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Meeting in Germantown, Maryland

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  • Steve Karg
    Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being held
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 14, 2005
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      Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

      As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be
      at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being held at Montgomery College
      Germantown Campus. Other working groups will be meeting as well.

      Our hosts are arranging for a block of rooms at the nearby Hampton
      Inn; the details will be posted when they are ready.

      The meeting schedule is as follows:
      Mon 4/25: 8A - 5P BTL-WG HTSC 216

      Tue 4/26: 8A - 5P LSS-WG (1) HSS 007
      8A - 12N BTL-WG HTSC 216
      1P - 5P MSTP-WG HTSC 216

      Wed 4/27: 8A - 12N NS-WG HTSC 216
      8A - 12N AP-WG HSS 007
      1P- 5P XML-WG HTSC 216

      Thu 4/28: 8A - 5P LSS-WG (2) HSS 007
      8A - 12N OS-WG (1) HTSC 216
      1P - 5P LA-WG HTSC 216
      1P - 5P UI-WG HTSC Lobby

      Fri 4/29: 8A - 12N OS-WG (2) HTSC 216

      Please let Bill Swan <mailto:Bill.Swan@...> know if you plan
      on attending, so he can come up with a rough head count in advance.

      Best Regards,

      Steve Karg
      Lithonia Lighting

      ------------------
      Preliminary agenda
      ------------------

      Lighting Applications Working Group
      BACnet working groups interim meetings
      HT Globe Hall
      Montgomery College, Germantown Campus
      Germantown, Maryland

      The Lighting Applications working group will meet from 1 PM Thursday,
      April 28th until 5 PM, in HTSC 216 of HT Globe Hall.

      Thursday, April 28, 2005.
      ---------------
      1.Opening remarks (1:00 pm - 5 minutes)
      2.Circulation of attendance sheet. Introduction of those present.
      (1:05 pm - 5minutes)
      3.Meeting role assignments (1:10 pm - 5minutes)
      time keeper
      scribe
      non-agenda item attendant
      4.Approval of the minutes from the previous meeting. (1:15 pm - 5
      minutes)
      5.Discussion and approval of the agenda for this meeting. (1:20 pm -
      5 minutes)
      6.Liason reports. (1:25 pm - 5 minutes)
      7.LA-WG proposal discussion / resolution via consensus (1:30 pm - 3.5
      hours)
      * DMF-028-2 - offset in weekly schedule
      * Speed of lighting control on the wire
      -- Broadcast group write of mode
      -- Fast unconfirmed broadcast write service
      8.Break (2:30 pm - 7 minutes)
      9.Break (3:30 pm - 7 minutes)
      10.Break (4:30 pm - 7 minutes)
      11.Discussion of Non-Agenda Items (4:37pm - 13 minutes)
      12.Schedule and agenda for future meetings.(4:50pm - 10 minutes)
      13.Adjournment (5:00pm)
      ==================
    • Steve Karg
      The Lighting Applications working group will meet from 1 PM Thursday, April 28th until 5 PM, in HTSC 216 of HT Globe Hall at Montgomery College Germantown
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 17, 2005
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        The Lighting Applications working group will meet from 1 PM Thursday,
        April 28th until 5 PM, in HTSC 216 of HT Globe Hall at Montgomery
        College Germantown Campus. Other BACnet working groups will be
        meeting at various times during the same week.

        Location
        --------
        Montgomery College Germantown Campus
        20200 Observation Drive
        Germantown, Maryland 20876

        Directions
        ----------
        http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/
        Look under directories, maps & directions. Located just northwest of
        Washington, DC, off of Interstate I-270 North.

        Parking
        -------
        Park in any white line space on campus.

        Local Contact
        -------------
        Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
        Energy Manager
        Montgomery College
        900 Hungerford Drive
        Rockville, Maryland, 20850
        Office Phone: +1 (301) 251-737
        Office Fax: +1 (301) 251-7379
        Mobile Phone: +1 (301) 509-3723
        mailto:mwhitcom@...

        Airports
        --------
        Served by three airports in the Washington, DC area,
        Baltimore-Washington International(BWI), Dulles International(IAD) and
        Reagan National (DCA).

        Mass Transit
        ------------
        Located just north (approximately 10 miles) of the Red Line, Shady
        Grove Metro Station. The Metro is the subway rail system serving the
        DC metro area. A shuttle service (5 mile radius) is available from
        the Hampton Inn.

        Hotel
        -----
        Hampton Inn
        20260 Goldenrod Lane
        Germantown, MD 20876
        Hotel Contact: Giulia
        Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
        Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
        website: http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
        Block: ASHRAE
        Rate: $109.00 + tax
        Location: Get maps and directions from the hotel website. The Hampton
        Inn is located on property adjacent to the Germantown Campus and is a
        5 minute walk through parking lots that adjoin the campus to the
        meeting rooms.
      • Steve Karg
        Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! I have been advised that the block of rooms at the Hampton Inn are reserved under the name Mike Whitcomb, not ASHRAE.
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 17, 2005
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          Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

          I have been advised that the block of rooms at the Hampton Inn are
          reserved under the name Mike Whitcomb, not ASHRAE. Give them both
          and it works just fine.

