Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Meeting in Germantown, Maryland

Expand Messages
  • Steve Karg
    Greetings Lighting Application working group! Our meeting in Germantown, Maryland, was quite successful. And that was just the snacks and drinks! Most of the
    Message 1 of 12 , May 18, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings Lighting Application working group!

      Our meeting in Germantown, Maryland, was quite successful. And that
      was just the snacks and drinks! Most of the proposals were discussed,
      modified, voted on, and sent on to the full SSPC 135 BACnet committee.
      Attached are the meeting minutes (kindly taken by Steve Treado).

      The updated proposals will be posted on the Yahoo!Groups site under
      the files, as well as under the SSPC 135 Active Proposals.

      Best Regards,

      Steve Karg
      Lithonia Lighting
      --------------------------
      BACnet - Lighting Applications Working Group
      Meeting Minutes
      April 29, 2004
      Germantown, Maryland

      Participants - Affiliation
      --------------------------
      David Ritter - Delta Controls
      Steve Karg - Lithonia Lighting
      Steve Treado - NIST
      Robert Hick - Leviton Lighting
      David Fisher - Polarsoft
      Pete Baselici - The Wattstopper
      Steve Bushby - NIST

      The meeting was called to order at 8:15 by convener Steve Karg
      Minutes from Anaheim were approved.
      Reviewed meeting agenda
      Meeting agenda approved

      Update on NEMA standard 243, DALI control devices protocol:

      New features- 2 to 3 bytes, single master
      DALI products are now being offered by Tridonic, Starfield, Leviton
      and Wattstopper.
      Advance is bringing out a new DALI ballast
      A discussion followed regarding strengthening ties to the DALI working
      group of the NEMA Controls Council
      Suggestion: Update the DALI committee on BACnet LAWG activities when
      they meet in two weeks
      ACTION ITEM: Steve Treado will draft a paper discussing the
      relationship between BACnet and DALI protocols and applications

      LAWG Proposal discussions:

      STK004 - Multiplexor object
      Principle allows writing select data types beyond lighting
      DR: What time frames are involved and how is completion presented?
      Suggested change: If an attempt is made to modify list of write
      access results (WAR) while write is in process, the list shall be
      tagged as in-process
      If the list of WAR is read during execution, uncompleted write status
      will return in-process
      STK004-12 was updated and reposted; will incorporate figure into
      proposal
      The multiplexor object was approved as modified for full committee
      review.

      DMF011-13-Lighting Output Object
      DF revised lighting output object and created new material to modify
      existing analog output and analog value objects. Both approaches will
      be sent forward for main committee review.
      New approach creates new property, lighting command object
      Lighting output object type
      Commands are interruptible based on priority
      Discussion on performance of relinquish and priority
      Some DALI functions are not included:
      Step up and off/on
      Step down and off/on
      Recall max level
      Recall min level
      Arc power
      What does arc power mean for DALI? Measured or calculated?
      Discussion:
      How should AO, BO etc. be incorporated with lighting subclasses?
      Decided:
      Proceed with three objects
      Add blink warn to BO
      Add lighting control functionality to AO, AV
      Additions to lighting output object:
      1.power level- yes
      2.threshold- no
      3.number of strikes?
      4.run time?
      Five properties from BO will be added to proposal
      Discussion on whether to include min and max level
      Decided to include as clamping values, optional and writable
      Should fading and ramping be added to list of definitions? Yes
      Added min and max level language to proposal
      Added footnote for required writability

      Discussion on warning blink time, delay and priority:
      Reworded to account for priority array effects
      SK suggestion:
      Blink delay of zero means infinite delay (i.e. blink only, no lights
      off)
      Lighting output object was approved for full committee review

      Future possibility: timed switch object or informative annex

      DMF 018 and DMF 019 will be modified to reflect the changes in DMF 011
      and sent to full committee

      Discussion:
      How should LAWG present the three proposals to the full committee?
      Decision: The LAWG is in favor of the lighting output object because
      it should be more attractive to the lighting control community and
      will not overload the AO and AV objects. The downside of this
      approach is that a lot of the functionality is already present in the
      existing objects.

      Discussion of Annex H:

      Mapping to EIB dimming actuator
      SB suggestion: Take no action until new lighting objects are released
      for review
      DF: No major problems with the mapping concept

      Dawn Dusk Scheduler:

      How to program variable time values into schedules, perhaps by using a
      pointer from the schedule object
      Proposal BACnet "famous times":
      BACnet Time Value pointing to variable time output of calculation,
      fixed time or any other time source
      Minor discussion of STK-012: Even and Odd days of the Month (submit to
      full committee).
      ACTION ITEM: DF will write up proposal- simple change, great increase
      in flexibility
      Will post for LAWG review, and then send to full committee

      STK 015: Tripped Breaker Status:

      Add new enumerations to reliability indicator-
      mechanical open
      mechanical closed
      forced on
      tripped
      SB: tripped makes sense - others are too similar to overridden.
      ACTION ITEM: SK will revise text

      DMF 005:
      Simple value object- Similar to BACnet primitive data object except
      for date/time
      ACTION ITEM: DF will revise and post for LAWG review, then forward to
      full committee

      Next meeting? Decided to skip Nashville ASHRAE meeting since we have
      little to discuss and SSPC BACnet has a lot of our stuff to approve.
      DF suggestion: Summit/workshop for lighting control stakeholders.
      Where? When?

      Meeting adjourned

      Submitted by Steve Treado with edits by Steve Karg.
    • Steve Karg
      Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being held
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 14, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

        As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be
        at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being held at Montgomery College
        Germantown Campus. Other working groups will be meeting as well.

        Our hosts are arranging for a block of rooms at the nearby Hampton
        Inn; the details will be posted when they are ready.

