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Re: [BACnetLighting] Meeting in Orlando, Florida

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  • Steve Karg
    Hi BACnet Lighting Applications Working Group! Attached are the files that we will be discussing at Grosvenor Resort in Salons X/XI in Orlando, Florida at 8am
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 2, 2005
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      Hi BACnet Lighting Applications Working Group!

      Attached are the files that we will be discussing at Grosvenor Resort in
      Salons X/XI in Orlando, Florida at 8am on Sunday, February 6, 2005.
      Thank you for your hard work, David!

      DMF-019-4 revised to clarify use-case for BV with Lighting Blink
      Warning feature

      DMF-028-2 revised proposal for Famous and Reference Time in Schedules

      DMF-030-1 a new proposal for broadcast WriteGroup service and
      ControlGroup object that comes out of Lighting WG discussions

      I have also uploaded these files in PDF format to the files section of
      our Yahoo!Group, and they should also be available in Word format on the
      SSPC ftp server at ftp.bacnet.org in the LA-WG folder of the Orlando
      meeting folder.

      See you Sunday!

      Steve
      --
      http://kargs.net/
    • Steve Karg
      Hi BACnet Lighting Applications Working Group! Meeting Minutes (DRAFT) 06 February 2005 Orlando, Florida Participants - Affiliation ... The meeting was called
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 8, 2005
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        Hi BACnet Lighting Applications Working Group!

        Meeting Minutes (DRAFT)
        06 February 2005
        Orlando, Florida

        Participants - Affiliation
        --------------------------
        The meeting was called to order at 8am.

        A timekeeper (David Ritter) and a scribe (Robert Hicks) were assigned.

        The previous meeting minutes were reviewed and approved.

        The meeting agenda was reviewed and approved.

        Liason Reports
        Drew Reid and Robert Hick reported on NEMA activity:
        NEMA Joint Section Committee on DALI has voted to submit Part 1 only
        of the NEMA 243 DALI protocol for review. Decision to withhold Part 2
        (controls) until 3-byte protocol can be verified by prototyping.

        LA-WG proposal discussion:

        DMF019-4 Modifications to BO/BV
        David Fisher gave a quick overview of the changes – mostly
        additional
        verbage and other minor grammatical.

        Motion to move DMF019-4 to SSPC committee was seconded and passed.

        DMF028-02 Famous Times
        David Fisher recapped the issues and presented his new version of
        Famous Times
        David decided against writing proposal encoding the illegal time
        values. He has concerns that this bypasses the encoding mechanism of
        BACnet.
        This new proposal uses proper BACnet encoding and meets all the
        requirements.

        There was a discussion of why an ObjectPropertyReference was used
        instead of a DeviceObjectPropertyReference.

        There was a discussion of adding additional enumerations. It was
        decided that the current Sunrise and Sunset enumerations meet the
        needs of the lighting community, although others may be considered as
        proposal goes for comment.

        There was also a discussion that a variable offset may be desirable.

        Motion to move DMF028-2 to SSPC committee, as is, was seconded and
        passed.

        DMF030-1 WriteGroup Service
        David Fisher presented this proposal as a solution to the requirement
        in lighting systems to change a large number of values quickly. This
        service would be an unconfirmed broadcast service using GroupNumber
        and Mode. All devices that contain a matching GroupNumber would
        change Mode simultaneously.

        There was a suggestion to add an"RSVP" property to the
        service to
        request return acknowledgement packets. It was noted that an
        unsubscribed COV may serve the same purpose.

        A discussion ensued about whether this proposal meets the requirements
        of the lighting community. It was decided that this proposal may solve
        the issue of selecting lighting "presets", but there was
        still a need
        for an object that would allow many individual values to be set to
        individual levels in one packet, similar to DMX512. This object may be
        similar to an "unconfirmed" WritePropertyMultiple. The
        features that
        are desirable (in addition to broadcast) are:

        1. Sending values or levels (and possibly a complex structure).
        2. Send the value or level at a priority
        3. Receive an acknowledgement from all the devices that received the
        command (Similar to Who-Is, I-Am).