          Hampton Inn
          20260 Goldenrod Lane
          Germantown, MD 20876
          Hotel Contact: Giulia
          Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
          Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
          website: http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
          Block: Mike Whitcomb and ASHRAE
          Rate: $109.00 + tax
          Location: Get maps and directions from the hotel website. The
          Hampton Inn is located on property adjacent to the Germantown Campus
          and is a 5 minute walk through parking lots that adjoin the campus
          to the meeting rooms.

          Best Regards,

          Steve Karg
          Lithonia Lighting
        • Steve Karg
          Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! Here are the draft minutes of our meeting in Germantown, Maryland. Please post any corrections to this list:
          Message 4 of 12 , May 16, 2005
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            Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

            Here are the draft minutes of our meeting in Germantown, Maryland.
            Please post any corrections to this list:
            mailto:BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com

            Steve

            =======================

            Meeting Minutes (DRAFT)
            28 April 2005
            Germantown, Maryland

            Participants - Affiliation
            --------------------------
            Steve Karg - Lithonia Lighting
            Craig Spangler - Square D
            Robert Hick - Leviton Lighting
            Jack Neyer - Polarsoft
            David Fisher - Polarsoft
            Bill Jennings - NAVFAC MIDLANT
            Ernie Bryant - NAVFAC MIDLANT
            Don Gottschalk - Johnson Controls
            Pete Baselici - The WattStopper
            Bob Johnson - Siemens Bldg. Tech.
            Steve Treado - NIST

            The meeting was called to order at 1pm.

            A timekeeper (Pete Baselici) and a scribe (Robert Hicks) were assigned.
            Don Gottschalk was volunteered to track the non-agenda items.

            Review of minutes - approved

            Meeting agenda approved

            Liason Reports
            Robert Hick reported no NEMA DALI activity since last meeting:

            LA-WG proposal discussion:

            DMF028-02 Famous Times
            David Fisher reported that problems have been discovered with DMF028-02
            and requested that we withdraw and table this proposal until we enlist
            help from other working groups, such as the OS group. All agreed.

            DMF030-3 WriteGroup Service
            David Fisher presented this revision to his original proposal as a
            partial solution to the requirement in lighting systems to change a
            large number of values quickly.

            Primary change was the addition of an acknowledgement mechanism and
            supporting services. Whereas, if the sender required an acknowledgement
            from the group members, the sender would include a REPLY REQUESTED ID.
            The group members would be required to reply through a WriteGroupAck
            service.

            It was noted that control mode is similar to activating "presets" in a
            lighting control system and that a device may have membership in
            multiple groups. The broadcast may be sent locally, to a remote BACnet
            network number, or using the global BACnet network address.

            There was a question about returning error codes. It was decided that
            error codes may be difficult to define and may be unnecessary.

            There was discussion about why the current Command Object could not be
            modified to accomplish the same. The conclusion was that the Command
            Object was unsuitable.

            There was also a question concerning how long to wait for replies. The
            decision was to leave it unspecified and a local matter.

            Motion to move DMF030-3 to SSPC committee, as is, was seconded and
            passed with no opposed and one abstaining.

            Speed of Lighting Control on the Wire.

            Furthering the discussion from last meeting.

            There is still a need in the lighting community for a service that would
            allow many individual values to be set to individual levels in one
            packet, similar to DMX512.
            David Fisher presented his notes on a concept for a GroupWriteMultiple
            service. David’s concept involved "slots" that may be configured in
            each dimmer or switching device.

            Three possible methods were described:
            Method 1 - Typical BACnet tagged approach.
            Method 2 - Use only one datatype, map is local matter.
            Method 3 - Octet string, canonically encoded.

            The third method was most efficient, but was furthest from BACnet norms.
            It was noted that MSTP networks would limit the packet size to 480
            bytes, so efficiency was very important. It was suggested that the
            service needs to address at least 100 values in a packet.

            It was also suggested that a separate priority need not be sent with
            each value, and that 8 bit data may be sufficient for lighting control
            but may not be sufficient for other uses.

            Steve Karg and Robert Hick presented an example of a typical case for
            the use of this service where a ballroom may be serviced by partial
            number of outputs from several dimmer cabinets. The "slot" concept was
            questioned and a more global "channel" assignment similar to DMX was
            discussed. Whereas, each output of dimmer or switching devices would be
            configured locally with an identifier, commonly referred to as a
            "channel number" in the lighting community. The identifier may be
            unique, or several outputs may have the same identifier if the outputs
            were designed to always operate in tandem. The GroupWriteMultiple
            service would utilize Method 3 and encode the Values as "GroupChannel,
            Value, GroupChannel, Value, etc".

            Further discussion resolved that both the GroupChannel and GroupValue
            should be an unsigned 16bit. It was also decided that a single priority
            should be included as an overall priority for the packet. Relinquish
            would be handled as a specially encoded value such as 0xFFFF indicating null

            David agreed to cast the new WriteGroupMultiple service and present a
            proposal to be discussed at the next meeting. David requested email
            discussion prior to the meeting.

            Other needs of lighting community.

            Steve asked what were the other needs for the lighting community. A
            method for "Room Combining" was suggested. It was noted that the
            mechanics of this may be kept a local matter, although there may be a
            way of supervising using current BACnet objects and services. This may
            be discussed in future meetings.

