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Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II

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  • MCH
    Understood, but it s poorly worded since it says Phase I is analog. It should be saying that Phase I is digital but allows for radios to use analog non-P25
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 27, 2009
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      Understood, but it's poorly worded since it says Phase I is analog. It
      should be saying that Phase I is digital but allows for radios to use
      analog non-P25 channels. It also doesn't say that it allows for
      operation on 16 kHz analog channels, which most legacy systems are.

      It's no wonder with info like that people are mis-programming systems as
      P25 when they are not. The WIKI implies that they are P25 systems.

      Joe M.

      Clayton wrote:
      > What it is saying, as a part of the spec, is that a P25 radio will receive
      > and transmit digital or analog. Also they will do mixed mode, so it can be
      > programmed to receive digital and analog on the same channel. This makes a
      > P25 radio "interoperable" with "legacy" analog systems.
      >
      >
      >
      > Clayton
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of MCH
      > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 7:04 AM
      > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, the WIKI is wrong. P25 does not come in analog or mixed flavors.
      > It is 9600 digital only. There is no such thing as an analog P25 signal.
      >
      > Joe M.
      >
      > Mr. L. Harris wrote:
      >> answered my own question on wikipedia here it is for all to see from wiki
      >>
      >> P25 Phases
      >> P25-compliant technology is being deployed in several phases:
      >>
      >> Phase 1
      >> Phase 1 radio systems operate in 12.5 kHz analog, digital or mixed mode.
      > Phase 1 radios use Continuous 4 level FM (C4FM) modulation for digital
      > transmissions at 4800 baud and 2 bits per symbol, yielding 9600 bits per
      > second total channel throughput. Receivers designed for the C4FM standard
      > can also demodulate the "Compatible quadrature phase shift keying" (CQPSK)
      > standard, as the parameters of the CQPSK signal were chosen to yield the
      > same signal deviation at symbol time as C4FM while using only 6.25 kHz of
      > bandwidth.
      >>
      >>
      >> A hand-held Project 25 radio used in US systems.
      >> Vendors are currently shipping Phase 1 P25-compliant systems. These
      > systems involve standardized service and facility specifications, ensuring
      > that any manufacturers' compliant subscriber radio has access to the
      > services described in such specifications. Abilities include backward
      > compatibility and interoperability with other systems, across system
      > boundaries, and regardless of system infrastructure. In addition, the P25
      > suite of standards provides an open interface to the radio frequency (RF)
      > subsystem to facilitate interlinking of different vendors' systems.
      >> Phase 2
      >> To improve spectrum utilization, Phase 2 is currently under development
      > with concurrent work being done on 2-slot TDMA and FDMA (CQPSK) modulation
      > schemes. Phase II will use the AMBE vocoder to reduce the needed bitrate so
      > that one channel will only require 4800 bits per second.
      >> Significant attention is also paid to interoperability with legacy
      > equipment, interfacing between repeaters and other subsystems, roaming
      > capacity and spectral efficiency/channel reuse. In addition, Phase 2 work
      > involves console interfacing between repeaters and other subsystems, and
      > man-machine interfaces for console operators that would facilitate
      > centralized training, equipment transitions and personnel movement.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> _______________________________________________________
      >> Sometimes my life IS a jerry springer show!!
      >> L.H. Of Gladstone
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> --- On Thu, 11/26/09, David Nordmann <davidnordm@gmail.
      > <mailto:davidnordm%40gmail.com> com> wrote:
      >>
      >> From: David Nordmann <davidnordm@gmail. <mailto:davidnordm%40gmail.com>
      > com>
      >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
      >> To: BCD396XT@yahoogroup <mailto:BCD396XT%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
      >> Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:40 PM
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> What is Phase II?
      >>
      >> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 5:08 PM, kayi4cle <kayi4cle@comcast. net> wrote:
      >>
      >>> Would anyone please venture a guess as to whether the BCD396XT will be
      > able
      >>> to monitor a Project 25 system when Phase II occurs? Thanks.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >> ----------------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >>
      >> No virus found in this incoming message.
      >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      >> Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.83/2529 - Release Date: 11/26/09
      > 14:42:00
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Mr. L. Harris
      geeesh  please say this isnt so!! i dont have another 500 bucks to spend for another radio     ... From: MCH Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 28, 2009
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        geeesh  please say this isnt so!! i dont have another 500 bucks to spend for another radio