        The meeting schedule is as follows:
        Mon 4/25: 8A - 5P BTL-WG HTSC 216

        Tue 4/26: 8A - 5P LSS-WG (1) HSS 007
        8A - 12N BTL-WG HTSC 216
        1P - 5P MSTP-WG HTSC 216

        Wed 4/27: 8A - 12N NS-WG HTSC 216
        8A - 12N AP-WG HSS 007
        1P- 5P XML-WG HTSC 216

        Thu 4/28: 8A - 5P LSS-WG (2) HSS 007
        8A - 12N OS-WG (1) HTSC 216
        1P - 5P LA-WG HTSC 216
        1P - 5P UI-WG HTSC Lobby

        Fri 4/29: 8A - 12N OS-WG (2) HTSC 216

        Please let Bill Swan <mailto:Bill.Swan@...> know if you plan
        on attending, so he can come up with a rough head count in advance.

        Best Regards,

        Steve Karg
        Lithonia Lighting

        ------------------
        Preliminary agenda
        ------------------

        Lighting Applications Working Group
        BACnet working groups interim meetings
        HT Globe Hall
        Montgomery College, Germantown Campus
        Germantown, Maryland

        The Lighting Applications working group will meet from 1 PM Thursday,
        April 28th until 5 PM, in HTSC 216 of HT Globe Hall.

        Thursday, April 28, 2005.
        ---------------
        1.Opening remarks (1:00 pm - 5 minutes)
        2.Circulation of attendance sheet. Introduction of those present.
        (1:05 pm - 5minutes)
        3.Meeting role assignments (1:10 pm - 5minutes)
        time keeper
        scribe
        non-agenda item attendant
        4.Approval of the minutes from the previous meeting. (1:15 pm - 5
        minutes)
        5.Discussion and approval of the agenda for this meeting. (1:20 pm -
        5 minutes)
        6.Liason reports. (1:25 pm - 5 minutes)
        7.LA-WG proposal discussion / resolution via consensus (1:30 pm - 3.5
        hours)
        * DMF-028-2 - offset in weekly schedule
        * Speed of lighting control on the wire
        -- Broadcast group write of mode
        -- Fast unconfirmed broadcast write service
        8.Break (2:30 pm - 7 minutes)
        9.Break (3:30 pm - 7 minutes)
        10.Break (4:30 pm - 7 minutes)
        11.Discussion of Non-Agenda Items (4:37pm - 13 minutes)
        12.Schedule and agenda for future meetings.(4:50pm - 10 minutes)
        13.Adjournment (5:00pm)
        ==================
      • Steve Karg
        The Lighting Applications working group will meet from 1 PM Thursday, April 28th until 5 PM, in HTSC 216 of HT Globe Hall at Montgomery College Germantown
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 17, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          The Lighting Applications working group will meet from 1 PM Thursday,
          April 28th until 5 PM, in HTSC 216 of HT Globe Hall at Montgomery
          College Germantown Campus. Other BACnet working groups will be
          meeting at various times during the same week.

          Location
          --------
          Montgomery College Germantown Campus
          20200 Observation Drive
          Germantown, Maryland 20876

          Directions
          ----------
          http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/
          Look under directories, maps & directions. Located just northwest of
          Washington, DC, off of Interstate I-270 North.

          Parking
          -------
          Park in any white line space on campus.

          Local Contact
          -------------
          Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
          Energy Manager
          Montgomery College
          900 Hungerford Drive
          Rockville, Maryland, 20850
          Office Phone: +1 (301) 251-737
          Office Fax: +1 (301) 251-7379
          Mobile Phone: +1 (301) 509-3723
          mailto:mwhitcom@...

          Airports
          --------
          Served by three airports in the Washington, DC area,
          Baltimore-Washington International(BWI), Dulles International(IAD) and
          Reagan National (DCA).

          Mass Transit
          ------------
          Located just north (approximately 10 miles) of the Red Line, Shady
          Grove Metro Station. The Metro is the subway rail system serving the
          DC metro area. A shuttle service (5 mile radius) is available from
          the Hampton Inn.

          Hotel
          -----
          Hampton Inn
          20260 Goldenrod Lane
          Germantown, MD 20876
          Hotel Contact: Giulia
          Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
          Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
          website: http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
          Block: ASHRAE
          Rate: $109.00 + tax
          Location: Get maps and directions from the hotel website. The Hampton
          Inn is located on property adjacent to the Germantown Campus and is a
          5 minute walk through parking lots that adjoin the campus to the
          meeting rooms.
        • Steve Karg
          Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! I have been advised that the block of rooms at the Hampton Inn are reserved under the name Mike Whitcomb, not ASHRAE.
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 17, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

            I have been advised that the block of rooms at the Hampton Inn are
            reserved under the name Mike Whitcomb, not ASHRAE. Give them both
            and it works just fine.

            Hampton Inn
            20260 Goldenrod Lane
            Germantown, MD 20876
            Hotel Contact: Giulia
            Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
            Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
            website: http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
            Block: Mike Whitcomb and ASHRAE
            Rate: $109.00 + tax
            Location: Get maps and directions from the hotel website. The
            Hampton Inn is located on property adjacent to the Germantown Campus
            and is a 5 minute walk through parking lots that adjoin the campus
            to the meeting rooms.

            Best Regards,

            Steve Karg
            Lithonia Lighting
          • Steve Karg
            Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! Here are the draft minutes of our meeting in Germantown, Maryland. Please post any corrections to this list:
            Message 5 of 12 , May 16, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

              Here are the draft minutes of our meeting in Germantown, Maryland.
              Please post any corrections to this list:
              mailto:BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com

              Steve

              =======================

              Meeting Minutes (DRAFT)
              28 April 2005
              Germantown, Maryland

              Participants - Affiliation
              --------------------------
              Steve Karg - Lithonia Lighting
              Craig Spangler - Square D
              Robert Hick - Leviton Lighting
              Jack Neyer - Polarsoft
              David Fisher - Polarsoft
              Bill Jennings - NAVFAC MIDLANT
              Ernie Bryant - NAVFAC MIDLANT
              Don Gottschalk - Johnson Controls
              Pete Baselici - The WattStopper
              Bob Johnson - Siemens Bldg. Tech.
              Steve Treado - NIST

              The meeting was called to order at 1pm.