        The need for this new object to contain a device list and range of
        devices was discussed and it was suggested that this may be dangerous
        and using a group number or class to identify the participants may be
        a better idea.

        David Fisher will going to go back and think this over and make a
        suggestion on how we may accomplish this.

        Future Meeting
        The next meeting was planned for the next time SSPC during the week of
        April 25-29, 2005, at Montgomery College in Germantown, Maryland.
        Steve Karg will post the exact date and time to the BACnetLighting
        e-mail list.

        Submitted by Robert Hick with edits by Steve Karg. Please post any
        comments or corrections to this draft of the minutes.
      • Steve Karg
        Hi BACnet Lighting Applications Working Group! ... Steve Karg - Lithonia Lighting Robert Hick - Leviton Lighting David Fisher - Polarsoft Alban Cambournac -
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 14, 2005
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          Hi BACnet Lighting Applications Working Group!

          A couple of corrections to the minutes:

          > Participants - Affiliation
          > --------------------------

          Steve Karg - Lithonia Lighting
          Robert Hick - Leviton Lighting
          David Fisher - Polarsoft
          Alban Cambournac - Square D
          Drew Reid - Square D
          Andy Bratko - York
          René Quirighetti - Siemens
          Steve Treado - NIST
          David White - Tour Andover Controls
          Jerry Martocci - Johnson Controls
          David Ritter - Delta Controls
          David Holmberg - NIST
          Shiyuan Xiao - NIST
          Michael VN Hall - Lutron
          Amar Parmar - Lutron
          Damian Ljungquist - JDL Business Services

          > A timekeeper (David Ritter) and
          > a scribe (Robert Hicks) were assigned.

          Robert Hick (not Hicks).

          Best Regards,

          Steve Karg
          Lithonia Lighting
        • Steve Karg
          Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group! We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2009, from 8am to 5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando,
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 6, 2010
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            Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group!

            We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2009, from 8am to
            5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
            rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
            Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. I don't have our room assignments
            yet - but will post them when I get them.

            The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
            23, 2009 and Monday, January 25, 2009. Other BACnet working group
            meetings will be held on Thursday, Friday, Sunday (January 21, 22, 24)

            LA-WG agenda items:

            1. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
            Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
            fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
            Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
            "Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
            2. Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
            3. Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
            4. IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors -
            BACnet applicability?
            5. Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

            Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
            items to this mailing list.

            Best Regards,

            Steve Karg
            The Watt Stopper / Legrand
            --
            http://steve.kargs.net/
          • Steve Karg
            Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group, Happy New Year! I am resending my meeting announcment with the year corrected... We are scheduled to meet on Thursday
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 7, 2010
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              Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group,

              Happy New Year! I am resending my meeting announcment with the year corrected...

              We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2010, from 8am to
              5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
              rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
              Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. I don't have our room assignments
              yet - but will post them when I get them.

              The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
              23, 2010 and Monday, January 25, 2010. Other BACnet working group
              meetings will be held on Thursday, Friday, Sunday (January 21, 22, 24)

              LA-WG agenda items:
              1.     SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
                    Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
              fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
              Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
              "Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
              2.     Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
              3.     Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
              4.     IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
              applicability?
              5.     Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

              Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
              items to this mailing list.

              Best Regards,

              Steve Karg
              The Watt Stopper / Legrand
              --
              http://steve.kargs.net/
            • Steve Karg
              Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group, I am resending my meeting announcement with the room assignments added. We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21,
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 11, 2010
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                Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group,

                I am resending my meeting announcement with the room assignments added.

                We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2010, from 8am to
                5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
                rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
                Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. We will meet in the Wekiwa 4 meeting
                room.