         
         

        --- On Thu, 11/26/09, MCH <mch@...> wrote:


        From: MCH <mch@...>
        Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
        To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:43 PM


         



        Unlikely, but not completely impossible.

        Joe M.

        kayi4cle wrote:
        > Would anyone please venture a guess as to whether the BCD396XT will be able to monitor a Project 25 system when Phase II occurs? Thanks.
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mr. L. Harris
        TDMA isnt that the same as cell?     ... From: MCH Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday,
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 28, 2009
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          TDMA isnt that the same as cell?



           
           

          --- On Thu, 11/26/09, MCH <mch@...> wrote:


          From: MCH <mch@...>
          Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
          To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:46 PM


           



          The next version of P25. It will use TDMA to allow for multiple users on
          the same frequency.

          Joe M.

          David Nordmann wrote:
          > What is Phase II?
          >
          > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 5:08 PM, kayi4cle <kayi4cle@comcast. net> wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> Would anyone please venture a guess as to whether the BCD396XT will be able
          >> to monitor a Project 25 system when Phase II occurs? Thanks.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jason W. Watts
          GSM cell phones, yes. CDMA cell phones, no. Jason W. Watts ... From: Mr. L. Harris To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 23:22
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 28, 2009
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            GSM cell phones, yes. CDMA cell phones, no.

            Jason W. Watts
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mr. L. Harris
            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 23:22
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II



            TDMA isnt that the same as cell?




            --- On Thu, 11/26/09, MCH <mch@...> wrote:

            From: MCH <mch@...>
            Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:46 PM



            The next version of P25. It will use TDMA to allow for multiple users on
            the same frequency.

            Joe M.

            David Nordmann wrote:
            > What is Phase II?
            >
            > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 5:08 PM, kayi4cle <kayi4cle@comcast. net> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >> Would anyone please venture a guess as to whether the BCD396XT will be able
            >> to monitor a Project 25 system when Phase II occurs? Thanks.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kayi4cle
            I think this only involves P25 systems, and hopefully it won t affect you or very many others anytime soon. Unfortunately, the system I care most about is P25
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 28, 2009
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              I think this only involves P25 systems, and hopefully it won't affect you or very many others anytime soon. Unfortunately, the system I care most about is P25 (with Phase II coming in a couple years). Since my next radio will be a Uniden handheld, it would help me to know what's in store for those in my boat (whether an upgrade to the current model is possible, or if a future model is planned).


              --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. L. Harris" <95_b-body_ss@...> wrote:
              >
              > geeesh.  please say this isnt so!! i dont have another 500 bucks to spend for another radio.
              >
              >
              > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: MCH <mch@...>
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
              > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:43 PM

              > Unlikely, but not completely impossible.
              >
              > Joe M.
              >
              > kayi4cle wrote:
              > > Would anyone please venture a guess as to whether the BCD396XT will be able to monitor a Project 25 system when Phase II occurs? Thanks.
              > >
            • MCH
              Actually, it won t be another $500, as your XT should be worth at least $400 when they come out and I would expect the new model that does Phase II (assuming
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
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                Actually, it won't be another $500, as your XT should be worth at least
                $400 when they come out and I would expect the new model that does Phase
                II (assuming it won't be possible in the XT) to be around the $500 mark.

                So, it will be approximately a $100 upgrade - less if you can get more
                for your XT.