            Future Meeting.

            It was decided that the next meeting would be held in Denver, possible
            on Sunday, June 26th , 2005. Steve will confirm the date and time
            through email.
          • Steve Karg
            Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! As proposed at our last meeting, next scheduled meeting of the Lighting Applications working group will be at the
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 17, 2007
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              Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

              As proposed at our last meeting, next scheduled meeting of the Lighting
              Applications working group will be at the Spring interim SSPC meeting,
              which is being held at Montgomery College Germantown Campus. The
              Lighting Applications working group will be meeting on Tuesday, April
              24, 2007, from 1PM to 5PM. Other working groups will be meeting as
              well. More information about the other working groups can be found at
              the BACnet.org website:
              http://www.bacnet.org/WG/

              Montgomery College is served by three major international airports in
              the Washington, DC area, Baltimore-Washington International(BWI), Dulles
              International(IAD) and Reagan National (DCA).

              Our host arranged a block of rooms at the nearby Hampton
              Inn which is within easy walking distance of the meetings.

              Hampton Inn
              20260 Goldenrod Lane
              Germantown, MD 20876
              Contact: John Jordan
              Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
              Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
              http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
              Group/Convention Code: ASH
              Rate: $109.00 + tax
              Location: The Hampton Inn is located on property adjacent to the
              Germantown Campus and is a 2 block walk through parking lots that adjoin
              the campus. Maps and directions can be found on the website.

              Meeting Schedule and Location:
              High Technology Sciences Center (HTSC), Room 216
              Humanities and Social Sciences (HSS), Room 007
              Montgomery College Germantown Campus
              20200 Observation Drive
              Germantown, Maryland 20876
              Contact: Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
              Office Phone: +1 (301) 251-7375
              http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/maps/gcamp.html

              Monday, April 23
              8AM-3PM HTSC 216 Applications
              3PM-5PM HTSC 216 Internet Protocol
              Noon-5PM HSS-007 BACnet Testing Labs

              Tuesday, April 24
              8AM-5PM HTSC 216 Life Safety and Security
              1PM-3PM Life Safety and Security / Network Security joint session
              8PM-Noon HSS-007 Testing and Interoperability
              1PM-5PM HSS-007 Lighting Applications
              6:30 PM Group Dinner

              Wednesday, April 25
              8AM-5PM HTSC 216 SSPC 135 BACnet

              Thursday, April 26
              8AM-10AM HTSC 216 Wireless Networking
              10AM-11AM HTSC 216 Master-Slave/Token-Passing
              11AM-Noon HTSC 216 XML Applications
              1PM-3PM HTSC 216 Utility Integration
              3PM-5PM HTSC 216 Objects and Services

              Friday, April 27
              8AM-Noon HTSC 216 Objects and Services

              Please send Bill Swan <mailto:Bill.Swan@...> a courtesy e-mail
              to let him know if you plan on attending.

              The Lighting Applications working group Agenda will include the
              following items:
              1. Review DMF-032 WriteGroup service with Multiplexor object internals
              2. Review any Addendum i public review comments
              Please post any additional LA-WG agenda items to this list.

              Best Regards,

              Steve Karg
              Lithonia Lighting
              --
              http://steve.kargs.net/
            • Steve Karg
              Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! Here are the meeting minutes from our last meeting. The meeting minutes have also been submitted to the BACnet
              Message 6 of 12 , May 25, 2007
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                Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

                Here are the meeting minutes from our last meeting. The meeting
                minutes have also been submitted to the BACnet committee chair as
                LA019.doc.

                Best Regards,

                Steve Karg

                --------------------------------------------
                BACnet - Lighting Applications Working Group
                Meeting Minutes
                April, 24 2007
                Germantown, Maryland

                The minutes from the last meeting, LA018.doc, were approved without
                changes.

                The agenda for the meeting was modified to include a discussion of the
                "Color" property that was recently removed from the Lighting Output
                object.

                There were no Liaison reports.

                Status of unpublished work:
                Addendum i to 135-2004 went out for public review in March. This
                addendum defines a new Lighting Output Object. David Fisher was asked
                about the status of the "Famous Times" feature, but the status is
                unknown.

                Simple Value Objects (Famous Times for Dawn and Dusk): David Fisher
                said that he has been given a mandate [not during this meeting] to
                write a proposal that makes almost all of the properties of the
                "Value" objects optional, to create the opportunity for very
                "lightweight" objects.

                Hand-Off-Auto feature: Some of this is included in Addendum i, but
                some people are interested in a property that indicates the H-O-A
                switch position separately from the Present_Value. This proposal is
                in front of the Objects and Services working group.

                David Fisher said that there is a flaw in Addendum i related to the
                fact that the Blink behavior does not map onto Binary Value objects
                well because Binary Value objects are not required to have a
                Priority_Array property. David then presented proposal DMF-019-10.doc
                to the LA-WG meeting attendees as a solution to this problem. The
                basis of the solution is that the Blink_Priority_Threshold property is
                not required in non-commandable Binary Value objects. A question
                was raised as to how this change would affect the blink behavior.
                David answered that this is detailed in section 12.8.29.1 of
                DMF-019-10.doc.

