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Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems

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  • MCH
    Given the price difference, I think the 396 does a great job. Much of that price difference is going to be due to the transmitting abilities of the XTS as well
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
      Given the price difference, I think the 396 does a great job. Much of
      that price difference is going to be due to the transmitting abilities
      of the XTS as well as some additional P25 VOCODER licensing fees, but
      still, for $500 the 396 holds it's own very well.

      The XTS does have better sensitivity, but that is to be expected of a
      unit designed for a specific band. You cannot compare that to the broad
      front end of a scanner.

      It's probably better that the 396 doesn't have more sensitivity - just
      ask any GRE scanner owner who travels into 'RF rich' areas. Their slight
      sensitivity advantage quickly becomes a disadvantage.

      Joe M.

      johnstark wrote:
      > Also you honestly cannot compare a
      > $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.
      >
      > John
    • johnstark
      Sloppy install to start with, and not fixing it during maintenance, gllobal warming is a joke in my book, and it won t affect the system other than needing
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
        Sloppy install to start with, and not fixing it during maintenance, gllobal
        warming is a joke in my book, and it won't affect the system other than
        needing better cooling in the summer. Kind of odd situation here with a P16
        statewide system last week where they had to put heaters at some microwave
        sites because they got too cold and failed.

        John


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Larry Koch" <larrykoch@...>
        To: <bcd396xt@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:21 AM
        Subject: RE: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems



        Good explanation John. I have the same problem as Peter described and I am
        also hoping that the XT will do better. I have tried every digital trunking
        scanner on the market (RS 2096, 96 - Uniden 996, 396 - PSR 600, 500) and had
        mixed results with them all.

        John, is the timing problem caused by sloppy maintenance, faulty design,
        poor manufacturing or global warming?



        To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.comFrom: johnstark@...: Wed, 21 Jan
        2009 11:00:44 -0500Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems



        As has been said before each P25 is supposed to be set up with specific
        timing, the problem is many systems are not set up within the specs and
        thats when you have decode problems, it's multiplied on a simulcast system.
        Additionally reception is differents too, lower power for the same, or more
        coverage. Antenna choice, even weather make huge differences in whether you
        get clean clear transmissions or not. Also you honestly cannot compare a
        $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.John----- Original
        Message ----- From: "Jason W. Watts, KB0KGH" <KB0KGH@...>To:
        <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:23 AMSubject:
        Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems> The 396 works fine on the
        Cedar Rapids Motorola Type II 3600 Digital TRS > that I use the 396 for. And
        it is a 2 site simulcast system. Now and then > it does have a hiccup, but
        it is very much usable.>> I have barely tested it on a P25 Standard 9600
        baud system. I was in the > Quad Cities on the Illinois side and it sounded
        garbled. I was on the move > in the vehicle, and couldn't really play around
        with settings much. Also, > it was STARCOM 21. I've heard of some problems
        with the system itself.>>> Jason Watts> Cedar Rapids, IA> --------------
        Original message from MCH <mch@...>: -------------- >> Threaded...>>
        Peter Elke wrote:>> My hope in that the Uniden development team move to an
        area with a P25>> simulcast system.>>>> I have been traveling around the
        country and testing the BCD396T in>> states where they are common. In my
        testing I compare the 396 (with>> firware v2.9 and 3.01) with ether an Astro
        Saber (Mot Type II Digital)>> or an XTS2500 (for 100% P25). What I found is
        that the the 396 works>> very well on single transmitter sites and is almost
        unusable in>> simulcast areas.>> That's odd. It works fine on my local P25
        simulcast system.>>> My testing was in Minneapolis, Detroit, New Orleans,
        Denver, Orange>> County, San Diego.>>>> It is amazing how the Motorola
        radios never hiccup and the 396 stops>> decoding even after playing with the
        "hold key" adjustments.>> Hold key adjustments? What version of firmware are
        you using? Although> my 396 has never sounded bad, it's possible that
        upgrades to the> firmware could have made a difference on the systems you
        mentioned.>> What's even more odd is that I have heard anomalies on my XTS
        portable> and XTL mobiles. Granted, the 396 will sometimes, too, but when
        the user> radios do it too, I doubt there is anything that would not do the
        same.>>> I am confident that if the development team lived near one of
        these>> sites (and lived with the results daily) they would discover how
        to>> mathematically work out the trick of multipath decoding.>>>> If they
        get this right I will buy both a 396XT and a 996XT and stop>> lugging single
        band portables around with me on planes.>> Again, maybe the answer is that
        it's already been done and you simply> haven't bothered to install the
        upgrades. You've described doing things> that you cannot do with the latest
        firmware.>> Joe M.>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
        removed]>>> ------------------------------------>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>>