                Keep in mind that many systems will likely stay with the existing P25
                format, so it's not as if all P25 systems will be upgraded - just as not
                all analog systems upgraded to P25.

                Joe M.

                Mr. L. Harris wrote:
                > geeesh please say this isnt so!! i dont have another 500 bucks to spend for another radio
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: MCH <mch@...>
                > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
                > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:43 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Unlikely, but not completely impossible.
                >
                > Joe M.
                >
                > kayi4cle wrote:
                >> Would anyone please venture a guess as to whether the BCD396XT will be able to monitor a Project 25 system when Phase II occurs? Thanks.
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.86/2533 - Release Date: 11/28/09 14:34:00
                >
              • Mr. L. Harris
                well your right i guess, as i sold my T on ebay to get the xt and it was about a hundred dollar upgrade _______________________________________________________
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
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                  well your right i guess, as i sold my T on ebay to get the xt and it was about a hundred dollar upgrade




                  _______________________________________________________
                   Sometimes my life IS a jerry springer show!!
                  L.H. Of Gladstone
                   
                   

                  --- On Sun, 11/29/09, MCH <mch@...> wrote:


                  From: MCH <mch@...>
                  Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
                  To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 8:44 AM


                   



                  Actually, it won't be another $500, as your XT should be worth at least
                  $400 when they come out and I would expect the new model that does Phase
                  II (assuming it won't be possible in the XT) to be around the $500 mark.

                  So, it will be approximately a $100 upgrade - less if you can get more
                  for your XT.

                  Keep in mind that many systems will likely stay with the existing P25
                  format, so it's not as if all P25 systems will be upgraded - just as not
                  all analog systems upgraded to P25.

                  Joe M.

                  Mr. L. Harris wrote:
                  > geeesh please say this isnt so!! i dont have another 500 bucks to spend for another radio
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Thu, 11/26/09, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: MCH <mch@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Project 25 Phase II
                  > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroup s.com
                  > Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:43 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Unlikely, but not completely impossible.
                  >
                  > Joe M.
                  >
                  > kayi4cle wrote:
                  >> Would anyone please venture a guess as to whether the BCD396XT will be able to monitor a Project 25 system when Phase II occurs? Thanks.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.86/2533 - Release Date: 11/28/09 14:34:00
                  >







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • kayi4cle
                  This makes perfectly good sense. Thanks very much for the positive and realistic perspective!
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
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                    This makes perfectly good sense. Thanks very much for the positive and realistic perspective!


                    --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Actually, it won't be another $500, as your XT should be worth at least
                    > $400 when they come out and I would expect the new model that does Phase
                    > II (assuming it won't be possible in the XT) to be around the $500 mark.
                    >
                    > So, it will be approximately a $100 upgrade - less if you can get more
                    > for your XT.
                    >
                    > Keep in mind that many systems will likely stay with the existing P25
                    > format, so it's not as if all P25 systems will be upgraded - just as not
                    > all analog systems upgraded to P25.
                    >
                    > Joe M.
                    >
                  • MCH
                    Another perspective: For those saying their systems will be upgrading to Phase II: This could be a good thing for the XT scanners if it s that easy. If the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
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                      Another perspective:

                      For those saying their systems will be upgrading to Phase II: This could
                      be a good thing for the XT scanners if it's that easy. If the radios can
                      be upgraded via firmware, there is a good change the XT scanners can be,
                      too.

                      Conversely, if the XT scanners will require different hardware, it is
                      likely that the existing radios would as well, which means it's much
                      less likely a system will convert to Phase II (hence less likely to need
                      another scanner).