                Pete stated that a local switch would typically override the off delay
                (which is the whole point of the off delay, to give occupants the
                chance to prevent the lights from going out), so could a sentence be
                added about cancelling the off delay if PV becomes Active? The group
                agreed that a sentence like the following should be added:

                "During off delay, if PV becomes Active, off delay should be canceled
                and the output should remain Active".

                Pete raised the issue that the maximum ON time of manual overrides
                should not be applicable when the area is occupied. David said that
                this would need to be an additional feature. Pete said that the same
                end result could be accomplished by "sweeping" areas with an OFF
                command at regular intervals during unoccupied times, and this seemed
                to satisfy the application requirements without requiring changes to
                the proposal.

                The discussion returned to the changes proposed related to the blink
                feature and non-commandable BV objects. Did the group want to submit
                this as a change to the standard AFTER Addendum i is approved, or
                should this be submitted as a comment to Addendum i during the public
                review period to get the changes incorporated before Addendum i is
                approved for publication? The general consensus was that it would be
                better to submit a comment during the public review to get Addendum i
                modified before publication. David Fisher agreed to submit this
                comment to ASHRAE as part of the Addendum i public review.

                New issue. Steve asked "What is returned by ReadProperty when reading
                the Lighting_Command property? What if Lighting_Command has never
                been commanded, i.e. what is its initial value?" The group decided
                that when Lighting_Command is read by ReadProperty, it should return
                the value last commanded and the command parameters, or STOP if it has
                never been commanded.

                Steve suggested that the sentence prior to Table 12-Z in Addendum i
                needed to be reworded. The group agreed on the following change to
                that sentence:

                "Optional fields of the BACnetLightingOperation value that are
                allowable as indicated by table 12-Z for each operation are shown in
                bold." David Fisher agreed to submit Steve's comment to ASHRAE as part
                of the Addendum i public review.

                Review of proposal DMF-043-1:
                David Fisher explained that the objective of this proposal is to take
                Steve Karg's original Multiplexer object and cast it as a Channel
                object. This fixes a problem with the original idea of the "Channel"
                command: no network visibility. Writing the PV of the Channel object
                causes writes to all objects in the List_Of_Object_Property_References
                at the same priority. The Channel object can also coerce the data
                between different datatypes. The Channel object itself is not
                commandable but the command priority is passed down to the target
                objects. The Channel object's instance number is the same as the
                channel number.

                There was a lengthy discussion about the need for a channel number
                that is independent of the channel object Object_Identifier. David
                Fisher proposed that a property be added to the Device object to
                indicate which control groups it belongs to. Bob said that he wanted
                each application to have its own group association, and that group
                association should not be tied to the hardware which is what would
                happen if the list of control groups was a property of the Device
                object.

                It was noted that since the proposed Write Group service is
                unconfirmed by design so that it can be used as a sort of multicast,
                there is no way to verify whether a Device is responding to Write
                Group or not.

                After the lengthy discussion of various uses of Channels and Groups in
                lighting applications, a vote was taken on the following: "Should
                Channel number be decoupled from the Channel Object instance number?"
                The result of the vote was 5 to 1 in favor of decoupling.

                David explained that the Transition Time service parameter was removed
                from the Write Group service because the concept of transition time is
                not easy to apply to all of the objects that could be in the
                List_Of_Object_Property_References.

                Steve suggested the idea of a randomized command delay, to prevent
                power surges. After some discussion, the group agreed to the
                following proposal: Write Group has a delayed execution flag, but the
                amount to delay is a local matter. David Fisher will incorporate this
                into the next revision of DMF-043.

                Bob asked a couple of questions:
                Q:"Does Write Group have to be sent as a broadcast?"
                A: "No, it can be unicast".

                Q:"Can it be confirmed?".
                A: "No."

                Discussion of the Color property:

                David Fisher explained that the Color property originally had 2 purposes:
                1.Indication of fixed color lights, like lights with filters,
                2.controllable color, like RGB LEDs.

                Some of the problems that arose:
                1.BACnet needed a new datatype for RGB values.
                2.It would be nice if the Lighting Output indicated support for
                commandable color.
                3.Multiple commandable properties in the same object is a problem.
                4.Min and Max level don't apply well to color.

                For these reasons, David thought it might be better to create a
                different Lighting Output specifically intended for color lights,
                complete with new services such as Ramp to Color, Go to Color, and
                Step Color (no - stepping color doesn't make sense).

                So the question is, do we want a separate object for color lights?
                The group decided that this was the right direction, but that we
                should also include support for other advanced lighting control
                features that are beyond the capabilities of the greyscale Lighting
                Output object, such as those used in theatrical lighting like pan,
                zoom, and tilt. David also would like to collect input on which color
                space we should use. RGB24 would be simple, but is it adequate?
                Steve Karg to provide David Fisher with a list of theatrical lighting
                features and properties. David Fisher to create a proposal based on
                the input he receives.

                Next Meeting
                ------------
                The next meeting of the LA-WG will be in Long Beach, CA, on Sunday,
                June 24, 2007, from 8:30am to noon in the Long Beach Convention
                Center, Seaside Section, Room 306A.

