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Re: [BACnetLighting] Feedback DMF-011

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  • Steve Karg
    Hi Jörg (and other interested parties), ... We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and are discussing the use-case for On_Delay.
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 8, 2006
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      Hi Jörg (and other interested parties),

      > o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
      > Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or vice
      > versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these properties.

      We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and are
      discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
      using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
      Output objects from creating a load spike.

      The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
      should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
      since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once, for
      example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing Output
      objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
      more problems than it solves.

      Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
      Output object?

      Best Regards,

      Steve Karg
      Lithonia Lighting
    • craig.spangler@us.schneider-electric.com
      Steve, We use the On_Delay in our lighting products. The main user of this feature is in large warehouses. It s not a real lighting application but here is
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 8, 2006
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        Steve,

        We use the On_Delay in our lighting products. The main user of this feature is in large warehouses. It's not a "real" lighting application but here is how it is used. The large exhaust fans in warehouses have louvers that need opened before a fan starts and needs to close only after the fan stops. Typically the user will open the louvers 10 seconds before turning the fan on and wait a certain period of time after turning the fan off before closing them. I am not sure if there are other similar applications that are not lighting apps, but are used with lighting devices.

        Craig Spangler
        Staff Firmware Engineer
        Powerlink Group
        Square D / Schneider Electric




        Steve Karg <steve@...>
        Sent by: BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com

        11/08/2006 10:45 AM

        Please respond to
        BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com

        To
        BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com
        cc
        Subject
        Re: [BACnetLighting] Feedback DMF-011





        Hi Jörg (and other interested parties),

        > o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
        > Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or
        vice
        > versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these properties.

        We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and are
        discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
        using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
        Output objects from creating a load spike.

        The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
        should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
        since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once, for
        example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing Output
        objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
        more problems than it solves.

        Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
        Output object?

        Best Regards,

        Steve Karg
        Lithonia Lighting


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      • Steve Karg
        Hello Lighting Applications working group! DMF-011 - The BACnet Lighting Output object was voted out for public review today (13-0-2) at the SSPC 135 committee
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 8, 2006
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          Hello Lighting Applications working group!

          DMF-011 - The BACnet Lighting Output object was voted out for public
          review today (13-0-2) at the SSPC 135 committee meeting in Atlanta,
          Georgia. We included the "Tripped" reliability status from STK-015. We
          still have some work to do adding the ANSI/ASHRAE 135.1 tests for this
          object, and getting the document into the correct format for public
          review. Thank you David Fisher of Polarsoft for continuing to work on
          this object. Thank you to the members of this working group for putting
          this object together and reviewing it.

          We also discussed STK-004 - Multiplexer object, DMF-032 - WriteGroup
          Service, DMF-030 - WriteGroupMode Service. The general consensus after
          a long discussion was that the Lighting Applications working group needs
          to re-convene to consolidate the three ideas into a single proposal.
          Although we can collaborate online or meet to discuss these at another
          venue, the next BACnet meeting is planned to be held January 27-31,
          2007, in Dallas, Texas. More details about a specific date and time for
          a meeting will be posted here as it becomes available. More details
          about the ASHRAE meeting in Dallas can be found on their website:
          http://www.ashrae.org/dallas

          Best Regards,

          Steve Karg
          Lithonia Lighting
        • jbroeker2712
          Hi Steve, as I mentioned in a previous discussion, I personally do not know of any specific application for On_Delay. The reason, why I suggested it is, that I
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 10, 2006
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            Hi Steve,

            as I mentioned in a previous discussion, I personally do not know of
            any specific application for On_Delay. The reason, why I suggested it
            is, that I have taken a look at lighting controllers for LonWorks and
            at least the ones I looked at have this feature. So I thought they
            must have a reason to implement that. Maybe that was naive ... ;-)

            Seriously, I do not have any objection if this property is removed.

            Best regards,

            Jörg

            p.s.: Did not find the time to review the current/new proposal. Since
            I am on vacation starting next week, I will have to take a look at it
            when I come back.

            --- In BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com, Steve Karg <steve@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Jörg (and other interested parties),
            >
            > > o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
            > > Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or
            vice
            > > versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these
            properties.
            >
            > We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and
            are
            > discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
            > using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
            > Output objects from creating a load spike.
            >
            > The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
            > should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
            > since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once,
            for
            > example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing
            Output
            > objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
            > more problems than it solves.
            >
            > Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
            > Output object?
            >
            > Best Regards,
            >
            > Steve Karg
            > Lithonia Lighting
            >
          • Langels, Hans-Joachim
            Hello Steve, an On-Delay is not uncommon for output devices in the industry. Hence, I see value in keeping this Property. Best regards, Hans J. Langels Siemens
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 11, 2006
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              Hello Steve,

              an On-Delay is not uncommon for output devices in the industry.

              Hence, I see value in keeping this Property.

              Best regards,
              Hans J. Langels

              Siemens AG
              A&D ET BC PM
              Product Management
              Siemensstrasse 10
              93055 Regensburg
              GERMANY

              FON: +49 (941) 790-2992
              FAX: +49 (941) 790-2603
              MOBILE: +49 (151) 121-32281
              EMAIL: Hans-Joachim.Langels@...

              Technische Dokumentation instabus EIB und Produktdatenbankeinträge für ETS
              http://www.ad.siemens.de/et/gamma/html_00/support/techdoku.htm

              Technical Documentation instabus EIB and productdatabase for ETS
              http://www.ad.siemens.de/et/gamma/html_76/support/techdoku.htm

              > Support Request: http://www.siemens.de/automation/support-request
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              -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
              Von: BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von jbroeker2712
              Gesendet: Freitag, 10. November 2006 10:18
              An: BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com
              Betreff: [BACnetLighting] Re: Feedback DMF-011

              Hi Steve,

              as I mentioned in a previous discussion, I personally do not know of
              any specific application for On_Delay. The reason, why I suggested it
              is, that I have taken a look at lighting controllers for LonWorks and
              at least the ones I looked at have this feature. So I thought they
              must have a reason to implement that. Maybe that was naive ... ;-)

              Seriously, I do not have any objection if this property is removed.

              Best regards,

              Jörg

              p.s.: Did not find the time to review the current/new proposal. Since
              I am on vacation starting next week, I will have to take a look at it
              when I come back.

              --- In BACnetLighting@yahoogroups.com, Steve Karg <steve@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Jörg (and other interested parties),
              >
              > > o On_Delay (REAL, seconds) Off_Delay (REAL, seconds): If the
              > > Present_Value is changed from 0 to some value greater than zero or
              vice
              > > versa the dim action is delayed for the time given in these
              properties.
              >
              > We are discussing DMF-011-10 in SSPC 135 BACnet committee today, and
              are
              > discussing the use-case for On_Delay. The only use-case that we see is
              > using it for distributed start to keep the load from many Lighting
              > Output objects from creating a load spike.
              >
              > The objections of having an On_Delay property is that this use-case
              > should really be a client feature, not an end-point object feature,
              > since scheduling a lot of Lighting Output objects would happen once,
              for
              > example, in the morning. Any subsequent accesses to the Ligthing
              Output
              > objects would probably not need the On_Delay, and so On_Delay creates
              > more problems than it solves.
              >
              > Any discussion for or against having On_Delay property in the Lighting
              > Output object?
              >
              > Best Regards,
              >
              > Steve Karg
              > Lithonia Lighting
              >





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