        _________________________________________________________________
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        http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      • johnstark
        I own a PSR 600 and don t see an overload issue, but then I don t use cheap coax too, which I believe makes a huge difference. As a test I used a regular $29
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
          I own a PSR 600 and don't see an overload issue, but then I don't use cheap
          coax too, which I believe makes a huge difference. As a test I used a
          regular $29 CB antenna and it's built in coax and then my own coax and
          antenna, the cheap junk got lots of interference while my setup using thin
          LMR400 got none. I'd say the coax is a major contributor to problems.
          Another thing I found was that with the car running, or even the key on I
          got more noise as well, the cheap stuff was picking up the electrical noise
          of the car.

          John


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "MCH" <mch@...>
          To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems


          > Given the price difference, I think the 396 does a great job. Much of
          > that price difference is going to be due to the transmitting abilities
          > of the XTS as well as some additional P25 VOCODER licensing fees, but
          > still, for $500 the 396 holds it's own very well.
          >
          > The XTS does have better sensitivity, but that is to be expected of a
          > unit designed for a specific band. You cannot compare that to the broad
          > front end of a scanner.
          >
          > It's probably better that the 396 doesn't have more sensitivity - just
          > ask any GRE scanner owner who travels into 'RF rich' areas. Their slight
          > sensitivity advantage quickly becomes a disadvantage.
          >
          > Joe M.
          >
          > johnstark wrote:
          >> Also you honestly cannot compare a
          >> $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.
          >>
          >> John
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • johnstark
          The biggest issue, and it has been stated by Upman in the past is that the scanners are built to use the SPECIFIED timing for P25 systems, the problem is many
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
            The biggest issue, and it has been stated by Upman in the past is that the
            scanners are built to use the SPECIFIED timing for P25 systems, the problem
            is many of the systems aren't actually using that specification and then
            decoding is an issue. I don't see any scanner being able to "fix" that, it's
            up to the radio system techs to bring them into spec, not Uniden or GRE for
            that matter.

            John


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Larry Koch" <larrykoch@...>
            To: <bcd396xt@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:21 AM
            Subject: RE: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems



            Good explanation John. I have the same problem as Peter described and I am
            also hoping that the XT will do better. I have tried every digital trunking
            scanner on the market (RS 2096, 96 - Uniden 996, 396 - PSR 600, 500) and had
            mixed results with them all.

            John, is the timing problem caused by sloppy maintenance, faulty design,
            poor manufacturing or global warming?



            To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.comFrom: johnstark@...: Wed, 21 Jan
            2009 11:00:44 -0500Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems



            As has been said before each P25 is supposed to be set up with specific
            timing, the problem is many systems are not set up within the specs and
            thats when you have decode problems, it's multiplied on a simulcast system.
            Additionally reception is differents too, lower power for the same, or more
            coverage. Antenna choice, even weather make huge differences in whether you
            get clean clear transmissions or not. Also you honestly cannot compare a
            $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.John----- Original
            Message ----- From: "Jason W. Watts, KB0KGH" <KB0KGH@...>To:
            <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:23 AMSubject:
            Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems> The 396 works fine on the
            Cedar Rapids Motorola Type II 3600 Digital TRS > that I use the 396 for. And
            it is a 2 site simulcast system. Now and then > it does have a hiccup, but
            it is very much usable.>> I have barely tested it on a P25 Standard 9600
            baud system. I was in the > Quad Cities on the Illinois side and it sounded
            garbled. I was on the move > in the vehicle, and couldn't really play around
            with settings much. Also, > it was STARCOM 21. I've heard of some problems
            with the system itself.>>> Jason Watts> Cedar Rapids, IA> --------------
            Original message from MCH <mch@...>: -------------- >> Threaded...>>
            Peter Elke wrote:>> My hope in that the Uniden development team move to an
            area with a P25>> simulcast system.>>>> I have been traveling around the
            country and testing the BCD396T in>> states where they are common. In my
            testing I compare the 396 (with>> firware v2.9 and 3.01) with ether an Astro
            Saber (Mot Type II Digital)>> or an XTS2500 (for 100% P25). What I found is
            that the the 396 works>> very well on single transmitter sites and is almost
            unusable in>> simulcast areas.>> That's odd. It works fine on my local P25
            simulcast system.>>> My testing was in Minneapolis, Detroit, New Orleans,
            Denver, Orange>> County, San Diego.>>>> It is amazing how the Motorola
            radios never hiccup and the 396 stops>> decoding even after playing with the
            "hold key" adjustments.>> Hold key adjustments? What version of firmware are
            you using? Although> my 396 has never sounded bad, it's possible that
            upgrades to the> firmware could have made a difference on the systems you
            mentioned.>> What's even more odd is that I have heard anomalies on my XTS
            portable> and XTL mobiles. Granted, the 396 will sometimes, too, but when
            the user> radios do it too, I doubt there is anything that would not do the
            same.>>> I am confident that if the development team lived near one of
            these>> sites (and lived with the results daily) they would discover how
            to>> mathematically work out the trick of multipath decoding.>>>> If they
            get this right I will buy both a 396XT and a 996XT and stop>> lugging single
            band portables around with me on planes.>> Again, maybe the answer is that
            it's already been done and you simply> haven't bothered to install the
            upgrades. You've described doing things> that you cannot do with the latest
            firmware.>> Joe M.>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
            removed]>>> ------------------------------------>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>>





            _________________________________________________________________
            Windows LiveT: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
            http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • MCH
            Other than poor connections at the connectors, how would poor coax cause more overload? If anything better coax will have less loss resulting in stronger
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
              Other than poor connections at the connectors, how would poor coax cause
              more overload? If anything better coax will have less loss resulting in
              stronger signals and more overload.

              Joe M.

              johnstark wrote:
              > I own a PSR 600 and don't see an overload issue, but then I don't use cheap
              > coax too, which I believe makes a huge difference. As a test I used a
              > regular $29 CB antenna and it's built in coax and then my own coax and
              > antenna, the cheap junk got lots of interference while my setup using thin
              > LMR400 got none. I'd say the coax is a major contributor to problems.
              > Another thing I found was that with the car running, or even the key on I
              > got more noise as well, the cheap stuff was picking up the electrical noise
              > of the car.
              >
              > John
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "MCH" <mch@...>
              > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:33 PM
              > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
              >
              >
              >> Given the price difference, I think the 396 does a great job. Much of
              >> that price difference is going to be due to the transmitting abilities
              >> of the XTS as well as some additional P25 VOCODER licensing fees, but
              >> still, for $500 the 396 holds it's own very well.
              >>
              >> The XTS does have better sensitivity, but that is to be expected of a
              >> unit designed for a specific band. You cannot compare that to the broad
              >> front end of a scanner.
              >>
              >> It's probably better that the 396 doesn't have more sensitivity - just
              >> ask any GRE scanner owner who travels into 'RF rich' areas. Their slight
              >> sensitivity advantage quickly becomes a disadvantage.
              >>
              >> Joe M.
              >>
              >> johnstark wrote:
              >>> Also you honestly cannot compare a
              >>> $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.
              >>>
              >>> John
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • johnstark
              The cheap stuff doesn t have good shielding Joe..... that allows for more issues. John ... From: MCH To: Sent:
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
                The cheap stuff doesn't have good shielding Joe..... that allows for more
                issues.