                      Joe M.

                      kayi4cle wrote:
                      > This makes perfectly good sense. Thanks very much for the positive and realistic perspective!
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                      >> Actually, it won't be another $500, as your XT should be worth at least
                      >> $400 when they come out and I would expect the new model that does Phase
                      >> II (assuming it won't be possible in the XT) to be around the $500 mark.
                      >>
                      >> So, it will be approximately a $100 upgrade - less if you can get more
                      >> for your XT.
                      >>
                      >> Keep in mind that many systems will likely stay with the existing P25
                      >> format, so it's not as if all P25 systems will be upgraded - just as not
                      >> all analog systems upgraded to P25.
                      >>
                      >> Joe M.
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2535 - Release Date: 11/29/09 14:31:00
                      >
                    • john bucki
                      Thanks for clearing this up 500 bucks is alot this day and time john To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com From: mch@nb.net Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:34:42 -0500
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
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                        Thanks for clearing this up 500 bucks is alot this day and time


                        john







                        To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com
                        From: mch@...
                        Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:34:42 -0500
                        Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: Project 25 Phase II





                        Another perspective:

                        For those saying their systems will be upgrading to Phase II: This could
                        be a good thing for the XT scanners if it's that easy. If the radios can
                        be upgraded via firmware, there is a good change the XT scanners can be,
                        too.

                        Conversely, if the XT scanners will require different hardware, it is
                        likely that the existing radios would as well, which means it's much
                        less likely a system will convert to Phase II (hence less likely to need
                        another scanner).

                        Joe M.

                        kayi4cle wrote:
                        > This makes perfectly good sense. Thanks very much for the positive and realistic perspective!
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                        >> Actually, it won't be another $500, as your XT should be worth at least
                        >> $400 when they come out and I would expect the new model that does Phase
                        >> II (assuming it won't be possible in the XT) to be around the $500 mark.
                        >>
                        >> So, it will be approximately a $100 upgrade - less if you can get more
                        >> for your XT.
                        >>
                        >> Keep in mind that many systems will likely stay with the existing P25
                        >> format, so it's not as if all P25 systems will be upgraded - just as not
                        >> all analog systems upgraded to P25.
                        >>
                        >> Joe M.
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2535 - Release Date: 11/29/09 14:31:00
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • KB0KGH@mchsi.com
                        This is a good explanation. I know that Johnson County, Iowa is purchasing a P25IP system from Harris that can easily be upgraded to Phase II. If this is the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 29, 2009
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                          This is a good explanation. I know that Johnson County, Iowa is purchasing a P25IP system from Harris that can easily be upgraded to Phase II.

                          If this is the case as Joe has already mentioned, then it likely is as simple as a firmware upgrade.

                          I highly doubt Johnson County (Iowa City is the largest city, home of the University of Iowa) would buy a system and then shell out millions more later to upgrade.

                          They would have waited and purchased a Phase II system.



                          Jason W. Watts
                          Ottumwa, Iowa
                          Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: MCH <mch@...>
                          Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:34:42
                          To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Re: Project 25 Phase II

                          Another perspective:

                          For those saying their systems will be upgrading to Phase II: This could
                          be a good thing for the XT scanners if it's that easy. If the radios can
                          be upgraded via firmware, there is a good change the XT scanners can be,
                          too.

                          Conversely, if the XT scanners will require different hardware, it is
                          likely that the existing radios would as well, which means it's much
                          less likely a system will convert to Phase II (hence less likely to need
                          another scanner).

                          Joe M.

                          kayi4cle wrote:
                          > This makes perfectly good sense. Thanks very much for the positive and realistic perspective!
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com, MCH <mch@...> wrote:
                          >> Actually, it won't be another $500, as your XT should be worth at least
                          >> $400 when they come out and I would expect the new model that does Phase
                          >> II (assuming it won't be possible in the XT) to be around the $500 mark.
                          >>
                          >> So, it will be approximately a $100 upgrade - less if you can get more
                          >> for your XT.
                          >>
                          >> Keep in mind that many systems will likely stay with the existing P25
                          >> format, so it's not as if all P25 systems will be upgraded - just as not
                          >> all analog systems upgraded to P25.
                          >>
                          >> Joe M.
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2535 - Release Date: 11/29/09 14:31:00
                          >



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