              A timekeeper (Pete Baselici) and a scribe (Robert Hicks) were assigned.
              Don Gottschalk was volunteered to track the non-agenda items.

              Review of minutes - approved

              Meeting agenda approved

              Liason Reports
              Robert Hick reported no NEMA DALI activity since last meeting:

              LA-WG proposal discussion:

              DMF028-02 Famous Times
              David Fisher reported that problems have been discovered with DMF028-02
              and requested that we withdraw and table this proposal until we enlist
              help from other working groups, such as the OS group. All agreed.

              DMF030-3 WriteGroup Service
              David Fisher presented this revision to his original proposal as a
              partial solution to the requirement in lighting systems to change a
              large number of values quickly.

              Primary change was the addition of an acknowledgement mechanism and
              supporting services. Whereas, if the sender required an acknowledgement
              from the group members, the sender would include a REPLY REQUESTED ID.
              The group members would be required to reply through a WriteGroupAck
              service.

              It was noted that control mode is similar to activating "presets" in a
              lighting control system and that a device may have membership in
              multiple groups. The broadcast may be sent locally, to a remote BACnet
              network number, or using the global BACnet network address.

              There was a question about returning error codes. It was decided that
              error codes may be difficult to define and may be unnecessary.

              There was discussion about why the current Command Object could not be
              modified to accomplish the same. The conclusion was that the Command
              Object was unsuitable.

              There was also a question concerning how long to wait for replies. The
              decision was to leave it unspecified and a local matter.

              Motion to move DMF030-3 to SSPC committee, as is, was seconded and
              passed with no opposed and one abstaining.

              Speed of Lighting Control on the Wire.

              Furthering the discussion from last meeting.

              There is still a need in the lighting community for a service that would
              allow many individual values to be set to individual levels in one
              packet, similar to DMX512.
              David Fisher presented his notes on a concept for a GroupWriteMultiple
              service. David’s concept involved "slots" that may be configured in
              each dimmer or switching device.

              Three possible methods were described:
              Method 1 - Typical BACnet tagged approach.
              Method 2 - Use only one datatype, map is local matter.
              Method 3 - Octet string, canonically encoded.

              The third method was most efficient, but was furthest from BACnet norms.
              It was noted that MSTP networks would limit the packet size to 480
              bytes, so efficiency was very important. It was suggested that the
              service needs to address at least 100 values in a packet.

              It was also suggested that a separate priority need not be sent with
              each value, and that 8 bit data may be sufficient for lighting control
              but may not be sufficient for other uses.

              Steve Karg and Robert Hick presented an example of a typical case for
              the use of this service where a ballroom may be serviced by partial
              number of outputs from several dimmer cabinets. The "slot" concept was
              questioned and a more global "channel" assignment similar to DMX was
              discussed. Whereas, each output of dimmer or switching devices would be
              configured locally with an identifier, commonly referred to as a
              "channel number" in the lighting community. The identifier may be
              unique, or several outputs may have the same identifier if the outputs
              were designed to always operate in tandem. The GroupWriteMultiple
              service would utilize Method 3 and encode the Values as "GroupChannel,
              Value, GroupChannel, Value, etc".

              Further discussion resolved that both the GroupChannel and GroupValue
              should be an unsigned 16bit. It was also decided that a single priority
              should be included as an overall priority for the packet. Relinquish
              would be handled as a specially encoded value such as 0xFFFF indicating null

              David agreed to cast the new WriteGroupMultiple service and present a
              proposal to be discussed at the next meeting. David requested email
              discussion prior to the meeting.

              Other needs of lighting community.

              Steve asked what were the other needs for the lighting community. A
              method for "Room Combining" was suggested. It was noted that the
              mechanics of this may be kept a local matter, although there may be a
              way of supervising using current BACnet objects and services. This may
              be discussed in future meetings.

              Future Meeting.

              It was decided that the next meeting would be held in Denver, possible
              on Sunday, June 26th , 2005. Steve will confirm the date and time
              through email.
            • Steve Karg
              Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! As proposed at our last meeting, next scheduled meeting of the Lighting Applications working group will be at the
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 17, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

                As proposed at our last meeting, next scheduled meeting of the Lighting
                Applications working group will be at the Spring interim SSPC meeting,
                which is being held at Montgomery College Germantown Campus. The
                Lighting Applications working group will be meeting on Tuesday, April
                24, 2007, from 1PM to 5PM. Other working groups will be meeting as
                well. More information about the other working groups can be found at
                the BACnet.org website:
                http://www.bacnet.org/WG/

                Montgomery College is served by three major international airports in
                the Washington, DC area, Baltimore-Washington International(BWI), Dulles
                International(IAD) and Reagan National (DCA).

                Our host arranged a block of rooms at the nearby Hampton
                Inn which is within easy walking distance of the meetings.

                Hampton Inn
                20260 Goldenrod Lane
                Germantown, MD 20876
                Contact: John Jordan
                Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
                Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
                http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
                Group/Convention Code: ASH
                Rate: $109.00 + tax
                Location: The Hampton Inn is located on property adjacent to the
                Germantown Campus and is a 2 block walk through parking lots that adjoin
                the campus. Maps and directions can be found on the website.

                Meeting Schedule and Location:
                High Technology Sciences Center (HTSC), Room 216
                Humanities and Social Sciences (HSS), Room 007
                Montgomery College Germantown Campus
                20200 Observation Drive
                Germantown, Maryland 20876
                Contact: Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
                Office Phone: +1 (301) 251-7375
                http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/maps/gcamp.html

                Monday, April 23
                8AM-3PM HTSC 216 Applications
                3PM-5PM HTSC 216 Internet Protocol
                Noon-5PM HSS-007 BACnet Testing Labs

                Tuesday, April 24
                8AM-5PM HTSC 216 Life Safety and Security
                1PM-3PM Life Safety and Security / Network Security joint session
                8PM-Noon HSS-007 Testing and Interoperability
                1PM-5PM HSS-007 Lighting Applications
                6:30 PM Group Dinner

                Wednesday, April 25
                8AM-5PM HTSC 216 SSPC 135 BACnet

                Thursday, April 26
                8AM-10AM HTSC 216 Wireless Networking
                10AM-11AM HTSC 216 Master-Slave/Token-Passing
                11AM-Noon HTSC 216 XML Applications
                1PM-3PM HTSC 216 Utility Integration
                3PM-5PM HTSC 216 Objects and Services

                Friday, April 27
                8AM-Noon HTSC 216 Objects and Services

                Please send Bill Swan <mailto:Bill.Swan@...> a courtesy e-mail
                to let him know if you plan on attending.