                John

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "MCH" <mch@...>
                To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:01 PM
                Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems


                > Other than poor connections at the connectors, how would poor coax cause
                > more overload? If anything better coax will have less loss resulting in
                > stronger signals and more overload.
                >
                > Joe M.
                >
                > johnstark wrote:
                >> I own a PSR 600 and don't see an overload issue, but then I don't use
                >> cheap
                >> coax too, which I believe makes a huge difference. As a test I used a
                >> regular $29 CB antenna and it's built in coax and then my own coax and
                >> antenna, the cheap junk got lots of interference while my setup using
                >> thin
                >> LMR400 got none. I'd say the coax is a major contributor to problems.
                >> Another thing I found was that with the car running, or even the key on I
                >> got more noise as well, the cheap stuff was picking up the electrical
                >> noise
                >> of the car.
                >>
                >> John
                >>
                >>
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >> From: "MCH" <mch@...>
                >> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                >> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:33 PM
                >> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
                >>
                >>
                >>> Given the price difference, I think the 396 does a great job. Much of
                >>> that price difference is going to be due to the transmitting abilities
                >>> of the XTS as well as some additional P25 VOCODER licensing fees, but
                >>> still, for $500 the 396 holds it's own very well.
                >>>
                >>> The XTS does have better sensitivity, but that is to be expected of a
                >>> unit designed for a specific band. You cannot compare that to the broad
                >>> front end of a scanner.
                >>>
                >>> It's probably better that the 396 doesn't have more sensitivity - just
                >>> ask any GRE scanner owner who travels into 'RF rich' areas. Their slight
                >>> sensitivity advantage quickly becomes a disadvantage.
                >>>
                >>> Joe M.
                >>>
                >>> johnstark wrote:
                >>>> Also you honestly cannot compare a
                >>>> $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.
                >>>>
                >>>> John
                >>> ------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • MCH
                It s not the timing that is the problem - it s the deviation of the signal. Too many systems are too far out of spec. If they all were perfect, the setting of
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
                  It's not the timing that is the problem - it's the deviation of the
                  signal. Too many systems are too far out of spec. If they all were
                  perfect, the setting of '8' would have worked fine on all systems. Still
                  the same causes... sloppy installation/maintenance.

                  Global warming is very real. It happens in cycles. We happen to be in
                  the higher part of a cycle right now. The increased solar activity might
                  have something to do with it, too. We gotta stop making the sun hotter!
                  ;-> (as if we've ever done anything to cause any changes to the sun...)

                  As far as us *causing* global warming, I agree - mostly cow doo-doo.
                  Although there is a valid argument about there being more people living
                  on the planet right now than ever before. That could cause warming, too
                  - much like getting a large number of people in a room - even in the
                  winter you need to run the A/C or open some windows. But, the only
                  solution to that is to kill people. I don't think many would agree that
                  is a viable option.

                  But I digress...

                  Joe M.