                Thank you to Mike Danner for taking meeting notes, to Coleman Brumley
                for keeping time, and David Fisher for keeping track of non-agenda items.

                Attendees
                ---------
                Note: The list of attendees is probably not correct as I created it
                from memory. I seemed to have misplaced the sign in sheet during my
                recent change in employers from Lithonia Lighting to The Wattstopper.
                Any error or omissions are unintended and corrections are welcome. -
                Steve

                Name, Organization
                ------------------
                David Fisher, Polarsoft
                Coleman Brumley, Polarsoft
                Pete Baselici, The WattStopper
                Steve Karg, Lithonia Lighting
                Bob Johnson, Siemens Building Technology
                Steve Treado, NIST
                Mike Danner, Automated Logic
                Dave Robin, Automated Logic
                Rolf Hunt, Automated Logic
              • Steve Karg
                Hello Lighting Applications working group! As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 18, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Lighting Applications working group!

                  As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be
                  at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being held at Montgomery College
                  Germantown Campus.

                  The Lighting Applications working group meeting is scheduled during
                  the morning for two days (8am-noon) on Monday, April 21, 2008 and
                  Tuesday, April 22, 2008, in room HS-007.

                  Our major agenda items include:
                  1. Discuss Color and associated properties for lighting. What needs to
                  be included in an object or profile for BACnet interoperabilty?
                  Specifications for the Chromaticity of Solid
                  State Lighting Products developed by ANSI may apply:
                  http://www.nema.org/stds/ANSI-ANSLG-C78-377.cfm

                  2. Discuss Addendum H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"

                  3. Lighting Application BIBB? 135.1 Testing additions?

                  See you there!

                  Steve
                  ====================================
                  ASHRAE SSPC 135 BACnet Interim Meeting
                  April 21 - April 25, 2008

                  Location:
                  Montgomery College Germantown Campus
                  20200 Observation Drive
                  Germantown, Maryland 20876

                  Building:
                  High Technology Sciences Center (HT)
                  Humanities and Social Sciences Building (HS) (cafeteria)
                  http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/maps/gcamp.html

                  Directions:
                  http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/
                  Look under information for: visitors and community: maps & directions:
                  Germantown campus. They are located just Northwest of Washington, DC,
                  directly off of Interstate I-270 North, not far from the National
                  Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

                  Parking:
                  Park in any white line space.

                  Contact:
                  Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
                  Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
                  Energy Manager
                  Montgomery College
                  40 West Gude Drive, Suite 200
                  Rockville, Maryland, 20850
                  Office Phone: +1 (240) 567-7375
                  Mobile Phone: +1 (301) 509-3723
                  mailto:mike.whitcomb@...

                  Airports:
                  Montgomery College is served by the three major airports in the
                  Washington, DC area:
                  Baltimore-Washington International(BWI)
                  Dulles International(IAD)
                  Reagan National(DCA)

                  Metro:
                  Montgomery College is located just North(approximately 10 miles) of
                  the Red Line, Shady Grove Metro Station. The Metro is the subway rail
                  system serving the DC metro area. A shuttle service is available from
                  the Hampton Inn. Taxi service is also available.

                  Hotel:
                  Hampton Inn Germantown
                  20260 Goldenrod Lane
                  Germantown, MD 20876
                  Contact: Elijah Hammonds
                  Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
                  Fax: +1 (301) 428-2870
                  http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
                  Block: ASHRAE Rate: $115.00 + tax
                  Location: Get maps and directions from website. The Hampton Inn is
                  located on property adjacent to our Germantown Campus and is a 2 block
                  walk through parking lots that adjoin the campus.

                  Booking online (please note: the Group Code does not appear to work –
                  call the hotel):
                  1) Log onto www.hamptoninngermantown.com and click on the upper right
                  hand corner in the box labeled "Book Now!"
                  2) Click on link that reads, "Need to Book Multiple Group Reservations?"
                  3) Type in dates of stay and room preference and then scroll down to
                  Special Accounts and enter ASHRAE in the Group/Convention Box and
                  click "continue."
                  4) Your rates (both for standards and suites) will appear and you can
                  continue with the reservation as normal

                  Meeting Schedule
                  --------------------------
                  Monday April 21
                  BTL WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                  LA-WG (HS-007 8am-noon)
                  Lunch (noon-1pm)
                  TI-WG (HT216 1pm-5pm)
                  AP-WG (HS-007 1pm-5pm)

                  Tuesday April 22
                  XML WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                  LA-WG (HS-007 8am-noon)
                  Lunch (noon-1pm)
                  MSTP-WG (HT216 1pm-3pm)
                  IP-WG (HT216 3pm-5pm)
                  AP-WG (HS-007 1pm-5pm)

                  Wednesday April 23
                  SSPC-135 (HT216 8am-noon)
                  Lunch (noon-1pm)
                  SSPC-135 (HT216 1pm-5pm)

                  Thursday April 24
                  OS WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                  LSS-WG (HS-007 8am-noon)
                  Lunch (noon-1pm)
                  NS/LSS-WG (HT216 1pm-3pm)
                  NS-WG (HT216 3pm-5pm)
                  WN-WG (HS-007 1pm-3pm)
                  UI-WG (HS-007 3pm-5pm)

                  Friday April 25
                  OS WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                  --
                  http://steve.kargs.net/
                • Steve Karg
                  Hello Lighting Applications Working Group! We met in Germantown for two days, and had some fantastic discussion. Appended are the meeting minutes, which are
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 17, 2008
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                    Hello Lighting Applications Working Group!