                The Lighting Applications working group Agenda will include the
                following items:
                1. Review DMF-032 WriteGroup service with Multiplexor object internals
                2. Review any Addendum i public review comments
                Please post any additional LA-WG agenda items to this list.

                Best Regards,

                Steve Karg
                Lithonia Lighting
                --
                http://steve.kargs.net/
              • Steve Karg
                Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! Here are the meeting minutes from our last meeting. The meeting minutes have also been submitted to the BACnet
                Message 7 of 12 , May 25, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

                  Here are the meeting minutes from our last meeting. The meeting
                  minutes have also been submitted to the BACnet committee chair as
                  LA019.doc.

                  Best Regards,

                  Steve Karg

                  --------------------------------------------
                  BACnet - Lighting Applications Working Group
                  Meeting Minutes
                  April, 24 2007
                  Germantown, Maryland

                  The minutes from the last meeting, LA018.doc, were approved without
                  changes.

                  The agenda for the meeting was modified to include a discussion of the
                  "Color" property that was recently removed from the Lighting Output
                  object.

                  There were no Liaison reports.

                  Status of unpublished work:
                  Addendum i to 135-2004 went out for public review in March. This
                  addendum defines a new Lighting Output Object. David Fisher was asked
                  about the status of the "Famous Times" feature, but the status is
                  unknown.

                  Simple Value Objects (Famous Times for Dawn and Dusk): David Fisher
                  said that he has been given a mandate [not during this meeting] to
                  write a proposal that makes almost all of the properties of the
                  "Value" objects optional, to create the opportunity for very
                  "lightweight" objects.

                  Hand-Off-Auto feature: Some of this is included in Addendum i, but
                  some people are interested in a property that indicates the H-O-A
                  switch position separately from the Present_Value. This proposal is
                  in front of the Objects and Services working group.

                  David Fisher said that there is a flaw in Addendum i related to the
                  fact that the Blink behavior does not map onto Binary Value objects
                  well because Binary Value objects are not required to have a
                  Priority_Array property. David then presented proposal DMF-019-10.doc
                  to the LA-WG meeting attendees as a solution to this problem. The
                  basis of the solution is that the Blink_Priority_Threshold property is
                  not required in non-commandable Binary Value objects. A question
                  was raised as to how this change would affect the blink behavior.
                  David answered that this is detailed in section 12.8.29.1 of
                  DMF-019-10.doc.

                  Pete stated that a local switch would typically override the off delay
                  (which is the whole point of the off delay, to give occupants the
                  chance to prevent the lights from going out), so could a sentence be
                  added about cancelling the off delay if PV becomes Active? The group
                  agreed that a sentence like the following should be added:

                  "During off delay, if PV becomes Active, off delay should be canceled
                  and the output should remain Active".

                  Pete raised the issue that the maximum ON time of manual overrides
                  should not be applicable when the area is occupied. David said that
                  this would need to be an additional feature. Pete said that the same
                  end result could be accomplished by "sweeping" areas with an OFF
                  command at regular intervals during unoccupied times, and this seemed
                  to satisfy the application requirements without requiring changes to
                  the proposal.

                  The discussion returned to the changes proposed related to the blink
                  feature and non-commandable BV objects. Did the group want to submit
                  this as a change to the standard AFTER Addendum i is approved, or
                  should this be submitted as a comment to Addendum i during the public
                  review period to get the changes incorporated before Addendum i is
                  approved for publication? The general consensus was that it would be
                  better to submit a comment during the public review to get Addendum i
                  modified before publication. David Fisher agreed to submit this
                  comment to ASHRAE as part of the Addendum i public review.

                  New issue. Steve asked "What is returned by ReadProperty when reading
                  the Lighting_Command property? What if Lighting_Command has never
                  been commanded, i.e. what is its initial value?" The group decided
                  that when Lighting_Command is read by ReadProperty, it should return
                  the value last commanded and the command parameters, or STOP if it has
                  never been commanded.

                  Steve suggested that the sentence prior to Table 12-Z in Addendum i
                  needed to be reworded. The group agreed on the following change to
                  that sentence:

                  "Optional fields of the BACnetLightingOperation value that are
                  allowable as indicated by table 12-Z for each operation are shown in
                  bold." David Fisher agreed to submit Steve's comment to ASHRAE as part
                  of the Addendum i public review.

                  Review of proposal DMF-043-1:
                  David Fisher explained that the objective of this proposal is to take
                  Steve Karg's original Multiplexer object and cast it as a Channel
                  object. This fixes a problem with the original idea of the "Channel"
                  command: no network visibility. Writing the PV of the Channel object
                  causes writes to all objects in the List_Of_Object_Property_References
                  at the same priority. The Channel object can also coerce the data
                  between different datatypes. The Channel object itself is not
                  commandable but the command priority is passed down to the target
                  objects. The Channel object's instance number is the same as the
                  channel number.

                  There was a lengthy discussion about the need for a channel number
                  that is independent of the channel object Object_Identifier. David
                  Fisher proposed that a property be added to the Device object to
                  indicate which control groups it belongs to. Bob said that he wanted
                  each application to have its own group association, and that group
                  association should not be tied to the hardware which is what would
                  happen if the list of control groups was a property of the Device
                  object.