                  johnstark wrote:
                  > The biggest issue, and it has been stated by Upman in the past is that the
                  > scanners are built to use the SPECIFIED timing for P25 systems, the problem
                  > is many of the systems aren't actually using that specification and then
                  > decoding is an issue. I don't see any scanner being able to "fix" that, it's
                  > up to the radio system techs to bring them into spec, not Uniden or GRE for
                  > that matter.
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Larry Koch" <larrykoch@...>
                  > To: <bcd396xt@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:21 AM
                  > Subject: RE: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Good explanation John. I have the same problem as Peter described and I am
                  > also hoping that the XT will do better. I have tried every digital trunking
                  > scanner on the market (RS 2096, 96 - Uniden 996, 396 - PSR 600, 500) and had
                  > mixed results with them all.
                  >
                  > John, is the timing problem caused by sloppy maintenance, faulty design,
                  > poor manufacturing or global warming?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To: BCD396XT@yahoogroups.comFrom: johnstark@...: Wed, 21 Jan
                  > 2009 11:00:44 -0500Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > As has been said before each P25 is supposed to be set up with specific
                  > timing, the problem is many systems are not set up within the specs and
                  > thats when you have decode problems, it's multiplied on a simulcast system.
                  > Additionally reception is differents too, lower power for the same, or more
                  > coverage. Antenna choice, even weather make huge differences in whether you
                  > get clean clear transmissions or not. Also you honestly cannot compare a
                  > $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.John----- Original
                  > Message ----- From: "Jason W. Watts, KB0KGH" <KB0KGH@...>To:
                  > <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:23 AMSubject:
                  > Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems> The 396 works fine on the
                  > Cedar Rapids Motorola Type II 3600 Digital TRS > that I use the 396 for. And
                  > it is a 2 site simulcast system. Now and then > it does have a hiccup, but
                  > it is very much usable.>> I have barely tested it on a P25 Standard 9600
                  > baud system. I was in the > Quad Cities on the Illinois side and it sounded
                  > garbled. I was on the move > in the vehicle, and couldn't really play around
                  > with settings much. Also, > it was STARCOM 21. I've heard of some problems
                  > with the system itself.>>> Jason Watts> Cedar Rapids, IA> --------------
                  > Original message from MCH <mch@...>: -------------- >> Threaded...>>
                  > Peter Elke wrote:>> My hope in that the Uniden development team move to an
                  > area with a P25>> simulcast system.>>>> I have been traveling around the
                  > country and testing the BCD396T in>> states where they are common. In my
                  > testing I compare the 396 (with>> firware v2.9 and 3.01) with ether an Astro
                  > Saber (Mot Type II Digital)>> or an XTS2500 (for 100% P25). What I found is
                  > that the the 396 works>> very well on single transmitter sites and is almost
                  > unusable in>> simulcast areas.>> That's odd. It works fine on my local P25
                  > simulcast system.>>> My testing was in Minneapolis, Detroit, New Orleans,
                  > Denver, Orange>> County, San Diego.>>>> It is amazing how the Motorola
                  > radios never hiccup and the 396 stops>> decoding even after playing with the
                  > "hold key" adjustments.>> Hold key adjustments? What version of firmware are
                  > you using? Although> my 396 has never sounded bad, it's possible that
                  > upgrades to the> firmware could have made a difference on the systems you
                  > mentioned.>> What's even more odd is that I have heard anomalies on my XTS
                  > portable> and XTL mobiles. Granted, the 396 will sometimes, too, but when
                  > the user> radios do it too, I doubt there is anything that would not do the
                  > same.>>> I am confident that if the development team lived near one of
                  > these>> sites (and lived with the results daily) they would discover how
                  > to>> mathematically work out the trick of multipath decoding.>>>> If they
                  > get this right I will buy both a 396XT and a 996XT and stop>> lugging single
                  > band portables around with me on planes.>> Again, maybe the answer is that
                  > it's already been done and you simply> haven't bothered to install the
                  > upgrades. You've described doing things> that you cannot do with the latest
                  > firmware.>> Joe M.>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]>>> ------------------------------------>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Windows LiveT: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
                  > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • MCH
                  Yes, it can allow for additional signal loss and signal ingress, but compared to the ingress at the antenna it s negligible. I just don t see the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 21, 2009
                    Yes, it can allow for additional signal loss and signal ingress, but
                    compared to the 'ingress' at the antenna it's negligible. I just don't
                    see the relationship that poor coax = more overload. If anything, the
                    signal loss would reduce the overload potential.

                    There is a valid argument that better coax = more overload since there
                    would be more signal present.

                    Joe M.