                The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
                23, 2010 in the Wekiwa 5 meeting room, and Monday, January 25, 2010,
                in the Suannee 15 meeting room. Other BACnet working group meetings
                will be held on Thursday, Friday (Wekiwa 1, Suanee11 meeting rooms),
                and Sunday (Wekiwa 7 and Wekiwa 2 meeting rooms) (January 21, 22, 24).

                LA-WG agenda items:
                1.     SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
                      Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
                fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
                Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
                "Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
                2.     Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
                3.     Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
                4.     IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
                applicability?
                5.     Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

                Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
                items to this mailing list.

                Best Regards,

                Steve Karg
                The Watt Stopper / Legrand
                --
                http://steve.kargs.net/
              • David Ritter
                Hi Steve, Could you send out the latest draft version of Addendum i to the group? Thanks. See you all in Orlando. David From: BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 12, 2010
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                  Hi Steve,

                   

                  Could you send out the latest draft version of Addendum i to the group? Thanks.

                   

                  See you all in Orlando.

                   

                  David

                   

                   

                  From: BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Karg
                  Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:45 PM
                  To: BACnet Lighting Working Group
                  Subject: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida

                   

                   

                  Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group,

                  Happy New Year! I am resending my meeting announcment with the year corrected...

                  We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2010, from 8am to
                  5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
                  rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
                  Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. I don't have our room assignments
                  yet - but will post them when I get them.

                  The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
                  23, 2010 and Monday, January 25, 2010. Other BACnet working group
                  meetings will be held on Thursday, Friday, Sunday (January 21, 22, 24)

                  LA-WG agenda items:
                  1.     SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
                        Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
                  fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
                  Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
                  "Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
                  2.     Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
                  3.     Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
                  4.     IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
                  applicability?
                  5.     Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

                  Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
                  items to this mailing list.

                  Best Regards,

                  Steve Karg
                  The Watt Stopper / Legrand
                  --
                  http://steve.kargs.net/

                • Christoph Zeller
                  Hi Steve and all, I suggest to distribute additional proposals (DALI-Mapping for example) to group as well. Thanks Christoph Christoph Zeller Abt. NT Fr.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 12, 2010
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                    Hi Steve and all,
                    I suggest to distribute additional proposals (DALI-Mapping for example) to
                    group as well.
                    Thanks Christoph

                    Christoph Zeller
                    Abt. NT
                    Fr. Sauter AG
                    Im Surinam 55, CH-4016 Basel
                    Telefon +41 (0)61 695 55 55
                    Telefax +41 (0)61 695 56 19
                    http://www.sauter-controls.com

                    DISCLAIMER:
                    This communication, and the information it contains is for the sole use of
                    the intended recipient. It is confidential, may be legally privileged and
                    protected by law. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any part
                    thereof may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,
                    please destroy all copies and kindly notify the sender.

                    Before printing out this e-mail or its attachments, please consider
                    whether
                    it is really necessary to do so.
                    Using less paper helps the environment.




                    Von:
                    "David Ritter" <dritter@...>
                    An:
                    <BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com>
                    Datum:
                    12.01.2010 23:16
                    Betreff:
                    RE: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida
                    Gesendet von:
                    BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com




                    Hi Steve,

                    Could you send out the latest draft version of Addendum i to the group?
                    Thanks.

                    See you all in Orlando.

                    David


                    From: BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com [
                    mailto:BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Karg
                    Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:45 PM
                    To: BACnet Lighting Working Group
                    Subject: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida


                    Hello BACnet Lighting Working Group,

                    Happy New Year! I am resending my meeting announcment with the year
                    corrected...

                    We are scheduled to meet on Thursday January 21, 2010, from 8am to
                    5pm, at the ASHRAE Winter Conference in Orlando, Florida. All meeting
                    rooms are in the the conference hotel: The Rosen Shingle Creek at 9939
                    Universal Blvd, Orlando, Florida. I don't have our room assignments
                    yet - but will post them when I get them.