                  It was noted that since the proposed Write Group service is
                  unconfirmed by design so that it can be used as a sort of multicast,
                  there is no way to verify whether a Device is responding to Write
                  Group or not.

                  After the lengthy discussion of various uses of Channels and Groups in
                  lighting applications, a vote was taken on the following: "Should
                  Channel number be decoupled from the Channel Object instance number?"
                  The result of the vote was 5 to 1 in favor of decoupling.

                  David explained that the Transition Time service parameter was removed
                  from the Write Group service because the concept of transition time is
                  not easy to apply to all of the objects that could be in the
                  List_Of_Object_Property_References.

                  Steve suggested the idea of a randomized command delay, to prevent
                  power surges. After some discussion, the group agreed to the
                  following proposal: Write Group has a delayed execution flag, but the
                  amount to delay is a local matter. David Fisher will incorporate this
                  into the next revision of DMF-043.

                  Bob asked a couple of questions:
                  Q:"Does Write Group have to be sent as a broadcast?"
                  A: "No, it can be unicast".

                  Q:"Can it be confirmed?".
                  A: "No."

                  Discussion of the Color property:

                  David Fisher explained that the Color property originally had 2 purposes:
                  1.Indication of fixed color lights, like lights with filters,
                  2.controllable color, like RGB LEDs.

                  Some of the problems that arose:
                  1.BACnet needed a new datatype for RGB values.
                  2.It would be nice if the Lighting Output indicated support for
                  commandable color.
                  3.Multiple commandable properties in the same object is a problem.
                  4.Min and Max level don't apply well to color.

                  For these reasons, David thought it might be better to create a
                  different Lighting Output specifically intended for color lights,
                  complete with new services such as Ramp to Color, Go to Color, and
                  Step Color (no - stepping color doesn't make sense).

                  So the question is, do we want a separate object for color lights?
                  The group decided that this was the right direction, but that we
                  should also include support for other advanced lighting control
                  features that are beyond the capabilities of the greyscale Lighting
                  Output object, such as those used in theatrical lighting like pan,
                  zoom, and tilt. David also would like to collect input on which color
                  space we should use. RGB24 would be simple, but is it adequate?
                  Steve Karg to provide David Fisher with a list of theatrical lighting
                  features and properties. David Fisher to create a proposal based on
                  the input he receives.

                  Next Meeting
                  ------------
                  The next meeting of the LA-WG will be in Long Beach, CA, on Sunday,
                  June 24, 2007, from 8:30am to noon in the Long Beach Convention
                  Center, Seaside Section, Room 306A.

                  Thank you to Mike Danner for taking meeting notes, to Coleman Brumley
                  for keeping time, and David Fisher for keeping track of non-agenda items.

                  Attendees
                  ---------
                  Note: The list of attendees is probably not correct as I created it
                  from memory. I seemed to have misplaced the sign in sheet during my
                  recent change in employers from Lithonia Lighting to The Wattstopper.
                  Any error or omissions are unintended and corrections are welcome. -
                  Steve

                  Name, Organization
                  ------------------
                  David Fisher, Polarsoft
                  Coleman Brumley, Polarsoft
                  Pete Baselici, The WattStopper
                  Steve Karg, Lithonia Lighting
                  Bob Johnson, Siemens Building Technology
                  Steve Treado, NIST
                  Mike Danner, Automated Logic
                  Dave Robin, Automated Logic
                  Rolf Hunt, Automated Logic
                • Steve Karg
                  Hello Lighting Applications working group! As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 18, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Lighting Applications working group!

                    As suggested in our last meeting, our next scheduled meeting will be
                    at the interim SSPC meeting, which is being held at Montgomery College
                    Germantown Campus.

                    The Lighting Applications working group meeting is scheduled during
                    the morning for two days (8am-noon) on Monday, April 21, 2008 and
                    Tuesday, April 22, 2008, in room HS-007.

                    Our major agenda items include:
                    1. Discuss Color and associated properties for lighting. What needs to
                    be included in an object or profile for BACnet interoperabilty?
                    Specifications for the Chromaticity of Solid
                    State Lighting Products developed by ANSI may apply:
                    http://www.nema.org/stds/ANSI-ANSLG-C78-377.cfm

                    2. Discuss Addendum H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"

                    3. Lighting Application BIBB? 135.1 Testing additions?

                    See you there!

                    Steve
                    ====================================
                    ASHRAE SSPC 135 BACnet Interim Meeting
                    April 21 - April 25, 2008

                    Location:
                    Montgomery College Germantown Campus
                    20200 Observation Drive
                    Germantown, Maryland 20876

                    Building:
                    High Technology Sciences Center (HT)
                    Humanities and Social Sciences Building (HS) (cafeteria)
                    http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/maps/gcamp.html

                    Directions:
                    http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/
                    Look under information for: visitors and community: maps & directions:
                    Germantown campus. They are located just Northwest of Washington, DC,
                    directly off of Interstate I-270 North, not far from the National
                    Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

                    Parking:
                    Park in any white line space.

                    Contact:
                    Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
                    Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
                    Energy Manager
                    Montgomery College
                    40 West Gude Drive, Suite 200
                    Rockville, Maryland, 20850
                    Office Phone: +1 (240) 567-7375
                    Mobile Phone: +1 (301) 509-3723
                    mailto:mike.whitcomb@...

                    Airports:
                    Montgomery College is served by the three major airports in the
                    Washington, DC area:
                    Baltimore-Washington International(BWI)
                    Dulles International(IAD)
                    Reagan National(DCA)

                    Metro:
                    Montgomery College is located just North(approximately 10 miles) of
                    the Red Line, Shady Grove Metro Station. The Metro is the subway rail
                    system serving the DC metro area. A shuttle service is available from
                    the Hampton Inn. Taxi service is also available.

                    Hotel:
                    Hampton Inn Germantown
                    20260 Goldenrod Lane
                    Germantown, MD 20876
                    Contact: Elijah Hammonds
                    Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
                    Fax: +1 (301) 428-2870
                    http://www.hampton-inn.com/hi/germantown-gaithers
                    Block: ASHRAE Rate: $115.00 + tax
                    Location: Get maps and directions from website. The Hampton Inn is
                    located on property adjacent to our Germantown Campus and is a 2 block
                    walk through parking lots that adjoin the campus.

