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Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

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  • Drew Nicholson
    If you re attempting to suggest that I m driving a wedge of bitterness , you re summarily wrong. I have an opinion on the issue at hand, just like Ian did.
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 30, 2007
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      If you're attempting to suggest that I'm driving a "wedge of bitterness", you're summarily wrong.  I have an opinion on the issue at hand, just like Ian did.  Not tolerating discussion is no solution.
       
      Either we're inclusive or we're not.  Pretending we are if we aren't certainly does nothing.

       
      On 3/31/07, spdesroches@... <spdesroches@...> wrote:

      From the Office of The Lord Mayor

       

      The purpose of the Ayreton yahoo groups lists is to promote the co-operation and communication of all the Chicagoland groups. The purpose of the creation of Ayreton is to help overcome the negative and fractious image many Scadians outside Chicagoland have held in the past about us, and foster better feelings about our ability to function toward the betterment of the kingdom. While open discourse is always encouraged, any attempt to drive a wedge of bitterness or separatism by means of this list is counter to its purpose.

            It will not be tolerated. If you can't play nice, we'll play nice for you.

       

      THL Etienne le Couteau des Roches

      Lord Mayor, Ayreton

        

      -------------- Original message from "Drew Nicholson" <drewishdrewid@ gmail.com>: --------------

      > I will point out, as it was pointed out by Kiyohare this past week,
      > that the "Ayreton Practice" is a combined practice of the Province of
      > Tree Girt Sea, Grey Gargoyles AND Vanished Woods. As this is half
      > the groups of Ayreton practicing in one spot it was felt that it was
      > acceptable to call this the Ayreton Practice.
      >

      Simply logic rules state that if you call something THE Areyton
      practice, other things cannot also be Areyton practices.

      IMO, the GG/TGS/VW practice at Grey Gargoyles should be called, well,
      the GG/TGS/VW practice.

      When we had the rotating practices, suddenly people didn't want to go
      to Ravenslake, and it felt to me like that group was being "excluded"
      from being party of Areyton in practice, if not in name.

      Now they may -be- part of Areyton in name -- but, apparently, not in practice.


    • kateslists@comcast.net
      Either we re inclusive or we re not. Pretending we are if we aren t certainly does nothing. Yes, Purple, you re right on this but wrong on some of your
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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        "Either we're inclusive or we're not.  Pretending we are if we aren't certainly does nothing."
         
        Yes, Purple, you're right on this but wrong on some of your facts.  In you're original post you said :
         
        "When we had the rotating practices, suddenly people didn't want to go
        to Ravenslake, and it felt to me like that group was being "excluded"
        from being party of Areyton in practice, if not in name."

        I was one of the people who pushed the idea of combining practices and I went to 90% of them when they started.   Many of the Treegirtsea and Gargoyles fighters traveled to the combined practices but the Ravenslake fighters didn't come in to the practices in the city.   (But they thought it was great when we went up there.)  After 6 months or so they were dropped out of the rotation because they weren't participating in the rotation.
         
        Bojei
        (who's really wondering and annoyed at how her low traffice announcement list has started clogging up her inbox)
         
      • Drew Nicholson
        ... That s not how I remember it. I remember lots of participating in Tree-Girt-Sea practices, in part because it was closer, and in part because
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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          On 4/2/07, kateslists@... <kateslists@...> wrote:

          > "When we had the rotating practices, suddenly people didn't want to go
          > to Ravenslake, and it felt to me like that group was being "excluded"
          > from being party of Areyton in practice, if not in name."
          >
          > I was one of the people who pushed the idea of combining practices and I went to 90% of them when they started. Many of the Treegirtsea and Gargoyles fighters traveled to the combined practices but the Ravenslake fighters didn't come in to the practices in the city. (But they thought it was great when we went up there.) After 6 months or so they were dropped out of the rotation because they weren't participating in the rotation.
          >

          <shrug> That's not how I remember it. I remember lots of
          participating in Tree-Girt-Sea practices, in part because it was
          closer, and in part because there was a better chance of host-group
          members showing up.

          I also don't remember -any- discussion about whether or not Ravenslake
          should be dropped or not. Probably because there was the same kind of
          reaction then as there is to discussion now.

