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RE: [Ayreton] Use of this list

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  • Sheehan, Justin
    Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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      Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is allowed? I think this way we could keep the Announcements list for the business of the Lord Mayor, his adjutants, our town crier, and the odd anouncement (such as last week's) of births, accomplishments, and introductions. We could use the other list for broader, unofficial discussions of kingdom and society policies, practices, and any other issue which might incite debate and inundate our inboxes with undesired clutter. Just a thought.

      Cheers,
      Justin


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Drew Nicholson
      Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 10:59 AM
      To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

      >
      > The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.
      >

      Having a discussion on a discussion list isn't a lack of self control.
      It's using the list for it's purpose.

      If there weren't such a thing as an announcements list, Yahoo wouldn't
      give us the option.

      I don't care either way, although I always think that seeking to avoid
      discussion is wrong. If we don't have these necessary discussions
      here, we'll have them elsewhere.
    • Andrew Otto
      Well, I could suggest using the Frasers-Oak list to discuss these issues. That s what it s original purpose was. It is a fine establishment, without ninjas
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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        Well, I could suggest using the Frasers-Oak list to discuss these issues. That's what it's original purpose was. It is a fine establishment, without ninjas under the stairs. Mauve furry lagomorph footwear would be welcome as well.
         
        I also have the domain "frasers-oak.com" and hosting space connected to it. I would be more than happy to set up forums, picture galleries, polls, etc...
         
        If there is a desire among the populace for this, please let me know and I will get the ball rolling.
         
        Angus Fraser
        -*Angus*-

        "Sheehan, Justin" <JSHEEHA3@...> wrote:


        Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is allowed? I think this way we could keep the Announcements list for the business of the Lord Mayor, his adjutants, our town crier, and the odd anouncement (such as last week's) of births, accomplishments, and introductions. We could use the other list for broader, unofficial discussions of kingdom and society policies, practices, and any other issue which might incite debate and inundate our inboxes with undesired clutter. Just a thought.

        Cheers,
        Justin

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ayreton@yahoogroups .com on behalf of Drew Nicholson
        Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 10:59 AM
        To: Ayreton@yahoogroups .com
        Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

        >
        > The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.
        >

        Having a discussion on a discussion list isn't a lack of self control.
        It's using the list for it's purpose.

        If there weren't such a thing as an announcements list, Yahoo wouldn't
        give us the option.

        I don't care either way, although I always think that seeking to avoid
        discussion is wrong. If we don't have these necessary discussions
        here, we'll have them elsewhere.




        -*Andy*-


        We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
        (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

      • AlexdeSet@aol.com
        Truth, time obscures. Fact decays, but myth endures. Quote of John Inchingham. Is mise le meas, Alexander de Seton ... From: kateslists@comcast.net To:
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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          "Truth, time obscures. Fact decays, but myth endures." Quote of John Inchingham.
          Is mise le meas,
          Alexander de Seton
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: kateslists@...
          To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:30 AM
          Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

           
          "Either we're inclusive or we're not.  Pretending we are if we aren't certainly does nothing."
           
          Yes, Purple, you're right on this but wrong on some of your facts.  In you're original post you said :
           
          "When we had the rotating practices, suddenly people didn't want to go
          to Ravenslake, and it felt to me like that group was being "excluded"
          from being party of Areyton in practice, if not in name."

          I was one of the people who pushed the idea of combining practices and I went to 90% of them when they started.   Many of the Treegirtsea and Gargoyles fighters traveled to the combined practices but the Ravenslake fighters didn't come in to the practices in the city.   (But they thought it was great when we went up there.)  After 6 months or so they were dropped out of the rotation because they weren't participating in the rotation.
           
          Bojei
          (who's really wondering and annoyed at how her low traffice announcement list has started clogging up her inbox)
           

          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
        • Robin Goldman
          Hazaaa! to Moira! I agree TOTALLY! Thanks for your input Moira. Eleanor ... Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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            Hazaaa! to Moira!  I agree TOTALLY!  Thanks for your input Moira.
             
            Eleanor


            Need Mail bonding?
            Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
          • Tedesco da Venezia
            Our original intent for the Ayreton list was indeed a area-wide announcement list, and in fact the policy statements said please keep chatter to the local
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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              Our original intent for the Ayreton list was indeed a area-wide announcement list, and in fact the policy statements said "please keep chatter to the local lists".  When the Ayreton Carnivale needed a place to post group planning, the list was opened up to discussion, just so no one would feel excluded by having the planning take place on one of the local lists...  There's a system part of yahoogroups that allows people to subscribe "Special Announcements Only", which I proposed that people who do not want to be part of the discussion switch to-- unfortunately, only group mods can post "special announcements", and the system was not readily used. 