                    Booking online (please note: the Group Code does not appear to work –
                    call the hotel):
                    1) Log onto www.hamptoninngermantown.com and click on the upper right
                    hand corner in the box labeled "Book Now!"
                    2) Click on link that reads, "Need to Book Multiple Group Reservations?"
                    3) Type in dates of stay and room preference and then scroll down to
                    Special Accounts and enter ASHRAE in the Group/Convention Box and
                    click "continue."
                    4) Your rates (both for standards and suites) will appear and you can
                    continue with the reservation as normal

                    Meeting Schedule
                    --------------------------
                    Monday April 21
                    BTL WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                    LA-WG (HS-007 8am-noon)
                    Lunch (noon-1pm)
                    TI-WG (HT216 1pm-5pm)
                    AP-WG (HS-007 1pm-5pm)

                    Tuesday April 22
                    XML WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                    LA-WG (HS-007 8am-noon)
                    Lunch (noon-1pm)
                    MSTP-WG (HT216 1pm-3pm)
                    IP-WG (HT216 3pm-5pm)
                    AP-WG (HS-007 1pm-5pm)

                    Wednesday April 23
                    SSPC-135 (HT216 8am-noon)
                    Lunch (noon-1pm)
                    SSPC-135 (HT216 1pm-5pm)

                    Thursday April 24
                    OS WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                    LSS-WG (HS-007 8am-noon)
                    Lunch (noon-1pm)
                    NS/LSS-WG (HT216 1pm-3pm)
                    NS-WG (HT216 3pm-5pm)
                    WN-WG (HS-007 1pm-3pm)
                    UI-WG (HS-007 3pm-5pm)

                    Friday April 25
                    OS WG (HT216 8am-noon)
                    --
                    http://steve.kargs.net/
                  • Steve Karg
                    Hello Lighting Applications Working Group! We met in Germantown for two days, and had some fantastic discussion. Appended are the meeting minutes, which are
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 17, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Lighting Applications Working Group!

                      We met in Germantown for two days, and had some fantastic discussion.
                      Appended are the meeting minutes, which are also in the LA023.doc file
                      which has been uploaded to the BACnet FTP server.

                      Best Regards,

                      Steve
                      ===============
                      1.Opening remarks – by Steve Karg (8:30AM)
                      2.Circulation of attendance sheet, and introduction of those present
                      Name, Affiliation
                      David Fisher, Polarsoft
                      Coleman Brumley, Polarsoft
                      Steve Karg, The Watt Stopper
                      Robert Hick, Leviton
                      Duane King, Acuity Brands Lighting
                      Dana Peterson, Johnson Controls
                      Christoph Zeller, Sauter
                      David Ritter, Delta Controls

                      3.Meeting role assignments
                      time keeper - David Fisher
                      scribe - Robert Hick, Steve Karg
                      non-agenda item attendant - Coleman
                      4.Approval of the minutes from the previous meeting.
                      5.Discussion and approval of the agenda for this meeting.
                      6.Liaison updates (NEMA, IESNA, DALI)

                      Robert Hick reported on progress of NEMA 243 DALI protocol standard
                      and harmonization with IEC 602386 DALI protocol standard. Hope was to
                      have a final draft for IEC voting by summer.

                      7.Status of SSPC-135-2004 Addendum i PPR2

                      PPR2 ends on May 9. Steve Karg submitted one comment due to initial
                      PPR2 document not matching the draft submitted. Current PPR2 document
                      matches the draft, and the public review period was extended. Steve's
                      comment is now mute.

                      8.LA-WG proposal discussion / resolution via consensus

                      DMF-051-1: Color Lighting Object

                      David Fisher presented DMF-051-1 and a discussion ensued.
                      DMF-051-1 proposed a new color object with separate properties for
                      control of fading and luminance.

                      There was another proposal that color should be merged into the
                      current lighting object since it already has the Luminance properties
                      built in.

                      David Ritter also suggested that we should reference the color object
                      with the light object instead.

                      After much discussion there was a consensus to add color functionality
                      to the existing light object. David F agreed to create a proposal to
                      amend the Light object to incorporate the color properties and
                      commands.

                      There was also discussion on how to best define color?

                      It was noted that there were several ways to define color.
                      RGB values – used in entertainment lighting and combines luminance
                      CIE xy coordinates – Precise color only, used to define LED's
                      Color Temperature Tc– Used to define white light – warm to cool

                      After much discussion, it was determined that all three methods have
                      specific benefits for different applications of color in lighting.
                      There was a consensus to use the Lighting Command to command the color
                      in any of the 3 different ways. David F suggested that the xy
                      coordinates be expressed in integers.

                      Another issue discussed was how to present the current color value and
                      should the device only present the color method being used or be
                      required to calculate values for all methods.

                      David Ritter also expressed a need for a light weight object for
                      lighting control. There was a brief discussion about adding Color to
                      BO, however it was decided that color would rarely be used with Binary
                      devices. The subject of the need for Blink Warn in the BO resurfaced
                      and the group is considering reviving the past proposal.

                      References in Clause 25:
                      CIE 13.3
                      ANSI, NEMA ASNL6C78-377-2008

                      Discussion of Delta Comments on SSPC 135-2004 Addendum i PPR2

                      David Ritter and his team at Delta Controls reviewed Addendum I and
                      provided a number of comments that were submitted to the Lighting
                      Applications working group and discussed. Concern was raised that the
                      time it takes for PPR to happen would delay the publication at least
                      another year.

