                    MRI wrote:
                                    > Joe i can see your point however we were not demanding anything just requesting. Uniden europe are nowhere to be found and do not wish to be contacted it seems. You have great support in the us we dont. I usually buy us spec unidens anyway as euro versions always lack something. Anyway i will say no more on the subject.
                                    > Melv
                                    >
                                    > MCH wrote:
                                    >> bcTool was created due to issues with another product. Those issues
                                    >> exist worldwide. If Rob Parker had an American division and a UK
                                    >> division, I would not argue that features that don't apply to the USA be
                                    >> included in his USA products. You also have to consider that there are
                                    >> more 'customers' in the USA than in Europe, and financially it made
                                    >> sense for him to cater to that market. When it comes to the scanners,
                                    >> the opposite is true. While there are many who want MPT support, it
                                    >> pales in comparison to the USA market who doesn't want to pay more for a
                                    >> feature that would be largely unused. Again, Uniden has a European
                                    >> division that caters to the European market.
                                    >> Fact is that Uniden has at least three divisions all with scanner
                                    >> product responsibilities in different parts of the world. Each one I'm
                                    >> sure has profit statements, and I doubt Uniden USA wants to compromise
                                    >> theirs just to cater to worldwide markets. IOW, the return on the
                                    >> investment likely isn't enough to justify the costs.
                                    >> Again, if you write to Uniden's HQ, and there is enough support, they
                                    >> should add it to their UK models (much like was done with Rob Parker
                                    >> adding features to his products which happen to be for models worldwide).
                                    >> It's odd to hear other parts of the world demanding involvement from USA
                                    >> companies when many parts of the world want the USA to keep to ourselves
                                    >> more and attack us when we don't. Of course the UK is more civilized
                                    >> than some parts of the world. :-)
                                    >> Joe M.
                                    >> MRI wrote:
                                    >>> Well i am surprised at your response as bcTool was created for uk users and did we complain when you wanted us features added? No we did not we let it all go ahead as we were happy for it to work for everyone.
                                    >>> Melv
                                    >>>
                                    >>> MCH wrote:
                                    >>>> Yes, there are a few systems, but enough to justify the R&D of adding
                                    >>>> it? I doubt it. It would be much more logical for Uniden Europe (or
                                    >>>> whatever they are called) to foot the cost of development for it since
                                    >>>> it would be used much more there - just as Uniden America footed the
                                    >>>> bill for P25 and many other features. I bet they footed the bill for
                                    >>>> most of the current lineup which was of benefit to all the Uniden
                                    >>>> divisions. IOW, is everyone else benefiting from Uniden America's work?
                                    >>>> Or is Uniden Japan doing all the work for everyone and making decisions
                                    >>>> based upon sales figures as to whose want list gets priority?
                                    >>>> MPT1327 would be nice, but the demand just isn't there in North America.
                                    >>>> There is much more demand for Open Sky (3 statewide systems at the
                                    >>>> peak), and that isn't happening either. Granted, OS is proprietary, and
                                    >>>> I *think* MPT is an open standard. Still, it likely costs money
                                    >>>> somewhere over and above the R&D costs.
                                    >>>> Also, given the current economic conditions, I doubt there are many
                                    >>>> companies willing to put a lot of resources into something that most
                                    >>>> people could care less about and would never use. I think most of the
                                    >>>> systems in North America are in Canada, and I've never noticed that
                                    >>>> Canada is a big importer of any of the Uniden models. Sure, there are
                                    >>>> some users there, but I bet it's in the lower single digit percentages.
                                    >>>> In short, Uniden America is going to go with that gets them the most
                                    >>>> return on their investment, and sorry to say I bet MPT just isn't where
                                    >>>> that is.
                                    >>>> I also understand that Uniden Europe isn't that responsive, but there is
                                    >>>> little Uniden America can do about that - especially if they have
                                    >>>> internal agreements to not intentionally "tramp on each other's toes".
                                    >>>> If Uniden Europe isn't responsive, write letters to Uniden Japan or ask
                                    >>>> them to include MPT. IF they see enough support, they should add it.
                                    >>>> Joe M.
                                    >>>> Mike Iszak wrote:
                                    >>>>> MPT1327 is semi popular in North America as well
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> However,
                                    >>>>> MPT is based on a "one to one" model as opposed to a "one to many"
                                    >>>>> model which is what LTR, EDACS, SmartNET/Zone and so on are based on
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> Because of this, tracking groups isn't as easy as it is with other
                                    >>>>> systems.
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> To put it in more common use, imagine a SmartNet system using private
                                    >>>>> calls for the majority of calls, with group calls just being many
                                    >>>>> private calls stacked together
                                    >>>>> Not the most convenient way to do business...
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> Sent from my iPod
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> On 21-Jan-09, at 18:04, MCH < mch@... > wrote:
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>> One problem with that fact... the XT for this list is being developed
                                    >>>>>> for Uniden *America* which is North America only.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Maybe they will add it to the UBCD396XT (if they make one).
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Joe M.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Wayne wrote:
                                    >>>>>>> According to a quick search I've done on Google MPT trunking is
                                    >>>>>> used in 85 countries of the world I'd say that's a pretty big chunk
                                    >>>>>> of the world and a good reason for Uniden to include it in a new
                                    >>>>>> high end trunking scanner.
                                    >>>>>>> http://www.mpt1327- usa.org/introduc tion.htm
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> http://www.google. com.au/search? client=firefox- a&rls=org. mozilla%3Aen- US%3Aofficial& channel=s& hl=en&q=countrie s+that+use+ mpt+trunking& meta=&btnG= Google+Search
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> Regards
                                    >>>>>>> Wayne
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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