              I don't see value in creating yet-another-list for discussion instead of announcements, but I fear "hijacking" Frasers-Oak for Chicago area discussion like the kind that has taken place over the past week since the event will irritate non-Chicago people who don't want to hear our local discussion.  But then again, it is a well-established place to have these kind of discussions.  So we have a choice, and I think it is definitely up to the opinion of the mayor, his staff, and the people of Ayreton to decide how we address this:

              1. Close the list to discussion, only allowing announcements, news, births, deaths, etc. restoring the list to its original intent.  Possibly turn moderating on to enforce this, at least in the beginning.  Chatting must be moved either to local lists or to Frasers-Oak. 
              2. Leave it as-is, allow open discussion, and perhaps try to enforce the "Special Announcements" system for news, allowing people who do not want to hear the discussion to switch their subscription to "Special Notices Only" or "Daily Digest".

              ~Tedesco~


              On 4/2/07, Sheehan, Justin <JSHEEHA3@...> wrote:


              Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is allowed? I think this way we could keep the Announcements list for the business of the Lord Mayor, his adjutants, our town crier, and the odd anouncement (such as last week's) of births, accomplishments, and introductions. We could use the other list for broader, unofficial discussions of kingdom and society policies, practices, and any other issue which might incite debate and inundate our inboxes with undesired clutter. Just a thought.

              Cheers,
              Justin


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Drew Nicholson
              Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 10:59 AM
              To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

              >
              > The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.
              >

              Having a discussion on a discussion list isn't a lack of self control.
              It's using the list for it's purpose.

              If there weren't such a thing as an announcements list, Yahoo wouldn't
              give us the option.

              I don't care either way, although I always think that seeking to avoid
              discussion is wrong.  If we don't have these necessary discussions
              here, we'll have them elsewhere.



              ~~~~~

              To view and add events to the calendar: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/cal/

              To discontinue receiving discussion, but still receive announcements, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join and change your subscription to "Special Notices".  Activities coordinators, to get access to post Special Notices, send a request to < Ayreton-owner@yahoogroups.com>.

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/

              <*> Your email settings:
                  Individual Email | Traditional

              <*> To change settings online go to:
                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join
                  (Yahoo! ID required)

              <*> To change settings via email:
                  mailto:Ayreton-digest@yahoogroups.com
                  mailto:Ayreton-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

              <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                   Ayreton-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



            • Wolfram von Waldersbach
              ... Honestly, with the events of the past fortnight on this list, I m in favor of this option. Leaving this open as yet another opportunity for some troll to
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                >1. Close the list to discussion, only allowing announcements, news, births,
                >deaths, etc. restoring the list to its original intent. Possibly turn
                >moderating on to enforce this, at least in the beginning. Chatting must be
                >moved either to local lists or to Frasers-Oak.


                Honestly, with the events of the past fortnight on this list, I'm in favor
                of this option. Leaving this open as yet another opportunity for some troll
                to spout off gets a bit annoying after a while. There are more than enough
                localized Yahoo groups (TGS, GG, etc.) to handle general discussion,
                location (shire or province) specific matters, or mindless bitching for the
                sake of bitching.

                In Service,

                -Wolfram von Waldersbach
                Archery Marshal in Training, from the Shire of the Grey Gargoyles
                Sursum ad Summum

                _________________________________________________________________
                MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John.� Enter to win today.
                http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline
              • David Roland
                I -me personally not my office as cryer - find another path that I think we should follow. I like how Justin put it. Keep this list open to anyone to post
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                  I -me personally not my "office" as cryer - find another path that I
                  think we should follow.

                  I like how Justin put it. Keep this list open to anyone to post
                  onto. Excercise self control and keep the posts to a minimum.

                  We maintain a place where anyone can make announcements in a timely
                  manner, make ride requests in a timely manner and if they have a
                  question about something going on and get a timely and likely
                  accurate response.

                  Conversation and discussion outside these areas in my opinion - ME
                  not the Cryer - should be kept to a minimum or taken off list to yes,
                  Fraser's Oak's, after all the owner of the list has generously
                  offered it and that IS what it is for OR to personal e-mails as Moira
                  pointed out.

                  The purpose of the list is so that we can communicate in a timely
                  manner to fulfill the informaitonal needs of the various groups and
                  SCA people in the area we here call Ayreton. This Yahoo! group is
                  not and was not intended as a forum for conversation de jur.

                  I believe that if you want to have those electronic conversations
                  then do so but don't do it on THIS list. Take it to personal e-mails
                  or the Fraser's Oak's as it has been offered. To me creating another
                  list for Ayreton conversation and restricting who can post on this
                  list will create the very communication problems that this list was
                  created to solve.

                  To me ANYONE should be able to post to this list. I as the Cryer CAN
                  NOT and DO NOT respond to announcement requests fast enough to get
                  things out that perhaps fall into the immediate category. These
                  would be, "I need a ride to tomorrow's event," "Sorry but X,Y,Z
                  activity is cancelled TONIGHT!" as well as the plethora of other
                  possibilities.