                      1. In_Process property should be a required property since the
                      lighting command property is required and its purpose is to show the
                      progress of the lighting command.
                      Discussion: There are no objections from the working group to making
                      In_Process a required property, except that this comment on its own
                      should not be cause to have a PPR3. This would be a substantive
                      comment.
                      2. In the Lighting_Command property the sentence "..the write shall
                      fail and a Result(-) with an error class of PROPERTY and a error class
                      of OPTIONAL_FUNCTIONALITY_NOT_SUPPORTY." the second "error class"
                      should be "error code".
                      Discussion: This item is an erratta.
                      3. In the Lighting_Command property should there be a subset of
                      operations which are required to be supported?
                      Can a device not support any lighting command operations? If a device
                      is not required to support any operations the sentence "Devices are
                      not required to support all BACnetLightingOperations" should be
                      changed to "Devices are not required to support any
                      BACnetLightingOperations".
                      Discussion: The working group agreed that it was assumed to be at
                      least one command. STOP, GOTO_LEVEL, and RELINQUISH should be
                      required. Seems that this potential ambiguity could eventually receive
                      an interpretation request and we should address it now. It would be
                      substantive.
                      Can vendors extend the Lighting_Command enumeration? Working group
                      decided that extending the enumeration for vendors would be okay, and
                      agreed that the values be 16-bit, 0-255 reserved for ASHRAE. This may
                      promote non-interoperability, however.
                      4. In the Lighting_Command property there are 6 different ramp
                      commands defined. This is an excessive number of similar commands. The
                      commands can be reduced to two choices:
                      RAMP_TO
                      RAMP_TO_AT_RATE
                      The other 4 commands can easily be achieved by these two commands.
                      Discussion: While it may be better to be simpler, the Addendum is not
                      unclear by having them. However, it may result in more
                      interoperability problems having more choices. Simplifying the number
                      of commands would be a substantive change.
                      5. In the Lighting_Command property the commands RAMP_UP and RAMP_DOWN
                      should be changed to RAMP_MAX and RAMP_MIN respectively to better
                      denote the function of the commands.
                      Discussion: If we accept #4 comment to simplify, then this comment is
                      mute. Yes, these may be better names. The change would be
                      substantive.
                      6. The Blink_Time property should be changed to tenths of a second
                      rather than hundredths. Specifying a blink time in hundredths of a
                      second is excessive.
                      Discussion: The only sub-seconds defines in BACnet are currently
                      milliseconds or hundredths or REAL seconds. Adds complexity for
                      clients to have an additional time conversion. Should use milliseconds
                      to be SI compliant, but resolution a local matter. Blink is probably
                      only visible if it is longer than 50ms, so tenths of seconds may be
                      not enough resolution. The change to milliseconds would be
                      substantive.
                      7. There is a type inconsistency among the properties that specify
                      time duration. Some properties specify the duration in seconds as a
                      REAL (Lighting_Command.fade-time, Fade_Time, Off_Delay, On_Delay)
                      while other specify the duration in seconds as an Unsigned
                      (Lighting_Command.Duration, Elaspsed_Active_Time). It would be
                      preferable to have a consistent measure and unit of duration
                      throughout the object type.
                      Discussion: The non-REAL are consistent with other objects similar
                      properties. The REAL were changed from non-REAL during SSPC and
                      working group discussion prior to PPR1.
                      8. On_Delay/Off_Delay property should specify that the value cannot
                      take on negative values. It should specify what error code to return
                      if an invalid value is attempted to be written.
                      Discussion: Time values in this object should never be negative.
                      Should we specify this as affecting all time properties in this
                      object? Which Error class/code?
                      9. The property name "Off_Delay" should be changed to "Blink Warn
                      Delay" as it is only used when a blink warning is in effect.
                      Discussion: Permits Off_Delay when Blink_Time is zero - see
                      Blink_Time. Perhaps some language is needed to define this ability
                      clearly. Perhaps a diagram would be useful - see David's white paper.
                      Note that most of the diagrams from David Fisher's white paper would
                      be useful in this object.
                      On_Delay does not utilize a priority threshold, and this behavior
                      seems to be an omission. Perhaps use Blink Priority Threshold, but
                      change the name to Delay_Priority_Threshold.
                      10. The order of properties in the property descriptions should match
                      the order given in the table (i.e., Profile Name should be last).
                      Discussion: editorial
                      11. Power should be specified in watts not kilowatts as most lighting
                      fixtures would be significantly less than 1 kilowatt. The value may
                      also be changed to Unsigned from REAL.
                      Discussion: The Power units and datatype are consistent with Load
                      Control object Full_Duty_Baseline property. Perhaps the Power
                      property name should be changed to be consistent with the Load Control
                      object property.
                      12. The Power property would be more useful for load shedding if it
                      was the instantaneous power consumption rather than maximum power
                      consumption.
                      Discussion: It might make it more useful, but it doesn't make it
                      invalid or bad by keeping it the way it is. We could add another
                      property.
                      13. The Binary_Active_Value, Binary_Inactive_Value and Polarity
                      properties should be removed from this object.
                      13a. Adding these properties adds significant confusion to the object
                      as it is unclear whether the object is an analog or binary lighting
                      object. It would be much more clear to have different objects for
                      binary and analog lighting.
                      13b. If these optional properties are in the object then the object
                      must behave as a binary lighting object. For manufacturers who have
                      static object definitions per device this is a problem as it means
                      that you cannot controller both analog and binary lights from a single
                      device.
                      Discussion: The language seems to prescribe the behavior even in the
                      case of analog lighting. What of the case of a dimmer which includes a
                      relay and could be used in either case? Change the language? The
                      functionality is necessary - whether it is necessary to expose and
                      define it is really the question. Should this functionality be moved
                      to a Binary Lighting object, or just add blink warn into Binary Output
                      as in Addendum i PPR1?
                      14. In the Elapsed_Active_Time property the statement "…that the
                      Present_Value has been ACTIVE since this property was most recently
                      set to a zero value" should be replaced with "…that the Present_Value
                      has been ACTIVE. This value is reset when a value of zero is written
                      to this property.". As it is written there may be confusion concerning
                      whether "this property" refers to the Present_Value property or the
                      Elapsed_Time_Property.
                      Discussion: Perhaps the language should be more clear and refer to
                      Present_Value by name.
                      15. Property descriptions of 12.x.22 – 12.x.26 should state "This
                      optional property…" to be consistent with the property table.
                      Discussion: yes, the table is correct.
                      16. The Min_Pres_Value property should have a value range of 0...100
                      rather than 1...100. What is the reasoning for restricting it to
                      non-zero values? The default for this should be 0.
                      Discussion: Minimum on value cannot be zero - but why? The default
                      value is currently undefined when this property is present. Is there a
                      use case for 0? Yes, it could be 0 if the property is present but the
                      functionality is not used. Perhaps 0 should be default, and allowed.
                      17. The Max_Pres_Value property should value a value range of 0...100.
                      The default value should be 100.
                      Discussion: The default value is currently undefined when this
                      property is present. Why is the range not using the full range? Is
                      there a use case for 100? Yes, it could be 100 if the property is
                      present but the functionality is not used. Perhaps 100 should be
                      default, and allowed.
                      Are Max_Pres_Value and Min_Pres_Value both really required to be
                      present? No, it seems they are not coupled, and there could be a use
                      case for having one and not the other. Are they really required to be
                      writable? There seem to be cases where it might be desirable to have
                      this property Read-Only when limiting outside applications.
                      18. The Power_On_Value and System_Failure_Value properties are
                      problematic because both are only used in the special case when
                      communication to a remote lighting device, which is being controlled
                      by this object, is lost. Neither of these properties has anything to
                      do with the functionality of this object and should be considered to
                      be outside of the scope of BACnet.
                      Discussion: We received PPR1 and comments from vendors who want to use
                      these in non-DALI remote systems, along with pre-PPR1 comments that
                      desired these properties to adequately model their DALI systems via
                      BACnet. Removing the DALI like properties would disenfranchise these
                      vendors.
                      18a. When communication is lost to the remote device should the object
                      take on the System_Failure_Value value? If so, at what priority should
                      it be written at in the priority array?
                      Discussion: These values are used as configuration values that the
                      output device uses before it sets the value from the Priority_Array)
                      In addition, Power_On_Value is confusing because its name implies that
                      this is the value the object will take on when the device starts up.
                      Discussion: The name is derived from the DALI property of the same name)
                      BACnet does not specify what the values of the Priority_Array are
                      after a power failure, and these values might be useful in that case
                      (for example, when Out of Service is TRUE and non-volatile). We could
                      also define a value that gets written to Priority_Array (at a specific
                      priority) upon power up when the Priority_Array is volatile. This
                      property might or might not be this property.