          If we want this to be an announcements list, then we should say that
          it's an announcements list, and only give certain people, like the
          "Mayor" and the "Town Crier" rights to post to it. Currently, that's
          not the case.

          p
        • aldyet@broomstich.com
          Snip
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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            Snip< After 6 months or so they were dropped out of the rotation
            because they weren't participating in the rotation. >End snip

            This might be a silly question from someone incredibly new to your
            area but.... wouldn?t this be the point of having a rotation?

            I would imagine that a benefit of a rotating practice would give those
            who couldn?t travel an opportunity at least once a month to fight,
            while giving those who can travel, an opportunity to fight different
            people. If you had everyone who fought who could travel, did travel,
            well then you could just have a permanent site, where everyone would
            travel to...But since not everyone could travel, they could go when
            they could. In my opinion, The emphasis shouldn?t be as much on "well
            they didn?t show up when it was in a different area" as much as
            getting as much people to show up, as often as possible.

            I hope no one takes any offense, as I really don?t have an opinion one
            way or another, as I am so incredibly new. I just want to make sure I
            understand why the things they are, the way they are.

            Aldyet
          • Sheehan, Justin
            If we want this to be an announcements list, then we should say that it s an announcements list, and only give certain people, like the Mayor and the Town
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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              “If we want this to be an announcements list, then we should say that
              it's an announcements list, and only give certain people, like the
              "Mayor" and the "Town Crier" rights to post to it. Currently, that's
              not the case.”

               

              The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.

               


              From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ayreton@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Drew Nicholson
              Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 10:38 AM
              To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

               

              On 4/2/07, kateslists@comcast. net <kateslists@comcast. net> wrote:

              > "When we had the rotating practices, suddenly people didn't want to
              go
              > to Ravenslake, and it felt to me like that group was being
              "excluded"
              > from being party of Areyton in practice, if not in name."
              >
              > I was one of the people who pushed the idea of combining practices and I
              went to 90% of them when they started. Many of the Treegirtsea and Gargoyles fighters traveled to the combined practices but the Ravenslake fighters didn't come in to the practices in the city. (But they thought it was great when we went up there.) After 6 months or so they were dropped out of the rotation because they weren't participating in the rotation.
              >

              <shrug> That's not how I remember it. I remember lots of
              participating in Tree-Girt-Sea practices, in part because it was
              closer, and in part because there was a better chance of host-group
              members showing up.

              I also don't remember -any- discussion about whether or not Ravenslake
              should be dropped or not. Probably because there was the same kind of
              reaction then as there is to discussion now.

              If we want this to be an announcements list, then we should say that
              it's an announcements list, and only give certain people, like the
              "Mayor" and the "Town Crier" rights to post to it. Currently, that's
              not the case.

              p

            • Drew Nicholson
              ... Having a discussion on a discussion list isn t a lack of self control. It s using the list for it s purpose. If there weren t such a thing as an
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                >
                > The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.
                >

                Having a discussion on a discussion list isn't a lack of self control.
                It's using the list for it's purpose.

                If there weren't such a thing as an announcements list, Yahoo wouldn't
                give us the option.

                I don't care either way, although I always think that seeking to avoid
                discussion is wrong. If we don't have these necessary discussions
                here, we'll have them elsewhere.
              • aldyet@broomstich.com
                I would like to thank Bojei, for giving me a very fair & honest explanation. Thank you Aldyet
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                  I would like to thank Bojei, for giving me a very fair & honest explanation.

                  Thank you

                  Aldyet

                  > Snip< After 6 months or so they were dropped out of the rotation
                  > because they weren't participating in the rotation. >End snip
                  >
                  > This might be a silly question from someone incredibly new to your area
                  > but.... wouldn?t this be the point of having a rotation?
                  >
                  > I would imagine that a benefit of a rotating practice would give those
                  > who couldn?t travel an opportunity at least once a month to fight,
                  > while giving those who can travel, an opportunity to fight different
                  > people. If you had everyone who fought who could travel, did travel,
                  > well then you could just have a permanent site, where everyone would
                  > travel to...But since not everyone could travel, they could go when
                  > they could. In my opinion, The emphasis shouldn?t be as much on "well
                  > they didn?t show up when it was in a different area" as much as getting
                  > as much people to show up, as often as possible.
                  >
                  > I hope no one takes any offense, as I really don?t have an opinion one
                  > way or another, as I am so incredibly new. I just want to make sure I
                  > understand why the things they are, the way they are.
                  >
                  > Aldyet
                • Valerie
                  Ok so I wrote a long email response on everything. I looked at it and decided to delete it and sum up my points. 1. Anyone can go anywhere and play with
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                    Ok so I wrote a long email response on everything. I looked at it and
                    decided to delete it and sum up my points.