                    johnstark wrote:
                    > The cheap stuff doesn't have good shielding Joe..... that allows for more
                    > issues.
                    >
                    > John
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "MCH" <mch@...>
                    > To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:01 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
                    >
                    >
                    >> Other than poor connections at the connectors, how would poor coax cause
                    >> more overload? If anything better coax will have less loss resulting in
                    >> stronger signals and more overload.
                    >>
                    >> Joe M.
                    >>
                    >> johnstark wrote:
                    >>> I own a PSR 600 and don't see an overload issue, but then I don't use
                    >>> cheap
                    >>> coax too, which I believe makes a huge difference. As a test I used a
                    >>> regular $29 CB antenna and it's built in coax and then my own coax and
                    >>> antenna, the cheap junk got lots of interference while my setup using
                    >>> thin
                    >>> LMR400 got none. I'd say the coax is a major contributor to problems.
                    >>> Another thing I found was that with the car running, or even the key on I
                    >>> got more noise as well, the cheap stuff was picking up the electrical
                    >>> noise
                    >>> of the car.
                    >>>
                    >>> John
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> ----- Original Message -----
                    >>> From: "MCH" <mch@...>
                    >>> To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                    >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:33 PM
                    >>> Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>> Given the price difference, I think the 396 does a great job. Much of
                    >>>> that price difference is going to be due to the transmitting abilities
                    >>>> of the XTS as well as some additional P25 VOCODER licensing fees, but
                    >>>> still, for $500 the 396 holds it's own very well.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> The XTS does have better sensitivity, but that is to be expected of a
                    >>>> unit designed for a specific band. You cannot compare that to the broad
                    >>>> front end of a scanner.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> It's probably better that the 396 doesn't have more sensitivity - just
                    >>>> ask any GRE scanner owner who travels into 'RF rich' areas. Their slight
                    >>>> sensitivity advantage quickly becomes a disadvantage.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Joe M.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> johnstark wrote:
                    >>>>> Also you honestly cannot compare a
                    >>>>> $3000 radio to a $500 scanner.... thats just common sense.
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> John
                    >>>> ------------------------------------
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>
                    >>> ------------------------------------
                    >>>
                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
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                  • Mike
                    A little OT, but what brand of microwaves? We run Harris Constellations and while they normally run between 50 and 80 degrees ambient temps, we ve had them
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 25, 2009
                      A little OT, but what brand of microwaves? We run Harris Constellations
                      and while they normally run between 50 and 80 degrees ambient temps,
                      we've had them run fine as low as 35 degrees in the site.

                      Mike

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...>
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:33 PM
                      Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems


                      Sloppy install to start with, and not fixing it during maintenance,
                      gllobal
                      warming is a joke in my book, and it won't affect the system other than
                      needing better cooling in the summer. Kind of odd situation here with a
                      P16
                      statewide system last week where they had to put heaters at some
                      microwave
                      sites because they got too cold and failed.

                      John


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Larry Koch" <larrykoch@...>
                      To: <bcd396xt@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:21 AM
                      Subject: RE: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems



                      Good explanation John. I have the same problem as Peter described and I
                      am
                      also hoping that the XT will do better. I have tried every digital
                      trunking
                      scanner on the market (RS 2096, 96 - Uniden 996, 396 - PSR 600, 500) and
                      had
                      mixed results with them all.

                      John, is the timing problem caused by sloppy maintenance, faulty design,
                      poor manufacturing or global warming?
                    • johnstark
                      I have no clue, but they failed when it was between 10 above and -12 with wind chills as low -35 John ... From: Mike To:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 25, 2009
                        I have no clue, but they failed when it was between 10 above and -12 with
                        wind chills as low -35

                        John


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Mike" <pyro68@...>
                        To: <BCD396XT@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:23 PM
                        Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems


                        >A little OT, but what brand of microwaves? We run Harris Constellations
                        > and while they normally run between 50 and 80 degrees ambient temps,
                        > we've had them run fine as low as 35 degrees in the site.
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "johnstark" <johnstark@...>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:33 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
                        >
                        >
                        > Sloppy install to start with, and not fixing it during maintenance,
                        > gllobal
                        > warming is a joke in my book, and it won't affect the system other than
                        > needing better cooling in the summer. Kind of odd situation here with a
                        > P16
                        > statewide system last week where they had to put heaters at some
                        > microwave
                        > sites because they got too cold and failed.
                        >
                        > John
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Larry Koch" <larrykoch@...>
                        > To: <bcd396xt@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:21 AM
                        > Subject: RE: [BCD396XT] Decoding simulcast P25 systems
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Good explanation John. I have the same problem as Peter described and I
                        > am
                        > also hoping that the XT will do better. I have tried every digital
                        > trunking
                        > scanner on the market (RS 2096, 96 - Uniden 996, 396 - PSR 600, 500) and
                        > had
                        > mixed results with them all.
                        >
                        > John, is the timing problem caused by sloppy maintenance, faulty design,
                        > poor manufacturing or global warming?
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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