                      Discuss Addendum H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
                      Robert agreed to continue working towards providing a draft later in the year.

                      Lighting Application BIBB? 135.1 Testing additions?
                      This discussion was tabled until next meeting.

                      9.Discussion of Non-Agenda Items
                      10.Schedule for future meetings.
                      The group plans to meet at the next SSPC meeting in Salt Lake City in
                      June, 2008. The date and time of the meeting will be determined at a
                      later date.
                      11.Adjournment

                      Meeting minutes respectfully submitted by Robert Hick. Edits by Steve Karg.
                      --
                      http://steve.kargs.net/
                    • Steve Karg
                      Hi Lighting Applications Working Group! As proposed at our last meeting, the next scheduled meeting of the Lighting Applications working group will be at the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 12, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Lighting Applications Working Group!

                        As proposed at our last meeting, the next scheduled meeting of the
                        Lighting Applications working group will be at the Spring interim SSPC
                        meeting, which is being held at Montgomery College Germantown Campus
                        from May 10, 2010, through May 14, 2010. The Lighting Applications
                        working group will be meeting on Monday, May 10, 2010, from 1pm to 5pm
                        in GB105, and Tuesday, May 11, 2010, from 8am to 10am in GB106. Other
                        working groups will be meeting during the week as well, and SSPC 135
                        BACnet will meet on Thursday and Friday, May 13-14, 2010, in GB105.

                        The Lighting Applications working group Agenda will include the following items:
                        1. SSPC-135-2008 Addendum i PPR4 comment responses.
                        2. Discuss Annex H clause H.X "Using BACnet with DALI"
                        3. Discuss BACnet Schedule for Dawn Dusk (removed from 2008 Addendum W)
                        4. IESNA Computer Committee XML standard for photosensors - BACnet
                        applicability?
                        5. Discuss Lighting Application BIBB and 135.1 Testing additions.

                        Please post any additional Lighting Application working group agenda
                        items to this mailing list.

                        Best Regards,

                        Steve Karg
                        Lithonia Lighting
                        --
                        Montgomery College is served by three major international airports in
                        the Washington, DC area, Baltimore-Washington International(BWI),
                        Dulles International(IAD) and Reagan National (DCA).

                        Our host arranged a block of rooms at the nearby Hampton Inn which is
                        within easy walking distance of the meetings.

                        Hampton Inn
                        20260 Goldenrod Lane
                        Germantown, MD 20876
                        Contact: Richard Petras, General Manager, e-mail: GermantownDOS@...
                        Phone: +1 (301) 428-1300
                        Fax: +1 (301) 428-9034
                        www.hamptoninngermantown.com
                        Group/Convention Code: ASH
                        Rate: $117.00 + tax (May 8, 2010 -May 16, 2009)
                        Location: The Hampton Inn is located on property adjacent to the
                        Germantown Campus and is a 2 block walk through parking lots that adjoin
                        the campus. Maps and directions can be found on the website.

                        Meeting Location:
                        Goldenrod Building (GB), Rooms GB105 & GB106
                        Goldenrod Lane
                        Germantown, Maryland 20876
                        Note: Goldenrod Building is across the street from the Hampton Inn on
                        Goldenrod Drive.
                        Contact: Mike Whitcomb, P.E.
                        Office Phone: Office Phone: +1 (240) 567-7375, Mobile Phone: +1 (301) 509-3723
                        e-mail: mike.whitcomb@...
                        http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/maps/gcamp.html
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.