                    1. Anyone can go anywhere and play with whomever they want in the
                    area.

                    2. Rotating practices didn't work due to people that couldn't commute
                    or chose not to. Instead it just led to many groups having competing
                    practices on the same day. Many of the groups marshal's talked about
                    it and most of the competeing groups settled on one day and one
                    location for a combined practice. This ended lots of confusion and
                    helped set things for those that can't commute outside of city public
                    transit. Its been a very good thing for the area as a whole as we all
                    see eachother and play together better now.

                    3. Use common sense as to what is "Important" for the list do we all
                    need to hear it or will a personal email to one person do? Do not try
                    and create problems just so you can argue for the sake of arguing on
                    the list. If someone does this ignore them. They WILL go away as
                    it's hard to argue with oneself for long and if you do you'll prolly
                    get removed from the list for spam anyway.

                    4. We are all Aeyerton and it doesn't matter what practices are
                    called so long as the people of aeyerton are all happy to have places
                    to fight. If you truely have a problem with a group or groups
                    practice name then show up to a group meeting and bring it up there.
                    Talk to the marshals in charge if you REALLY feel it's an issue
                    and "offensive".

                    If someone disagree's or doesn't like what I've stated above feel
                    free to say so but I will not respond. I feel no need to argue a
                    point over and over again. It wastes everyones time and I'd rather be
                    out fighting, sewing, working, playing, drinking, anything thats a
                    lot of fun instead.

                    Have fun, don't take yourself so seriously and for god's sake watch
                    out for those pink fluffy bunnies....I hear they have sharp pointy
                    teeth!

                    Moira O'Dorran - I'm not feeling very p.c. today

                    "That rabbit's DYNAMITE!"
                  • Sheehan, Justin
                    Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                      Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is allowed? I think this way we could keep the Announcements list for the business of the Lord Mayor, his adjutants, our town crier, and the odd anouncement (such as last week's) of births, accomplishments, and introductions. We could use the other list for broader, unofficial discussions of kingdom and society policies, practices, and any other issue which might incite debate and inundate our inboxes with undesired clutter. Just a thought.

                      Cheers,
                      Justin


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Drew Nicholson
                      Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 10:59 AM
                      To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

                      >
                      > The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.
                      >

                      Having a discussion on a discussion list isn't a lack of self control.
                      It's using the list for it's purpose.

                      If there weren't such a thing as an announcements list, Yahoo wouldn't
                      give us the option.

                      I don't care either way, although I always think that seeking to avoid
                      discussion is wrong. If we don't have these necessary discussions
                      here, we'll have them elsewhere.
                    • Andrew Otto
                      Well, I could suggest using the Frasers-Oak list to discuss these issues. That s what it s original purpose was. It is a fine establishment, without ninjas
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                        Well, I could suggest using the Frasers-Oak list to discuss these issues. That's what it's original purpose was. It is a fine establishment, without ninjas under the stairs. Mauve furry lagomorph footwear would be welcome as well.
                         
                        I also have the domain "frasers-oak.com" and hosting space connected to it. I would be more than happy to set up forums, picture galleries, polls, etc...
                         
                        If there is a desire among the populace for this, please let me know and I will get the ball rolling.
                         
                        Angus Fraser
                        -*Angus*-

                        "Sheehan, Justin" <JSHEEHA3@...> wrote:


                        Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is allowed? I think this way we could keep the Announcements list for the business of the Lord Mayor, his adjutants, our town crier, and the odd anouncement (such as last week's) of births, accomplishments, and introductions. We could use the other list for broader, unofficial discussions of kingdom and society policies, practices, and any other issue which might incite debate and inundate our inboxes with undesired clutter. Just a thought.

                        Cheers,
                        Justin

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ayreton@yahoogroups .com on behalf of Drew Nicholson
                        Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 10:59 AM
                        To: Ayreton@yahoogroups .com
                        Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

                        >
                        > The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.
                        >

                        Having a discussion on a discussion list isn't a lack of self control.
                        It's using the list for it's purpose.

                        If there weren't such a thing as an announcements list, Yahoo wouldn't
                        give us the option.