                    We met in Germantown for two days, and had some fantastic discussion.
                    Appended are the meeting minutes, which are also in the LA023.doc file
                    which has been uploaded to the BACnet FTP server.

                    Best Regards,

                    Steve
                    ===============
                    1.Opening remarks – by Steve Karg (8:30AM)
                    2.Circulation of attendance sheet, and introduction of those present
                    Name, Affiliation
                    David Fisher, Polarsoft
                    Coleman Brumley, Polarsoft
                    Steve Karg, The Watt Stopper
                    Robert Hick, Leviton
                    Duane King, Acuity Brands Lighting
                    Dana Peterson, Johnson Controls
                    Christoph Zeller, Sauter
                    David Ritter, Delta Controls

                    3.Meeting role assignments
                    time keeper - David Fisher
                    scribe - Robert Hick, Steve Karg
                    non-agenda item attendant - Coleman
                    4.Approval of the minutes from the previous meeting.
                    5.Discussion and approval of the agenda for this meeting.
                    6.Liaison updates (NEMA, IESNA, DALI)

                    Robert Hick reported on progress of NEMA 243 DALI protocol standard
                    and harmonization with IEC 602386 DALI protocol standard. Hope was to
                    have a final draft for IEC voting by summer.

                    7.Status of SSPC-135-2004 Addendum i PPR2

                    PPR2 ends on May 9. Steve Karg submitted one comment due to initial
                    PPR2 document not matching the draft submitted. Current PPR2 document
                    matches the draft, and the public review period was extended. Steve's
                    comment is now mute.

                    8.LA-WG proposal discussion / resolution via consensus

                    DMF-051-1: Color Lighting Object

                    David Fisher presented DMF-051-1 and a discussion ensued.
                    DMF-051-1 proposed a new color object with separate properties for
                    control of fading and luminance.

                    There was another proposal that color should be merged into the
                    current lighting object since it already has the Luminance properties
                    built in.

                    David Ritter also suggested that we should reference the color object
                    with the light object instead.

                    After much discussion there was a consensus to add color functionality
                    to the existing light object. David F agreed to create a proposal to
                    amend the Light object to incorporate the color properties and
                    commands.

                    There was also discussion on how to best define color?

                    It was noted that there were several ways to define color.
                    RGB values – used in entertainment lighting and combines luminance
                    CIE xy coordinates – Precise color only, used to define LED's
                    Color Temperature Tc– Used to define white light – warm to cool

                    After much discussion, it was determined that all three methods have
                    specific benefits for different applications of color in lighting.
                    There was a consensus to use the Lighting Command to command the color
                    in any of the 3 different ways. David F suggested that the xy
                    coordinates be expressed in integers.

                    Another issue discussed was how to present the current color value and
                    should the device only present the color method being used or be
                    required to calculate values for all methods.

                    David Ritter also expressed a need for a light weight object for
                    lighting control. There was a brief discussion about adding Color to
                    BO, however it was decided that color would rarely be used with Binary
                    devices. The subject of the need for Blink Warn in the BO resurfaced
                    and the group is considering reviving the past proposal.

                    References in Clause 25:
                    CIE 13.3
                    ANSI, NEMA ASNL6C78-377-2008

                    Discussion of Delta Comments on SSPC 135-2004 Addendum i PPR2

                    David Ritter and his team at Delta Controls reviewed Addendum I and
                    provided a number of comments that were submitted to the Lighting
                    Applications working group and discussed. Concern was raised that the
                    time it takes for PPR to happen would delay the publication at least
                    another year.

