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Re: Meeting in Norfolk, Virginia

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  • Steve Karg
    Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! If you were unable to make lodging reservations at the Navy Lodge by the deadline (September 20, 2004) for our meeting
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 21, 2004
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      Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

      If you were unable to make lodging reservations at the Navy Lodge by
      the deadline (September 20, 2004) for our meeting in Norfolk, Virgina,
      on Tuesday, October 5, 2004, you can still reserve lodging off-base.
      There are two nice motels just outside of Gate 4:

      (1) Howard Johnsons on 5173 Shore Drive Virginia Beach, VA, 23455 US,
      Phone (757) 460-1151 or 1-800-446-4656.

      (2) Comfort Inn on 5189 Shore Dr. , Virginia Beach, VA, US, 23455,
      Phone: (757) 460-5566 or 1-800-228-5150

      Of course there are many other hotels in the area but these are very
      close and convenient.

      Best Regards,

      Steve Karg
      Lighting Applications Working Group
      770-860-3741 (work)
      770-262-3095 (cell)
    • Steve Karg
      BACnet - Lighting Applications Working Group Meeting Minutes 5 October 2004 Norfolk, Virginia Participants - Affiliation ... Steve Karg - Lithonia Lighting
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 13, 2004
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        BACnet - Lighting Applications Working Group
        Meeting Minutes
        5 October 2004
        Norfolk, Virginia

        Participants - Affiliation
        Steve Karg - Lithonia Lighting
        Robert Hick - Leviton Lighting
        David Fisher - Polarsoft
        Pete Baselici - The Wattstopper
        Steve Bushby - NIST

        The meeting was called to order at 8:40am after introductions and
        greetings from our hosts.

        We reviewed the minutes of the last meeting. David Fisher pointed out
        correction: DMF011-13 should be DMF011-3. The minutes were approved
        as amended.

        The meeting agenda was reviewed and approved.

        Liason Reports
        Pete Baselici reported on NEMA activity. DALI protocol development is
        proceeding. Work is being done on selecting parameter banks. The new
        joint committee DALI protocol allows multiple controllers. NEMA
        working with IES protocol committee.
        Steve Bushby reported on a NIST-IAR (inter agency report) on lighting
        applications written by Steve Treado that is due to be published soon.

        LA-WG submitted proposal discussion
        Steve Karg proposed that this committee drop DMF-018-3 in favor of
        DMF-011-6 and DMF-019-3. Reported consensus at Nashville was that
        DMF-018-3 and DMF-019-3 were redundant if DMF-011-6 was adopted and
        therefore not necessary. Group discussion ensued and consensus
        emerged that 019 contains simple changes to BO BV that may provide
        easy way for mfg to provide on/off lighting control. Group discussed
        about when to implement BO / BV instead of LO object. Steve Bushby
        moved to abandon DMF-018-3 and retain DMF-019-3 and DMF-011-6 (vote 5
        for and 0 against). David Fisher agreed to add language to DMF-019-03
        to clarify the use case for BV in addition to BO.

        Multiplexer Object proposal STK-004 and Tripped Breaker Status
        proposal STK-015 are in the queue for SSPC-135 review.

        Scheduling Famous Times
        David Fisher presented DMF-028-1 for Famous Times. He explained of
        use of "Offsets" as time value relative to Famous time. This proposal
        may additionally require the rewriting of several clauses in the
        schedule object. David Fisher suggested an alternate method of
        encoding of BACnetTimeValue which would utilize the illegal values.
        The group discussed how to handle a reference time versus an
        enumerated famous time and their possible encoding format.

        Hours | Minutes | Seconds | Hundredths
        Legal | | |
        Values 0-59 | 0-59 | 0-59 | 0-99
        Famous | Famous |
        Time 0xFE | time |16 bit signed offset
        | enum. |
        Referenced |Reference|
        Time 0xFD |array |16 bit signed offset
        |index |

        The group discussed the use of the 16 bit signed integer offset, and
        decided that it should have a limited value of +/- 720 minutes, rather
        than an unlimited value of a signed 16 bit integer (+/- 32768).

        The famous times enumeration was discussed, and it seems that
        initially only Sunrise and Sunset may be necessary. The group decided
        that the enumeration should include 0-127 as reserved BACnet Famous
        Times (ASHRAE reserved values) and 128-255 to allow additions.
        Consensus of the group was to go ahead and create proposal without
        adding the 135.1 testing requirements to the proposal in order to
        float the idea to the committee.
        David Fisher will produce DMF-028-2 based on these ideas.

        Speed of Lighting Control on the Wire.
        Steve Karg described problems he had with sluggishness of BACnet
        lighting control. One of his solutions was to use asynchronous
        WriteProperty services instead of synchronous. Robert Hick described
        need for 125ms response time within field of view (i.e. Ballroom).
        Steve Karg reviewed several protocols used in lighting control:
        1) DMX 512 which sends a variable length frame which contains the
        lighting level for up to 512 devices at 250kbps giving up to 49
        updates per second to all devices on the wire. The protocol is a
        single master protocol. It is the industry standard for theatrical
        2) Proprietary protocol 1 sends a variable length frame containing a
        fade time and up to 128 lighting levels (frames can be chained for up
        to 2048 lighting levels). The protocol operates at 38.4Kbps and gives
        about 300 updates in 100ms. The protocol is a multi-master token
        passing protocol.
        3) Proprietary protocol 2 sends a variable length frame containing a
        lighting level and a fade time that affects up to 16 devices and
        operates at 57.6kbps. The protocol operates as a single master with
        slave reply.
        4) The DALI protocol runs at 1200 bps, and can have up to 64 nodes on
        the wire. The protocol is designed for multiple masters, and the
        lighting devices act as slaves which can reply. The lighting devices
        can also be members of groups and can also store scene level

        Problems with MS/TP and 156kbps ARCNET speed seem to stem from the
        size of the packet, the waiting for acknowledgements, and sending
        individual packets to each device. What might possibly work is some
        sort of unconfirmed broadcast write service. Another suggestion is
        using a "group number," which may not address setting light to
        different levels. There was a side discussion of how some
        manufacturers store presets levels at the control device versus
        storing the preset levels at the dimmer/relay device. The group
        discussed the need of other BACnet control sectors that may need a
        fast unconfirmed broadcast write. It was suggested that we start by
        defining way of accessing presets or scenes.

        David Fisher agreed to write a proposal for a broadcast group write of

        Modeling enable/disable ON/OFF using out-of-service
        Steve Karg discussed need for way to model the disabling control
        stations or individual buttons. David Fisher suggested that BACnet
        "overridden" would be more appropriate than out-of-service.

        The next meeting is planned for Orlando, Florida sometime around
        February 5-9.

        Submitted by Robert Hick with edits by David Fisher and Steve Karg.
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