                        I don't care either way, although I always think that seeking to avoid
                        discussion is wrong. If we don't have these necessary discussions
                        here, we'll have them elsewhere.




                        -*Andy*-


                        We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                        (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

                      • AlexdeSet@aol.com
                        Truth, time obscures. Fact decays, but myth endures. Quote of John Inchingham. Is mise le meas, Alexander de Seton ... From: kateslists@comcast.net To:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                          "Truth, time obscures. Fact decays, but myth endures." Quote of John Inchingham.
                          Is mise le meas,
                          Alexander de Seton
                           
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: kateslists@...
                          To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:30 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

                           
                          "Either we're inclusive or we're not.  Pretending we are if we aren't certainly does nothing."
                           
                          Yes, Purple, you're right on this but wrong on some of your facts.  In you're original post you said :
                           
                          "When we had the rotating practices, suddenly people didn't want to go
                          to Ravenslake, and it felt to me like that group was being "excluded"
                          from being party of Areyton in practice, if not in name."

                          I was one of the people who pushed the idea of combining practices and I went to 90% of them when they started.   Many of the Treegirtsea and Gargoyles fighters traveled to the combined practices but the Ravenslake fighters didn't come in to the practices in the city.   (But they thought it was great when we went up there.)  After 6 months or so they were dropped out of the rotation because they weren't participating in the rotation.
                           
                          Bojei
                          (who's really wondering and annoyed at how her low traffice announcement list has started clogging up her inbox)
                           

                          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                        • Robin Goldman
                          Hazaaa! to Moira! I agree TOTALLY! Thanks for your input Moira. Eleanor ... Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers
                          Message 12 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                            Hazaaa! to Moira!  I agree TOTALLY!  Thanks for your input Moira.
                             
                            Eleanor


                            Need Mail bonding?
                            Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                          • Tedesco da Venezia
                            Our original intent for the Ayreton list was indeed a area-wide announcement list, and in fact the policy statements said please keep chatter to the local
                            Message 13 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                              Our original intent for the Ayreton list was indeed a area-wide announcement list, and in fact the policy statements said "please keep chatter to the local lists".  When the Ayreton Carnivale needed a place to post group planning, the list was opened up to discussion, just so no one would feel excluded by having the planning take place on one of the local lists...  There's a system part of yahoogroups that allows people to subscribe "Special Announcements Only", which I proposed that people who do not want to be part of the discussion switch to-- unfortunately, only group mods can post "special announcements", and the system was not readily used. 

                              I don't see value in creating yet-another-list for discussion instead of announcements, but I fear "hijacking" Frasers-Oak for Chicago area discussion like the kind that has taken place over the past week since the event will irritate non-Chicago people who don't want to hear our local discussion.  But then again, it is a well-established place to have these kind of discussions.  So we have a choice, and I think it is definitely up to the opinion of the mayor, his staff, and the people of Ayreton to decide how we address this:

                              1. Close the list to discussion, only allowing announcements, news, births, deaths, etc. restoring the list to its original intent.  Possibly turn moderating on to enforce this, at least in the beginning.  Chatting must be moved either to local lists or to Frasers-Oak. 
                              2. Leave it as-is, allow open discussion, and perhaps try to enforce the "Special Announcements" system for news, allowing people who do not want to hear the discussion to switch their subscription to "Special Notices Only" or "Daily Digest".

                              ~Tedesco~


                              On 4/2/07, Sheehan, Justin <JSHEEHA3@...> wrote:


                              Would I be out of line in suggesting that we start an Ayreton-Discussion list for those locals who would like a list in which more regular discussion is allowed? I think this way we could keep the Announcements list for the business of the Lord Mayor, his adjutants, our town crier, and the odd anouncement (such as last week's) of births, accomplishments, and introductions. We could use the other list for broader, unofficial discussions of kingdom and society policies, practices, and any other issue which might incite debate and inundate our inboxes with undesired clutter. Just a thought.

                              Cheers,
                              Justin


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Drew Nicholson
                              Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 10:59 AM
                              To: Ayreton@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Ayreton] Use of this list

                              >
                              > The Lord Mayor, Town Crier, and any other administrators of this list are not our babysitters. If we cannot restrain ourselves from frivolous posts and fomenting argument then the failing is ours, neither theirs nor that of the others who make regular, valid announcements. To restrict the list to a select few would prevent a number of viable announcements and any sort of efficiency in communication, particularly when a moderate amount of self control from us would solve the problem.
                              >

                              Having a discussion on a discussion list isn't a lack of self control.
                              It's using the list for it's purpose.