                    1. In_Process property should be a required property since the
                    lighting command property is required and its purpose is to show the
                    progress of the lighting command.
                    Discussion: There are no objections from the working group to making
                    In_Process a required property, except that this comment on its own
                    should not be cause to have a PPR3. This would be a substantive
                    comment.
                    2. In the Lighting_Command property the sentence "..the write shall
                    fail and a Result(-) with an error class of PROPERTY and a error class
                    of OPTIONAL_FUNCTIONALITY_NOT_SUPPORTY." the second "error class"
                    should be "error code".
                    Discussion: This item is an erratta.
                    3. In the Lighting_Command property should there be a subset of
                    operations which are required to be supported?
                    Can a device not support any lighting command operations? If a device
                    is not required to support any operations the sentence "Devices are
                    not required to support all BACnetLightingOperations" should be
                    changed to "Devices are not required to support any
                    BACnetLightingOperations".
                    Discussion: The working group agreed that it was assumed to be at
                    least one command. STOP, GOTO_LEVEL, and RELINQUISH should be
                    required. Seems that this potential ambiguity could eventually receive
                    an interpretation request and we should address it now. It would be
                    substantive.
                    Can vendors extend the Lighting_Command enumeration? Working group
                    decided that extending the enumeration for vendors would be okay, and
                    agreed that the values be 16-bit, 0-255 reserved for ASHRAE. This may
                    promote non-interoperability, however.
                    4. In the Lighting_Command property there are 6 different ramp
                    commands defined. This is an excessive number of similar commands. The
                    commands can be reduced to two choices:
                    RAMP_TO
                    RAMP_TO_AT_RATE
                    The other 4 commands can easily be achieved by these two commands.
                    Discussion: While it may be better to be simpler, the Addendum is not
                    unclear by having them. However, it may result in more
                    interoperability problems having more choices. Simplifying the number
                    of commands would be a substantive change.
                    5. In the Lighting_Command property the commands RAMP_UP and RAMP_DOWN
                    should be changed to RAMP_MAX and RAMP_MIN respectively to better
                    denote the function of the commands.
                    Discussion: If we accept #4 comment to simplify, then this comment is
                    mute. Yes, these may be better names. The change would be
                    substantive.
                    6. The Blink_Time property should be changed to tenths of a second
                    rather than hundredths. Specifying a blink time in hundredths of a
                    second is excessive.
                    Discussion: The only sub-seconds defines in BACnet are currently
                    milliseconds or hundredths or REAL seconds. Adds complexity for
                    clients to have an additional time conversion. Should use milliseconds
                    to be SI compliant, but resolution a local matter. Blink is probably
                    only visible if it is longer than 50ms, so tenths of seconds may be
                    not enough resolution. The change to milliseconds would be
                    substantive.
                    7. There is a type inconsistency among the properties that specify
                    time duration. Some properties specify the duration in seconds as a
                    REAL (Lighting_Command.fade-time, Fade_Time, Off_Delay, On_Delay)
                    while other specify the duration in seconds as an Unsigned
                    (Lighting_Command.Duration, Elaspsed_Active_Time). It would be
                    preferable to have a consistent measure and unit of duration
                    throughout the object type.
                    Discussion: The non-REAL are consistent with other objects similar
                    properties. The REAL were changed from non-REAL during SSPC and
                    working group discussion prior to PPR1.
                    8. On_Delay/Off_Delay property should specify that the value cannot
                    take on negative values. It should specify what error code to return
                    if an invalid value is attempted to be written.
                    Discussion: Time values in this object should never be negative.
                    Should we specify this as affecting all time properties in this
                    object? Which Error class/code?
                    9. The property name "Off_Delay" should be changed to "Blink Warn
                    Delay" as it is only used when a blink warning is in effect.
                    Discussion: Permits Off_Delay when Blink_Time is zero - see
                    Blink_Time. Perhaps some language is needed to define this ability
                    clearly. Perhaps a diagram would be useful - see David's white paper.
                    Note that most of the diagrams from David Fisher's white paper would
                    be useful in this object.
                    On_Delay does not utilize a priority threshold, and this behavior
                    seems to be an omission. Perhaps use Blink Priority Threshold, but
                    change the name to Delay_Priority_Threshold.
                    10. The order of properties in the property descriptions should match
                    the order given in the table (i.e., Profile Name should be last).
                    Discussion: editorial
                    11. Power should be specified in watts not kilowatts as most lighting
                    fixtures would be significantly less than 1 kilowatt. The value may
                    also be changed to Unsigned from REAL.
                    Discussion: The Power units and datatype are consistent with Load
                    Control object Full_Duty_Baseline property. Perhaps the Power
                    property name should be changed to be consistent with the Load Control
                    object property.
                    12. The Power property would be more useful for load shedding if it
                    was the instantaneous power consumption rather than maximum power
                    consumption.
                    Discussion: It might make it more useful, but it doesn't make it
                    invalid or bad by keeping it the way it is. We could add another
                    property.
                    13. The Binary_Active_Value, Binary_Inactive_Value and Polarity
                    properties should be removed from this object.
                    13a. Adding these properties adds significant confusion to the object
                    as it is unclear whether the object is an analog or binary lighting
                    object. It would be much more clear to have different objects for
                    binary and analog lighting.
                    13b. If these optional properties are in the object then the object
                    must behave as a binary lighting object. For manufacturers who have
                    static object definitions per device this is a problem as it means
                    that you cannot controller both analog and binary lights from a single
                    device.
                    Discussion: The language seems to prescribe the behavior even in the
                    case of analog lighting. What of the case of a dimmer which includes a
                    relay and could be used in either case? Change the language? The
                    functionality is necessary - whether it is necessary to expose and
                    define it is really the question. Should this functionality be moved
                    to a Binary Lighting object, or just add blink warn into Binary Output
                    as in Addendum i PPR1?
                    14. In the Elapsed_Active_Time property the statement "…that the
                    Present_Value has been ACTIVE since this property was most recently
                    set to a zero value" should be replaced with "…that the Present_Value
                    has been ACTIVE. This value is reset when a value of zero is written
                    to this property.". As it is written there may be confusion concerning
                    whether "this property" refers to the Present_Value property or the
                    Elapsed_Time_Property.
                    Discussion: Perhaps the language should be more clear and refer to
                    Present_Value by name.
                    15. Property descriptions of 12.x.22 – 12.x.26 should state "This
                    optional property…" to be consistent with the property table.
                    Discussion: yes, the table is correct.
                    16. The Min_Pres_Value property should have a value range of 0...100
                    rather than 1...100. What is the reasoning for restricting it to
                    non-zero values? The default for this should be 0.
                    Discussion: Minimum on value cannot be zero - but why? The default
                    value is currently undefined when this property is present. Is there a
                    use case for 0? Yes, it could be 0 if the property is present but the
                    functionality is not used. Perhaps 0 should be default, and allowed.
                    17. The Max_Pres_Value property should value a value range of 0...100.
                    The default value should be 100.
                    Discussion: The default value is currently undefined when this
                    property is present. Why is the range not using the full range? Is
                    there a use case for 100? Yes, it could be 100 if the property is
                    present but the functionality is not used. Perhaps 100 should be
                    default, and allowed.
                    Are Max_Pres_Value and Min_Pres_Value both really required to be
                    present? No, it seems they are not coupled, and there could be a use
                    case for having one and not the other. Are they really required to be
                    writable? There seem to be cases where it might be desirable to have
                    this property Read-Only when limiting outside applications.
                    18. The Power_On_Value and System_Failure_Value properties are
                    problematic because both are only used in the special case when
                    communication to a remote lighting device, which is being controlled
                    by this object, is lost. Neither of these properties has anything to
                    do with the functionality of this object and should be considered to
                    be outside of the scope of BACnet.
                    Discussion: We received PPR1 and comments from vendors who want to use
                    these in non-DALI remote systems, along with pre-PPR1 comments that
                    desired these properties to adequately model their DALI systems via
                    BACnet. Removing the DALI like properties would disenfranchise these
                    vendors.
                    18a. When communication is lost to the remote device should the object
                    take on the System_Failure_Value value? If so, at what priority should
                    it be written at in the priority array?
                    Discussion: These values are used as configuration values that the
                    output device uses before it sets the value from the Priority_Array)
                    In addition, Power_On_Value is confusing because its name implies that
                    this is the value the object will take on when the device starts up.
                    Discussion: The name is derived from the DALI property of the same name)
                    BACnet does not specify what the values of the Priority_Array are
                    after a power failure, and these values might be useful in that case
                    (for example, when Out of Service is TRUE and non-volatile). We could
                    also define a value that gets written to Priority_Array (at a specific
                    priority) upon power up when the Priority_Array is volatile. This
                    property might or might not be this property.