                    The plenary meetings for SSPC-135 BACnet will be on Saturday, January
                    23, 2010 and Monday, January 25, 2010. Other BACnet working group
                    meetings will be held on Thursday, Friday, Sunday (January 21, 22, 24)

                    LA-WG agenda items:
                    1. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 revision
                    Approve the revised text for SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i for the
                    fourth public review for the Lighting Output object and its friends.
                    Draft is available in Files section of Yahoo Groups as
                    "Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft 7.doc" file.
                    2. Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
                    3. Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum
                    W)
                    4. IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
                    applicability?
                    5. Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

                    Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
                    items to this mailing list.

                    Best Regards,

                    Steve Karg
                    The Watt Stopper / Legrand
                    --
                    http://steve.kargs.net/
                  • Steve Karg
                    Hello Christoph and David, ... All the proposals we are discussing have been available on the Yahoo Groups site since our last meeting in November, 2009. I
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 13, 2010
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                      Hello Christoph and David,

                      > I suggest to distribute additional proposals (DALI-Mapping for example) to
                      > group as well.

                      All the proposals we are discussing have been available on the Yahoo
                      Groups site since our last meeting in November, 2009. I have also
                      sent the proposals, agenda, and meeting minutes to the BACnet FTP site
                      maintainer for our Orlando meeting.

                      DALI Mapping
                      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/RLH-001.pdf

                      Latest draft version of 2008 Addendum i
                      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft
                      7.doc

                      See you in Orlando!

                      Best Regards,

                      Steve
                      --
                      http://steve.kargs.net/
                    • Christoph Zeller
                      Hi Steve, the RLH-001.pdf is dated 15 June 2009. This is significantly older than our last meeting. Is it still the valid one? Thanks Christoph Christoph
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 13, 2010
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                        Hi Steve,
                        the RLH-001.pdf is dated 15 June 2009.
                        This is significantly older than our last meeting.
                        Is it still the valid one?
                        Thanks Christoph


                        Christoph Zeller
                        Abt. NT
                        Fr. Sauter AG
                        Im Surinam 55, CH-4016 Basel
                        Telefon +41 (0)61 695 55 55
                        Telefax +41 (0)61 695 56 19
                        http://www.sauter-controls.com

                        DISCLAIMER:
                        This communication, and the information it contains is for the sole use of
                        the intended recipient. It is confidential, may be legally privileged and
                        protected by law. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any part
                        thereof may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,
                        please destroy all copies and kindly notify the sender.

                        Before printing out this e-mail or its attachments, please consider
                        whether
                        it is really necessary to do so.
                        Using less paper helps the environment.




                        Von:
                        Steve Karg <steve@...>
                        An:
                        BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com
                        Datum:
                        13.01.2010 16:59
                        Betreff:
                        Re: RE: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida
                        Gesendet von:
                        BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com




                        Hello Christoph and David,

                        > I suggest to distribute additional proposals (DALI-Mapping for example)
                        to
                        > group as well.

                        All the proposals we are discussing have been available on the Yahoo
                        Groups site since our last meeting in November, 2009. I have also
                        sent the proposals, agenda, and meeting minutes to the BACnet FTP site
                        maintainer for our Orlando meeting.

                        DALI Mapping
                        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/RLH-001.pdf

                        Latest draft version of 2008 Addendum i
                        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BACnetLighting/files/Add-135-2008i-PPR4-Draft

                        7.doc

                        See you in Orlando!

                        Best Regards,

                        Steve
                        --
                        http://steve.kargs.net/
                      • Steve Karg
                        Hello Christoph, ... We have not discussed this proposal in a long time, and there have been no revisions posted by Rick or Robert. The RLH-001 posted on
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 13, 2010
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                          Hello Christoph,

                          > the RLH-001.pdf is dated 15 June 2009.
                          > This is significantly older than our last meeting.
                          > Is it still the valid one?