                              If there weren't such a thing as an announcements list, Yahoo wouldn't
                              give us the option.

                              I don't care either way, although I always think that seeking to avoid
                              discussion is wrong.  If we don't have these necessary discussions
                              here, we'll have them elsewhere.



                              ~~~~~

                              To view and add events to the calendar: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/cal/

                              To discontinue receiving discussion, but still receive announcements, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ayreton/join and change your subscription to "Special Notices".  Activities coordinators, to get access to post Special Notices, send a request to < Ayreton-owner@yahoogroups.com>.

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                            • Wolfram von Waldersbach
                              ... Honestly, with the events of the past fortnight on this list, I m in favor of this option. Leaving this open as yet another opportunity for some troll to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                                >1. Close the list to discussion, only allowing announcements, news, births,
                                >deaths, etc. restoring the list to its original intent. Possibly turn
                                >moderating on to enforce this, at least in the beginning. Chatting must be
                                >moved either to local lists or to Frasers-Oak.


                                Honestly, with the events of the past fortnight on this list, I'm in favor
                                of this option. Leaving this open as yet another opportunity for some troll
                                to spout off gets a bit annoying after a while. There are more than enough
                                localized Yahoo groups (TGS, GG, etc.) to handle general discussion,
                                location (shire or province) specific matters, or mindless bitching for the
                                sake of bitching.

                                In Service,

                                -Wolfram von Waldersbach
                                Archery Marshal in Training, from the Shire of the Grey Gargoyles
                                Sursum ad Summum

                                _________________________________________________________________
                                MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John.� Enter to win today.
                                http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline
                              • David Roland
                                I -me personally not my office as cryer - find another path that I think we should follow. I like how Justin put it. Keep this list open to anyone to post
                                Message 15 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                                  I -me personally not my "office" as cryer - find another path that I
                                  think we should follow.

                                  I like how Justin put it. Keep this list open to anyone to post
                                  onto. Excercise self control and keep the posts to a minimum.

                                  We maintain a place where anyone can make announcements in a timely
                                  manner, make ride requests in a timely manner and if they have a
                                  question about something going on and get a timely and likely
                                  accurate response.

                                  Conversation and discussion outside these areas in my opinion - ME
                                  not the Cryer - should be kept to a minimum or taken off list to yes,
                                  Fraser's Oak's, after all the owner of the list has generously
                                  offered it and that IS what it is for OR to personal e-mails as Moira
                                  pointed out.

                                  The purpose of the list is so that we can communicate in a timely
                                  manner to fulfill the informaitonal needs of the various groups and
                                  SCA people in the area we here call Ayreton. This Yahoo! group is
                                  not and was not intended as a forum for conversation de jur.

                                  I believe that if you want to have those electronic conversations
                                  then do so but don't do it on THIS list. Take it to personal e-mails
                                  or the Fraser's Oak's as it has been offered. To me creating another
                                  list for Ayreton conversation and restricting who can post on this
                                  list will create the very communication problems that this list was
                                  created to solve.

                                  To me ANYONE should be able to post to this list. I as the Cryer CAN
                                  NOT and DO NOT respond to announcement requests fast enough to get
                                  things out that perhaps fall into the immediate category. These
                                  would be, "I need a ride to tomorrow's event," "Sorry but X,Y,Z
                                  activity is cancelled TONIGHT!" as well as the plethora of other
                                  possibilities.

                                  It is because of this that I reiterate that I believe that ANYONE
                                  should be able to post to this list, we should, as we did previously,
                                  and as Justin pointed out, excercise self control and keep posts here
                                  to activties, events etc and to questions, comments and help
                                  associated with them. If you wish to have further conversation than
                                  that, as Moira suggested, take it elsewhere.

                                  Ian the Green
                                  giving his personal opinion not the Ayreton Towne Cryer's word on
                                  something... really they are different sometimes.
                                • spdesroches@att.net
                                  Greetings Citizens I thank you all for your time and opinions here. I have been reading all these communications, and have been more or less satisfied that so
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 1, 2008
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                                    Greetings Citizens

                                     

                                         I thank you all for your time and opinions here. I have been reading all these communications, and have been more or less satisfied that so far the rules for the use of this private list are being followed. For those who may have subscribed only lately, those rules include:

                                        That the messages posted be done in a thoughtful, polite manner much as in our Society in whole.