                  It is because of this that I reiterate that I believe that ANYONE
                  should be able to post to this list, we should, as we did previously,
                  and as Justin pointed out, excercise self control and keep posts here
                  to activties, events etc and to questions, comments and help
                  associated with them. If you wish to have further conversation than
                  that, as Moira suggested, take it elsewhere.

                  Ian the Green
                  giving his personal opinion not the Ayreton Towne Cryer's word on
                  something... really they are different sometimes.
                • spdesroches@att.net
                  Greetings Citizens I thank you all for your time and opinions here. I have been reading all these communications, and have been more or less satisfied that so
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 1, 2008
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                    Greetings Citizens

                     

                         I thank you all for your time and opinions here. I have been reading all these communications, and have been more or less satisfied that so far the rules for the use of this private list are being followed. For those who may have subscribed only lately, those rules include:

                        That the messages posted be done in a thoughtful, polite manner much as in our Society in whole.

                        That posts should be kept to a reasonable minimum in length and quantity.

                        That the list will not be used as a resource for personal attacks here or to acquire private e-mail addresses for objectionable private posts.

                          We have previously established penalties for the violation of these rules, namely that with the first infraction, as judged by the moderators, will result in the violator receiving a private warning, with the offending content quoted, from the Town Crier. The second violation will result in a similar warning posted publicly here. The third infraction will result in the violator having their posting priviledges here suspended for 90 days from the date of a public notice by the Town Crier. The violator may then be returned to posting status if an apology is received by the Town Crier, agreed to by the moderators, and then published here.

                         The moderators reserve the right to alter these rules or penalties as circumstances demand on this private list.

                         Thus said, I would like to bring up a subject suggested at the Town Meeting held in Foxvale last fall, namely that this list be restricted to the posting of notices for area events, meetings and other functions and needs, and that there there be established a seperate discussion group for more politically oriented subjects.  True, it's "just another damn list I've got clogging my bandwidth", but doing so would allow that discussion to continue without interfering with the primary purpose of this list. We had put off using this option last fall, but now may be the time.

                     

                    Peace    
                    Hizzoner

                  • Andrew Otto
                    Angus steps out from the Oak and out of persona... You (we) have a forum for this kind of discussion, The Frasers-Oak list. I started this list with my own
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 2, 2008
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                      Angus steps out from the Oak and out of persona...
                       
                      You (we) have a forum for this kind of discussion, The Frasers-Oak list. I started this list with my own time and funds to have a place where these kind of discussions could happen, in an open and frank manner.
                       
                      I invite you all to come on over and bring this discussion to The Oak and leave the other lists for announcements and news.
                       
                      My rules are a little less strict and my be more appropriate for this type of discussion.
                       
                      1. No personal attacks. Note that a personal attack is "you are a scum sucking idiot". It is not, "I think you might be trying B.S. us" or "you did something to piss me off"
                      2. In vino veritas. This is an honesty zone. If you are mad, sad, annoyed, frustrated, suspicious, or otherwise peeved, say it! and oh see point 3
                      3. This is a tavern. Politeness is highly overrated here. Civility would be nice. Keep it R-rated.
                      4. Fighting will result in the combatants being asked to neutral corners until they can play nice with each other.
                      5. Long-winded rambling is allowed, but this sort of thing is it's own punishment -- people will fail to read your tirade.
                       
                      Come on by and hoist a pint!
                       
                      -*Angus*-

                      spdesroches@... wrote:
                      Greetings Citizens
                       
                           I thank you all for your time and opinions here. I have been reading all these communications, and have been more or less satisfied that so far the rules for the use of this private list are being followed. For those who may have subscribed only lately, those rules include:
                          That the messages posted be done in a thoughtful, polite manner much as in our Society in whole.
                          That posts should be kept to a reasonable minimum in length and quantity.
                          That the list will not be used as a resource for personal attacks here or to acquire private e-mail addresses for objectionable private posts.
                            We have previously established penalties for the violation of these rules, namely that with the first infraction, as judged by the moderators, will result in the violator receiving a private warning, with the offending content quoted, from the Town Crier. The second violation will result in a similar warning posted publicly here. The third infraction will result in the violator having their posting priviledges here suspended for 90 days from the date of a public notice by the Town Crier. The violator may then be returned to posting status if an apology is received by the Town Crier, agreed to by the moderators, and then published here.
                           The moderators reserve the right to alter these rules or penalties as circumstances demand on this private list.
                           Thus said, I would like to bring up a subject suggested at the Town Meeting held in Foxvale last fall, namely that this list be restricted to the posting of notices for area events, meetings and other functions and needs, and that there there be established a seperate discussion group for more politically oriented subjects.  True, it's "just another damn list I've got clogging my bandwidth", but doing so would allow that discussion to continue without interfering with the primary purpose of this list. We had put off using this option last fall, but now may be the time.
                       
                      Peace    
                      Hizzoner



                      -*Andy*-


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