                          We have not discussed this proposal in a long time, and there have
                          been no revisions posted by Rick or Robert. The RLH-001 posted on
                          Yahoo Groups is the latest file that I have.

                          Best Regards,

                          Steve
                          --
                          http://steve.kargs.net/
                        • Christoph Zeller
                          Dear all, I was rereading the draft 7 for the Addendum i. As follow the concerns I found in the document: - Chapter 12.X.9 paragraph 2 (just under the table
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 14, 2010
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                            Dear all,
                            I was rereading the draft 7 for the Addendum i.
                            As follow the concerns I found in the document:

                            - Chapter 12.X.9 paragraph 2 (just under the table 12-Y)
                            ... or the priority field of the LIghtingCommand if present

                            The concept I see is that if this field in the lighting command is
                            present its this content to be used, if the field is not present in the
                            lighting command then
                            the property priority is used. Which one of the two has the priority
                            might not be clear enough (although you should be able to correclty guess
                            from the context).
                            I would suggest add a paragraph generally describing this behaviour and
                            not repeating it on all occasions (with slightly different language in the
                            next paragraph).
                            It should be considered to change the language for all such fields of
                            the lighting command.
                            One possible solution to make it even more clear is to rename the
                            corresponding properties to Default_xxx.

                            - Chapter 12.X.15.1 Blink Warning Behaviour
                            I guess that the description of auto-reliquish is not behaving as
                            expected:
                            Example: We have a priority Array with one populated Entry of 100% at
                            priority 12. All other entries are NULL.
                            Now we are writing 0% to priority 8 which triggers blink warning. Blink
                            Warning is inserting 0% to priority 6 for Blink-Time.
                            Next 100% is written to priority 6 to restore the previous level for
                            Warn-Delay seconds. Then priority 6 should be relinquished.
                            Unfortunately with the language written we are relinquishing priority 8
                            which results in 100% (Why did we had a Blink-Warning?)
                            There might be more ambiguities with auto-relinquish I was not checking
                            all occurences so far.

                            The critical point with interference with COV-Notifications is still not
                            resolved!

                            - Chapter 12.X.30/31
                            introducing a new concept of automatically readjust min_pres_value and
                            max_pres_value if they are commanded to opposite directions.
                            In all other objects this is not done and potentially controversal
                            during public review (Analog Output Objects are not mentioning it).
                            If we introduce it here, we should consider introducing the same
                            mechanism to all other opjects as well.

                            See you soon in Orlando
                            Regards
                            Christoph



                            Christoph Zeller
                            Abt. NT
                            Fr. Sauter AG
                            Im Surinam 55, CH-4016 Basel
                            Telefon +41 (0)61 695 55 55
                            Telefax +41 (0)61 695 56 19
                            http://www.sauter-controls.com

                            DISCLAIMER:
                            This communication, and the information it contains is for the sole use of
                            the intended recipient. It is confidential, may be legally privileged and
                            protected by law. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any part
                            thereof may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,
                            please destroy all copies and kindly notify the sender.

                            Before printing out this e-mail or its attachments, please consider
                            whether
                            it is really necessary to do so.
                            Using less paper helps the environment.




                            Von:
                            Steve Karg <steve@...>
                            An:
                            BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com
                            Datum:
                            13.01.2010 18:13
                            Betreff:
                            Re: Re: RE: [BACnetLighting] Re: Meeting in Orlando, Florida
                            Gesendet von:
                            BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com




                            Hello Christoph,

                            > the RLH-001.pdf is dated 15 June 2009.
                            > This is significantly older than our last meeting.
                            > Is it still the valid one?

                            We have not discussed this proposal in a long time, and there have
                            been no revisions posted by Rick or Robert. The RLH-001 posted on
                            Yahoo Groups is the latest file that I have.

                            Best Regards,

                            Steve
                            --
                            http://steve.kargs.net/
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