                                        That posts should be kept to a reasonable minimum in length and quantity.

                                        That the list will not be used as a resource for personal attacks here or to acquire private e-mail addresses for objectionable private posts.

                                          We have previously established penalties for the violation of these rules, namely that with the first infraction, as judged by the moderators, will result in the violator receiving a private warning, with the offending content quoted, from the Town Crier. The second violation will result in a similar warning posted publicly here. The third infraction will result in the violator having their posting priviledges here suspended for 90 days from the date of a public notice by the Town Crier. The violator may then be returned to posting status if an apology is received by the Town Crier, agreed to by the moderators, and then published here.

                                         The moderators reserve the right to alter these rules or penalties as circumstances demand on this private list.

                                         Thus said, I would like to bring up a subject suggested at the Town Meeting held in Foxvale last fall, namely that this list be restricted to the posting of notices for area events, meetings and other functions and needs, and that there there be established a seperate discussion group for more politically oriented subjects.  True, it's "just another damn list I've got clogging my bandwidth", but doing so would allow that discussion to continue without interfering with the primary purpose of this list. We had put off using this option last fall, but now may be the time.

                                     

                                    Peace    
                                    Hizzoner

                                  • Andrew Otto
                                    Angus steps out from the Oak and out of persona... You (we) have a forum for this kind of discussion, The Frasers-Oak list. I started this list with my own
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 2, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Angus steps out from the Oak and out of persona...
                                       
                                      You (we) have a forum for this kind of discussion, The Frasers-Oak list. I started this list with my own time and funds to have a place where these kind of discussions could happen, in an open and frank manner.
                                       
                                      I invite you all to come on over and bring this discussion to The Oak and leave the other lists for announcements and news.
                                       
                                      My rules are a little less strict and my be more appropriate for this type of discussion.
                                       
                                      1. No personal attacks. Note that a personal attack is "you are a scum sucking idiot". It is not, "I think you might be trying B.S. us" or "you did something to piss me off"
                                      2. In vino veritas. This is an honesty zone. If you are mad, sad, annoyed, frustrated, suspicious, or otherwise peeved, say it! and oh see point 3
                                      3. This is a tavern. Politeness is highly overrated here. Civility would be nice. Keep it R-rated.
                                      4. Fighting will result in the combatants being asked to neutral corners until they can play nice with each other.
                                      5. Long-winded rambling is allowed, but this sort of thing is it's own punishment -- people will fail to read your tirade.
                                       
                                      Come on by and hoist a pint!
                                       
                                      -*Angus*-

                                      spdesroches@... wrote:
                                      Greetings Citizens
                                       
                                           I thank you all for your time and opinions here. I have been reading all these communications, and have been more or less satisfied that so far the rules for the use of this private list are being followed. For those who may have subscribed only lately, those rules include:
                                          That the messages posted be done in a thoughtful, polite manner much as in our Society in whole.
                                          That posts should be kept to a reasonable minimum in length and quantity.
                                          That the list will not be used as a resource for personal attacks here or to acquire private e-mail addresses for objectionable private posts.
                                            We have previously established penalties for the violation of these rules, namely that with the first infraction, as judged by the moderators, will result in the violator receiving a private warning, with the offending content quoted, from the Town Crier. The second violation will result in a similar warning posted publicly here. The third infraction will result in the violator having their posting priviledges here suspended for 90 days from the date of a public notice by the Town Crier. The violator may then be returned to posting status if an apology is received by the Town Crier, agreed to by the moderators, and then published here.
                                           The moderators reserve the right to alter these rules or penalties as circumstances demand on this private list.
                                           Thus said, I would like to bring up a subject suggested at the Town Meeting held in Foxvale last fall, namely that this list be restricted to the posting of notices for area events, meetings and other functions and needs, and that there there be established a seperate discussion group for more politically oriented subjects.  True, it's "just another damn list I've got clogging my bandwidth", but doing so would allow that discussion to continue without interfering with the primary purpose of this list. We had put off using this option last fall, but now may be the time.
                                       
                                      Peace    
                                      Hizzoner



                                      -*Andy*-


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