                    Discuss Addendum H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
                    Robert agreed to continue working towards providing a draft later in the year.

                    Lighting Application BIBB? 135.1 Testing additions?
                    This discussion was tabled until next meeting.

                    9.Discussion of Non-Agenda Items
                    10.Schedule for future meetings.
                    The group plans to meet at the next SSPC meeting in Salt Lake City in
                    June, 2008. The date and time of the meeting will be determined at a
                    later date.
                    11.Adjournment

                    Meeting minutes respectfully submitted by Robert Hick. Edits by Steve Karg.
                    --
                    http://steve.kargs.net/
                  • Steve Karg
                    Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! As proposed at our last meeting, the next scheduled meeting of the Lighting Applications working group will be at the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 12 7:13 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

                      As proposed at our last meeting, the next scheduled meeting of the
                      Lighting Applications working group will be at the Spring interim SSPC
                      meeting, which is being held at Montgomery College Germantown Campus
                      from May 10, 2010, through May 14, 2010. The Lighting Applications
                      working group will be meeting on Monday, May 10, 2010, from 1pm to 5pm
                      in GB105, and Tuesday, May 11, 2010, from 8am to 10am in GB106. Other
                      working groups will be meeting during the week as well, and SSPC 135
                      BACnet will meet on Thursday and Friday, May 13-14, 2010, in GB105.

                      The Lighting Applications working group Agenda will include the following items:
                      1. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 comment responses.
                      2. Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
                      3. Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
                      4. IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
                      applicability?
                      5. Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

                      Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
                      items to this mailing list.

                      Best Regards,

                      Steve Karg
                      Lithonia Lighting
                      --
                      Montgomery College is served by three major international airports in
                      the Washington, DC area, Baltimore-Washington International(BWI),
                      Dulles International(IAD) and Reagan National (DCA).

                      Our host arranged a block of rooms at the nearby Hampton Inn which is
                      within easy walking distance of the meetings.

                      Hampton Inn
                      20260 Goldenrod Lane
                      Germantown, MD 20876
                      Contact: Richard Petras, General Manager, e-mail: GermantownDOS@...
                      Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
                      Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
                      www.hamptoninngermantown.com
                      Group/Convention Code: ASH
                      Rate: $117.00 + tax (May 8, 2010 -May 16, 2009)
                      Location: The Hampton Inn is located on property adjacent to the
                      Germantown Campus and is a 2 block walk through parking lots that adjoin
                      the campus. Maps and directions can be found on the website.

                      Meeting Location:
                      Goldenrod Building (GB), Rooms GB105 & GB106
                      Goldenrod Lane
                      Germantown, Maryland 20876
                      Note: Goldenrod Building is across the street from the Hampton Inn on
                      Goldenrod Drive.
                      Contact: Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
                      Office Phone: Office Phone: +1 (240) 567-7375, Mobile Phone: +1 (301) 509-3723
                      e-mail: mike.whitcomb@...
                      http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/maps/gcamp.html
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